Turkey

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Alexis
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Re: Turkey

Post by Alexis »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Zack Morris wrote:This was a just killing. Assassination of public and private leaders is a legitimate response to policies that cause death, suffering, and loss of livelihoods.
Shame on you.
I'd rather have a bit of pity.

Zack Morris' rant was born of anger resulting from swallowing up without critical thinking a totally distorted view of the Aleppo fighting presented by MSM.

In the real world, liberation of 1/3rd of Aleppo which was occupied by Jihadist fighters is obviously a good piece of news.
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Re: Turkey

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Alexis wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Zack Morris wrote:This was a just killing. Assassination of public and private leaders is a legitimate response to policies that cause death, suffering, and loss of livelihoods.
Shame on you.
I'd rather have a bit of pity.

Zack Morris' rant was born of anger resulting from swallowing up without critical thinking a totally distorted view of the Aleppo fighting presented by MSM.

In the real world, liberation of 1/3rd of Aleppo which was occupied by Jihadist fighters is obviously a good piece of news.
It does not take much critical thinking to know that murder is wrong.

And the liberation of Aleppo is indeed a good development.
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Re: Turkey

Post by Zack Morris »

It wasn't murder. It was a heroic assassination.

As for Aleppo's alleged liberation, it looks a lot like the liberation of Warsaw by the Germans.
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Re: Turkey

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Zack Morris wrote:It wasn't murder. It was a heroic assassination.
Five shots in the back is heroic?
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Re: Turkey

Post by Zack Morris »

No less heroic than lobbing a Hellfire missile. Your objections to this are neither rational nor moral.
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Re: Turkey

Post by YMix »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Five shots in the back is heroic?
Shooting an unarmed man in the back is not heroic. Knowing you won't leave the building alive is... not a trivial decision. Not saying the guy is a hero, but still...
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Re: Turkey

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Zack Morris wrote:No less heroic than lobbing a Hellfire missile. Your objections to this are neither rational nor moral.
Don't kill people.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Eat your vegetables. I just threw that one in because momma probably missed it too.
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Re: Turkey

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Zack Morris wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Zack Morris wrote:This was a just killing. Assassination of public and private leaders is a legitimate response to policies that cause death, suffering, and loss of livelihoods.
Shame on you.
Shame on you for cloaking atrocities in the phony legitimacy of the law. There is no due process for victims of war. Therefore, assassinations of leaders and figureheads are legitimate.
Lol tell Obama and and his red lines.

Btw what do you call what happened in Libya and obama's drone program. For starters.
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Re: Turkey

Post by noddy »

the choice between authoritarian dictatorship or islamist psychosis is always a pleasant experience.
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Re: Turkey

Post by YMix »

HAL 10000 wrote:Turkey is beginning to establish a buffer zone in Syria, which is a prelude to expansion into the already disintegrating Arab world. This was only a matter of time. By mid-century, Turkey will probably dominate most of the Sunni Arab world not only economically and politically, but even geographically.
viewtopic.php?p=91867#p91867

In light of recent events in Syria, this post shows that predicting the future is hard.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Re: Turkey

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

YMix wrote:.
HAL 10000 wrote:.

Turkey is beginning to establish a buffer zone in Syria, which is a prelude to expansion into the already disintegrating Arab world. This was only a matter of time. By mid-century, Turkey will probably dominate most of the Sunni Arab world not only economically and politically, but even geographically.

.
viewtopic.php?p=91867#p91867

In light of recent events in Syria, this post shows that predicting the future is hard.

.

"HAL 10000" said he is Turk of Jewish faith

But

2B fair, replace Turkey with Iran in his post, and you have an accurate prediction

Iran pretty much owns now Syria and not Turkey or Russia or US nor Israel

Iran settling Syrian Sunni villages (the sunni inhabitants left to Germany and Canada :lol:) with Shia from Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iraq


.
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Re: Turkey

Post by HAL 10000 »

YMix wrote:
HAL 10000 wrote:Turkey is beginning to establish a buffer zone in Syria, which is a prelude to expansion into the already disintegrating Arab world. This was only a matter of time. By mid-century, Turkey will probably dominate most of the Sunni Arab world not only economically and politically, but even geographically.
viewtopic.php?p=91867#p91867

In light of recent events in Syria, this post shows that predicting the future is hard.
Actually in geopolitics the expression 'only a matter of time' means many decades: Turkey is just recovering from the failed military coup and many qualified officers have been fired and/or imprisoned, and the Turkish military industries are not yet ready to assert power outside the country, but by 2050 this will change.

For one thing, both the EU and the US are supporting Turkey both financially and militarily because of the belief that they can rely on Turkey against the Jihadists, and this will lead to a neo-Ottoman superpower by 2050.

In fact, Turkey already has a military base in Qatar:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06 ... anks-roll/

In a few decades, if and when the Jihadists overthrow the Saudi Monarchy (which is likely) Turkey will almost certainly be favored by the US to step in and gain control of (i.e. invade and rule with an iron fist) the entire Arab world as in the Ottoman Empire. By then Turkey will have the military infrastructure to do that.

Separately , Pakistan ( a Sunni state ) already has at least 100 nukes and it also has the industrial infrastructure to build thousands more. By 2050 it is very likely that Pakistan will share its know-how with Turkey. Iran is far behind Pakistan when it comes to nukes,

For the record, Iran is no match with Turkey when it comes to ruling with an iron fist: in 1914, nearly 30 % of Anatolia was Christian, but now less than 0.1 % is Christian. 2 million Armenians, 800,000 Anatolian Pontic Greeks and 400,000 Assyrian Christians used to reside in Anatolia, but over 95 % of them are no longer there. Only 50,0000 Armenians and 2,000 Greeks remain in Turkey, To my knowledge 99.99 % of the Assyrian Christians are no longer in Turkey. Based on historical weight of the evidence Iran does not have a change against Turkey.

Azeri is bragging about the fact that Iran gained some influence and control in Syria at great cost to its economy, not to mention the fact that Russia also helped Iran. Wait until Turkey steps in and rules the Arab world.
The name HAL is derived from "Heuristically Programmed ALgorithmic Computer." HAL 10000 is the new generation computer destined to become the successor to HAL 9000, as suggested in Arthur C. Clarke's book.
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Re: Turkey

Post by HAL 10000 »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
YMix wrote:.
HAL 10000 wrote:.

Turkey is beginning to establish a buffer zone in Syria, which is a prelude to expansion into the already disintegrating Arab world. This was only a matter of time. By mid-century, Turkey will probably dominate most of the Sunni Arab world not only economically and politically, but even geographically.

.
viewtopic.php?p=91867#p91867

In light of recent events in Syria, this post shows that predicting the future is hard.

.


"HAL 10000" said he is Turk of Jewish faith

But

2B fair, replace Turkey with Iran in his post, and you have an accurate prediction

Iran pretty much owns now Syria and not Turkey or Russia or US nor Israel

Iran settling Syrian Sunni villages (the sunni inhabitants left to Germany and Canada :lol:) with Shia from Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iraq


.
Actually a pure-blooded Spaniard of Jewish faith, born in Turkey. But I now speak Turkish with an American accent.

And so Iran is becoming a 'Zionist' by repopulating an Arab country. Interesting.
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Re: Turkey

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

HAL 10000 wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
YMix wrote:.
HAL 10000 wrote:.

Turkey is beginning to establish a buffer zone in Syria, which is a prelude to expansion into the already disintegrating Arab world. This was only a matter of time. By mid-century, Turkey will probably dominate most of the Sunni Arab world not only economically and politically, but even geographically.

.
viewtopic.php?p=91867#p91867

In light of recent events in Syria, this post shows that predicting the future is hard.

.


"HAL 10000" said he is Turk of Jewish faith

But

2B fair, replace Turkey with Iran in his post, and you have an accurate prediction

Iran pretty much owns now Syria and not Turkey or Russia or US nor Israel

Iran settling Syrian Sunni villages (the sunni inhabitants left to Germany and Canada :lol:) with Shia from Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iraq

.


.

Actually a pure-blooded Spaniard of Jewish faith, born in Turkey. But I now speak Turkish with an American accent.

And so Iran is becoming a 'Zionist' by repopulating an Arab country. Interesting.

.

When Queen Isabella started attack on Spanish Jews, most of them moved to Ottoman empire .. have Chilean Jewish friends originally from Spain who had moved at that time to Macedonia and later to South America.

And

Re Iran Zionist, a slight misunderstadning, HAL 1000 .. Neither Iranians moving to Mesopotamia or Greater Syria nor to Lebanon .. but , the Gas pipeline from Iran (2nd biggest gas reserve in the world) to Europe passes through Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, under Mediterranean to Italy .. for that Iran needs friendly secure passage .. same was wanted by Qatar (for Qatar Gas) and Arabs , but they lost .. Russian, Baku, and probably now Qatar Gas too can use the Iranian Gas pipeline, that is why now suddenly Qatar fell off Arab friendship, now Qatar siding with Iran.

Turkey, Qatar, Iran now cooperating .. Saudi & Sheikhs pretty much f*cked.

.
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Re: Turkey

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HAL 10000 wrote:Actually in geopolitics the expression 'only a matter of time' means many decades: Turkey is just recovering from the failed military coup and many qualified officers have been fired and/or imprisoned, and the Turkish military industries are not yet ready to assert power outside the country, but by 2050 this will change.
Turkey will continue to recover for some time because its internal problems are by no means over. Same goes for its external problems. I assume that "just recovering" thing is your explanation for the Turkish army's dismal performance in northern Syria, as well as Erdogan's inept foreign policy.
For one thing, both the EU and the US are supporting Turkey both financially and militarily because of the belief that they can rely on Turkey against the Jihadists, and this will lead to a neo-Ottoman superpower by 2050.
It remains to be seen whether Turkey will be allowed to become a superpower.
In a few decades, if and when the Jihadists overthrow the Saudi Monarchy (which is likely)
:|
Turkey will almost certainly be favored by the US to step in and gain control of (i.e. invade and rule with an iron fist) the entire Arab world as in the Ottoman Empire.
:lol:

Why would the US (and Israel) allow anyone to unite the Arab world? That would be a remarkably stupid thing to do.
Separately , Pakistan ( a Sunni state ) already has at least 100 nukes and it also has the industrial infrastructure to build thousands more. By 2050 it is very likely that Pakistan will share its know-how with Turkey.
This is so naive it hurts. Any particular reason in this grand geopolitical theater of yours why Pakistan would give Turkey nuclear tech instead of nuking Ankara and assuming leadership of the Arab world? Pakistan gets weapons and cash from China, same as Turkey gets that from the West.
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Re: Turkey

Post by Mr. Perfect »

To be fair any speculation on middle East developments is only good for about 3 weeks.
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Re: Turkey

Post by HAL 10000 »

YMix wrote:
(1) Why would the US (and Israel) allow anyone to unite the Arab world? That would be a remarkably stupid thing to do.
Separately , Pakistan ( a Sunni state ) already has at least 100 nukes and it also has the industrial infrastructure to build thousands more. By 2050 it is very likely that Pakistan will share its know-how with Turkey.
(2) This is so naive it hurts. Any particular reason in this grand geopolitical theater of yours why Pakistan would give Turkey nuclear tech instead of nuking Ankara and assuming leadership of the Arab world? Pakistan gets weapons and cash from China, same as Turkey gets that from the West.
(Emphasis added by HAL 10000 )

1) Actually the erroneous belief from the part of NATO and Israel might be that they can rely on Turkey to control the Arab world, with the false assumption that the centralized net-ottoman rule will be less aggressive than the current Jihadism. Given that NATO and the US don't have the resources to invade )long term) and control the Arab word (it didn't work in Iraq and Afghanistan), they will rely on Turkey.

2) If Pakistan gets a Jihadist Islamic State government, it is possible that they will also try to overthrow the Turkish government as you said, but and equally possible scenario is the partial repetition of history (history never duplicates itself but there are trends to observe): in the past, after the initial expansion of the Arab empire, for nearly a thousand years, whenever the Islamic world became united, it was with the help of the Turks. Militarily the Turks seem to get organized better than any Muslim nation, this includes Pakistan which is very chaotic and diffuse despite their impressive nuclear industry that was helped by China (as a counterweight to India that is a challenge for China). The Turkish president visited Pakistan to establish an alliance, and Turkey is already giving passports to Central Asian Turkic nations like Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, etc. By 2050, if Russia weakens Turkey will united with the Central Asian nations who share surprisingly similar dialects (I can communicate with them despite some grammatical differences and the fact that some words have changed meanings.) The Ottoman rule of the Arab lands was met with resistance and contempt by the Arabs because only religion was shared, not the culture and ancestry. In the case of Central Asian regions, in addition to religion, ethnicity isn also shared,
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Re: Turkey

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HAL 10000 wrote:1) Actually the erroneous belief from the part of NATO and Israel might be that they can rely on Turkey to control the Arab world, with the false assumption that the centralized net-ottoman rule will be less aggressive than the current Jihadism. Given that NATO and the US don't have the resources to invade )long term) and control the Arab word (it didn't work in Iraq and Afghanistan), they will rely on Turkey.
Relying on Turkey to put out some fires was an option promoted by certain people at some point, mainly as a solution to Daesh expansion. Later, the Turkish army managed to sh!t the bed at Al Bab and that was that. Plus, everyone and his dog knows that the Turkish government is in bed with Daesh, which makes it an unreliable partner. So far, the Uniter of the Arab World has managed to seriously piss off the USA and Germany. Diplomatic dangling between Washington and Moscow isn't fooling anyone because Moscow's interests in the region are clear, longstanding and mainly opposed to Turkey's.
2) If Pakistan gets a Jihadist Islamic State government, it is possible that they will also try to overthrow the Turkish government as you said, but and equally possible scenario is the partial repetition of history (history never duplicates itself but there are trends to observe): in the past, after the initial expansion of the Arab empire, for nearly a thousand years, whenever the Islamic world became united, it was with the help of the Turks. Militarily the Turks seem to get organized better than any Muslim nation, this includes Pakistan which is very chaotic and diffuse despite their impressive nuclear industry that was helped by China (as a counterweight to India that is a challenge for China). The Turkish president visited Pakistan to establish an alliance, and Turkey is already giving passports to Central Asian Turkic nations like Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, etc. By 2050, if Russia weakens Turkey will united with the Central Asian nations who share surprisingly similar dialects (I can communicate with them despite some grammatical differences and the fact that some words have changed meanings.) The Ottoman rule of the Arab lands was met with resistance and contempt by the Arabs because only religion was shared, not the culture and ancestry. In the case of Central Asian regions, in addition to religion, ethnicity isn also shared,
If... when... maybe... by 2050.
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Re: Turkey

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Oil losing importance, Arabia losing importance .. issue becoming not controlling Arabs, but getting out of Arabia.

Re Pakistan and Turkey and Iran , related to "nuke", again, mistaken .. having "nuclear bomb" will play no role in geopolitical developments among nations in the future .. USSR had more nukes than US , but collapsed .. Pakistan and India have nukes, AND ? will that prevent India taking over Pakistan ? NO.

What will count in the future, are the # of scientists, scientific pool of a nation, that is the definition of "WEALTH" of the future Nations.

Iran building it's military just to protects Iran so that Iran can ramp up it's potential, and not to conquered Arabia or Asia Minor etc etc .. Iran conquering those place will not be by military means .. Persian empire was not built by force, Satrapies joined voluntary.

Looking in Western universities, research centres, technologies, industries .. how many Pakistani top scientist are there, how many Turkish ? how many head of faculty of US top universities are Pakistani or Turks ? not many .. but many Iranian .. 29 yr old professor of informatic of top European university, ETH .. Algorithm .. that is the power for nations in the future and not how many nuke that nation has.

Military power has become "impotent", military power can only KILL but can not WIN .. that was always like that, Chingiz Khan killed millions but Monguls disappeared, same with Attila .. same now with Israel, Israel military power has not achieved security and peace for Israel, in contrary.

Recapping, Not Turkey, not Pakistan, will be the winner down the road in that space .. but Iran

Iran will unite the Persian Civilizational Space, part of central Asia, KavKaz, Kurdish part of Turkey, Mesopotamia , revitalize that space.

Turks are great "killing machine", but that epoch is past, America killed millions in Vietnam, in Afghanistan, in Iraq .. AND ? all wars lost.

"HAL 10000" has learned the wrong lesson from history, that is the problem of US neocons too, they have not realized world has changed.

.
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Re: Turkey

Post by HAL 10000 »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


Turks are great "killing machine", but that epoch is past, America killed millions in Vietnam, in Afghanistan, in Iraq .. AND ? all wars lost.


.
That's the whole point... The Turks often defeated the Pomegranates in any serious military conflict.


My money is on the Turks.
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Re: Turkey

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

HAL 10000 wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

Turks are great "killing machine", but that epoch is past, America killed millions in Vietnam, in Afghanistan, in Iraq .. AND ? all wars lost.

.

That's the whole point... The Turks often defeated the Pomegranates in any serious military conflict.

My money is on the Turks.

.


:lol: SILLY .. Ottoman–Persian wars .. Pomegranates did not have Canon till Safavid , Ottomans had .. Ottomans were much better armed .. otherwise Pomegranates would have won all the wars.

Reason Persia could match Ottomans (even with inferior arms) was the fact that for 500+ yrs, all rulers of Persia were Turkic tribes .. different Turkic tribes ruled Persia and Ottoman .. same people, but different competing tribes .. Turks in Persia absorbed Persian culture and civilization, became Pomegranates, same as the MONGULS settled in Persia after Tchingiz Khan's death absorbed Persian culture and became Pomegranates , Monguls of India who ruled India until British arrived were Persian Monguls , they spoke, wrote Persian, that you will see when you visit Taj Mahal .. Even the Ottoman Sultans in court Spoke Persian and wrote Persian, I can read what is written top of the entrance of Grand Bazar in Constantinople, present Turks can not (thanks to that durian Kamal Pasha)

Turkey in reality no nation, only 17% of Turkish population is Oghuz Turk .. same idea as Israel. :lol:

.
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Re: Turkey

Post by noddy »

same population but turkey has twice the economy and hasnt managed to isolate itself quite as much.

both have backward, inward looking islamic leadership so its more a case of who loses wealth and relevance faster.
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Re: Turkey

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Gladstone Inst - Turkey's Brain Drain: Why Youths See No Future There

Istanbul today is definitely not Constantinople.
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Re: Turkey

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

Colonel Sun wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:01 pm Gladstone Inst - Turkey's Brain Drain: Why Youths See No Future There

Istanbul today is definitely not Constantinople.
Definitely establishes increasing global secularism is generational, even more than cultural.......

Erdoğan and the clerical class would be wise to follow the example of the PRC and allow a certain amount of 'lifestyle freedom' for Turkey's high tech high achiever elite while she still has them. Unpleasant revelation for the Devout, but without the nonreligious elite, global parity if not dominance of the Islamic estate will not be possible.......
She irons her jeans, she's evil.........
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Re: Turkey

Post by YMix »

HAL 10000 wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:33 pmMilitarily the Turks seem to get organized better than any Muslim nation
Not anymore. The army purge is still ongoing, with thousands arrested or sacked. If only Erdogan had some historical precedent to the north regarding the effect of purges on army quality. If only...
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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