Attacks on US diplomats/embassies.

[Ibrahim]

Going to be an interesting week.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/i ... EI20120912

U.S. ambassador to Libya killed in Benghazi attack

By Tamim Elyan and Omar al-Mosmari

BENGHAZI, Libya (Reuters) - The U.S. ambassador to Libya and three other embassy staff were killed in a rocket attack on their car, a Libyan official said, as they were rushed from a consular building stormed by militants denouncing a U.S.-made film insulting the Prophet Mohammad.

Gunmen had attacked and burned the U.S. consulate in the eastern city of Benghazi, a center of last year's uprising against Muammar Gaddafi, late on Tuesday evening, killing one U.S. consular official. The building was evacuated.

The Libyan official said the ambassador, Christopher Stevens, was being driven from the consulate building to a safer location when gunmen opened fire.

"The American ambassador and three staff members were killed when gunmen fired rockets at them," the official in Benghazi told Reuters.

and

In neighboring Egypt, demonstrators had torn down an American flag and burned it during the protest. Some tried to raise a black flag with the words "There is no God but God, and Mohammad is his messenger", a Reuters witness said.

Reince Priebus already chimed in:

Obama sympathizes with attackers in Egypt. Sad and pathetic.

https://twitter.com/Reince/status/245733811747422208

This man has his priorities in order.

[Ibrahim]

Oh, as these attacks were in two different countries and may be related I started a thread for them rather than using the Egypt or Libya threads. They may prove connected.

[monster_gardener]

Going to be an interesting week.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/i ... EI20120912

U.S. ambassador to Libya killed in Benghazi attack

By Tamim Elyan and Omar al-Mosmari

BENGHAZI, Libya (Reuters) - The U.S. ambassador to Libya and three other embassy staff were killed in a rocket attack on their car, a Libyan official said, as they were rushed from a consular building stormed by militants denouncing a U.S.-made film insulting the Prophet Mohammad.

Gunmen had attacked and burned the U.S. consulate in the eastern city of Benghazi, a center of last year's uprising against Muammar Gaddafi, late on Tuesday evening, killing one U.S. consular official. The building was evacuated.

The Libyan official said the ambassador, Christopher Stevens, was being driven from the consulate building to a safer location when gunmen opened fire.

"The American ambassador and three staff members were killed when gunmen fired rockets at them," the official in Benghazi told Reuters.

and

In neighboring Egypt, demonstrators had torn down an American flag and burned it during the protest. Some tried to raise a black flag with the words "There is no God but God, and Mohammad is his messenger", a Reuters witness said.

Reince Priebus already chimed in:

Obama sympathizes with attackers in Egypt. Sad and pathetic.

https://twitter.com/Reince/status/245733811747422208

This man has his priorities in order.

Thank you for your post, Ibrahim.

This account is a little different......

The link in my previous post in the Libya after GadDaffi Thread, said that the ambassador died of smoke inhalation..........


viewtopic.php?f=10&t=27&p=27985#p27985

Were Hans & Azari were right about the Arab Spring...... Hannity too...

[monster_gardener]

Oh, as these attacks were in two different countries and may be related I started a thread for them rather than using the Egypt or Libya threads. They may prove connected.

Thank you VERY Much for your post, Ibrahim.

You are Correct!.....

Of Course they are connected.........

Many Muslims become Murderous at any slight/insult of Islam, Mohammed etc...........

Satanic Verses, Mohamed Cartoons etc.........

You can do "Piss Christ" Serrano, Elephant Dung Mary etc. and survive........

But don't try it with Islam......

[Zack Morris]

I was reading about the demonstrations in Egypt on some news web site linked at Google News (can't remember which). There was a comment from an Egyptian acknowledging that the filmmaker is an Egyptian but still supporting demonstrations and violence against the US because the film was made there, meaning the US is accountable for not defending the honor of Islam and the Prophet. Interestingly, in the same comment, the commenter asked us to consider how we would feel if someone made films insulting to Christianity or famous American historical figures (never mind that such films are made all the time). Evidently, this person is intelligent enough to understand that the US belongs to a different religious and cultural tradition, but still expects it to adhere to his own society's cultural mores and boundaries. Astonishing!

There is absolutely no understanding of -- let alone respect for -- secularism and the concept of Western-style freedom of expression in much of the world. Every now and then, I'm still surprised when I meet someone who is ostensibly worldly, progressive, and tolerant, but who nevertheless thinks that Westerners have some sort of universal responsibility to behave in a manner compatible with the cultural practices of people on entirely different continents! Criticism of Islam in particular seems to reveal these attitudes pretty quickly. Back in 2008, when the Danish cartoon controversy was still fresh, a very intelligent and globally-minded Turkish friend of mine in Japan was firmly of the opinion that the whole scandal was entirely the Danes' fault because they should have known better than to offend Muslims. In his mind, that was where the responsibility for the unfortunate deaths that resulted lay, not so much at the hands of the killers themselves who were simply behaving as expected.

[Azrael]

The film makers and promoters loaded the gun, Islamic suckers with anger management issues pulled the trigger. The gun-loaders got exactly what they wanted.

[Azrael]

Oh, as these attacks were in two different countries and may be related I started a thread for them rather than using the Egypt or Libya threads. They may prove connected.

Thank you VERY Much for your post, Ibrahim.

You are Correct!.....

Of Course they are connected.........

Many Muslims become Murderous at any slight/insult of Islam, Mohammed etc...........

Satanic Verses, Mohamed Cartoons etc.........

You can do "Piss Christ" Serrano, Elephant Dung Mary etc. and survive........

You can survive at the Brooklyn Museum and its neighborhood. I wouldn't recommend trying it in Russia.

But don't try it with Islam......

You can get away with it in the vast majority of the World that isn't Muslim.

But I agree (if I follow you) that, in the West at least and in particular the U.S., certain religions are afforded far more "cultural sensitivity" than others.

[monster_gardener]

I was reading about the demonstrations in Egypt on some news web site linked at Google News (can't remember which). There was a comment from an Egyptian acknowledging that the filmmaker is an Egyptian but still supporting demonstrations and violence against the US because the film was made there, meaning the US is accountable for not defending the honor of Islam and the Prophet. Interestingly, in the same comment, the commenter asked us to consider how we would feel if someone made films insulting to Christianity or famous American historical figures (never mind that such films are made all the time). Evidently, this person is intelligent enough to understand that the US belongs to a different religious and cultural tradition, but still expects it to adhere to his own society's cultural mores and boundaries. Astonishing!

There is absolutely no understanding of -- let alone respect for -- secularism and the concept of Western-style freedom of expression in much of the world. Every now and then, I'm still surprised when I meet someone who is ostensibly worldly, progressive, and tolerant, but who nevertheless thinks that Westerners have some sort of universal responsibility to behave in a manner compatible with the cultural practices of people on entirely different continents! Criticism of Islam in particular seems to reveal these attitudes pretty quickly. Back in 2008, when the Danish cartoon controversy was still fresh, a very intelligent and globally-minded Turkish friend of mine in Japan was firmly of the opinion that the whole scandal was entirely the Danes' fault because they should have known better than to offend Muslims. In his mind, that was where the responsibility for the unfortunate deaths that resulted lay, not so much at the hands of the killers themselves who were simply behaving as expected.

Thank you VERY Much for your post, Zack Morris.

Seconded..........

However much I may dislike Serrano's "Piss Christ", that does NOT authorize me or other Christians to start hunting Serrano.......

Boycott it, yes........ Boycott its sponsors, yes.......... But no extra-legal violence...... *

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

And IMVHO as distasteful to me as what Serrano did is, it is protected by the Constitution as IMVHO it must be or other true art will be banned....


This Satanic Verses/Mohamed Cartoon/Mohamed Film sparked violence gives us a view of what to expect if, G_d forbid, traditional/Jihadist/non-revisionist Muslims ever gain enough influence in Western Nations to begin enforcing their will....**

IMVHO, Muslims who want to use or condone violence in this manner, do not belong in Western Society.........

And maybe we should not be in Muslim societies, where this meme is the norm...

Quit wasting time, money and lives trying to teach Afghans and other people who prefer Caliph rule, democracy....... ***

If attacked as on 911 or Belsan, Milo Doctrine: Break and Leave....

And try to make sure 911 style infiltrator-saboteurs do not get in..............

Need to do CANDU Nuclear Reactors, conserve, solar power, maybe Solar Power Satellites, maybe even as much as I hate it, Fracking, to get off the Middle East Petroleum teat.... and consequent weapons technology transfer to a basically hostile culture........

And really, it is past time for Western and other more or less sane societies to begin the move to Space........

Too many kooks, especially religious kooks, and too many WMD........

We are living on borrowed time.........


*Note: When posting the link, I noticed that copies of Serrano's work have been vandalized, in one case quite recently (2011), so for the record, I say the vandals should be prosecuted and/or be sued & have to pay damages......

**and that may not be that many........Violence that is not effectively punished, talks VERY loudly....... Sometimes even if it is as seen with the Mafia............

***And remember that Democracy/Democracies/Republics are NOT inherently nice........ Ancient Athens, the Pirates of the Caribbean, Confederate States of America, even Uz......

[Mr. Perfect]

Loving that arab spring

[Mr. Perfect]

Reince Priebus already chimed in:

Obama sympathizes with attackers in Egypt. Sad and pathetic.

https://twitter.com/Reince/status/245733811747422208

This man has his priorities in order.

Yes, in line with American priorities.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Belief in God is not a philosophy or intellectual concept.

The ability to reach down to a sub-intellectual level is a strength.

[monster_gardener]

Oh, as these attacks were in two different countries and may be related I started a thread for them rather than using the Egypt or Libya threads. They may prove connected.

Thank you VERY Much for your post, Ibrahim.

You are Correct!.....

Of Course they are connected.........

Many Muslims become Murderous at any slight/insult of Islam, Mohammed etc...........

Satanic Verses, Mohamed Cartoons etc.........

You can do "Piss Christ" Serrano, Elephant Dung Mary etc. and survive........

You can survive at the Brooklyn Museum and its neighborhood. I wouldn't recommend trying it in Russia.

But don't try it with Islam......

You can get away with it in the vast majority of the World that isn't Muslim.

But I agree (if I follow you) that, in the West at least and in particular the U.S., certain religions are afforded far more "cultural sensitivity" than others.

Thank you VERY Much for your reply, Azrael.

Point to you on Russia & Pussy Riot.......... Although at least Pussy Riot got a trial and jail time rather than a fatwa and assassins......... Still is wrong..........

You can get away with it in the vast majority of the World that isn't Muslim.

Sadly, No........

Remembering the Japanese publisher of the Satanic Verses who was killed by Islamic assassins....

Hitoshi Igarashi (五十嵐 一 Igarashi Hitoshi?, 1947[1]—July 11, 1991) was a Japanese scholar of Arabic and Persian literature and history and the Japanese translator of Salman Rushdie's novel The Satanic Verses. He completed his doctoral programme in Islamic art at the University of Tokyo in 1976, and was research fellow at the Royal Academy of Iran until the Islamic Revolution in 1979. After Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a fatwa calling for the death of "the author of the Satanic Verses book, which is against Islam, the Prophet and the Qur'an, and all those involved in its publication who are aware of its content", he was stabbed to death repeatedly in the face and arms by an unknown assailant on July 11, 1991 in his office at the University of Tsukuba, Ibaraki,[2] where he was an associate professor.

The assailant is suspected of being an Iranian Shiite Muslim who was carrying out the fatwa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitoshi_Igarashi

But I agree (if I follow you) that, in the West at least and in particular the U.S., certain religions are afforded far more "cultural sensitivity" than others.

Yes..... Because there are wild & crazy Muslims who do murder in pursuit of enforcing their will on infidels........

[Mr. Perfect]

I'm all for passing laws forbidding any westerner from ever setting foot in a Muslim country, including diplomats. Close the embassies, come home. Everybody wins.

[Marcus]

. . wild & crazy Muslims . .

A redundancy, mg, especially when it comes to enforcing their opinions on others . . .

[Marcus]

I'm all for passing laws forbidding any westerner from ever setting foot in a Muslim country, including diplomats. Close the embassies, come home. Everybody wins.

All fine and good, but how then would we handle our need for oil? And do those people have the resources, technology, and technical ability to do exploration, development, and continued delivery of oil without Western aid?

[Azrael]

Has anyone else seen this?

http://m.washingtonpost.com/politics/de ... story.html

Supposedly this film cost $5 million to make. Does it look like even $5 thousand made it on the screen? Very fishy. I wouldn't be surprised if the pseudonymous producer really is in hiding -- in hiding from the Feds and/or the investors he scammed.

[Mr. Perfect]

I'm all for passing laws forbidding any westerner from ever setting foot in a Muslim country, including diplomats. Close the embassies, come home. Everybody wins.

All fine and good, but how then would we handle our need for oil? And do those people have the resources, technology, and technical ability to do exploration, development, and continued delivery of oil without Western aid?

There is one way to find out. Sometimes you just need to sink or swim.

[monster_gardener]

I'm all for passing laws forbidding any westerner from ever setting foot in a Muslim country, including diplomats. Close the embassies, come home. Everybody wins.

All fine and good, but how then would we handle our need for oil? And do those people have the resources, technology, and technical ability to do exploration, development, and continued delivery of oil without Western aid?

Thank you VERY Much for your post, Marcus.

It's not going to be fun but.........

Almost all energy options.. especially.....

■ Nuclear especially CANDU style Thorium which AIUI has built in safety factors and can be used to "burn" nuclear waste......

■ Drill offshore without British Yachting Twits and regulators with clientitius......

■ Fracking.... ugh if we have to....... Probably will...........

■ Conservation & recycling, maybe biomass to some degree.............

■ Solar where it is practical......... Recalling that there are peaks on the Moon that are always in Sunlight.......

Remembering Sudan.......Probably the Muslim Oil countries will be able to get what they need from China to supply China with oil though I doubt that the Chinese will put up with problems as much as we have...... Lots of surplus males/soldiers............

[Ibrahim]

The film makers and promoters loaded the gun, Islamic suckers with anger management issues pulled the trigger. The gun-loaders got exactly what they wanted.

It's never about the movie/cartoon/preacher's statement/Gitmo incident. That's always the excuse, but extremist parties don't care about the specific excuse, they would find one anyway and nothing will placate them. If, as is impossible and would/should never happen, the US government censored the film and punished the filmmakers of its own accord, extremist factions would still feel the same way about the US. It's not a rational dispute.

[Typhoon]

I'm all for passing laws forbidding any westerner from ever setting foot in a Muslim country, including diplomats. Close the embassies, come home. Everybody wins.

All fine and good, but how then would we handle our need for oil? And do those people have the resources, technology, and technical ability to do exploration, development, and continued delivery of oil without Western aid?

Looking at where the US currently imports it's crude oil from, it's even more puzzling why the US pays so much attention to the ME.

[Ibrahim]

. . wild & crazy Muslims . .

A redundancy, mg, especially when it comes to enforcing their opinions on others . . .

Not sure what you're trying to say there, Marcus. Flesh that out a bit, why dontcha.

[Ibrahim]

Looking at where the US currently imports it's crude oil from, it's even more puzzling why the US pays so much attention to the ME.

It's almost like certain prominent or influential American citizens stand to profit immensely from American involvement in the region. To to mention the profitability of perpetual warfare.

[Marcus]

. . wild & crazy Muslims . .

A redundancy, mg, especially when it comes to enforcing their opinions on others . . .

Not sure what you're trying to say there, Marcus. Flesh that out a bit, why dontcha.

Well, why dontcha make of it what you will . .

[Ibrahim]

. . wild & crazy Muslims . .

A redundancy, mg, especially when it comes to enforcing their opinions on others . . .

Not sure what you're trying to say there, Marcus. Flesh that out a bit, why dontcha.

Well, why dontcha make of it what you will . .

Brave.

[Marcus]

. . wild & crazy Muslims . .

A redundancy, mg, especially when it comes to enforcing their opinions on others . . .

Not sure what you're trying to say there, Marcus. Flesh that out a bit, why dontcha.

Well, why dontcha make of it what you will . .

Brave.

Brave? Why "brave"? Sounds ominous. Are you accusing me of being afraid of something? What's to be afraid of? Hmmmmmmmmmm . . . ?

Muslims love peace and want to get along, don't they? Muslims don't mind a little criticism, do they?