Turko-Syrian War

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Enki
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Turko-Syrian War

Post by Enki »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19822253
Turkish artillery has fired on targets in Syria after shells from across the border killed five Turkish nationals.

A woman and three children were among the dead when the shells, apparently fired by Syrian government forces, hit Turkey's border town of Akcakale.

Ankara's response marks the first time it has fired into Syria during the 18-month-long unrest there.

Turkey also asked the UN Security Council to take "necessary action" to stop Syrian "aggression".

The request was made by Turkish envoy to the UN, Ertugrul Apakan, in a letter to the current president of the 15-member Council, Guatemalan ambassador Gert Rosenthal.

Meanwhile, Nato envoys held an urgent meeting in Brussels at the request of Turkey, who is a member of the military alliance.

The bloc issued a statement saying it "continues to stand by Turkey and demands the immediate cessation of such aggressive acts against an ally, and urges the Syrian regime to put an end to flagrant violations of international law".

The Nato ambassadors also expressed appreciation for Turkey's restraint in its response, the BBC's defence correspondent Caroline Wyatt reports.

At the same time, the government in Ankara is expected to ask the parliament on Thursday to authorise cross-border military operations in Syria, Turkish media report.
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Ibrahim
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Ibrahim »

It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
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Enki
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Enki »

Ibrahim wrote:It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
Yup, especially since if Turkey takes any kind of pounding at all they get NATO support.
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by planctom »

Ibrahim wrote:It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
Yes, that was my first reaction. It´s a perfect excuse for a foreign intervention in Syria.
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Ibrahim »

Enki wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
Yup, especially since if Turkey takes any kind of pounding at all they get NATO support.
I could see them tapping NATO air assets (AWACS, CnC communications for coordinating air strikes) out of the gate. No actual combat forces from other countries though.
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Don Imus-

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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Jnalum Persicum »

Ibrahim wrote:.
Enki wrote:.
Ibrahim wrote:.

It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
Yup, especially since if Turkey takes any kind of pounding at all they get NATO support.
I could see them tapping NATO air assets (AWACS, CnC communications for coordinating air strikes) out of the gate. No actual combat forces from other countries though.

.
Seems 2me, west pulling a Saddam Hussein on Turkey

Iraq warned Turkey day ago

Russians warned Nato re Syria day ago

Iran has warned Turkey a few times

Nato/Turkey getting involved in Syria, meaning getting involved with Russia and Iran and China

Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey

Nato will think twice getting involved as would mean facing Russia

Americans thinking to integrate Afghanistan into "missile defense system" .. Russia, Pakistan, Iran, China will not let it happen

well


Ibrahim, this a trap .. remember Saddam .. had he not attacked Iran, he would still be around .. and .. remember, there were same people (Saudi and Kuwaiti and Qatari and Brits and Americans) that enticed Saddam to Attack Iran promising money and and and

AND ? he f*cked and lost Mesopotamia to Iran


Be careful


.
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monster_gardener
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Danger and Opportunity.........

Post by monster_gardener »

Jnalum Persicum wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:.
Enki wrote:.
Ibrahim wrote:.

It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
Yup, especially since if Turkey takes any kind of pounding at all they get NATO support.
I could see them tapping NATO air assets (AWACS, CnC communications for coordinating air strikes) out of the gate. No actual combat forces from other countries though.

.
Seems 2me, west pulling a Saddam Hussein on Turkey

Iraq warned Turkey day ago

Russians warned Nato re Syria day ago

Iran has warned Turkey a few times

Nato/Turkey getting involved in Syria, meaning getting involved with Russia and Iran and China

Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey

Nato will think twice getting involved as would mean facing Russia

Americans thinking to integrate Afghanistan into "missile defense system" .. Russia, Pakistan, Iran, China will not let it happen

well


Ibrahim, this a trap .. remember Saddam .. had he not attacked Iran, he would still be around .. and .. remember, there were same people (Saudi and Kuwaiti and Qatari and Brits and Americans) that enticed Saddam to Attack Iran promising money and and and

AND ? he f*cked and lost Mesopotamia to Iran


Be careful


.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.
Be careful
Good Advice but IIRC opportunity can be associated with danger.....

Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey
Would that be a bad thing for Turkey? Lose all those pesky Kurds..... The Blowback from Killing the Armenians........

And maybe gain the Sunni Syrians....... Could be the first step toward a resurgent empire.....

IIRC Hans has said that the Arabs were better off under the Ottomans.......

Situations like this remind me a bit of Thailand where I have wondered it the Buddhists in the north might do well to lose the Beheading Bastard Muslims in south........

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2011/05/0 ... ic-images/

Problem being a victory like that might energize Salafi Slimes generally.....

Likewise in the case of Turkey it might energize Kurds elsewhere (Iran, "Russia" etc.) to go and do likewise BUT that might be to Turkey's advantage.....

AIUI Turkey is a rival of Iran and traditionally has NO love for Russia........

That being said, I still reluctantly favor the status quo....... Lots of people likely to die if any of this happens...... Christians especially.....

For that matter, Mr. Perfect has suggested that Uz lose California to Mexico........
I disagree but.........
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Enki
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Enki »

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/world ... =2&_r=0&hp

Turkey's Parliament gave the green light for escalation.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
Jnalum Persicum

Re: Danger and Opportunity.........

Post by Jnalum Persicum »

monster_gardener wrote:.
Jnalum Persicum wrote:.
Ibrahim wrote:.
Enki wrote:.
Ibrahim wrote:.

It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
Yup, especially since if Turkey takes any kind of pounding at all they get NATO support.
I could see them tapping NATO air assets (AWACS, CnC communications for coordinating air strikes) out of the gate. No actual combat forces from other countries though.

.
Seems 2me, west pulling a Saddam Hussein on Turkey

Iraq warned Turkey day ago

Russians warned Nato re Syria day ago

Iran has warned Turkey a few times

Nato/Turkey getting involved in Syria, meaning getting involved with Russia and Iran and China

Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey

Nato will think twice getting involved as would mean facing Russia

Americans thinking to integrate Afghanistan into "missile defense system" .. Russia, Pakistan, Iran, China will not let it happen

well


Ibrahim, this a trap .. remember Saddam .. had he not attacked Iran, he would still be around .. and .. remember, there were same people (Saudi and Kuwaiti and Qatari and Brits and Americans) that enticed Saddam to Attack Iran promising money and and and

AND ? he f*cked and lost Mesopotamia to Iran


Be careful


.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.
Be careful
Good Advice but IIRC opportunity can be associated with danger.....

Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey
Would that be a bad thing for Turkey? Lose all those pesky Kurds..... The Blowback from Killing the Armenians........

And maybe gain the Sunni Syrians....... Could be the first step toward a resurgent empire.....

IIRC Hans has said that the Arabs were better off under the Ottomans.......

Situations like this remind me a bit of Thailand where I have wondered it the Buddhists in the north might do well to lose the Beheading Bastard Muslims in south........

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2011/05/0 ... ic-images/

Problem being a victory like that might energize Salafi Slimes generally.....

Likewise in the case of Turkey it might energize Kurds elsewhere (Iran, "Russia" etc.) to go and do likewise BUT that might be to Turkey's advantage.....

AIUI Turkey is a rival of Iran and traditionally has NO love for Russia........

That being said, I still reluctantly favor the status quo....... Lots of people likely to die if any of this happens...... Christians especially.....

For that matter, Mr. Perfect has suggested that Uz lose California to Mexico........
I disagree but........

.

Monster , you making huuuuge mistakes,

If Kurds exit Turkey, and somehow Turkey joins with part of Syria, if so, Turkey could become a "majority" Shia , Alawi + Alevi

.
The Alawis, also known as Alawites, Nusayris and Ansaris (‘Alawīyyah (Arabic: علوية‎), Nuṣayrī (Arabic: نصيريون‎), and al-Anṣāriyyah) are a prominent mystical religious group centred in Syria who follow a branch of the Twelver school of Shia Islam.
.

FYI, Twelver school of Shia Islam, is Shia Safavi, Iranian Shia

.

Aleviness developed out of Shi'a Islam.

The Turkic tribes of northern Iran and eastern Anatolia were converted to Shī‘ism during the Ilkhan Mongol period.

The Qizilbash emerged from this milieu as a militant Sufi order centered in Ardabil whose leader Shah Ismā‘il succeeded in conquering Persia.

.

Ghizilbash and Shahsavan are Persian and also most of present (Turkish) Turkey


.

Qizilbash or Kizilbash (Nastaliq: قزلباش - Qızılbāš; Ottoman Turkish for "Crimson/Red Heads"; sometimes also Qezelbash or Qazilbash) is the label given to a wide variety of Shī‘ī Islamic militant groups (ghulāt) that flourished in Anatolia and Kurdistan from the late 13th century onwards, some of which contributed to the foundation of the Safavid dynasty of Iran.

.


Well ,

Am not sure you know what you getting into .. this could be "mother of all unintended consequences"

look, Monster

what could happen is , like you were thinking Iraqi will welcome you with sweet and flower, instead, the Iraqi welcomed the Iranians with sweet and flower and escorted you out

meaning

Those "Shia 12 Emami" Turks will shake hand with their brothers Pomegranates and and and

That has happened many many many times .. pretty much always WITHOUT EXCEPTION

Pretty much all Turks became PASSIONATE Pomegranates .. Without Turkic Persian Dynasties and Kings, Iran would not exist today, they made present Iran .. pretty much all Persian dynasties of last 800 yrs, were Turks

so

what can and most probably will happen, is

Iran will take them all in .. including the MEDS (Kurds)

you basically helping creating "Greater Persia"

And

don't think anybody talking Turkish is Turk .. Azari , Arran, Shirvan, Kurds, Talesh they Aryan and spoke Pahlavi-Persian .. Saljugh turned their language to Persian-Turkish dialect

As said many times, America and west should leave that era , you guys don't understand that space .. any Iranian would have told you what would happen in Iraq .. even kids on the street would have said you the outcome .. this whole thing cultural, civilization .. 1000+ yrs old



NYT : As Syria War Roils, Unrest Among Sects Hits Turkey


.

“We’re all with Assad,” he said.

Not far away in the Alawite-dominated town of Harbiye, there is a new best-selling item that cannot seem to stay on the shelves: cheap tapestries bearing Mr. Assad’s portrait.

“Everybody wants them,” said Selahattin Eroglu, a vendor, who had just sold his last one. “People here love Assad.”

.


:lol: :lol:

Told you Ibrahim, this a trap .. Kamal Pasha turning in his grave .. "soft Islam" rubbish .. the Generals neutralized by western agent on pretext of democracy :lol: .. Turkey in mortal danger


.
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monster_gardener
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Awe Inspiring Acts

Post by monster_gardener »

Jnalum Persicum wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:.
Jnalum Persicum wrote:.
Ibrahim wrote:.
Enki wrote:.
Ibrahim wrote:.

It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
Yup, especially since if Turkey takes any kind of pounding at all they get NATO support.
I could see them tapping NATO air assets (AWACS, CnC communications for coordinating air strikes) out of the gate. No actual combat forces from other countries though.

.
Seems 2me, west pulling a Saddam Hussein on Turkey

Iraq warned Turkey day ago

Russians warned Nato re Syria day ago

Iran has warned Turkey a few times

Nato/Turkey getting involved in Syria, meaning getting involved with Russia and Iran and China

Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey

Nato will think twice getting involved as would mean facing Russia

Americans thinking to integrate Afghanistan into "missile defense system" .. Russia, Pakistan, Iran, China will not let it happen

well


Ibrahim, this a trap .. remember Saddam .. had he not attacked Iran, he would still be around .. and .. remember, there were same people (Saudi and Kuwaiti and Qatari and Brits and Americans) that enticed Saddam to Attack Iran promising money and and and

AND ? he f*cked and lost Mesopotamia to Iran


Be careful


.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.
Be careful
Good Advice but IIRC opportunity can be associated with danger.....

Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey
Would that be a bad thing for Turkey? Lose all those pesky Kurds..... The Blowback from Killing the Armenians........

And maybe gain the Sunni Syrians....... Could be the first step toward a resurgent empire.....

IIRC Hans has said that the Arabs were better off under the Ottomans.......

Situations like this remind me a bit of Thailand where I have wondered it the Buddhists in the north might do well to lose the Beheading Bastard Muslims in south........

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2011/05/0 ... ic-images/

Problem being a victory like that might energize Salafi Slimes generally.....

Likewise in the case of Turkey it might energize Kurds elsewhere (Iran, "Russia" etc.) to go and do likewise BUT that might be to Turkey's advantage.....

AIUI Turkey is a rival of Iran and traditionally has NO love for Russia........

That being said, I still reluctantly favor the status quo....... Lots of people likely to die if any of this happens...... Christians especially.....

For that matter, Mr. Perfect has suggested that Uz lose California to Mexico........
I disagree but........

.

Monster , you making huuuuge mistakes,

If Kurds exit Turkey, and somehow Turkey joins with part of Syria, if so, Turkey could become a "majority" Shia , Alawi + Alevi

.
The Alawis, also known as Alawites, Nusayris and Ansaris (‘Alawīyyah (Arabic: علوية‎), Nuṣayrī (Arabic: نصيريون‎), and al-Anṣāriyyah) are a prominent mystical religious group centred in Syria who follow a branch of the Twelver school of Shia Islam.
.

FYI, Twelver school of Shia Islam, is Shia Safavi, Iranian Shia

.

Aleviness developed out of Shi'a Islam.

The Turkic tribes of northern Iran and eastern Anatolia were converted to Shī‘ism during the Ilkhan Mongol period.

The Qizilbash emerged from this milieu as a militant Sufi order centered in Ardabil whose leader Shah Ismā‘il succeeded in conquering Persia.

.

Ghizilbash and Shahsavan are Persian and also most of present (Turkish) Turkey


.

Qizilbash or Kizilbash (Nastaliq: قزلباش - Qızılbāš; Ottoman Turkish for "Crimson/Red Heads"; sometimes also Qezelbash or Qazilbash) is the label given to a wide variety of Shī‘ī Islamic militant groups (ghulāt) that flourished in Anatolia and Kurdistan from the late 13th century onwards, some of which contributed to the foundation of the Safavid dynasty of Iran.

.


Well ,

Am not sure you know what you getting into .. this could be "mother of all unintended consequences"

look, Monster

what could happen is , like you were thinking Iraqi will welcome you with sweet and flower, instead, the Iraqi welcomed the Iranians with sweet and flower and escorted you out

meaning

Those "Shia 12 Emami" Turks will shake hand with their brothers Pomegranates and and and

That has happened many many many times .. pretty much always WITHOUT EXCEPTION

Pretty much all Turks became PASSIONATE Pomegranates .. Without Turkic Persian Dynasties and Kings, Iran would not exist today, they made present Iran .. pretty much all Persian dynasties of last 800 yrs, were Turks

so

what can and most probably will happen, is

Iran will take them all in .. including the MEDS (Kurds)

you basically helping creating "Greater Persia"

And

don't think anybody talking Turkish is Turk .. Azari , Arran, Shirvan, Kurds, Talesh they Aryan and spoke Pahlavi-Persian .. Saljugh turned their language to Persian-Turkish dialect

As said many times, America and west should leave that era , you guys don't understand that space .. any Iranian would have told you what would happen in Iraq .. even kids on the street would have said you the outcome .. this whole thing cultural, civilization .. 1000+ yrs old



NYT : As Syria War Roils, Unrest Among Sects Hits Turkey


.

“We’re all with Assad,” he said.

Not far away in the Alawite-dominated town of Harbiye, there is a new best-selling item that cannot seem to stay on the shelves: cheap tapestries bearing Mr. Assad’s portrait.

“Everybody wants them,” said Selahattin Eroglu, a vendor, who had just sold his last one. “People here love Assad.”

.


:lol: :lol:

Told you Ibrahim, this a trap .. Kamal Pasha turning in his grave .. "soft Islam" rubbish .. the Generals neutralized by western agent on pretext of democracy :lol: .. Turkey in mortal danger


.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.

With all due respect, I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm expecting likely Death and Destruction... :shock: :o :evil:

Again, my reluctant vote is for the status quo and Assad because he has been a protector of the Christians and other minorities. :)

And despite the fact that he is the Tool of Iran against Israel. :x

And because when you stir a geographic pot in the Middle East, you never know for sure what sort of Evil Efreets :twisted: oops I mean Effects ;) may result..........

Just that likely it may/will be worse than what you have already.....

The Arabs found that out in spades when they invaded the UN Partition in 1948..........

What I was remembering is a map IIRC somewhere in the Syria Thread that show the religous/ethnic boundaries in Syria.........

And at least on paper, the Sunnis dominate.......

Googled some links that show similar maps below. Maybe better as they shows more detail.

Image

Image

Image

Text link indicates that the Sunnis may not be as dominant as the map indicates

And Turkey might decide not to take it all...... Maybe the Alawites and Christians would end up with a rump :wink: state near the coast under ASSad with Russian protection......

While instead of letting the Kurds go, the Turks get an opportunity do what they did with Armenians..... :shock: :o :shock:

But again opportunity and risk depending on what "Awe Inspiring" :twisted: acts you are willing to do and recent history shows that like Russian Tsar Ivan IV, the Turks can be quite "Awe Inspiring" :evil:

http://www.education.com/study-help/art ... -terrible/

NOTE: More Maps........ & link

Image

Image

http://www.fragilestates.org/2012/02/20 ... s-divides/

http://www.fragilestates.org/2012/02/20 ... s-divides/

"DAMN!" "ASS!" "CUSS!" The situation in Syria is enough to make a preacher in Damascus ;) swear! ;) :lol: :(
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Ibrahim
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Ibrahim »

Enki wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/world ... =2&_r=0&hp

Turkey's Parliament gave the green light for escalation.
Since this was a renewal/expansion of the anti-PKK law form some years ago, it actually gives the Turkish government carte blanche to do pretty much anything in Syria. It doesn't mean that they will exploit that mandate to the limit. It all rests with Erdogan right now.
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Enki
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Enki »

Ibrahim wrote:
Enki wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/world ... =2&_r=0&hp

Turkey's Parliament gave the green light for escalation.
Since this was a renewal/expansion of the anti-PKK law form some years ago, it actually gives the Turkish government carte blanche to do pretty much anything in Syria. It doesn't mean that they will exploit that mandate to the limit. It all rests with Erdogan right now.
Well this is how wars go. It's small little incursions back and forth, less restraint on both sides until its full blown.
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Azrael »

Ibrahim wrote:It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels.
That's what I was thinking. I think that it probably was a false-flag operation.
In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
Yeah. It would probably be over within two months.
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Azrael
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Azrael »

Enki wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Enki wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/world ... =2&_r=0&hp

Turkey's Parliament gave the green light for escalation.
Since this was a renewal/expansion of the anti-PKK law form some years ago, it actually gives the Turkish government carte blanche to do pretty much anything in Syria. It doesn't mean that they will exploit that mandate to the limit. It all rests with Erdogan right now.
Well this is how wars go. It's small little incursions back and forth, less restraint on both sides until its full blown.
And once the Turkish Army is doing heavy fighting deep in Syria, the Israelis might think that gives them cover to attack Iran.
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Enki
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Enki »

I think Azari's point about how destabilization helps Iran due to the demographic/geographic spread of the Shia populations.
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Ibrahim
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Ibrahim »

Azrael wrote:
Enki wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Enki wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/world ... =2&_r=0&hp

Turkey's Parliament gave the green light for escalation.
Since this was a renewal/expansion of the anti-PKK law form some years ago, it actually gives the Turkish government carte blanche to do pretty much anything in Syria. It doesn't mean that they will exploit that mandate to the limit. It all rests with Erdogan right now.
Well this is how wars go. It's small little incursions back and forth, less restraint on both sides until its full blown.
And once the Turkish Army is doing heavy fighting deep in Syria, the Israelis might think that gives them cover to attack Iran.
I doubt Turkey will engage in major ground operations, nor do I think it would be particularly good for anyone if they did. Air power, heavy artillery support, and perhaps some special forces will be the order of the day. The Libyan campaign will be the NATO model going forward in dealing with civil wars against obviously unpopular dictators.

I don't know how it benefits Israeli intentions towards Iran, though I would think the distraction is bad for Bibi's PR offensive.

Enki wrote:I think Azari's point about how destabilization helps Iran due to the demographic/geographic spread of the Shia populations.
I think the status quo antebellum was preferable for Iran, because it allowed them to funnel arms through friendly Syria to their Hezbollah allies/strategic depth in Lebanon. Now that axis has been disrupted, and Tehran is forced to back the losing horse in Syria. The specifics of this particular chaos don't work in their favor, unlike Iraq where they worked almost entirely in Iran's favor.
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Enki »

New Empires arise from the ashes of podunk backwaters in situations just like these.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Hans Bulvai »

Turkey's venturing into Syria would not be a cake walk.
Actually, pretty clever of Asad to try and pull Turkey into the conflict.
Turkey has much more to lose that Asad. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Any intervention in Syria will bleed Turkey and reverse the gains from years past.
What I think is funny is Mr. Erdogan for the last year telling us that Asad's days are numbered and here is Asad now killing Turkish civilians.

And to be fair, from a military standpoint, Turkey is a legitimate target for Syria since it is the face of support for the rebels.

The Turkish leadership is not stupid and will not get drawn into this conflict; yet. But it is an embarrassment to the Erdogan government.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ndate.html
Thousands protest in Turkey over Syria mandate
Protesters take to the streets in Ankara and Istanbul after Turkey's parliament approved military operations against targets in Syria following the deaths of five Turkish citizens from Syrian shelling.
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Ibrahim »

Hans Bulvai wrote:Turkey's venturing into Syria would not be a cake walk.
Actually, pretty clever of Asad to try and pull Turkey into the conflict.
Turkey has much more to lose that Asad.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:






What I think is funny is Mr. Erdogan for the last year telling us that Asad's days are numbered and here is Asad now killing Turkish civilians.
Sure, "funny." Maybe Assad got bored of killing thousands and thousands of his own civilians and wanted to mix it up.

I'll make you a bet right now: Erdogan will be alive long after Assad is executed.


And to be fair, from a military standpoint, Turkey is a legitimate target for Syria since it is the face of support for the rebels.
Yes, Turkey prevents Assad from killing as many Syrian civilians as he would like. If that's not a casus belli then what is?

The Turkish leadership is not stupid and will not get drawn into this conflict; yet. But it is an embarrassment to the Erdogan government.
That's the main reason not to let a foreign dictator and mass-murderer shell your citizens, to avoid embarrassment.
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Hans Bulvai »

So why are all these people protesting the resolution?
I don't buy supremacy
Media chief
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The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Hans Bulvai »

Turkey has much more to lose than Asad.
:|
I don't buy supremacy
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Hans Bulvai »

Ibrahim wrote: I'll make you a bet right now: Erdogan will be alive long after Assad is executed.
Tempting but what is long?

But alas, I am not a betting man.
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Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Mr. Perfect »

I love the Milo Doctrine.
Censorship isn't necessary
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Jnalum Persicum »

Enki wrote:.

I think Azari's point about how destabilization helps Iran due to the demographic/geographic spread of the Shia populations.

.

Chaos in that space will awaken historical misalignment caused by powers of 1700-1950 .. The Ottomans, the Tzarist Russia, the Imperial British empire

Those misalignment, pretty much always, ended up being paid by Pomegranates

Tzarist Russian took most Persian heartland in central Asia, Stalin tried to wipe out Iranian civilization (language, culture, people) by creating artificial nations carved out of same people

Ottomans AND Russians took Iranian 5000 yrs old Caucasus, creating and naming new countries and nations .. Arran & Shirvan became Azerbaijan and and and

Brits in Afghanistan, Baluchistan, Bahrain, Mesopotamia usurped and renamed Persian provinces and people

These are artificial creations .. people of those places know - no power in the world can stop those realignment forces, imagine a political earth-quick with 9 on Richter scale

All will revert to natural equilibrium - mother of all people's power

You looking @ FEDERATION OF PERSIAN NATIONS

that could include part of present Turkey, most Caucasus (up to and including Daghestan) , most central Asia, Afghanistan, part of Mesopotamia, Bahrain and few others


Europe (and America) would not be against such outcome, as a "Greater Persia" would be a force against Russia - same idea Brits used Persia as buffer against Russian danger against British Indian empire @ Victoria time



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