Turko-Syrian War

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Enki
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Enki »

Ibrahim wrote:
Enki wrote:The USA should just withdraw unilaterally from the middle-east and central Asia. Let the post collapse governments know we are always interested in trade.
How does this relate to the current situation in Syria or conflict looming between Syria and Turkey?

You know if Turkey invades Syria we will get enmeshed.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
Mr. Perfect
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Mr. Perfect »

I love the Milo Doctrine.
Censorship isn't necessary
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Endovelico
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Endovelico »

Ibrahim wrote:So you shouldn't shell people for shelling your territory, but its ok to shoot down planes for for accidentally entering your airspace? Decide whether you're a dove or a hawk, man.
Accidentally entering Syrian airspace?... ACCIDENTALLY?!... :shock:
Jnalum Persicum

Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Jnalum Persicum »

Enki wrote:.

The USA should just withdraw unilaterally from the middle-east and central Asia. Let the post collapse governments know we are always interested in trade.

.

That is the wisest thing to do

That space needs trade and capital and know-how and technology and and and

All that has to come from West

Am sure West and China and Japan will group for development of that space

military involvement and artificially siding with one faction against the others will lead to nothing

That space is not Amazon or African Jungle .. that space is high civilization .. will take care of itself and become a positive contributor to human civilization

Best would be for west to :

Move out of that space, cut any arms delivery to that space (Turkey, Arab cronies, Paki, etc etc) .. step back and watch things unfold

yes, the higher culture & civilization & knowledge will prevail .. the way it should (and will) be


.
Mr. Perfect
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Enki wrote:The USA should just withdraw unilaterally from the middle-east and central Asia. Let the post collapse governments know we are always interested in trade.
You will never follow through on this, just like Obama, you will get punch drunk on the glory of conquest and when they lay the right trap for you you'll chomp down full force.

The left has demonstrated they will never follow through on this now.
Censorship isn't necessary
Jnalum Persicum

Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Jnalum Persicum »

Mr. Perfect wrote:.
Enki wrote:.

The USA should just withdraw unilaterally from the middle-east and central Asia. Let the post collapse governments know we are always interested in trade.
You will never follow through on this, just like Obama, you will get punch drunk on the glory of conquest and when they lay the right trap for you you'll chomp down full force.

The left has demonstrated they will never follow through on this now.

.

Come on, Mr. Perfect, come on

Barak Hussein got the message

but

Romney wouldn't let go

Romney wants to double down on W.Bush's foreign policy


NYT : How Mr. Romney Would Force-Feed the Pentagon


CBS : He believes President Obama has not been a strong enough ally of Israel or a strong enough opponent of Iran. He thinks the U.S. government should get involved in arming Syrian rebels. He believes that U.S. aid to Egypt should be tied to promises from that nation's leaders, including to protect Coptic Christians and respect a peace treaty with Israel. He wants to potentially dramatically increase Pentagon funding by spending at least 4 percent of gross domestic product on defense. He wants to build more naval ships and submarines. And he thinks Mr. Obama has been too willing to apologize for America on the world stage.


Guardian : Middle East analysts dismiss many of the Republican candidate's suggested foreign policy changes as 'cosmetic'


Look, Dems and Reps foreign policy same .. did Johnson and Nixon had different Vietnam policy ?

No

All those woman and children killed in Laos and Cambodia by Nixon (and Kissinger) carpet bombing with B-52 , was not much better of Johnson killing all those Vietnamese woman and children

same story


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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Mr. Perfect »

True Azari, Romney is war like, true. However he's just honest, Barak Hussein, he takes Nobel Peace prize then releases the drones, NYT & TInker applaud (10,000 ninjas).

Romney, he's going to decimate, attack, destroy, but at least you get a heads up. None of this bait and switch Obama style.
Censorship isn't necessary
Jnalum Persicum

Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Jnalum Persicum »

Mr. Perfect wrote:.

True Azari, Romney is war like, true. However he's just honest, Barak Hussein, he takes Nobel Peace prize then releases the drones, NYT & TInker applaud (10,000 ninjas).

Romney, he's going to decimate, attack, destroy, but at least you get a heads up. None of this bait and switch Obama style.

.

Can't argue

Have to admit, you have a valid case .. that Hillery really slimy, fake


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Jnalum Persicum

Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Jnalum Persicum »

.


Look, folks


Nato says : NATO : We will defend Turkey from Syria if necessary

and

Russians say they will defend Syria

well , folks

what you make out of it ? ?

doesn't look good , not at all



.
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monster_gardener
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Location: Trolla. Land of upside down trees and tomatos........

Somali Pizza Run, Balkan Fiasco, Withdrawing to Moon

Post by monster_gardener »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Enki wrote:The USA should just withdraw unilaterally from the middle-east and central Asia. Let the post collapse governments know we are always interested in trade.
You will never follow through on this, just like Obama, you will get punch drunk on the glory of conquest and when they lay the right trap for you you'll chomp down full force.

The left has demonstrated they will never follow through on this now.
Thank you VERY Much for your post, Mr. Perfect.
when they lay the right trap for you you'll chomp down full force.
Almost certainly true........ Remembering the Somalia Pizza Run that resulted in Black Hawk Down.......

And not just the ME........ Remembering the Balkan Fiasco in what used to be Yugoslavia under ClinToon which almost got Uz into wars with Russia and China..... :shock: to save Muslims........

And even if we do withdraw, the traditional/Jihadi Muslims will not leave us/Uz alone..... There is still that command to conquer the world for Allah the Moon God ;) by any means necessary..... Bullets, Ballots, Bribes, Birth rate etc.....

We would need to withdraw to the Moon ;) or further to get away from Looney ;) Sunnis etc.......

And probably that wouldn't work unless we engaged in high K.E. Lapidation :twisted: against Looneys who tried to follow us there.......
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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noddy
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by noddy »

Jnalum Persicum wrote:.


Look, folks


Nato says : NATO : We will defend Turkey from Syria if necessary

and

Russians say they will defend Syria

well , folks

what you make out of it ? ?

doesn't look good , not at all



.
you would think that russia going to war with europe and america over syria is highly unlikely, granted we live in crazy times.

the odd thing is why would syria be stupid enough to provoke turkey.
ultracrepidarian
Jnalum Persicum

Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Jnalum Persicum »

noddy wrote:
Jnalum Persicum wrote:.


Look, folks


Nato says : NATO : We will defend Turkey from Syria if necessary

and

Russians say they will defend Syria

well , folks

what you make out of it ? ?

doesn't look good , not at all



.
you would think that russia going to war with europe and america over syria is highly unlikely, granted we live in crazy times.

the odd thing is why would syria be stupid enough to provoke turkey.

.


Russia could hit west somewhere else where it would hurt west as much or more

One thing for sure .. all this no good for Turkey .. Turkey should have kept out of this .. but
seems Erdogan sinking more and more in that bee's nest



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Ibrahim
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Ibrahim »

Endovelico wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:So you shouldn't shell people for shelling your territory, but its ok to shoot down planes for for accidentally entering your airspace? Decide whether you're a dove or a hawk, man.
Accidentally entering Syrian airspace?... ACCIDENTALLY?!... :shock:
Accidentally shelling a Turkish village?... ACCIDENTALLY?!... :shock:
Last edited by Ibrahim on Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ibrahim
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Ibrahim »

Enki wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Enki wrote:The USA should just withdraw unilaterally from the middle-east and central Asia. Let the post collapse governments know we are always interested in trade.
How does this relate to the current situation in Syria or conflict looming between Syria and Turkey?

You know if Turkey invades Syria we will get enmeshed.
That's what the NATO charter says, and you are already enmeshed in terms of support. I doesn't mean that the US would have to deploy direct military assets. To refuse to do anything would be repudiating NATO entirely, which is something that some people may approve of, but on balance NATO benefits the US more than its a hindrance.
Milo
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Milo »

Enki wrote:The USA should just withdraw unilaterally from the middle-east and central Asia. Let the post collapse governments know we are always interested in trade.
Another convert!
Jnalum Persicum

Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Jnalum Persicum »

Milo wrote:.
Enki wrote:.

The USA should just withdraw unilaterally from the middle-east and central Asia. Let the post collapse governments know we are always interested in trade.
Another convert !

.

Yes, another convert

question, who converting them

Ahmadinejat

Ahmadinejat making clear to "wise guys", those old good days gone, gone for ever

Eggheads, Bolton & company, still thinking sheep the sheep used 2B

neither sheep the sheep used 2B, nor wolf the wolf used 2B


.
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Enki
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Enki »

Milo wrote:
Enki wrote:The USA should just withdraw unilaterally from the middle-east and central Asia. Let the post collapse governments know we are always interested in trade.
Another convert!
I was all about the Milo doctrine back when you first proposed it. Hell, I was saying this more than a decade ago.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
Ibrahim
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Ibrahim »

Enki wrote:
Milo wrote:
Enki wrote:The USA should just withdraw unilaterally from the middle-east and central Asia. Let the post collapse governments know we are always interested in trade.
Another convert!
I was all about the Milo doctrine back when you first proposed it. Hell, I was saying this more than a decade ago.
I'm pretty sure it was a popular bumper sticker on VW buses in the 1960's. "U.S. out of EVERYWHERE" For most of my lifetime it was the Pat Buchanan doctrine, now some Robert Spencer rube is claiming it. Tibet was trying it in the late 19th century, Japan from the 17th century to the 1860's. The idea of isolationism gets around!
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Parodite
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Parodite »

So as far as the Milo doctrine goes we will just be watching on tv the thousands of women and children being chopped to pieces by the various crackdown dickators, ethno-religious fanatics rising up or down at each others throat, a regional war perhaps with juicy big rockets .... being oh so happy we got ourselves out of that bloody mess? Sorry for sounding preachy, but it won't be a good anti-depressant either.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Enki
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Enki »

Ibrahim wrote:
Enki wrote:
Milo wrote:
Enki wrote:The USA should just withdraw unilaterally from the middle-east and central Asia. Let the post collapse governments know we are always interested in trade.
Another convert!
I was all about the Milo doctrine back when you first proposed it. Hell, I was saying this more than a decade ago.
I'm pretty sure it was a popular bumper sticker on VW buses in the 1960's. "U.S. out of EVERYWHERE" For most of my lifetime it was the Pat Buchanan doctrine, now some Robert Spencer rube is claiming it. Tibet was trying it in the late 19th century, Japan from the 17th century to the 1860's. The idea of isolationism gets around!
Not talking about isolationism. Trade with others is cool. I am all about having embassies everywhere around the world. I would just like to see a softer foreign policy, and by that I don't mean 'soft power' which is really hard power where you don't call it a war.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
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Enki
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Enki »

Parodite wrote:So as far as the Milo doctrine goes we will just be watching on tv the thousands of women and children being chopped to pieces by the various crackdown dickators, ethno-religious fanatics rising up or down at each others throat, a regional war perhaps with juicy big rockets .... being oh so happy we got ourselves out of that bloody mess? Sorry for sounding preachy, but it won't be a good anti-depressant either.
Better than watching as my country uses my tax dollars to blow those people to bits at the same time as people are being chopped to pieces by the various dictators, religious fanatics and such.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
Ibrahim
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Ibrahim »

Rhapsody wrote:So as far as the Milo doctrine goes we will just be watching on tv the thousands of women and children being chopped to pieces by the various crackdown dickators, ethno-religious fanatics rising up or down at each others throat,
Yeah, but less killed by the US military, so that's somethin'. Plus it would cut off a source of direct financial aid for some of the dictators and regimes, which by the way is why isolationism, or even disengagement from the Middle East, will never, ever happen. It's politically impossible for the US to stop sending money to Israel, their #1 recipient of foreign aid.


But let's not forget the Milo's added spin on the basic concept of isolationism, which he is really repeating second-hand from his Breivik breviary: the animals of the Middle East should be left alone to butcher one another without infecting the rest of the civilized world (wedding drone strikes, corpse-pissing, torture, and other US indiscretions notwithstanding). So watching people suffer and die is the payoff for him. It's not a downside.
Ibrahim
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Ibrahim »

Enki wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Enki wrote:
Milo wrote:
Enki wrote:The USA should just withdraw unilaterally from the middle-east and central Asia. Let the post collapse governments know we are always interested in trade.
Another convert!
I was all about the Milo doctrine back when you first proposed it. Hell, I was saying this more than a decade ago.
I'm pretty sure it was a popular bumper sticker on VW buses in the 1960's. "U.S. out of EVERYWHERE" For most of my lifetime it was the Pat Buchanan doctrine, now some Robert Spencer rube is claiming it. Tibet was trying it in the late 19th century, Japan from the 17th century to the 1860's. The idea of isolationism gets around!
Not talking about isolationism. Trade with others is cool. I am all about having embassies everywhere around the world. I would just like to see a softer foreign policy, and by that I don't mean 'soft power' which is really hard power where you don't call it a war.
I think trade without any foreign security presence would be even more difficult for the US than pure isolationism. That said, I don't think either option is practically possible, though certain desirable in many ways.
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Parodite
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Parodite »

Enki wrote:
Parodite wrote:So as far as the Milo doctrine goes we will just be watching on tv the thousands of women and children being chopped to pieces by the various crackdown dickators, ethno-religious fanatics rising up or down at each others throat, a regional war perhaps with juicy big rockets .... being oh so happy we got ourselves out of that bloody mess? Sorry for sounding preachy, but it won't be a good anti-depressant either.
Better than watching as my country uses my tax dollars to blow those people to bits at the same time as people are being chopped to pieces by the various dictators, religious fanatics and such.
Maybe nice for you, but not helping the victims there. And it is quite possible the death toll rises sharply when the region starts to fall apart, with the West and their local dicktators losing grip and the lids going off.
Deep down I'm very superficial
Milo
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Re: Turko-Syrian War

Post by Milo »

Parodite wrote:
Enki wrote:
Parodite wrote:So as far as the Milo doctrine goes we will just be watching on tv the thousands of women and children being chopped to pieces by the various crackdown dickators, ethno-religious fanatics rising up or down at each others throat, a regional war perhaps with juicy big rockets .... being oh so happy we got ourselves out of that bloody mess? Sorry for sounding preachy, but it won't be a good anti-depressant either.
Better than watching as my country uses my tax dollars to blow those people to bits at the same time as people are being chopped to pieces by the various dictators, religious fanatics and such.
Maybe nice for you, but not helping the victims there. And it is quite possible the death toll rises sharply when the region starts to fall apart, with the West and their local dicktators losing grip and the lids going off.
I'm willing to bet that they're better off without our 'help'.
In any case it's a guessing game. I have confidence that military withdrawal and a generally nihilistic attitude towards 'stability' is beneficial. Others may disagree.
Here's a saying for ya', "boots on the ground always get dirty". There, that's the take away!
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