Wahhabism (pseudo Salafism)

[anderson]

What do you mean by all combined? Don't get me wrong here, I want the US to maintain a strong military, but what we have now is just ridiculous overkill.

Says who.

No wonder we need to drum up support for wars on a regular basis, I mean how could you not with all that hardware going to waste, not to mention feeling a need to justify its existence.

We have many people who want to see us destroyed.

A true deficit hawk would put EVERYTHING on the table, which is why I don't take Republicans seriously in this regard.

That's because you've been suckered by the Democrat media who are pulling your strings. The Ryan budget cuts an unprecedented $5 trillion from the baseline. If you can't take that seriously then you can't be taken seriously.

Well why not take it a step farther though? Cut the military expenditures back to a merely obscene half trillion a year, save close to $250 billion a year, or another $2.5 trillion over 10.
I'm confused how you can pretend to be serious about cutting the waistline when you refuse to touch the biggest pieces.
And "I'm less unserious than the other guy" doesn't really cut it.
What is left to cut? You won't touch military, because you worship blood.
You won't touch medicare or social security because old people vote.
So you're left patting yourself on the back as you go after trimming the slivers - the federal departments. Y'all are trying to dine every day on KFC snack packs and think you're healthy because you switch to diet coke.


Oh, and about the military vs entitlements business? Military is an entitlement. It's the largest federal welfare program in the country.

[Mr. Perfect]

Can you explain to me how the less expensive program will make us bankrupt faster than the more expensive program?

Please see chart, entitlements are more than double military spending, including Obama's adventurism. Please get the basic facts.

Is there something magical about a dollar spent on healthcare that has different bankrupting properties from a dollar spent on the military?

Yes, medicare/medicaid/ + ss and welfare are over twice as many. You get the low hanging fruit.

It's funny to hear you say that American lives are more valuable than what we currently spend on the military when we could save millions of lives with better healthcare but you're against that.

It's all very strange.

No you guys are against it. You cut nearly a trillion dollars from medicare while Obama fought his wars. that was you guys.

I think you just like the killing.

I support a strong military in peacetime as well as wartime. A strong military can probably make the point more quickly with fewer deaths than a weak one. Leave no illusion as to the outcome. Save lives that way.

Why else would you say you favor saving american lives but oppose the measures that WOULD save lives while supporting the measures that actually make us less safe?

I don't know, why did the Democrats cut nearly a trillion dollars from Medicare? Obama says take a pill, go talk to him and all the Democrats first. They cut medicare while funding foreign wars and stuffing dollars into WS banks.

[Mr. Perfect]

Well why not take it a step farther though? Cut the military expenditures back to a merely obscene half trillion a year, save close to $250 billion a year, or another $2.5 trillion over 10.
I'm confused how you can pretend to be serious about cutting the waistline when you refuse to touch the biggest pieces.

No, I'm for entitlement cuts. The Ryan plan cuts entitlements according to your friend Biden. Maybe Biden did lose that debate after all. You are contradicting him

And "I'm less unserious than the other guy" doesn't really cut it.

We've got cuts coming, just ask the Obama campaign.

What is left to cut? You won't touch military, because you worship blood.

That hurts my feelings. I am for a large bloated military in peacetime also.

You won't touch medicare or social security because old people vote.

Obama says we're going to touch entitlements. Obama cut nearly a trillion dollars, you are stuck in an old argument loop. Obama care changed everything. You guys already cut Medicare, the rubicon has been breached. Done deal.

So you're left patting yourself on the back as you go after trimming the slivers - the federal departments. Y'all are trying to dine every day on KFC snack packs and think you're healthy because you switch to diet coke.

i don't know what this means. I'm putting everything on the table except the military. It's only 20% of the budget. I'm putting 80% of the budget on the table. Pretty good I would say.

Oh, and about the military vs entitlements business? Military is an entitlement. It's the largest federal welfare program in the country.

[/quote]
You guys should really like it then. This is progress.

[anderson]

Sounds like cowardice to me. Or just plain stupidity.
Why limit yourself to 80% of the pie?
Cut from the whole thing.
Either you keep cutting at the same rate, and end up with 25% more reductions, or you spread the dollar amount over a larger whole, making the cuts less painful across the board.

You bring up a number of 40-50 000 people potentially killed as some excuse for excessive military, justified by hypothetically saving these lives.

Well, twice that number die each year by some estimates in your hospitals each year of preventable causes / human error (Google "To Err is Human"). But, that's invisible, I guess, so it doesn't count.
I'm sure you can come up with a few tens of thousands of deaths in other areas with the right cuts in the right areas (Extreme weather monitoring and forecasting, disease control, maintenance of dams and other public infrastructure, as a few examples off the top of the head)

[Mr. Perfect]

Sounds like cowardice to me. Or just plain stupidity.
Why limit yourself to 80% of the pie?

It's a good start.

Cut from the whole thing.

No.

Either you keep cutting at the same rate, and end up with 25% more reductions, or you spread the dollar amount over a larger whole, making the cuts less painful across the board.

No.

You bring up a number of 40-50 000 people potentially killed as some excuse for excessive military, justified by hypothetically saving these lives.

Yup. Although with a weak military the number goes up geometrically.

Well, twice that number die each year by some estimates in your hospitals each year of preventable causes / human error (Google "To Err is Human"). But, that's invisible, I guess, so it doesn't count.

I'm sure you can come up with a few tens of thousands of deaths in other areas with the right cuts in the right areas (Extreme weather monitoring and forecasting, disease control, maintenance of dams and other public infrastructure, as a few examples off the top of the head)

Well, you guys had 2 years with near record majorities and near record popularity to adress all this and you cut medicare, you didn't do anything you are mentioning now, so I'll conclude you're dramatically disingenuous and we'll proceed according to conservative principles.

[anderson]

$750 billion a year on military in this world is not conservative.

[Mr. Perfect]

Then you should really like it.

[anderson]

Yeah, sorry, out in the real world, there are more than two arbitrary boxes for people to fit into.
My concern is results.

[Mr. Perfect]

That is certainly not true, the results under Obama have been terrible across the board yet you support him. And you brought up the category.

We have near record debts, record numbers of discouraged workers (U6 unemplyment is near 15%), record number of welfare recipients, falling incomes across the board except for rich white people, blacks have done proportionally the worst, a cratering of civil liberties, foreign policy failures around the world before I even get warmed up. Yet you support him all the same.

Your concerns are certainly not results. Anything but results.

[Mr. Perfect]

Results.

[anderson]

I supported Obama? News to me.
I'm Canadian. I can't support anyone in this game.

I'm open to putting everything on the board in a rational, systematic, intelligent, non-ideological way.
Get some consensus or compromise vision on what you want government to do in different areas.
Set measureable objectives of what you want to accomplish.
Try to innovate to find the most resource efficient ways to accomplish these goals.

Social security? Open to almost anything, aside from full scale privatization. Raise the retirement age. Means test amounts paid out to individuals. Raise or eliminate the caps on what income workers pay premiums out of.

Medicare? Get away from this notion that success is measured by how many dollars spent on it, and that cutting or slowing the growth of that figure is bad. Figure out what you want the system to achieve, and set measurable targets. Try to innovate, find best practices to become efficient with resources while achieving goals, and spread/propagate that innovation.

Similar across the other areas, including military.

[monster_gardener]

What's funny is that they wouldn't want to destroy us if our military wasn't occupying their countries.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Tinker.

Muslims don't necessarily want to kill us.... IF we either convert to the right type of Islam or agree to become Dhimmi serfs .....

If we obey the rules and pay the protection money oops I mean taxes and put up with getting slapped around..... and lots of other little things like that.....

Otherwise...... We are on their long list of people who will never be missed......

Not that being a Dhimmi is all that fun or even a Muslim.........

If you are the approved Salafi or similar/traditional type..... No Booze and effectively no figurative art or music...

And if you want a friend, you can NOT buy a dog.......

If you are a Shia then you do get to have some art and music but at the cost of becoming a ritual purity nut & getting into S&M with self-flagellation with chains...... *

Not that some Christians haven't got into this too...... But they still have the advantage as they have booze........

Eating Meat.... obvious..... though PETA will not approve....
Riding Meat..... riding horses...... Osama talks about this one........
Putting Meat into Meat...... NSFW

Note that the sex of the meat in the third case is NOT mentioned...........

Leading to that joke about how do you separate the men from the boys...... With a crowbar

To Be Fair, I have heard this joke about the Greeks as well as the Turks...........

And as Bad as this is...And it is BAD... Muslims even of the Salafi type still are rher better options than near mid 20th Century Germans...

*Your non religious pleasures besides raiding the Infidels are most famously.......

[Zack Morris]

How would more military spending have prevented either? How many troops does it take to stop a nuclear weapon? Are they going to stand arm-in-arm and intercept the shockwave?

Then how much is it worth spending to counter these threats with the wrong solutions?

You can kill 40-50,000 people without nukes, easily (crop duster + open air football stadium). Remember 9-11 was an attempted attack on nearly 50,000 people.

You seem to think that people will attack you in a way you find convenient or predictable, my study of the topic draws me to opposite conclusions.

Okay. Crop dusters. Got it. So how many carriers and troops do we need to prevent this sort of thing?

[monster_gardener]

How would more military spending have prevented either? How many troops does it take to stop a nuclear weapon? Are they going to stand arm-in-arm and intercept the shockwave?

Then how much is it worth spending to counter these threats with the wrong solutions?

You can kill 40-50,000 people without nukes, easily (crop duster + open air football stadium). Remember 9-11 was an attempted attack on nearly 50,000 people.

You seem to think that people will attack you in a way you find convenient or predictable, my study of the topic draws me to opposite conclusions.

Osama bin Laden said explicitly that he was attacking us because of our military bases in Saudi Arabia. If we hadn't been terrorizing the Middle-East for nearly a century they wouldn't have attacked us. They'd have attacked the Russians, Europe, China, Africa, but there is no conceivable reason why they'd travel to the other side of the planet to do war with us.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Tinker.

but there is no conceivable reason why they'd travel to the other side of the planet to do war with us.

Not much reason other than they are religious fanatics who think that Allah has told them to conquer/enslave the whole dam world for him, beavers included ........ especially beavers

[Skin Job]

What do you mean by all combined? Don't get me wrong here, I want the US to maintain a strong military, but what we have now is just ridiculous overkill.

Says who.

Me.

No wonder we need to drum up support for wars on a regular basis, I mean how could you not with all that hardware going to waste, not to mention feeling a need to justify its existence.

We have many people who want to see us destroyed.

Paranoid much?

A true deficit hawk would put EVERYTHING on the table, which is why I don't take Republicans seriously in this regard.

That's because you've been suckered by the Democrat media who are pulling your strings. The Ryan budget cuts an unprecedented $5 trillion from the baseline. If you can't take that seriously then you can't be taken seriously.

I don't give a rip about where you think I get my opinions. It's completely irrelevant to the discussion anyway. The Ryan budget is vaporware, and doesn't address my concern, which is a party that talks about reducing the debt while increasing our already excessive military spending won't be taken seriously.

[Mr. Perfect]

Osama bin Laden said explicitly that he was attacking us because of our military bases in Saudi Arabia.

Ever heard of Taqiyah.

If we hadn't been terrorizing the Middle-East for nearly a century they wouldn't have attacked us. They'd have attacked the Russians, Europe, China, Africa, but there is no conceivable reason why they'd travel to the other side of the planet to do war with us.

A lot of Pat Buchanan what ifs.

When you want to be king of the hill you gots to take out the king of the hill.

[Mr. Perfect]

Okay. Crop dusters. Got it. So how many carriers and troops do we need to prevent this sort of thing?

Probably more than we have now judging by the situations on the ground.

Look, none of you guys have any credibility on any of this whatsoever, you had 2 years with near record majorities and popularity and all you did was continue Bush wars and left the budget untouched, and you all cheered the whole time. So go waste someone else's time.

[Mr. Perfect]

Me.

I disagree with you.

Paranoid much?

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't trying to get you.

I don't give a rip about where you think I get my opinions. It's completely irrelevant to the discussion anyway. The Ryan budget is vaporware, and doesn't address my concern, which is a party that talks about reducing the debt while increasing our already excessive military spending won't be taken seriously.

Only if you don't understand politics, the important part is for the public to believe the government is cutting spending so that when you have to they're already used to the idea. That is the value of the Ryan plan.

[Zack Morris]

Okay. Crop dusters. Got it. So how many carriers and troops do we need to prevent this sort of thing?

Probably more than we have now judging by the situations on the ground.

How are more troops going to solve this problem? Seems like we've been trying this since Korea and it's never worked.

Look, none of you guys have any credibility on any of this whatsoever, you had 2 years with near record majorities and popularity and all you did was continue Bush wars and left the budget untouched, and you all cheered the whole time. So go waste someone else's time.

Stop trying to derail the conversation. How are more troops, more carriers, more expensive planes going to protect us from the people who currently most want to destroy us?

[Mr. Perfect]

How are more troops going to solve this problem? Seems like we've been trying this since Korea and it's never worked.

We don't know the nature of the next conflict. Boy Scouts of America says be prepared.

People say Gulf 1, Panama and Kosovo were a successes. Opinions do vary. But see my first two sentences.

Stop trying to derail the conversation. How are more troops, more carriers, more expensive planes going to protect us from the people who currently most want to destroy us?

What you do is call up Obama, call up Harry Reid, call up Nancy Pelosi, call up your CA Democrat Senators and your congressman and ask them why they fully funded the illegal Bush Wars and why they fully funded the US Military when they could have made small or dramatic cutbacks, and then report back what you find out.

[noddy]

wasabi terrorists are nasty people who put hot paste up sleeping peoples nostrils.

[Ibrahim]

Did this turn into a debate about US defense spending? Doesn't seem related. If it wasn't Islamic extremism it would be some other bogeyman to sucker half of America into buying more aircraft carriers.

[monster_gardener]

Did this turn into a debate about US defense spending? Doesn't seem related. If it wasn't Islamic extremism it would be some other bogeyman to sucker half of America into buying more aircraft carriers.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.......

I miss the Space Race...... We could be spending money on Space Ships... instead of Aircraft Carriers........

And the Biggest Baddest Badass Bogeyman is out there........

Her Name may be Matilda......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeking_a_ ... _the_World

And we are committing Suicide as we Search for Swag....

Down by the Billabong watching our Billies Boil....

Instead of preparing to stop her.....

But we depraved sinful killer apes are often Bogeymen and Boogey Women to each other.........

So "Let's Dance" the "Bogey Nights" away

N4d7Wp9kKjA

2XEmFuEbpzM

CwvazMc5EfE

[monster_gardener]

wasabi terrorists are nasty people who put hot paste up sleeping peoples nostrils.

Thank You VERY Much for your post, Noddy

GOOD One!



Your National Song above..........

[Skin Job]

Did this turn into a debate about US defense spending? Doesn't seem related. If it wasn't Islamic extremism it would be some other bogeyman to sucker half of America into buying more aircraft carriers.

We need to stop calling it defense spending. The US military is on offense virtually all of the time. But, point taken.