History of Turkish Jews - Ottoman and Modern

[TurkishJew]

From now on the nerd user name HAL 9000 will be reserved for Science and Technology threads, or at least for subjects that are not political.

From now on, in my comments about the Middle East, etc, I will be known as "TurkishJew". The avatar is my grandfather in the Ottoman Empire. (Update: I was just informed that I am not allowed to use two different user names simultaneously, and so from now own I will only use the TurkishJew identity uniformly. The HAL9000 account has been disabled.)

This thread is about the history of Ottoman and Modern Turkish Jews. At the height of the Ottoman Empire, approximately 185,000 Jews resided there. Currently the Jewish population of Turkey is 17,000.

Later I will give a lot of details about Turkish Jews in this thread, but let me first entertain you by mentioning my grandfather in the Ottoman Empire. I am the black sheep of my family in comparison, he risked his life for Turkey several times, both before and after the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Jews were loyal to the end, even after Turkey was invaded by European powers.

Here is my grandfather in the Ottoman Empire. He actually played backgammon with Mustafa Kemal. He was known by Ataturk, but they were not close friends.



These are the pictures of two of my grandfather's medals he earned in the Ottoman Empire before or during World War I:

This medal is obviously Turkish:


But this second medal (the two sides are different but the following images are from the same medal) requires some explanation because it is obviously German, it is not Turkish. Germany and the Ottoman Empire were allies during World War I (actually even before World War I started.) This medal was given to my grandfather for his accomplishments in the Ottoman Empire, by the German prince Eitel-Frederick who had high opinion of Turkey.

[TurkishJew]

The Wikipedia article has a good summary about the history of Turkish Jews:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Jews

After Spain expelled the Jewish population, these so-called Sephardic Jews were dispersed worldwide. More than 500 years ago, many of them were accepted by the Ottoman Empire as refugees. Even though the Sephardic Spahish Jews in Turkey kept their culture and the Judeo-Spanish dialect, they also absorbed the Turkish culture.

Most of the Turkish Jews are from Spain, but there is also a small percentage of Russian and Central European Jews.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo_Spanish


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD4EhBN3Rsw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8REepsqhAHM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzv2ef0-CMA


These two songs were composed by Ottoman Jews:

1) This Jewish song from the Ottoman Empire is about he Sirkeci neighborhood of Istanbul (sung in Judeo-Spanish):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Mz2ArNe8Q

2) Here is another Jewish song from the Ottoman Empire. Note that although this song is in Ladino (Judeo-Spanish), some Turkish words are also added:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D0QFVVvKrE

[monster_gardener]

From now on the nerd user name HAL 9000 will be reserved for Science and Technology threads, or at least for subjects that are not political.

From now on, in my comments about the Middle East, etc, I will be known as "TurkishJew". The avatar is my grandfather in the Ottoman Empire. (Update: I was just informed that I am not allowed to use two different user names simultaneously, and so from now own I will also use the TurkishJew identity uniformly.)

This thread is about the history of Ottoman and Modern Turkish Jews. At the height of the Ottoman Empire, approximately 185,000 Jews resided there. Currently the Jewish population of Turkey is 17,000.

Later I will give a lot of details about Turkish Jews in this thread, but let me first entertain you by mentioning my grandfather in the Ottoman Empire. I am the black sheep of my family in comparison, he risked his life for Turkey several times, both before and after the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Jews were loyal to the end, even after Turkey was invaded by European powers.

Here is my grandfather in the Ottoman Empire. He actually played backgammon with Mustafa Kemal. He was known by Ataturk, but they were not close friends.



These are the pictures of two of my grandfather's medals he earned in the Ottoman Empire before or during World War I:

This medal is obviously Turkish:


But this second medal (the two sides are different but the following images are from the same medal) requires some explanation because it is obviously German, it is not Turkish. Germany and the Ottoman Empire were allies during World War I (actually even before World War I started.) This medal was given to my grandfather for his accomplishments in the Ottoman Empire, by the German prince Eitel-Frederick who had high opinion of Turkey.

Thank You VERY Much for your post, Hal/Turkish Jew.

Thank you For Sharing your Story......

The Ottoman Jews were loyal to the end, even after Turkey was invaded by European powers.

And sometimes Turks were loyal to Turkish Jews at a high cost......

Remembering Righteous Among the Nations (RAN) Selahattin Ülkümen, Turkish Consul to Rhodes........

On 19 July 1944, the Gestapo ordered all of the island’s Jewish population to gather at its headquarters: ostensibly they were to register for "temporary transportation to a small island nearby", but in reality they were gathered for transport to Auschwitz and its gas chambers. Ülkümen went to the German commanding officer, General Kleeman, to remind him that Turkey was neutral in the war. He asked for release of the Jews, including not only Turkish citizens but also their spouses and relatives, even though many of the latter were Italian and Greek citizens.[2] At first the commander refused, stating that under Nazi law, all Jews were Jews and had to go to the concentration camps. Ülkümen responded with "under Turkish law all citizens were equal. We didn’t differentiate between citizens who were Jewish, Christian or Muslim."[3]

Ülkümen told Kleeman that "I would advise my Government if he didn’t release the Jewish Turks it would cause an international incident. Then he agreed."[4] The Jews protected by Ülkümen were released, though not until they were subjected to considerable additional harassment by the Nazi authorities. Ülkümen continued to provide protection and moral support to those whom he had rescued and other Jews who remained on the island. They feared suffering deportation, as they were required to report to the Gestapo daily and never knew whether or not they would be able to return home.

Soon after Ülkümen's gaining release of Turkish Jews, the Germans rounded up the Greek Jews on Rhodes, numbering 1673 in all, and deported them to Greece. From there, the Germans had them transported to extermination camps; only 151 of the group survived the war.[5]
Nazi retaliation

In retaliation German planes bombed the Turkish consulate on Rhodes. Killed in the bombing were Ülkümen’s pregnant wife Mihrinissa Ülkümen, as well as two consular employees. The Germans quickly detained and deported Ülkümen to Piraeus on mainland Greece and confined him there for the remainder of the war.

During the next six months, Jewish Turks remaining on Rhodes were subjected to almost constant harassment by the Gestapo, which often detained them for long periods of time. It did not deport them to concentration camps as earlier planned, presumably because of the disorder and other requirements for transport in the Third Reich during the last days of the war.

Finally, early in January 1945, the German commander Kleeman learned that representatives of the International Red Cross were to visit Rhodes to look into the situation of its population. He ordered the remaining Jews on the island to go to Turkey, which they did the next day, traveling in small boats across a stormy sea to safety at the port of Marmaris.
After the war

Released at the end of the war, Ülkümen returned to Turkey.

He died in his sleep on July 7, 2003 in Istanbul, Turkey at the age of 89.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selahattin ... k%C3%BCmen

My grandfather played backgammon with Mustafa Kemal.

Remembering a famous quote of Mustafa Kemal........"I wish all religion was at the bottom of the sea".........

I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men.
Quoted in Atatürk: The Biography of the founder of Modern Turkey, by Andrew Mango; "In a book published in 1928, Grace Ellison quotes [Atatürk], presumably in 1926-27", Grace Ellison Turkey Today (London: Hutchinson, 1928)

I might go farther "Some religions need their own Orbitals and interstellar distances in between"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_%28The_Culture%29

Though we may have to settle for Bishop's Rings and interplanetary distances.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Ring_%28habitat%29

[Jnalum Persicum]

.

TurkishJew ,

"User Name" should indicate one's personality in a single word .. An Arab of Jewish faith with username "Richard Green" means wanting to hide something

That is why I always chose username making "Christal clear" who you dealing with

in that sense, it was a noble move to change to "TurkishJew" - congratulation

and

One should differentiate between Turkish Jew and Turk of Jewish faith

Turkish Jew, are Jews, who, last few 100 yrs, resided in Turkey (and now might move to somewhere else) .. Turk of Jewish faith are Turks that adhere, believe, in Torah (like Turks of Muslim faith adhere to Koran), neither Turks of Muslim faith would move to Arabia nor Turks of Jewish faith would move to Palestine.

and

Acid test of being a PATRIOT Turk (I assume those medals should mean that), "TurkishJew", is not whether Jews in Turkey fought with Ottoman Sultans against Russians (probably vested interest)

Acid test, is, whether, Jews of Turkey will fight for Turkey if a war brakes out between Turkey and Israel

fact is,

sadly

Hebrew tribe, Jews, were not loyal to Middle East, Turkey or even Iran

Turkey played a small role in Hebrew tribe history, Jews came back (returned) from Spain to ME, and Ottoman Sultans used them for their own purpose (Ottoman Sultans kept away ethnic Turks and Muslims from power .. power was given to Christians, Jews) .. a proven strategy, give privileges to a very small minority and they will be loyal to you, Brits did same in Africa importing Indians to rule the blacks .. sort of, a business deal, give & take, win-win for both side .. that is why Turkish Jews became wealthy, still now they the backbone of Turkish finances

Jews of Middle East were fooled by European and Russian Jews to turn their back to their homes of 1000s of yrs, to abandon the warmth of Middle Eastern culture and civilization for an utopia that could have a bad ending (if not handled properly), most bridges are torn down, was a big mistake

TurkishJew, ME Jews are trusting their destiny, future of their children, into the hands of creatures like Lieberman & friends .. would you buy a used car from those characters, let alone trust your future in their hands ? ?



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[Jnalum Persicum]

.

Remembering a famous quote of Mustafa Kemal........"I wish all religion was at the bottom of the sea".........

.

Kamal Pasha was a military man, a soldier

Military man think simplistic

Circumstances Ottomans, Turkey, found itself in when Kamal Pasha took over, was not because of RELIGION, Islam

The culprits were the Sultans and Turks themselves

Ottoman Sultans were head of Sunni Islam, Khalifa, for 500 yrs .. they were in charge of intellectual development (transformation) of Islam @ a time that Europe, Christianity were going through shattering transformation (enlightenment, Aufklärung ) that opened the doors for education, science and modernity

Not Islam, but the Turks and Sultans were the culprits

Turks, Ottomans, did not have the dept to be head of Islam .. Persian (Islam) philosophers gave the philosophical dept to (Sunni) Islam

In that sense , Kamal Pasha was WRONG

Notion .. changing costume, shave clean, changing the alphabet, putting all mad mullahs on a ship and sinking it and gimmicks of that sort .. would catapult Turkey into modernity and secular, a pipe-dream

Secular or believer must come from within, neither can be neither legislated nor ordered.

Erdogan thinking best defense is an offense

Well .. things might now unravel in Turkey

Ibrahim, Syria was a mistake .. should have listened to Iran



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[TurkishJew]

.

Jews of Middle East were fooled by European and Russian Jews to turn their back to their homes of 1000s of yrs, to abandon the warmth of Middle Eastern culture and civilization for an utopia that could have a bad ending (if not handled properly), most bridges are torn down, was a big mistake



.

This is not completely true. In Arab countries, Jews did not have equality, they were tolerated to some extent, and certainly this tolerance was better than the European intolerance, but it was not equality.

Furthermore, note that most Arab countries such as Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, etc, used the creation of Israel as an excuse to loot and exile 600,000 Arab Jews, it was not just for sympathy for Palestinians, the proof being that most Palestinians who live in other Arab countries still have refugee status and they are not care for as much as the magnitude of the anti-Jewish riots should suggest after the creation of Israel. Thus what you said about "Mizrahi Jews made a mistake by burning the bridges with their native Arab countries", is not correct. In fact, consider this: If Israel is dismantled and Mizrahi Jews are left without a country, it will then be a very possible scenario that these Mizrahi Jews will go back to their native Arab countries, but with the novelty that their intention will not be to beg for equality and acceptance, but they will go back to these places to get revenge. That revenge can be much bigger than anything seen in recorded history. Indeed, all of Israel may be evacuated by the Mizrahi Jews, but they might get back their previous lands in Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, etc, in a very violent way, and this time they would be right. Consider it an Arab revolt. Right now the offspring of the Mizrahi Jews who live in Israel is nearly 2,500,000.

[Jnalum Persicum]

.

.

Jews of Middle East were fooled by European and Russian Jews to turn their back to their homes of 1000s of yrs, to abandon the warmth of Middle Eastern culture and civilization for an utopia that could have a bad ending (if not handled properly), most bridges are torn down, was a big mistake

.

This is not completely true. In Arab countries, Jews did not have equality, they were tolerated to some extent, and certainly this tolerance was better than the European intolerance, but it was not equality.

.

TurkishJew

what you say above is often said by ME Jews about ME & Jews

but , you 4get one point

True, different Arab speaking countries, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Libya and and different culture and mindset prevailed and Christians and Jews did not live in total equality with Arabs of Muslim faith according to absolute values of equality we cherish today

but

compare apple with apple

compare, at any given time of history of last 800 yrs, Damascus, Córdoba , Cairo , Baghdad, Istanbul and and and with the freedom and right and quality of life Jews had in West/Europe including America (until 70 yrs ago, Martin Luther King episode was for Jews and balcks)


Look at Europe :

.

Jewish emancipation

Jews were subject to a wide range of restrictions throughout most of European history. Since the Fourth Council of the Lateran in 1215, Christian Europeans required Jews and Muslims to wear special clothing, such as the Judenhut (which they traditionally wore by choice) and the yellow badge for Jews, to distinguish them from Christians. The practice of their religions was often restricted, and they had to swear special oaths (see Oath More Judaico). Jews were not allowed to vote, and some countries formally prohibited their entry, such as Norway, Sweden and Spain after the expulsion in the late 15th century.

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Jews got (in theory) citizenship rights around 150 yrs ago .. Jews could not own property not even 100 yrs ago


but

at the same time , last 800 yrs, Bash Vazirs in Ottoman were Jews, Andalusia was paradise for Jews, Jews could own any property and and and .. there was very very few, if any, restrictions for Jews in Muslim land last 800 yrs, if any, pls quote

I challenge any Middle Eastern Jew to argue that, last 800 yrs until 100 yrs ago, Middle Eastern Jews relative to their Muslim Middle Eastern co-patriots had less freedom and equality than European Jews had versus their Christian co-patriots (and even 4getting Nazi period)

In General, many Rabbis have told me, Jews lived much freer among Muslim culture and civilization than among christian .. that for a reason

.

Furthermore, note that most Arab countries such as Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, etc, used the creation of Israel as an excuse to loot and exile 600,000 Arab Jews, it was not just for sympathy for Palestinians, the proof being that most Palestinians who live in other Arab countries still have refugee status and they are not care for as much as the magnitude of the anti-Jewish riots should suggest after the creation of Israel. Thus what you said about "Mizrahi Jews made a mistake by burning the bridges with their native Arab countries", is not correct. In fact, consider this: If Israel is dismantled and Mizrahi Jews are left without a country, it will then be a very possible scenario that these Mizrahi Jews will go back to their native Arab countries, but with the novelty that their intention will not be to beg for equality and acceptance, but they will go back to these places to get revenge. That revenge can be much bigger than anything seen in recorded history. Indeed, all of Israel may be evacuated by the Mizrahi Jews, but they might get back their previous lands in Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, etc, in a very violent way, and this time they would be right. Consider it an Arab revolt. Right now the offspring of the Mizrahi Jews who live in Israel is nearly 2,500,000.

.

Have read, Zionist, intentionally created situations turning Arab population against their Jewish citizens (to force them to immigrate to Israel, like now offering money to Iranian Jews to move to Israel) .. Although, you yourself said, or Rhaspy was it, that all Jews are Zionist (you said you Zionist)

Well, if so, you a declared enemy of ME and Arabs .. that is definition of Zionism

Am sure you know the telegram Rabbis send back home saying "the bride beautiful but already married to another man"

.

Two rabbis, visiting Palestine in 1897, observed that the land was like a bride, "beautiful,but married to another man". By which they meant that, if a place was to be found for Israel in Palestein, where would the people of Palestine go ?

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Well, TurkishJew, what would you expect ? ? ? you an enemy of Arab by your own definition

and

agree

if one day ME Jews must go back home .. I hope it does not come to that, things must be settled .. all blood and treasure Arabs paid due to Zionist and all blood and treasure ME Jews lost in Arab land must be settled

But it does not need to come to that

Iran can fix it for you



.

[Jnalum Persicum]

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Atatürk - İran Şahı ile Konuşması

6ql0Oe42Nk8
mFNP0IFtfjs



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[TurkishJew]

..

The Ottoman Jews were loyal to the end, even after Turkey was invaded by European powers.

And sometimes Turks were loyal to Turkish Jews at a high cost......

Remembering Righteous Among the Nations (RAN) Selahattin Ülkümen, Turkish Consul to Rhodes........

On 19 July 1944, the Gestapo ordered all of the island’s Jewish population to gather at its headquarters: ostensibly they were to register for "temporary transportation to a small island nearby", but in reality they were gathered for transport to Auschwitz and its gas chambers. Ülkümen went to the German commanding officer, General Kleeman, to remind him that Turkey was neutral in the war. He asked for release of the Jews, including not only Turkish citizens but also their spouses and relatives, even though many of the latter were Italian and Greek citizens.[2] At first the commander refused, stating that under Nazi law, all Jews were Jews and had to go to the concentration camps. Ülkümen responded with "under Turkish law all citizens were equal. We didn’t differentiate between citizens who were Jewish, Christian or Muslim."[3]

Ülkümen told Kleeman that "I would advise my Government if he didn’t release the Jewish Turks it would cause an international incident. Then he agreed."[4] The Jews protected by Ülkümen were released, though not until they were subjected to considerable additional harassment by the Nazi authorities. Ülkümen continued to provide protection and moral support to those whom he had rescued and other Jews who remained on the island. They feared suffering deportation, as they were required to report to the Gestapo daily and never knew whether or not they would be able to return home.

Soon after Ülkümen's gaining release of Turkish Jews, the Germans rounded up the Greek Jews on Rhodes, numbering 1673 in all, and deported them to Greece. From there, the Germans had them transported to extermination camps; only 151 of the group survived the war.[5]
Nazi retaliation

In retaliation German planes bombed the Turkish consulate on Rhodes. Killed in the bombing were Ülkümen’s pregnant wife Mihrinissa Ülkümen, as well as two consular employees. The Germans quickly detained and deported Ülkümen to Piraeus on mainland Greece and confined him there for the remainder of the war.

During the next six months, Jewish Turks remaining on Rhodes were subjected to almost constant harassment by the Gestapo, which often detained them for long periods of time. It did not deport them to concentration camps as earlier planned, presumably because of the disorder and other requirements for transport in the Third Reich during the last days of the war.

Finally, early in January 1945, the German commander Kleeman learned that representatives of the International Red Cross were to visit Rhodes to look into the situation of its population. He ordered the remaining Jews on the island to go to Turkey, which they did the next day, traveling in small boats across a stormy sea to safety at the port of Marmaris.
After the war

Released at the end of the war, Ülkümen returned to Turkey.

He died in his sleep on July 7, 2003 in Istanbul, Turkey at the age of 89.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selahattin ... k%C3%BCmen

Yes, despite the occasional political events in the government, there are many individual Turks who have true integrity and high moral values. Indeed, the people that Selahattin Ülkümen saved in Rhodes, were the distant relatives of my grandfather I mentioned at the beginning of this thread. Rhodes was part of the Ottoman Empire. My grandfather (I mean my paternal grandfather, not my mother's side) was born in Alaiye, in the Western part of Anatolia, which is in Turkey, just a few miles from Rhodes, and at least one of his parents moved from Rhodes to mainland Anatolia. The Italians took Rhodes from the Ottomans and gave Italian citizenship to the Ottoman Jews, but some of these Ottoman Jews were still attached to the Turkish culture and they actually refused to accept Italian citizenship and they kept their Turkish citizenship. These were the Jews Selahattin Ülkümen managed to save from the Nazis. The other Jews of Rhodes who accepted Italian citizenship after Rhodes was taken by the Italians from the Ottoman Empire, were later killed by the Nazis.

Here is a documentary video about the Ottoman Jews who resided in Rhodes. This is the story about one of the Jewish girls from Rhodes who left the Island for the United States, just before the Nazis invaded Rhodes (after Germany took over Italy).

This video is 25 minutes long, and it also shows some of the Sephardic Spanish Turkish Jewish culture from Rhodes. She did not meet Selahattin Ülkümen, but please see the video, as it gives very good details about the Ottoman Jews of Rhodes (or what remains of them.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPx6suJStVg

Right now there are only a few Jews who live in Rhodes, There were 2,000 Jews in Rhodes when the Nazis took over the island.

I have personally met one of the few Jews of Rhodes who survived the death camps. When I was a child in Turkey, I moved to the United States because of my father's distant relatives who were immigrating from Rhodes to the United States during the 19th century. The Ottoman connection.

But my mother's story is more interesting: My mother's family is also of Ottoman Jewish ancestry, when the Ottoman Empire controlled all of Greece, most of my mother's family was near Salonika. But when Greece gained its independence from Turkey, my mother's family became Greek citizens before my mother was born. But just before Nazi Germany invaded Greece, my mother's father in Greece, found a job in Istanbul, Turkey, and managed to get a work related visa. This way my mother's life was saved when she was less than 10 years old. My mother's story was not as dramatic as the special visas given to French Jews by the Turkish consulate in Paris: after all, my mother's family received work related visa Turkey under less urgent conditions just before World War II, but considering the fact that 95 % of Greek Jews were killed during WW II, and given that all of my mother's cousins in Greece perished, the probability is very high that I indirectly owe my life to Mustafa Kemal's Turkey. But I suspect that the reason my mother and her parents were accepted by Turkey just before WW II was probably because they presented themselves as Jews: had they presented themselves as ethnic Greeks, probably Turkey would not have accepted them.

However, note that it was not state policy in Turkey to save Jews during the Holocaust. Although Ataturk liked Jews, the main focus of modern Turkey was to emphasize the Turkish culture and national unity by accepting only assimilable groups. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Turkey was no longer interested in accepting large groups that are not ethnically Turkish.