Turkey

Ibrahim
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote: I don't know who or what you are referring to.
I am refering to bruises on foreheads being the sign of a fundie and running the show.

I don't know what you are talking about.


So your theory is that he will take over the country shortly?
Iraq is in civil war as seen by the car bombings, how it turns out will be anybody's guess, but one thing is for sure it won't be a liberal democracy, arts students aren't as good street fighters as Madrassa honed fundies.
Are you aware that madrassa means "school?" Anyway it doesn't take a great deal of guts to predict further chaos in Iraq. I fail to see how this makes a continuation of dictatorial regimes preferable.


-
In either case, the Saudis do not "run "Bahrain."
In my experience he who owns the tanks on the street owns the joint
Do you have much experience being involved in civil wars and revolutions?

Still don't see what this has to do with your movie.
The point of the 'Lord of war' referrence is that uprisings are armed by NGO's with the under the table support of G's.
Which country are you claiming this is happening in? You said Syria initially, but we've corrected that. Where else do you think this is happening?


What exactly are you suggesting (beyond your fondness for Lord of War)?
A favourite saying of mine is 'fighting for peace is like genuflecting for virginity', the invasion of Iraq has not diminished the 'bad' in Iraq, only fragmented it, making it harder to counter. The rise of the Muslim brotherhood is just another dictatorship, as once they gain the numbers they do away with elections, so all western meddling has done is instigate the rise of a medieval dictatorship, a nice boost for the Caliphate, OBL would be proud. good one. still the arms dealers would be happy, nothing like a boost to the crusades for sales.
So in your mind dictators we know were not democratic and committed documented abuses were superior to whatever followed them because, you are certain, the new regimes will be as bad or worse anyway? And that this is somehow tied to terrorism in your mind, hence your invocation of "OLB" and "Caliphate?" That is to say that the options are limited to Arabs ruled by dictators or Arabs being terrorists, with you preferring dictators.
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Prayer Bump, not a Hole but evidence that One is an A-Hole

Post by monster_gardener »

Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote: I don't know who or what you are referring to.
I am refering to bruises on foreheads being the sign of a fundie and running the show.
So your theory is that he will take over the country shortly?
Iraq is in civil war as seen by the car bombings, how it turns out will be anybody's guess, but one thing is for sure it won't be a liberal democracy, arts students aren't as good street fighters as Madrassa honed fundies.

-
In either case, the Saudis do not "run "Bahrain."
In my experience he who owns the tanks on the street owns the joint
Still don't see what this has to do with your movie.
The point of the 'Lord of war' referrence is that uprisings are armed by NGO's with the under the table support of G's.
What exactly are you suggesting (beyond your fondness for Lord of War)?
A favourite saying of mine is 'fighting for peace is like genuflecting for virginity', the invasion of Iraq has not diminished the 'bad' in Iraq, only fragmented it, making it harder to counter. The rise of the Muslim brotherhood is just another dictatorship, as once they gain the numbers they do away with elections, so all western meddling has done is instigate the rise of a medieval dictatorship, a nice boost for the Caliphate, OBL would be proud. good one. still the arms dealers would be happy, nothing like a boost to the crusades for sales.
Thank you very much for your post, Carbizene.
Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote: I don't know who or what you are referring to.
I am refering to bruises on foreheads being the sign of a fundie and running the show.
The head :wink: of Al Queda, Ayman_al-Zawahiri, may be the current most famous malicious malignant Muslim miscreant :wink: with a "hole in his head"...

Per wiki, it is a "prayer bump" rather than a "hole" even though it looks like a-hole :wink: .... BUTT :wink: it can often be evidence of a good probability that the owner of the bump is an A$$hole..... dangerous violent religious nut case..... infected with a malignant malicious Muslim meme.....
Approach with caution...... preferably with a Predator RPV :twisted: * or a Predator :twisted: :twisted: **
A prayer bump or prayer scar, also known as a zabiba/zebiba/zebibah ("raisin" in Arabic), is a mark on the forehead of a Muslim, apparently due to the friction generated from the contact of the forehead with the prayer mat. Islam generally requires its adherents to pray five times a day (known as salah), which involves kneeling on a prayer mat and touching the ground with one's forehead. When done for extended periods of time, a prayer bump may develop. Some Muslims may consider the presence of a prayer bump to be a sign of religious dedication and piety.[1] Some Muslims also believe that on the day of judgement, this bump will particularly fluoresce an immense white light.[2]

The prayer bump can take the form of a discolouration of the skin, caused by repeated chafing and the build-up of callus. In extreme cases, the callus can be thick enough to create a real bump that protrudes from the forehead. They may also develop due to frequent prayer on hard surfaces such as stone floors.

I am trying to resist making some darkly humorous comments/wishes regarding Zawahiri, his prayer bump, and subdural hematomas but it is VERY hard ;) :twisted: :lol:


*quite appropriate in Zawahiri's case as he organized the 911 use of hostage filled cruise missiles........ Supposedly Osama was inspiring but couldn't organize a 2 camel caravan........


** Or a Predator :wink: Hey it could be moral improvement................ have a code against killing pregnant women, non-combatants.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predator_%28film%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predator_2#Plot

... just as long as they agree to not bring in illegal Aliens ;) :twisted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predator_% ... nd_history
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Ibrahim
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Re: Prayer Bump, not a Hole but evidence that One is an A-Ho

Post by Ibrahim »

monster_gardener wrote: Per wiki, it is a "prayer bump" rather than a "hole" even though it looks like a-hole :wink: .... BUTT :wink: it can often be evidence of a good probability that the owner of the bump is an A$$hole..... dangerous violent religious nut case..... infected with a malignant malicious Muslim meme.....
Approach with caution...... preferably with a Predator RPV :twisted: * or a Predator :twisted: :twisted: **

Usually I don't bother to wade through mg's incoherent nonsense to notice how violent and racist his views are.
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Refutation questions.. A peaceful wish for Zawahiri

Post by monster_gardener »

Ibrahim wrote:
monster_gardener wrote: Per wiki, it is a "prayer bump" rather than a "hole" even though it looks like a-hole :wink: .... BUTT :wink: it can often be evidence of a good probability that the owner of the bump is an A$$hole..... dangerous violent religious nut case..... infected with a malignant malicious Muslim meme.....
Approach with caution...... preferably with a Predator RPV :twisted: * or a Predator :twisted: :twisted: **

Usually I don't bother to wade through mg's incoherent nonsense to notice how violent and racist his views are.
Usually I do try to read Ibrahim's interesting but usually arbitrary and un-referenced posts :wink:


Alright Ib, How is my opinion of Ayman Al-Zawahiri incorrect?


1. Is Zawahiri not an organizer of the 911 hostage filled manned cruise missile attacks on America?

2. Is Zawahiri not infected with the malignant malicious Muslim meme called Salafi Jihadism?

3. Is Zawahiri not a dangerous, violent religious nut-case who people who are not of his persuasion should approach with caution ready defend with deadly force?

4. Is Zawahiri not an "A$$hole" ;) who, given the above, would make the world a better place if one fine day during Muslim morning prayers, while banging his head on the hard ground improving his prayer bump, he gave himself a subdural hemotoma sufficient to put him out of action for a time emerging from coma an improved** peaceful man uninterested in promoting malignant malicious Muslim memes....

I will grant you that my opinion of Zawahiri may be as violent as Zawahiri's opinion of Infidels like me and Zawahiri's actions toward US/uz and other Infidels..

But just imagine if my pacific wish for Zawahiri to be enlightened during Muslims morning prayers by Amida Buddha and begin preaching the "Lotus of the True Law" Sutra and call for Afgahnistan to be ruled again by a reincarnated King Mahinda and rebuild the Bamyan Buddhas were fulfilled...... :shock: :o :shock: ..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Even if he somehow escaped the clutches of his crazed former co-coreligionists.........

Somehow I suspect that the as yet unenlightened Zawahiri might prefer to face the ironic Predator/RPV..........

But in order to avoid sin/karmic problems, I will accept your criticism regarding violence and wish the above pacific wish for Zawahiri with the proviso that he does escape from his crazed former co-coreligionists and become a St. Paul ;) for Buddhists ;) to the Muslims! ;) :shock: :o :shock:

I must reject your criticism that I am "Racist", though........ Where in my post did I mention Zawahiri's race whatever that may be?

But since you raised this red herring of race, I will say that IMHO people like Zawahiri who had the misfortune to be born in a time and place where they were infected as children with a malicious malignant Muslim meme :twisted: are much less culpable than those like Adam Gadahn the Western Al Queda spokesperson who adopt a malicious malignant Muslim meme :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: by choice .........

Never the less, I wish a similar pacific wish for Adam Gadahn if he is still alive, may he go and do likewise as I have wished for Zawahiri with a double portion :wink: of the Buddha's spirit........

Really Ib, FWIW IMVHO for humans it is much more the meme that matters rather than the gene in most cases.........

I may be mistaken............. Azari seems to regard the gene higher......... At least in the ME.......... Maybe not in NA......

Feel free to prove me wrong.......... I'll listen............ unless I get bored with your arbitrary ways........

Is that coherent :wink: enough or should I use a laser :wink: pointer during the next lecture....... :lol:



* Would probably need DNA testing to tell for sure and probably find out that Zawahiri and I share a female ancestor in ancient Africa :shock: :o :shock: :lol: ...

**That's easy :wink: .........
Last edited by monster_gardener on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ibrahim
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Muslims who pray a lot are probably insane and should only be dealt with via drones? What's not to like?
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Dickensian Danger Dealing with Jihadis & Warrior Monks....

Post by monster_gardener »

Ibrahim wrote:Muslims who pray a lot are probably insane and should only be dealt with via drones? What's not to like?
Thank you Very Much for your post and reply, Ibrahim.

Dickensian Danger Dealing with Jihadis & Warrior Monks, Kamekazes, Beserkers............

Muslims who pray a lot are probably insane and should only be dealt with via drones?
No...

Rather that it can be blackly humorous and ironic that many of the malignant malicious Muslims of Al Queda whose deadly plans & prayers converted passenger aircraft into hostage filled cruise missiles have been killed by deadly "toy" infidel aircraft...
What's not to like?
Plenty........

I am actually concerned about the use of drones........ Beside remembering that scandal where IIRC a military contractor sold defective drones that tended to hit the wrong targets.....and the CIA or Defense covered it up.........

I am concerned that we/US/uz are working toward a future like Phillip K. Dick foresaw.... war worlds with talking doors and deadly robotic assassins...

But when fighting nutcase religious warriors, the temptation is high to avoid normal combat/warfare with them because that gives the nuts the advantage......


This applies not just to Religion Mad Muslim Jihadis........ I have read that Saladin tended to allow the more "normal/secular" crusaders he captured to be ransomed.... but tended to execute Christian Warrior Monks ...................
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Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
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AzariLoveIran

Re: Turkey

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.

We got off track

issue was why Turkey not joining Iran to built the "New Middle East"

Instead Turkey joining Sarko, Churchill, Saudi (Wahhabi & Salafi), Qattar (Amirates), Israel, CIA and and and, against the progressive forces in Middle East, to built the next Khalifat , western idea of "the new ME"

not so ? ?

- Study the Libyan case

- Egypt handed to Muslim Brotherhood by Egyptian military .. and now Syria

what would be a progressive Egypt ? .. Mohamed ElBaradei


ElBaradei quits race, says no democracy in Egypt

Asked an Egyptian friend .. he said, America & Israel do not want ElBaradei .. When ElBaradei was head of UN atomic agency, he did not dance (meaning forged and lied) to American music, Amano loves Western Music

Recently Dennis Ross was selling "The New Muslim Brotherhood" :lol:

West not interested in progressive forces in ME

West wants "client states"

That is where the clash comes with Iran

Turkey on the wrong side


.
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

Ibrahim wrote:I don't know what you are talking about.
You are aware that somebody with a bruise on their forehead means that abrahamic ideology is so fundamental to their life they are prepared to hurt themselves to prove their loyalty to a invisible entity abraham the child sacrificer spoke to. people that hurt themselves continually are mentally unstable, to suggest otherwise means that oneself is unstable.
Are you aware that madrassa means "school?" Anyway it doesn't take a great deal of guts to predict further chaos in Iraq. I fail to see how this makes a continuation of dictatorial regimes preferable.
all right..abrahamite madrassa/school.

So you agree with me that taking out Sadam has created untold years of death in Iraq.

we will see after 20 more years of civil war in Iraq what is preferable.
Do you have much experience being involved in civil wars and revolutions?
I can read, next you will be saying I can't say the Holocaust was bad because I wasn't there or that Custer picked the wrong gun because I wasn't actually there.
Which country are you claiming this is happening in? You said Syria initially, but we've corrected that. Where else do you think this is happening?
err .. no you haven't. i was talking about arms being brought in to Syria from Turkey as supported by the BBC report, as for where else this is happening, any war with NGF's (non governmental forces) gets their arms from private dealers...where do you think they get them from..under the Christmas tree?

So in your mind dictators we know were not democratic and committed documented abuses were superior to whatever followed them because, you are certain, the new regimes will be as bad or worse anyway? And that this is somehow tied to terrorism in your mind, hence your invocation of "OLB" and "Caliphate?" That is to say that the options are limited to Arabs ruled by dictators or Arabs being terrorists, with you preferring dictators.
Of course i don't like dictators, but the process by which they are removed has to come from within and be fully supported by other nations, not enforced by other nations. look at the way the UZ still supported Mubarak with billions of dollars even while there was people on the street, it has in no way threatened to withdraw those billions if a proper electoral process is not set up, giving time for a diverse opposition to develop, which there wasn't in Egypt. Instead the UZ slotted right in with the fundamentalists (i need a laugh..tell me the brotherhood ain't fundies) and the arms keep flowing. Ironically not totally disimilar to slotting in with OBL to fight the Soviets to keep the arms flowing, seems the UZ will suck any vagina to keep the arms flowing and the abrahamic war alive.

OBL wanted a Caliphate, simple as that, just as the fundy new Abrahamites who follow an old Abrahamite called jesus want the world to be under them, they all suffer from the same mental illness.
AzariLoveIran

Re: Turkey

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.

Egypt's liberals walk out, leaving Islamists to write a constitution

.
The constitution will help determine how democratic the new Egypt will be . .
.

:lol: :D :)



.
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Re: Turkey

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Tale as old as time, eh Az? Laurence part II. ;)
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Ibrahim
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:I don't know what you are talking about.
You are aware that somebody with a bruise on their forehead means that abrahamic ideology is so fundamental to their life they are prepared to hurt themselves to prove their loyalty to a invisible entity abraham the child sacrificer spoke to. people that hurt themselves continually are mentally unstable, to suggest otherwise means that oneself is unstable.
I still don't know what you are talking about. I guess you're trying to say that Libya is run by religious extremists, except that the members of the NTC aren't noted extremists, and you aren't specifying who you are talking about.

Are you aware that madrassa means "school?" Anyway it doesn't take a great deal of guts to predict further chaos in Iraq. I fail to see how this makes a continuation of dictatorial regimes preferable.
all right..abrahamite madrassa/school.
Right, so do you know the difference between a school and a training academy for guerrillas?


So you agree with me that taking out Sadam has created untold years of death in Iraq.

we will see after 20 more years of civil war in Iraq what is preferable.
Just to be clear, you are saying here that the continued rule of Saddam Hussein is preferable?


Do you have much experience being involved in civil wars and revolutions?
I can read, next you will be saying I can't say the Holocaust was bad because I wasn't there or that Custer picked the wrong gun because I wasn't actually there.
You brought up your experience, I didn't.

Which country are you claiming this is happening in? You said Syria initially, but we've corrected that. Where else do you think this is happening?
err .. no you haven't. i was talking about arms being brought in to Syria from Turkey as supported by the BBC report, as for where else this is happening, any war with NGF's (non governmental forces) gets their arms from private dealers...where do you think they get them from..under the Christmas tree?
I told you who the opposition forces in Syria were (after you asked, after you claimed they were "Wahhabis"), and that they were being supplied by Turkey. Openly and through official channels in point of fact, so shady arms dealers don't have anything to do with it.

So in your mind dictators we know were not democratic and committed documented abuses were superior to whatever followed them because, you are certain, the new regimes will be as bad or worse anyway? And that this is somehow tied to terrorism in your mind, hence your invocation of "OLB" and "Caliphate?" That is to say that the options are limited to Arabs ruled by dictators or Arabs being terrorists, with you preferring dictators.
Of course i don't like dictators, but the process by which they are removed has to come from within and be fully supported by other nations, not enforced by other nations.
There was overwhelming support for the overthrow of Mubarak, Gaddafi, and Ben Ali, and there appears to be substantial opposition to Assad (who is openly shelling civilians), so I don't understand what your objection is.


look at the way the UZ still supported Mubarak with billions of dollars even while there was people on the street, it has in no way threatened to withdraw those billions


Actually the US President and Secretary of State openly stated in numerous speeches that Mubarak should step down (which he did).

if a proper electoral process is not set up,
Again, do you dispute the validity of the Egyptian elections? International observes didn't.


giving time for a diverse opposition to develop, which there wasn't in Egypt.
Why does it matter if there was not a diverse opposition in Egypt? Are you claiming that countries must remain under the rule of dictators until they have political parties that you approve of? There were many parties in the Egyptian election, and a clear winner in an open vote.

Instead the UZ slotted right in with the fundamentalists (i need a laugh..tell me the brotherhood ain't fundies) and the arms keep flowing.


Actually military aid was suspended over human rights concerns, and is only now going to be resumed now that legitimate elections have been held, so you have your facts wrong here.
http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Det ... 0329001164
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will open the way to resuming $1.3 billion in annual military aid to Egypt that had been suspended over human rights concerns.

“Tomorrow, Secretary Clinton will certify that Egypt is meeting its obligations under its peace treaty with Israel,” a senior State Department official said in an email on Thursday.

...

The official stressed that “on the democracy side, Egypt has made more progress in 16 months than in the last 60 years,” highlighting free and fair parliamentary elections as well as the transfer of legislative authority to the new people‘s assembly.

Aid during the uprising was devoted to encouraging a democratic transition, and maintaining services during the economic disruption.

http://www.usaid.gov/locations/middle_e ... ies/egypt/
In the wake of the historic revolution in January 2011, USAID also provided direct support to non-governmental organizations and the private sector to support Egypt's economic and political transition. Two-thirds of awardees are local organizations, and 40 percent are new partners. The economic support program provided $100 million in grants to support job creation, humanitarian assistance, and poverty alleviation for those negatively affected by the recent economic downturn. The democratic support program provided $65 million for democratic development, including support for Egypt's historic elections, civic awareness, and protection of human rights.

Ironically not totally disimilar to slotting in with OBL to fight the Soviets to keep the arms flowing, seems the UZ will suck any vagina to keep the arms flowing and the abrahamic war alive.

OBL wanted a Caliphate, simple as that, just as the fundy new Abrahamites who follow an old Abrahamite called jesus want the world to be under them, they all suffer from the same mental illness.
This is incoherent and not based on any known facts.
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For Ibrahim Understanding Muslim Prayer Bruises & Infidels

Post by monster_gardener »

Ibrahim wrote:
Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:I don't know what you are talking about.
You are aware that somebody with a bruise on their forehead means that abrahamic ideology is so fundamental to their life they are prepared to hurt themselves to prove their loyalty to a invisible entity abraham the child sacrificer spoke to. people that hurt themselves continually are mentally unstable, to suggest otherwise means that oneself is unstable.
I still don't know what you are talking about. I guess you're trying to say that Libya is run by religious extremists, except that the members of the NTC aren't noted extremists, and you aren't specifying who you are talking about.

Are you aware that madrassa means "school?" Anyway it doesn't take a great deal of guts to predict further chaos in Iraq. I fail to see how this makes a continuation of dictatorial regimes preferable.
all right..abrahamite madrassa/school.
Right, so do you know the difference between a school and a training academy for guerrillas?


So you agree with me that taking out Sadam has created untold years of death in Iraq.

we will see after 20 more years of civil war in Iraq what is preferable.
Just to be clear, you are saying here that the continued rule of Saddam Hussein is preferable?


Do you have much experience being involved in civil wars and revolutions?
I can read, next you will be saying I can't say the Holocaust was bad because I wasn't there or that Custer picked the wrong gun because I wasn't actually there.
You brought up your experience, I didn't.

Which country are you claiming this is happening in? You said Syria initially, but we've corrected that. Where else do you think this is happening?
err .. no you haven't. i was talking about arms being brought in to Syria from Turkey as supported by the BBC report, as for where else this is happening, any war with NGF's (non governmental forces) gets their arms from private dealers...where do you think they get them from..under the Christmas tree?
I told you who the opposition forces in Syria were (after you asked, after you claimed they were "Wahhabis"), and that they were being supplied by Turkey. Openly and through official channels in point of fact, so shady arms dealers don't have anything to do with it.

So in your mind dictators we know were not democratic and committed documented abuses were superior to whatever followed them because, you are certain, the new regimes will be as bad or worse anyway? And that this is somehow tied to terrorism in your mind, hence your invocation of "OLB" and "Caliphate?" That is to say that the options are limited to Arabs ruled by dictators or Arabs being terrorists, with you preferring dictators.
Of course i don't like dictators, but the process by which they are removed has to come from within and be fully supported by other nations, not enforced by other nations.
There was overwhelming support for the overthrow of Mubarak, Gaddafi, and Ben Ali, and there appears to be substantial opposition to Assad (who is openly shelling civilians), so I don't understand what your objection is.


look at the way the UZ still supported Mubarak with billions of dollars even while there was people on the street, it has in no way threatened to withdraw those billions


Actually the US President and Secretary of State openly stated in numerous speeches that Mubarak should step down (which he did).

if a proper electoral process is not set up,
Again, do you dispute the validity of the Egyptian elections? International observes didn't.


giving time for a diverse opposition to develop, which there wasn't in Egypt.
Why does it matter if there was not a diverse opposition in Egypt? Are you claiming that countries must remain under the rule of dictators until they have political parties that you approve of? There were many parties in the Egyptian election, and a clear winner in an open vote.

Instead the UZ slotted right in with the fundamentalists (i need a laugh..tell me the brotherhood ain't fundies) and the arms keep flowing.


Actually military aid was suspended over human rights concerns, and is only now going to be resumed now that legitimate elections have been held, so you have your facts wrong here.
http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Det ... 0329001164
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will open the way to resuming $1.3 billion in annual military aid to Egypt that had been suspended over human rights concerns.

“Tomorrow, Secretary Clinton will certify that Egypt is meeting its obligations under its peace treaty with Israel,” a senior State Department official said in an email on Thursday.

...

The official stressed that “on the democracy side, Egypt has made more progress in 16 months than in the last 60 years,” highlighting free and fair parliamentary elections as well as the transfer of legislative authority to the new people‘s assembly.

Aid during the uprising was devoted to encouraging a democratic transition, and maintaining services during the economic disruption.

http://www.usaid.gov/locations/middle_e ... ies/egypt/
In the wake of the historic revolution in January 2011, USAID also provided direct support to non-governmental organizations and the private sector to support Egypt's economic and political transition. Two-thirds of awardees are local organizations, and 40 percent are new partners. The economic support program provided $100 million in grants to support job creation, humanitarian assistance, and poverty alleviation for those negatively affected by the recent economic downturn. The democratic support program provided $65 million for democratic development, including support for Egypt's historic elections, civic awareness, and protection of human rights.

Ironically not totally disimilar to slotting in with OBL to fight the Soviets to keep the arms flowing, seems the UZ will suck any vagina to keep the arms flowing and the abrahamic war alive.

OBL wanted a Caliphate, simple as that, just as the fundy new Abrahamites who follow an old Abrahamite called jesus want the world to be under them, they all suffer from the same mental illness.
This is incoherent and not based on any known facts.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

Perhaps I can help you with understanding some of this.

Going to try to do one subject at a time though I may digress briefly

Will make the sacrifice of not using my beloved lovely emoticons............ Would that we had more.........

And damping down overt humor though you may find some dry examples in the text of this short and hopefully coherent lecture .....

No guarantees, I am a Monstrous Monster Gardener Fool...........

Note: Not promising to do any further lectures after this but not promising not to do so either..........

NOTE: Carbizene is invited to correct any statements I made concerning him. My apologies in advance for any inaccuracies or presumption.

For Ibrahim: Understanding Muslim Prayer Bruises/Scars and Infidels
Ibrahim wrote:
Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:I don't know what you are talking about.
You are aware that somebody with a bruise on their forehead means that abrahamic ideology is so fundamental to their life they are prepared to hurt themselves to prove their loyalty to a invisible entity abraham the child sacrificer spoke to. people that hurt themselves continually are mentally unstable, to suggest otherwise means that oneself is unstable.
I still don't know what you are talking about. I guess you're trying to say that Libya is run by religious extremists, except that the members of the NTC aren't noted extremists, and you aren't specifying who you are talking about.
1. Carbizene is referring to the "Prayer Bruise" or "Prayer Scar" that is produced when especially "devout"/fanatic Muslims bash their heads on hard surfaces as part of Muslim prayers...

2. The official name for such a prayer scar is "zabiba/zebiba/zebibah ("raisin" in Arabic).........

a. In photographs, a prayer scar can appear to be a "hole in the head" which can occasion derisive humor from Infidels like me............

3. The current most famous owner of a prayer scar is Ayman al-Zawahiri who is the head Al Queda, the most infamous Salafi Jihadist terrorist organization in the world which has caused massive loss of life and property both directly by flying manned cruise missiles packed with infidel hostages into occupied commercial and governmental buildings on Sept. 11, 2001 and indirectly by thus provoking said infidels into a war in which many Muslims have died about which you frequently complain.......... Also sundry other terrorists attacks by Al Qued before and since 911.

Image


a. This is a MAJOR factor in causing sporting a prayer scar on your forehead to have an effect on Infidels like Carbizene and I, similar to the effect seeing a Nazi Swastikas & SS tattoos on a German head would have for a Jew or people friendly to Jews ......I feel it too......

b. At best seeing a prayer scar/bruise produces a feeling of EXTREME wariness.......... Is this man/woman, a religious fanatic nut case well advanced on his or her way to beating his or her brains out for Allah or at least into a subdural hematoma?.........

4. So when Carbizene or I see ME/Arab revolutionaries sporting prayer scars/bruises, we wonder if bad as the current leader of the country in the throes of revolution is, if things are going to get even worse if prayer scar sporting Zawahiri clones get in power.

a. Given the history of the ME, IMVHO, this is NOT an unreasonable fear...... things often go from bad to worse... Shah to Khomenei........ the late King of Afgahanisant to the Soviets to the vile Taliban/Al Queda..........

b. This fear is NOT allayed when we see Western leaders calling for such overthrows...... We have grave doubts our Western "leaders", both their competence as with the example of Bush W. and/or their motives (the leaders of Britain and France)......

Hoping that this has been of use........

Resources below
A prayer bump or prayer scar, also known as a zabiba/zebiba/zebibah ("raisin" in Arabic), is a mark on the forehead of a Muslim, apparently due to the friction generated from the contact of the forehead with the prayer mat. Islam generally requires its adherents to pray five times a day (known as salah), which involves kneeling on a prayer mat and touching the ground with one's forehead. When done for extended periods of time, a prayer bump may develop. Some Muslims may consider the presence of a prayer bump to be a sign of religious dedication and piety.[1] Some Muslims also believe that on the day of judgement, this bump will particularly fluoresce an immense white light.[2]

The prayer bump can take the form of a discolouration of the skin, caused by repeated chafing and the build-up of callus. In extreme cases, the callus can be thick enough to create a real bump that protrudes from the forehead. They may also develop due to frequent prayer on hard surfaces such as stone floors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_scar

Worrisome news from Egypt.........

A practising Muslim's forehead is meant to touch the ground at least 34 times a day - in symbolic submission to God's will - which could add up to more than a million prostrations in a lifetime.


The relentless rise of political Islam over the past few decades has succeed in rolling back significant parts of Egypt's secular tradition
But over the past few decades, as more and more Egyptians turned to religion, the zebiba began appearing among young men as the veil did among young women.

But not every Muslim gets one, and opinions vary as to where it comes from. It could something to do with skin-type, or created artificially, or come from particular kinds of matting. Others believe it is a gift from God.

Many young Egyptians I asked believe some kind of light will emanate from the prayer mark on their foreheads on the Day of Judgment, marking them out as truly devout.

One of Egypt's greatest living and most popular poets, Abdelrahman al-Abnoudi, has another explanation - in times of crises people turn either to drugs or to religion.

Egyptians have always been religious, he adds, but since being religious has also become fashionable, people now press their foreheads against the ground a little harder to acquire the appearance of a devout Muslim.

Dalia Ziada of the American Islamic Congress - an non-governmental organisation based in Cairo - says some men deliberately pray on straw mats, and rub their foreheads until they eventually develop the zebiba.
"I was driving home one evening and had to stop next to a girls' school. Suddenly the girls - all of whom were veiled - surrounded the car and start banging on the windows and screaming: 'Infidel! Apostate!' I was terrified."

Dr Sayyed al-Qimni, one of Egypt's best known liberal writers and historians, says society has been hijacked by a very conservative brand of religion, which he characterises as Saudi Wahhabi Islam.

"There are now 13,000 religious schools [in Egypt] that produce terrorists, like the Taliban madrassas in Pakistan. At religious schools they teach children that Muslims who do not pray should be killed."
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7469221.stm

Note: You seemed to dismiss Madrassas as just being "schools" in your post.... see above...... Schools that teach what? Peace? Agriculture and Mining?

Or maybe hate and murder as bad as you accuse Infidels of.........

Care to reconsider??????

I often do.......

Or would you like to see Egyptian Madrassas teach Religious Policemen wannabes how to harass patrons of beauty salons and barber shops and the populace in general...

Sigh.......

This has happened here before........... St. Cyril and the vile Nitrian monks vs. that pagan natural philosopher lady Hypatia..........

Hard to resist wishing Hypatia had had a baker's dozen of hand grenades and used them effectively on the "monks" or a bodyguard with an fully loaded AK47 riding shotgun in her chariot....... Things might have been different ............. and a better timeline...........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia#Death

NOTE: You are right, Ibrahim......... Sometimes I do have violent views/visions....... but not just about murderous Muslim miscreants..... also their Christian counterparts... both past (Alexandria) and possibly present and future.... "Scary Gary" North and the Handmaid R'US types....... There are others........

Probably a sin/or karmic obscuration at least......... Need to work on it........... *

Not sure that blogging here always helps but talking with Azari has prompted me to push for peace with Persia even though I wonder if I am taking a big risk both for myself and my Israeli friends........

*Am more of a more of a Pigsy than a Tripitaka......Probably a Pigsy ..... maybe a Monkey but probably not.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhu_Bajie


Note: A better photo of infamous Zawahiri and his infamous prayer bump......
0_61_zawahri_ayman.jpg
0_61_zawahri_ayman.jpg (9.26 KiB) Viewed 1333 times
Last edited by monster_gardener on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
AzariLoveIran

Re: For Ibrahim Understanding Muslim Prayer Bruises & Infide

Post by AzariLoveIran »

monster_gardener wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:I don't know what you are talking about.
You are aware that somebody with a bruise on their forehead means that abrahamic ideology is so fundamental to their life they are prepared to hurt themselves to prove their loyalty to a invisible entity abraham the child sacrificer spoke to. people that hurt themselves continually are mentally unstable, to suggest otherwise means that oneself is unstable.
I still don't know what you are talking about. I guess you're trying to say that Libya is run by religious extremists, except that the members of the NTC aren't noted extremists, and you aren't specifying who you are talking about.

Are you aware that madrassa means "school?" Anyway it doesn't take a great deal of guts to predict further chaos in Iraq. I fail to see how this makes a continuation of dictatorial regimes preferable.
all right..abrahamite madrassa/school.
Right, so do you know the difference between a school and a training academy for guerrillas?


So you agree with me that taking out Sadam has created untold years of death in Iraq.

we will see after 20 more years of civil war in Iraq what is preferable.
Just to be clear, you are saying here that the continued rule of Saddam Hussein is preferable?


Do you have much experience being involved in civil wars and revolutions?
I can read, next you will be saying I can't say the Holocaust was bad because I wasn't there or that Custer picked the wrong gun because I wasn't actually there.
You brought up your experience, I didn't.

Which country are you claiming this is happening in? You said Syria initially, but we've corrected that. Where else do you think this is happening?
err .. no you haven't. i was talking about arms being brought in to Syria from Turkey as supported by the BBC report, as for where else this is happening, any war with NGF's (non governmental forces) gets their arms from private dealers...where do you think they get them from..under the Christmas tree?
I told you who the opposition forces in Syria were (after you asked, after you claimed they were "Wahhabis"), and that they were being supplied by Turkey. Openly and through official channels in point of fact, so shady arms dealers don't have anything to do with it.

So in your mind dictators we know were not democratic and committed documented abuses were superior to whatever followed them because, you are certain, the new regimes will be as bad or worse anyway? And that this is somehow tied to terrorism in your mind, hence your invocation of "OLB" and "Caliphate?" That is to say that the options are limited to Arabs ruled by dictators or Arabs being terrorists, with you preferring dictators.
Of course i don't like dictators, but the process by which they are removed has to come from within and be fully supported by other nations, not enforced by other nations.
There was overwhelming support for the overthrow of Mubarak, Gaddafi, and Ben Ali, and there appears to be substantial opposition to Assad (who is openly shelling civilians), so I don't understand what your objection is.


look at the way the UZ still supported Mubarak with billions of dollars even while there was people on the street, it has in no way threatened to withdraw those billions


Actually the US President and Secretary of State openly stated in numerous speeches that Mubarak should step down (which he did).

if a proper electoral process is not set up,
Again, do you dispute the validity of the Egyptian elections? International observes didn't.


giving time for a diverse opposition to develop, which there wasn't in Egypt.
Why does it matter if there was not a diverse opposition in Egypt? Are you claiming that countries must remain under the rule of dictators until they have political parties that you approve of? There were many parties in the Egyptian election, and a clear winner in an open vote.

Instead the UZ slotted right in with the fundamentalists (i need a laugh..tell me the brotherhood ain't fundies) and the arms keep flowing.


Actually military aid was suspended over human rights concerns, and is only now going to be resumed now that legitimate elections have been held, so you have your facts wrong here.
http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Det ... 0329001164
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will open the way to resuming $1.3 billion in annual military aid to Egypt that had been suspended over human rights concerns.

“Tomorrow, Secretary Clinton will certify that Egypt is meeting its obligations under its peace treaty with Israel,” a senior State Department official said in an email on Thursday.

...

The official stressed that “on the democracy side, Egypt has made more progress in 16 months than in the last 60 years,” highlighting free and fair parliamentary elections as well as the transfer of legislative authority to the new people‘s assembly.

Aid during the uprising was devoted to encouraging a democratic transition, and maintaining services during the economic disruption.

http://www.usaid.gov/locations/middle_e ... ies/egypt/
In the wake of the historic revolution in January 2011, USAID also provided direct support to non-governmental organizations and the private sector to support Egypt's economic and political transition. Two-thirds of awardees are local organizations, and 40 percent are new partners. The economic support program provided $100 million in grants to support job creation, humanitarian assistance, and poverty alleviation for those negatively affected by the recent economic downturn. The democratic support program provided $65 million for democratic development, including support for Egypt's historic elections, civic awareness, and protection of human rights.

Ironically not totally disimilar to slotting in with OBL to fight the Soviets to keep the arms flowing, seems the UZ will suck any vagina to keep the arms flowing and the abrahamic war alive.

OBL wanted a Caliphate, simple as that, just as the fundy new Abrahamites who follow an old Abrahamite called jesus want the world to be under them, they all suffer from the same mental illness.
This is incoherent and not based on any known facts.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

Perhaps I can help you with understanding some of this.

Going to try to do one subject at a time though I may digress briefly

Will make the sacrifice of not using my beloved lovely emoticons............ Would that we had more.........

And damping down overt humor though you may find some dry examples in the text of this short and hopefully coherent lecture .....

No guarantees, I am a Monstrous Monster Gardener Fool...........

Note: Not promising to do any further lectures after this but not promising not to do so either..........

For Ibrahim: Understanding Muslim Prayer Bruises/Scars and Infidels
Ibrahim wrote:
Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:I don't know what you are talking about.
You are aware that somebody with a bruise on their forehead means that abrahamic ideology is so fundamental to their life they are prepared to hurt themselves to prove their loyalty to a invisible entity abraham the child sacrificer spoke to. people that hurt themselves continually are mentally unstable, to suggest otherwise means that oneself is unstable.
I still don't know what you are talking about. I guess you're trying to say that Libya is run by religious extremists, except that the members of the NTC aren't noted extremists, and you aren't specifying who you are talking about.
1. Carbizene is referring to the "Prayer Bruise" or "Prayer Scar" that is produced when especially "devout"/fanatic Muslims bash their heads on hard surfaces as part of Muslim prayers...

2. The official name for such a prayer scar is "zabiba/zebiba/zebibah ("raisin" in Arabic).........

a. In photographs, a prayer scar can appear to be a "hole in the head" which can occasion derisive humor from Infidels like me............

3. The current most famous owner of a prayer scar is Ayman al-Zawahiri who is the head Al Queda, the most infamous Salafi Jihadist terrorist organization in the world which has caused massive loss of life and property both directly by flying manned cruise missiles packed with infidel hostages into occupied commercial and governmental buildings on Sept. 11, 2001 and indirectly by thus provoking said infidels into a war in which many Muslims have died about which you frequently complain.......... Also sundry other terrorists attacks by Al Qued before and since 911.

Image


a. This is a MAJOR factor in causing sporting a prayer scar on your forehead to have an effect on Infidels like Carbizene and I, similar to the effect seeing a Nazi Swastikas & SS tattoos on a German head would have for a Jew or people friendly to Jews ......I feel it too......

b. At best seeing a prayer scar/bruise produces a feeling of EXTREME wariness.......... Is this man/woman, a religious fanatic nut case well advanced on his or her way to beating his or her brains out for Allah or at least into a subdural hematoma?.........

4. So when Carbizene or I see ME/Arab revolutionaries sporting prayer scars/bruises, we wonder if bad as the current leader of the country in the throes of revolution is, if things are going to get even worse if prayer scar sporting Zawahiri clones get in power.

a. Given the history of the ME, IMVHO, this is NOT an unreasonable fear...... things often go from bad to worse... Shah to Khomenei........ the late King of Afgahanisant to the Soviets to the vile Taliban/Al Queda..........

b. This fear is NOT allayed when we see Western leaders calling for such overthrows...... We have grave doubts our Western "leaders", both their competence as with the example of Bush W. and/or their motives (the leaders of Britain and France)......

Hoping that this has been of use........

Resources below
A prayer bump or prayer scar, also known as a zabiba/zebiba/zebibah ("raisin" in Arabic), is a mark on the forehead of a Muslim, apparently due to the friction generated from the contact of the forehead with the prayer mat. Islam generally requires its adherents to pray five times a day (known as salah), which involves kneeling on a prayer mat and touching the ground with one's forehead. When done for extended periods of time, a prayer bump may develop. Some Muslims may consider the presence of a prayer bump to be a sign of religious dedication and piety.[1] Some Muslims also believe that on the day of judgement, this bump will particularly fluoresce an immense white light.[2]

The prayer bump can take the form of a discolouration of the skin, caused by repeated chafing and the build-up of callus. In extreme cases, the callus can be thick enough to create a real bump that protrudes from the forehead. They may also develop due to frequent prayer on hard surfaces such as stone floors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_scar

Worrisome news from Egypt.........

A practising Muslim's forehead is meant to touch the ground at least 34 times a day - in symbolic submission to God's will - which could add up to more than a million prostrations in a lifetime.


The relentless rise of political Islam over the past few decades has succeed in rolling back significant parts of Egypt's secular tradition
But over the past few decades, as more and more Egyptians turned to religion, the zebiba began appearing among young men as the veil did among young women.

But not every Muslim gets one, and opinions vary as to where it comes from. It could something to do with skin-type, or created artificially, or come from particular kinds of matting. Others believe it is a gift from God.

Many young Egyptians I asked believe some kind of light will emanate from the prayer mark on their foreheads on the Day of Judgment, marking them out as truly devout.

One of Egypt's greatest living and most popular poets, Abdelrahman al-Abnoudi, has another explanation - in times of crises people turn either to drugs or to religion.

Egyptians have always been religious, he adds, but since being religious has also become fashionable, people now press their foreheads against the ground a little harder to acquire the appearance of a devout Muslim.

Dalia Ziada of the American Islamic Congress - an non-governmental organisation based in Cairo - says some men deliberately pray on straw mats, and rub their foreheads until they eventually develop the zebiba.
"I was driving home one evening and had to stop next to a girls' school. Suddenly the girls - all of whom were veiled - surrounded the car and start banging on the windows and screaming: 'Infidel! Apostate!' I was terrified."

Dr Sayyed al-Qimni, one of Egypt's best known liberal writers and historians, says society has been hijacked by a very conservative brand of religion, which he characterises as Saudi Wahhabi Islam.

"There are now 13,000 religious schools [in Egypt] that produce terrorists, like the Taliban madrassas in Pakistan. At religious schools they teach children that Muslims who do not pray should be killed."
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7469221.stm

Note: You seemed to dismiss Madrassas as just being "schools" in your post.... see above...... Schools that teach what? Peace? Agriculture and Mining?

Or maybe hate and murder as bad as you accuse Infidels of.........

Care to reconsider??????

I often do.......

Or would you like to see Egyptian Madrassas teach Religious Policemen wannabes how to harass patrons of beauty salons and barber shops and the populace in general...

Sigh.......

This has happened here before........... St. Cyril and the vile Nitrian monks vs. that pagan natural philosopher lady Hypatia..........

Hard to resist wishing Hypatia had had a baker's dozen of hand grenades and used them effectively on the "monks" or a bodyguard with an fully loaded AK47 riding shotgun in her chariot....... Things might have been different ............. and a better timeline...........

You are right, Ibrahim......... Sometimes I do have violent views/visions....... but not just about murderous Muslim miscreants..... also their Christian counterparts... both past (Alexandria) and possibly present and future.... "Scary Gary" North and the Handmaid R'US types....... There are others........

Probably a sin/or karmic obscuration at least......... Need to work on it...........

Not sure that blogging here always helps but talking with Azari has prompted me to push for peace with Persia even though I wonder if I am taking a big risk both for myself and my Israeli friends........

Note: A better photo of infamous Zawahiri and his infamous prayer bump......
0_61_zawahri_ayman.jpg
.


Monster ,

You packing the donkey from wrong end

West killing all those Taliban leaders, Ossama, Zawahiri and and and

Can you cure cancer when you cut a tumor ?

NO

Zionist assassinating, last 60 yrs, "the number 2 Palestinian leader & terrorist" .. wonder how many # 2 Pali terrorist exists

look, Monster

Zawahiri is not leader of a Mexican drug Cartel, killing him to stop the cartel

Zawahiri represent a school of thinking

and

that school must be beaten by west

if not

there are millions and millions that will replace Zawahiri

You guys, must address the issues Zawahiri is propagating

west must rectify the fertile ground that Zawahiri is planting on

Hammas, the Wahhabi Islamic arm of Pali, took shape only because secular Arafat hit the wall

Western policy is nourishing Zawahiri school, is oil on Zawahiri fire

Western policy is the reason for extremist like Zawahiri having traction with millions

funny part is

West, actively, replacing secular leaders with Wahhabi Islamist

sounds crazy, but, as MIC (Military Industrial Complex) profits Billions fighting Zawahiri, it would make perfectly sense if Zawahiri would be working for MIC.

Hmmmm


.
User avatar
monster_gardener
Posts: 5334
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:36 am
Location: Trolla. Land of upside down trees and tomatos........

Break and Leave vs. Winning Hearts & Minds.

Post by monster_gardener »

AzariLoveIran wrote:
Monster ,

You packing the donkey from wrong end

West killing all those Taliban leaders, Ossama, Zawahiri and and and

Can you cure cancer when you cut a tumor ?

NO

Zionist assassinating, last 60 yrs, "the number 2 Palestinian leader & terrorist" .. wonder how many # 2 Pali terrorist exists

look, Monster

Zawahiri is not leader of a Mexican drug Cartel, killing him to stop the cartel

Zawahiri represent a school of thinking

and

that school must be beaten by west

if not

there are millions and millions that will replace Zawahiri

You guys, must address the issues Zawahiri is propagating

west must rectify the fertile ground that Zawahiri is planting on

Hammas, the Wahhabi Islamic arm of Pali, took shape only because secular Arafat hit the wall

Western policy is nourishing Zawahiri school, is oil on Zawahiri fire

Western policy is the reason for extremist like Zawahiri having traction with millions

funny part is

West, actively, replacing secular leaders with Wahhabi Islamist

sounds crazy, but, as MIC (Military Industrial Complex) profits Billions fighting Zawahiri, it would make perfectly sense if Zawahiri would be working for MIC.

Hmmmm


.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari
You packing the donkey from wrong end
We call that "ack-basswards" and an anagram there of ;)
Can you cure cancer when you cut a tumor ?

NO
In my experience, yes....... know a woman free of Breast cancer for about 20 years after a mastectomy surgery............
Zionist assassinating, last 60 yrs, "the number 2 Palestinian leader & terrorist" .. wonder how many # 2 Pali terrorist exists
Or #3s for Al Queda ;) :twisted: :lol: :(
Zawahiri represent a school of thinking

and

that school must be beaten by west
Ideally but AIUI Islam is one of the most resistant malignant memes in existence.....

Has power meme antibodies...... kills apostate cells ........ kills mutant heretic cells....

Sometimes I think internet pron ;) may be one of the best antibiotics........ IIRC Pakistan may be a good example......
You guys, must address the issues Zawahiri is propagating

west must rectify the fertile ground that Zawahiri is planting on
If we are nice, they take that as their due.......... jizya by another name.......

If we ignore them, they plot against US

"It's Razzia Time, Muslim Bros! :twisted: those Merican dogs stopped paying jizya after we MoBros made the Russian Bears run" ..........

In my experience, harsh and quick works best......... Andy and the Pirates :wink: Break and Leave until they are unable to ever do it again or decide other infidels are easier prey..... or ideally decide that some other tribe/ off brand of Islam are really not true Muslims and start merrily murdering them rather than us infidel........
Western policy is the reason for extremist like Zawahiri having traction with millions
Naw, even if true, it's just a convenient excuse. When we/US were new, weak and had done them no harm, they still found reason to prey on US.........
West, actively, replacing secular leaders with Wahhabi Islamist
In effect if not intent.......... Once reason I talk about the recent crew of U.S. Present-Dunces. ;)

sounds crazy, but, as MIC (Military Industrial Complex) profits Billions fighting Zawahiri, it would make perfectly sense if Zawahiri would be working for MIC.
Even if true, the money for that nonsense is running out....

Need it for essential defense and maybe :) friendly Space Race with China, Russia, Iran, Japan etc...... :)

But will probably spend it on Political Pork and Pensions for Federal Mis-Leaders....... Congress Critters, Present Dunces etc............ :(

Unless Iran or China etc. start on it............ :D

Hope I am wrong........... Maybe we can get a CANDU reactor to burn the nuke waste...............


As I have been saying lately...... Better to let Iran or China handle the Afghans..... Either will handle them better in their own way than we/US have....

Russian Bears might have done a better job, if we had let them............ ;) :twisted:

I worry that you Pomegranates may be too kind and get bit........ Afghans have done that to Pomegranates before IIRC..........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
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Carbizene
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:41 am

Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

Ibrahim wrote: I still don't know what you are talking about. I guess you're trying to say that Libya is run by religious extremists, except that the members of the NTC aren't noted extremists, and you aren't specifying who you are talking about.
I already did specify. can't be arsed repeating.
Right, so do you know the difference between a school and a training academy for guerrillas?
refer to thread on weatern child soldiers regarding my ideas on the intersection between academic and military training in Abrahamic schools.
Just to be clear, you are saying here that the continued rule of Saddam Hussein is preferable?
you don't want to go down that road as you lose, as I now say "so you approve of the UZ invading Sovereign nations on lies?" my pawn moves to be queened, check mate.
You brought up your experience, I didn't.
true, but you brought up semantic flim-flammery.

I told you who the opposition forces in Syria were (after you asked, after you claimed they were "Wahhabis"), and that they were being supplied by Turkey. Openly and through official channels in point of fact, so shady arms dealers don't have anything to do with it.
show me evidence that Turkey is officialy supplying arms, if they were Syria would probably declare war on Turkey.
There was overwhelming support for the overthrow of Mubarak, Gaddafi, and Ben Ali, and there appears to be substantial opposition to Assad (who is openly shelling civilians), so I don't understand what your objection is.
I have no problem with overthrowing dictators, I do have a problem with fundies replacing them.
Actually the US President and Secretary of State openly stated in numerous speeches that Mubarak should step down (which he did).
not to start with. only when they realised the tide had turn did they flip their yellow belly's.
Again, do you dispute the validity of the Egyptian elections? International observes didn't.
International observers are only there to observe the technical running, not the democratic culture.
Why does it matter if there was not a diverse opposition in Egypt? Are you claiming that countries must remain under the rule of dictators until they have political parties that you approve of? There were many parties in the Egyptian election, and a clear winner in an open vote.
There can be hundreds of parties but if they are all disorganised they don't mean lavender.
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will open the way to resuming $1.3 billion in annual military aid to Egypt that had been suspended over human rights concerns.
...
Which bit of the UZ giving $1.3 billion annually for arms to the Muslim brotherhood sounds like a good idea to you?
This is incoherent and not based on any known facts.
So OBL did not want a Caliphate and the Muslim brotherhood don't want a Caliphate? Seventh Day Adventists, Protestants, don't want the analogous?
Ibrahim
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 am

Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote: I still don't know what you are talking about. I guess you're trying to say that Libya is run by religious extremists, except that the members of the NTC aren't noted extremists, and you aren't specifying who you are talking about.
I already did specify. can't be arsed repeating.
False. You never specified which individuals you think are "running" Libya. I suspect you don't know.


Right, so do you know the difference between a school and a training academy for guerrillas?
refer to thread on weatern child soldiers regarding my ideas on the intersection between academic and military training in Abrahamic schools.
In which case it wouldn't matter which school they went to, all schools double as military training, and the comment was therefore moot.


Just to be clear, you are saying here that the continued rule of Saddam Hussein is preferable?
you don't want to go down that road as you lose, as I now say "so you approve of the UZ invading Sovereign nations on lies?" my pawn moves to be queened, check mate.
This sentence in incoherent. It was a pretty simple question, "yes" or "no" is good, but if you must dodge the question do it a little more elegantly.

You brought up your experience, I didn't.
true, but you brought up semantic flim-flammery.
Such as? My comments have been much more precise and factually accurate than yours.


I told you who the opposition forces in Syria were (after you asked, after you claimed they were "Wahhabis"), and that they were being supplied by Turkey. Openly and through official channels in point of fact, so shady arms dealers don't have anything to do with it.
show me evidence that Turkey is officialy supplying arms,


I said "supplied," and have previously explained to you that the FSA have arms, they deserted with them and took more. They require support equipment.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/world ... ebels.html
NYT wrote:BEIRUT — Turkey and the United States plan to provide “nonlethal” assistance, like communications equipment and medical supplies, directly to opposition groups inside Syria, and will urge other allies to do so as well, the White House deputy national security adviser said on Sunday, after President Obama met with the prime minister of Turkey at a nuclear security conference in Seoul, South Korea.


if they were Syria would probably declare war on Turkey.
I think Assad is having enough problems with the FSA without provoking a conflict with a larger, stronger, politically unified nation.




There was overwhelming support for the overthrow of Mubarak, Gaddafi, and Ben Ali, and there appears to be substantial opposition to Assad (who is openly shelling civilians), so I don't understand what your objection is.
I have no problem with overthrowing dictators, I do have a problem with fundies replacing them.
What if the majority of the people in the a given country are "fundies?" (excusing your flippant use of the term for the moment) Assuming a country was ruled by a brutal dictator, but the majority of the ordinary population were "fundies," what would you want to happen?


Actually the US President and Secretary of State openly stated in numerous speeches that Mubarak should step down (which he did).
not to start with. only when they realised the tide had turn did they flip their yellow belly's.
You mean when they realized that the vast majority of the Egyptian population wanted Mubarak gone? Good time to flip flop if you ask me. Or is it your position that the US government should continue to support a dictator just because another administration started doing it decades ago?

Again, do you dispute the validity of the Egyptian elections? International observes didn't.
International observers are only there to observe the technical running, not the democratic culture.
So then you concede that Egypt held an open and free election, in which votes were not coerced, and were properly counted, forming a representative assembly. You simply don't like the outcome.

Why does it matter if there was not a diverse opposition in Egypt? Are you claiming that countries must remain under the rule of dictators until they have political parties that you approve of? There were many parties in the Egyptian election, and a clear winner in an open vote.
There can be hundreds of parties but if they are all disorganised they don't mean lavender.
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will open the way to resuming $1.3 billion in annual military aid to Egypt that had been suspended over human rights concerns.
...
Which bit of the UZ giving $1.3 billion annually for arms to the Muslim brotherhood sounds like a good idea to you?
I provided the links to correct your erroneous description of events, but anyway....

What do you think the Muslim Brotherhood spends most of its time doing? %90 of their pre-revolution activities involved providing basic social services to the Egyptian poor, which explains there popularity and subsequent electoral success more than claims of ideological lockstep among Egyptian voters. The other %10 was mostly fighting the Mubarak regime, which also seems pretty popular.


This is incoherent and not based on any known facts.
So OBL did not want a Caliphate and the Muslim brotherhood don't want a Caliphate? Seventh Day Adventists, Protestants, don't want the analogous?
The Muslim Brotherhood does not "want a Caliphate," according to their writings and statements. They want to institute religious law as state law (i.e. theocracy) via democratic elections if possible, and protest movements if not. Bin Laden was a member of an organization committed to killing civilians and establishing an ill-defined global theocracy via force.
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

To understand the Brotherhood I look no further than Qutb:

"The American girl is well acquainted with her body's seductive capacity. She knows it lies in the face, and in expressive eyes, and thirsty lips. She knows seductiveness lies in the round breasts, the full buttocks, and in the shapely thighs, sleek legs — and she shows all this and does not hide it."

To quote him from 1949, anybody who has a problem with Womens bodies is a pervert thus a fortiori: an ancient code of Law stretching back to a time when the Abrahamic Ideology had not become ubiquitous meaning any statements made after a wrong statement are void.
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Re: Turkey

Post by noddy »

qutb should have been a mills n boon writer with saucy prose like that.
ultracrepidarian
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

Qutb, in launching his anarchistic odes to freedom, means to say that, under his proposed resurrected Islamic Caliphate, human beings will no longer be tyrannously ruled by other human beings, but only by God, as interpreted by God’s representatives.
http://www.butterfliesandwheels.org/201 ... caliphate/
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

noddy wrote:qutb should have been a mills n boon writer with saucy prose like that.
lol..yah know he just couldn't help coping an eyeful..all for a greater understanding of the devil of course.
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Turkey may owe Israel thanks

Post by monster_gardener »

Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.
Ibrahim wrote:
if they were Syria would probably declare war on Turkey.
I think Assad is having enough problems with the FSA without provoking a conflict with a larger, stronger, politically unified nation.
I quite agree, Ibrahim.

Assad/Syria, as it is currently armed, would be nutso to attack Turkey....

The Muslim Brotherhood oops ;) I mean rebels are probably improving their prayer scars ;) to try to make that happen........

BUT

What would Assad do if he now had the Nukes the Nasty Norks were helping him build..........

AND

Which Israel knocked out of operation...........

MAYBE ;)

sometimes Aerial vandalism can be a good thing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Orchard

To be fair, if Assad had nukes and threatened Turkey, that would probably have brought in NATO......... but in the kerfuffle Turkey might have ended up missing Ankara and/or other Turkish cities.....

Depending on what type of missiles and how the wind blew, much of the old ME/Arab/Israeli problem could have been gone.... :shock: :evil:

World could have worse problems than now.... Chaos in general........Refugees in the millions ...... Lead lined Burkas etc..... ME land with Cherynobyl property values..........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Outrageous... Men and Women dancing together... in Public!!!

Post by monster_gardener »

Carbizene wrote:To understand the Brotherhood I look no further than Qutb:

"The American girl is well acquainted with her body's seductive capacity. She knows it lies in the face, and in expressive eyes, and thirsty lips. She knows seductiveness lies in the round breasts, the full buttocks, and in the shapely thighs, sleek legs — and she shows all this and does not hide it."

To quote him from 1949, anybody who has a problem with Womens bodies is a pervert thus a fortiori: an ancient code of Law stretching back to a time when the Abrahamic Ideology had not become ubiquitous meaning any statements made after a wrong statement are void.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Carbizene.

It gets better if you know the background... While he was with uz in exile in the US, Qutb had been invited to a Latter Day Saint/Mormon Church Dance...He was shocked :shock: and outraged :o to see men and women dancing together in public :shock: !
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:To understand the Brotherhood I look no further than Qutb:
That's a good place to start in studying its history, but a political party or organization can change over time.

"The American girl is well acquainted with her body's seductive capacity. She knows it lies in the face, and in expressive eyes, and thirsty lips. She knows seductiveness lies in the round breasts, the full buttocks, and in the shapely thighs, sleek legs — and she shows all this and does not hide it."

To quote him from 1949, anybody who has a problem with Womens bodies is a pervert thus a fortiori: an ancient code of Law stretching back to a time when the Abrahamic Ideology had not become ubiquitous meaning any statements made after a wrong statement are void.
Don't really understand what you're arguing here. Qtub is a prude who thinks western women dress like prostitutes. If he then said "water is wet, the sky is blue" would those statements be wrong?

Anyway none of this proves or even argue that the Muslim Brotherhood is analogous to Al Qaeda, as was your claim.




noddy wrote:qutb should have been a mills n boon writer with saucy prose like that.
Qtub's wide-eyes shock and horror at jazz-age American society is basically hilarious to the modern reader. He sounds like an 80-year-old granny who goes to Mass every day of the week. The guy was way too pent up.
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Re: Turkey

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.

Jihadists Declare Holy War Against Assad

.
"It is the duty of every Muslim, every Arab to fight the infidels," Sheik Masen also stated. "There is a holy war in Syria and the young men there are conducting jihad. For blood, for honor, for freedom, for dignity," he said . .
.

.
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Re: Outrageous... Men and Women dancing together... in Publi

Post by Carbizene »

monster_gardener wrote:
It gets better if you know the background... While he was with uz in exile in the US, Qutb had been invited to a Latter Day Saint/Mormon Church Dance...He was shocked :shock: and outraged :o to see men and women dancing together in public :shock: !
Well from what I have seen of 'Big love' Mormons are a hotbed of Lucifers charms. :)
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