Turkey

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Ibrahim
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote: Yes, you said that. You never supported that claim in any way, but you did say it.
ohh ffs...I posted a link about Qutb's Caliphate aspirations and you really don't know lavender about Qutb if you think he was Democratic. The fundamental principle from the Greeks thousands of years ago to Democracy is separation of Superstition and State.
So you aren't so interested in the modern one person = one vote version.

Anyway your original claim was that the MB is the same as al-Qaeda. How many people did Qtub kill?
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

Ibrahim wrote:
Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote: Yes, you said that. You never supported that claim in any way, but you did say it.
ohh ffs...I posted a link about Qutb's Caliphate aspirations and you really don't know lavender about Qutb if you think he was Democratic. The fundamental principle from the Greeks thousands of years ago to Democracy is separation of Superstition and State.
So you aren't so interested in the modern one person = one vote version.

Anyway your original claim was that the MB is the same as al-Qaeda. How many people did Qtub kill?
I am very interested in one person one vote, from a fair and reasonable selection of options, which you don't seem interested in due to your lack of support for the people of Egypt who walked out of the new Parliament in protest over that very issue.

As Qutb creates a ideological and philosophical basis for a modern totalitarian superstitious state what have you got for death toll? the dead of Iraq are that way due to NcA flock seekers and so forth, of course it may get a bit complicated for you but these Abrahamic wars are all just over who's name is on the New Jerusalem land title.
Ibrahim
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote: Yes, you said that. You never supported that claim in any way, but you did say it.
ohh ffs...I posted a link about Qutb's Caliphate aspirations and you really don't know lavender about Qutb if you think he was Democratic. The fundamental principle from the Greeks thousands of years ago to Democracy is separation of Superstition and State.
So you aren't so interested in the modern one person = one vote version.

Anyway your original claim was that the MB is the same as al-Qaeda. How many people did Qtub kill?
I am very interested in one person one vote, from a fair and reasonable selection of options, which you don't seem interested in due to your lack of support for the people of Egypt who walked out of the new Parliament in protest over that very issue.
How was the election process unfair? The only "unfair" part seems to be that the wrong guys won, and the losers claim they could have mounted a greater challenge if given more time. I don't know what country you live in, but I'd like to see somebody table that next time an election is due. "We'd like to postpone the Presidential elections until our party has a better chance of winning."

As Qutb creates a ideological and philosophical basis for a modern totalitarian superstitious state what have you got for death toll?
Is that your way of saying that he didn't kill anybody?

it may get a bit complicated for you
Oh I think I have it under control... :lol:
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

Ibrahim wrote:
How was the election process unfair? The only "unfair" part seems to be that the wrong guys won, and the losers claim they could have mounted a greater challenge if given more time. I don't know what country you live in, but I'd like to see somebody table that next time an election is due. "We'd like to postpone the Presidential elections until our party has a better chance of winning."


I choose to listen to the Egyptians who said the time was too short.

As for my country, big difference to your simplistic example, we are not coming out of a military dictatorship.
As Qutb creates a ideological and philosophical basis for a modern totalitarian superstitious state what have you got for death toll?
Is that your way of saying that he didn't kill anybody?
Apologism at it's finest, the guy who calls for Jihad has nothing to do with the assholes that kill for it.
Ibrahim
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
How was the election process unfair? The only "unfair" part seems to be that the wrong guys won, and the losers claim they could have mounted a greater challenge if given more time. I don't know what country you live in, but I'd like to see somebody table that next time an election is due. "We'd like to postpone the Presidential elections until our party has a better chance of winning."


I choose to listen to the Egyptians who said the time was too short.
How much time do you think is appropriate?
As for my country, big difference to your simplistic example, we are not coming out of a military dictatorship.
Right, because then people might vote for the party that helped end the dictatorship in a free election. But you don't want that party in this case, so you claim the election is illegitimate.





As Qutb creates a ideological and philosophical basis for a modern totalitarian superstitious state what have you got for death toll?
Is that your way of saying that he didn't kill anybody?
Apologism at it's finest, the guy who calls for Jihad has nothing to do with the assholes that kill for it.
This statement is not even wrong. I know you try and conceal your superficial understanding of these issues by making brief and snotty replies, but try to flesh out what you are saying here a bit more. In your mind Qtub is responsible for murders committed by al Qaeda? Explain how this works.
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

Well if you can't join the dots between the people who give the ideological justification for actions and the people who carry out those actions there is not much point is there.

You can be seen as saying Ghandi had nothing to do with the relatively peaceful ejection of the British from India, as according to you people who propose ideas have no influence.
Ibrahim
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:Well if you can't join the dots between the people who give the ideological justification for actions and the people who carry out those actions there is not much point is there.

You can be seen as saying Ghandi had nothing to do with the relatively peaceful ejection of the British from India, as according to you people who propose ideas have no influence.

No, your claim is more like saying Gandhi was responsible for the Carnation Revolution in Portugal.
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monster_gardener
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Gandi Martin Luther King inspiration vs. Authors of Violence

Post by monster_gardener »

Ibrahim wrote:
Carbizene wrote:Well if you can't join the dots between the people who give the ideological justification for actions and the people who carry out those actions there is not much point is there.

You can be seen as saying Ghandi had nothing to do with the relatively peaceful ejection of the British from India, as according to you people who propose ideas have no influence.

No, your claim is more like saying Gandhi was responsible for the Carnation Revolution in Portugal.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim......

But would not it be fair to say that AIUI/IIRC Gandhi is in part responsible/was an inspiration for Dr. Martin Luther King's non violent civil rights campaign for Black Americans..... :D 8-) :D

If Qutb endorses Sharia.... with AIUI all the violence including Jihad that entails as the Koran, Hadiths etc. are implemented as the law of the land*
can not Qutb like Mohamed or whoever is/are the authors of the Koran and especially the Hadiths etc. be said to be originating authors of the violence practiced by Muslims in the name of Islam/Allah........ :shock: :o :evil:

Likewise for the atheistic Marx & Lenin.... and Russian/Maoist/Pol Pot purges & violence.... :shock: :evil:

Likewise for the Christian Dominionists Gary North and Rushdoony..... in the awful event of their ever gaining sufficient power to make the OT/Tanakh the law of the land :shock: :o :evil: :evil: :evil:


*Similar to the violence that implementation of a Gary Watts/Rushdoony envisoned Christian Reconstructionist/Dominionist program would entail..
BTW IMVHO this could well be worse than some of the traditional implementations of Sharia.....
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

Qutb was a real charmer:


"This is that music (jazz) that the Negroes invented to satisfy their primitive inclinations, as well as their desire to be noisy on the one hand and to excite bestial tendencies on the other."

like him to walk around parts of New York spouting this bullshit, some genius the Brotherhood have as mentor.
Ibrahim
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:Qutb was a real charmer:


"This is that music (jazz) that the Negroes invented to satisfy their primitive inclinations, as well as their desire to be noisy on the one hand and to excite bestial tendencies on the other."

like him to walk around parts of New York spouting this bullshit, some genius the Brotherhood have as mentor.

Remember, the question isn't whether or not Qtub is a good guy, the question is whether or not you can support your claim that the Muslim Brotherhood is the same as al Qaeda.
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

Both the MB and OBL base their lavender, in part, on him, they manifest it in different ways, but the end goal is the same, so differences are merrily operational.

That they are comfortable with words of a rascist speaks volumes for their mind set.
AzariLoveIran

Re: Turkey

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.

Shame on Turkey playing the game of Arabian tyrants


A full-fledged mercenary army paid for by autocrat Arabs to overthrow an Arab government in Syria is pure and simple regime change - United States rhetoric about "democracy" and "freedom" notwithstanding. It's all about classic, imperial divide and rule, profiting from pitting Sunnis against Shi'ites



Not surprised of those Arabian tyrants, betraying their people last 80 yrs

but TURKEY ? ?

Does Turkey not see the signs on the wall ? ? Arabian Sheiks days numbered ? ? West already packed and leaving ? ?

A mistake, Ibrahim, a mistake


.

What the hell is wrong with those Arabs ?


Maybe it was the narcotic effect of that perennially dreadful Terminal F at Sheremetyevo airport - straight out of a Brejnev gulag. Maybe it was the anticipation of finding more about the Russia-China joint naval exercise scheduled for late April.

Or it was simply another case of "you can take the boy out of the Middle East, but you can't take the Middle East out of the boy".

With friends like these ... It all had to do with that Friends of Syria (fools for war?) meeting in Istanbul. Picture Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal - who seems to have a knack for sending US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton into rapture - feverishly arguing that the House of Saud, those paragons of democracy, had "a duty" to weaponize the Syrian "revolutionary" opposition.

And picture al-Faisal ordering an immediate ceasefire by the Bashar al-Assad government, guilty - according to the House of Saud - not only of cruel repression but crimes against humanity.

No; this was not a Monty Python sketch.

To make sure he was milking the right cow, al-Faisal also said that the Gulf Counter-revolution Club (GCC), also known as Gulf Cooperation Council, wanted to get further into bed with the United States. Translation, if any was needed; the US-GCC tag team, as expressed by the weaponization of the Syrian "rebels", is meant to body slam Iran.

For both the House of Saud and Qatar (the other GCCs are just extras), what's goin' on in Syria is not about Syria; it's always been about Iran.

This especially applies to the Saudi pledge to flood the global oil market with a spare oil production capacity that any self-respecting oil analyst knows they don't have - or rather wouldn't use; after all, the House of Saud badly needs high oil prices to bribe its restive eastern province population into not even thinking about that Arab Spring nonsense.

Clinton got the pledge from the House of Saud in person, before landing in Istanbul. Washington's return gift was of the Pentagon kind; the GCC soon will be protected from "evil" Iran by a US-supplied missile shield. That implies that an attack on Iran may have been discarded for 2012 - but it's certainly "on the table" for 2013.

Asian nations - especially BRICS members China and India - will keep buying oil from Iran; the problem is what the European poodles will do. Other real problems are that the Kurds in northern Iraq are taking their oil off the market until Baghdad pays them the share they had agreed upon. And then there are Syria's 400,000 barrels a day, which have been dwindling over the past few months.

Still, the Saudis will keep playing the make-believe oil scenario as a gift to Washington - as the US pressures compliant European Union poodle economies and extremely wary Asians they have no reason to keep buying Iranian oil.

But then into this mess in Istanbul Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki - whose power is a direct consequence of Washington's invasion and destruction of Iraq - steps in with quite a bang.

Here it is, in his own words:

We reject any arming [of Syrian rebels] and the process to overthrow the [Assad] regime, because this will leave a greater crisis in the region ... The stance of these two states [Qatar and Saudi Arabia] is very strange ... They are calling for sending arms instead of working on putting out the fire, and they will hear our voice, that we are against arming and against foreign interference ... We are against the interference of some countries in Syria's internal affairs, and those countries that are interfering in Syria's internal affairs will interfere in the internal affairs of any country ... It has been one year and the regime did not fall, and it will not fall, and why should it fall?"

Maliki knows very well that the ongoing and already escalating weaponizing of Sunni Syrians - many of the Salafi and jihadi kind - will inevitably spill over into Iraq itself, and threaten his Shi'ite-majority government. And that irrespective of the fact that his administration supports the close Iran-Syria relationship.

Maliki, by the way, was back in power in the autumn of 2010 because Tehran deftly intervened to make sure the Sadrists would support him. To add to Maliki's anger, Qatar is refusing to extradite Iraqi Vice President Tareq al-Hashemi, accused of masterminding a pro-Sunni coup d'etat in Baghdad.

How green was my jihad valley
So Washington is now merrily embarking in a remix of the 1980s Afghan jihad - which, as every grain of sand from the Hindu Kush to Mesopotamia knows, led to that ghostly entity, al-Qaeda, and the subsequent, transformer "war on terror".

The House of Saud and Qatar have institutionalized that motley crew known as the Free Syrian Army as a mercenary outfit; they are now on their payroll, to the tune of $100 million (and counting). Isn't democracy wonderful - when US-allied Persian Gulf monarchies can buy a mercenary army for peanuts? Isn't it great to be a revolutionary with an assured paycheck?

Not missing a beat, Washington has set up its own fund as well, for "humanitarian" assistance to Syria and "non-lethal" aid to the "rebels"; "non-lethal" as in ultra battle-ready satellite communications equipment, plus night-vision goggles. Clinton's silky spin was that the equipment would allow the "rebels" to "evade" attacks by the Syrian government. No mention that now they have access to actionable US intelligence via a swarm of drones deployed all over Syria.

Maliki can clearly see the writing on the (Sunni) wall. The House of Saud invaded Shi'ite-majority Bahrain to protect the extremely unpopular Sunni al-Khalifa dynasty in power - their "cousins". Maliki knows that a post-Assad Syria would mean Muslim Brotherhood Sunnis in power - sprinkled with Salafi-jihadis. In his worst nightmare, Maliki sees this possible dystopian future as an al-Qaeda in Iraq remix on steroids.

So this is what the Istanbul-based "Friends of Syria" bash turned into; a shameless legitimizing - by Arabs allied with the US - of civil war in yet another Arab country. The victims will be average Syrians caught in the crossfire.

This US-GCC weaponizing entirely dissolves the United Nations Syria envoy and former secretary general Kofi Annan's six-point peace plan. The plan calls for a ceasefire; for the Syrian government to "cease troop movements" and "begin pullback of military concentrations"; and for a negotiated political settlement.

There will be no ceasefire. The Assad government accepted the plan. The weaponized "rebels" rejected it. Imagine the Syrian government beginning the "pullback of military concentrations" while swarms of weaponized "rebels" and assorted mercenaries (from Libya, Lebanon and Iraq) keep deploying their torture tactics and launching a barrage of improvised explosive devices.

I landed in Beijing eager to learn more about the upcoming joint Russia-China naval exercise in the Yellow Sea, but instead I was stuck with a Henry Kissinger op-ed in the Washington Post. [1] Here it is, in Dr K's own words:

The Arab Spring is widely presented as a regional, youth-led revolution on behalf of liberal democratic principles. Yet Libya is not ruled by such forces; it hardly continues as a state. Neither is Egypt, whose electoral majority (possibly permanent) is overwhelmingly Islamist. Nor do democrats seem to predominate in the Syrian opposition.

The Arab League consensus on Syria is not shaped by countries previously distinguished by the practice or advocacy of democracy. Rather, it largely reflects the millennium-old conflict between Shi'ite and Sunni and an attempt to reclaim Sunni dominance from a Shi'ite minority. It is also precisely why so many minority groups, such as Druzes, Kurds and Christians, are uneasy about regime change in Syria.

Well, China scholar Dr K at least got this one right (and in total agreement with Maliki, no less). A full-fledged mercenary army paid for by autocrat Arabs to overthrow an Arab government is pure and simple regime change - US rhetoric about "democracy" and "freedom" notwithstanding. It's all about classic, imperial divide and rule, profiting from pitting Sunnis against Shi'ites.


:lol: :lol:


GO, PePe , GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO



.
Ibrahim
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:Both the MB and OBL base their lavender, in part, on him, they manifest it in different ways, but the end goal is the same, so differences are merrily operational.
Do you have any support for that, like some kind of detailed explanation besides a few quips and an unrelated quote?

That they are comfortable with words of a rascist speaks volumes for their mind set.
This whole line of argumentation speaks to your mind set. "I don't like how this country of brown people voted, invalidate their election, cut off their medical aid until these wogs learn how to vote the way I want them to vote. Oh, and this one brown guy from 80 years ago? He's the same as this other one from a different country almost a century later. They all believe the same inferior brown religion so it's all the same to me. I'm uneducated and don't know anything about the subject or region, but I feel justified in making unsupported pronouncements anyway, due to my inherent superiority."
AzariLoveIran

Re: Turkey

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.

If Turkey and Iran join

if so

nothing can stop things anymore

Ibrahim, don't forget, in Iran, 18-20 million not only speak Turkish, not only Turkish their 1st language, but
they do not understand (or speak) Farsi at all

So,

we

natural friends

If Turkey lets go of that western rubbish,

if so

consider cat in the bag

:lol:



.
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

Ibrahim wrote:
This whole line of argumentation speaks to your mind set. "I don't like how this country of brown people voted, invalidate their election, cut off their medical aid until these wogs learn how to vote the way I want them to vote. Oh, and this one brown guy from 80 years ago? He's the same as this other one from a different country almost a century later. They all believe the same inferior brown religion so it's all the same to me. I'm uneducated and don't know anything about the subject or region, but I feel justified in making unsupported pronouncements anyway, due to my inherent superiority."
So I am racist for pointing out Qutb's racism.....riiiight...

Ayman Zawahiri was a student and follower of Qutb and the link between the brotherhood and Qutb doesn't need to be proven.

Interesting that you ignore Qutb's racism, do you not think racism is a repulsive and stupid characteristic?

Nice way to bring up medical aid and ignore weapon aid, you should get a job as a political hack, your dedication to avoiding uncomfortable facts is admirable, I have no problem with medical and food aid, just military.
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

I like this bit:

"No mention that now they have access to actionable US intelligence via a swarm of drones deployed all over Syria."

With apologists such as Ibrahim doing the rounds the Abrahamic wars are going to be going strong for while longer, keep it up kids.
Ibrahim
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
This whole line of argumentation speaks to your mind set. "I don't like how this country of brown people voted, invalidate their election, cut off their medical aid until these wogs learn how to vote the way I want them to vote. Oh, and this one brown guy from 80 years ago? He's the same as this other one from a different country almost a century later. They all believe the same inferior brown religion so it's all the same to me. I'm uneducated and don't know anything about the subject or region, but I feel justified in making unsupported pronouncements anyway, due to my inherent superiority."
So I am racist for pointing out Qutb's racism.....riiiight...
Not what I said. I said that lumping all of these different individuals and groups across a number of different nations into one big pile, even though you have no knowledge of the subject, maybe says something about your attitudes.

Ayman Zawahiri was a student and follower of Qutb and the link between the brotherhood and Qutb doesn't need to be proven.
Evidence for this claim?



Interesting that you ignore Qutb's racism, do you not think racism is a repulsive and stupid characteristic?
Yeah, it is stupid and wrong. I never said otherwise. That doesn't mean that a) the MB is the same as al Qaeda, or b) that Qtub having a stupid (and entirely typical for the period) attitude towards black Americans means that you can negate Egyptian democracy.

And hey, Qtub didn't own any black people, which puts him ahead of most of the Founding Fathers. Guess we should throw American democracy in the trash as well.

Nice way to bring up medical aid and ignore weapon aid,
That's because the aid being offered in the article I linked is all non-military. The military aid ended with the MUbarak regime. He was given that aid to fight, often torturing and assassinating, members of the opposition in Egypt, including the Muslim Brotherhood, which should make you pretty happy.


you should get a job as a political hack, your dedication to avoiding uncomfortable facts is admirable, I have no problem with medical and food aid, just military.
Then you have no problem with the proposed aid to Egypt currently on offer. You see I don't avoid facts, the problem is you don't know any facts.
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

Ibrahim wrote:
Then you have no problem with the proposed aid to Egypt currently on offer. You see I don't avoid facts, the problem is you don't know any facts.
err..I'm guessing you missed the link I posted to military aid being re-instated..maybe you should get the facts before you accuse others of not having them, hilarious.

As for Qutb's influence on OBL et al
His influence on Al Qaeda was felt through his writing, his followers and especially through his brother, Muhammad Qutb, who moved to Saudi Arabia following his release from prison in Egypt and became a professor of Islamic Studies and edited, published and promoted his brother Sayyid's work.

One of Muhammad Qutb's students and later an ardent follower was Ayman Zawahiri, who went on to become a member of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and later a mentor of Osama bin Laden and a leading member of al-Qaeda. Zawahiri was first introduced to Qutb by his uncle and maternal family patriarch, Mafouz Azzam, who was very close to Qutb throughout his life. Azzam was Qutb's student, then protégé, then personal lawyer and executor of his estate — one of the last people to see Qutb before his execution. According to Lawrence Wright, who interviewed Azzam, "young Ayman al-Zawahiri heard again and again from his beloved uncle Mahfouz about the purity of Qutb's character and the torment he had endured in prison." Zawahiri paid homage to Qutb in his work Knights under the Prophet's Banner.


Osama bin Laden was also acquainted with Sayyid's brother, Muhammad Qutb. A close college friend of bin Laden's, Mohammed Jamal Khalifa, told Wright, that bin Laden regularly attended weekly public lectures by Muhammad Qutb, at King Abdulaziz University, and that he and bin Laden both "read Sayyid Qutb. He was the one who most affected our generation."
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

Ibrahim wrote:
Yeah, it is stupid and wrong. I never said otherwise. That doesn't mean that a) the MB is the same as al Qaeda, or b) that Qtub having a stupid (and entirely typical for the period) attitude towards black Americans means that you can negate Egyptian democracy.

And hey, Qtub didn't own any black people, which puts him ahead of most of the Founding Fathers. Guess we should throw American democracy in the trash as well.

The fact that Qutb thought like a large number of dipshits means he should just be fogotten like all the other dipshits of the time, the people who should be remembered were those who refused to be dipshits.

As for your example of founding fathers, what a genuflecting irrelevant piece of spam.
Ibrahim
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Then you have no problem with the proposed aid to Egypt currently on offer. You see I don't avoid facts, the problem is you don't know any facts.
err..I'm guessing you missed the link I posted to military aid being re-instated..maybe you should get the facts before you accuse others of not having them, hilarious.
But it's not reinstated it is? The are exploring doing so, current aid is civilian aid. I'm starting to think you're just a troll. Everything you say is a lie, a truncated quip, or an insult. I've never seen you discuss any subject coherently, accurate, or honestly.


As for Qutb's influence on OBL et al
His influence on Al Qaeda was felt through his writing,

Ahhhh, books! Aaaaaah! Burn them!!!!


One of Muhammad Qutb's students and later an ardent follower was Ayman Zawahiri, who went on to become a member of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and later a mentor of Osama bin Laden and a leading member of al-Qaeda. Zawahiri was first introduced to Qutb by his uncle and maternal family patriarch, Mafouz Azzam, who was very close to Qutb throughout his life. Azzam was Qutb's student, then protégé, then personal lawyer and executor of his estate — one of the last people to see Qutb before his execution. According to Lawrence Wright, who interviewed Azzam, "young Ayman al-Zawahiri heard again and again from his beloved uncle Mahfouz about the purity of Qutb's character and the torment he had endured in prison." Zawahiri paid homage to Qutb in his work Knights under the Prophet's Banner.
You'll find the concept of knowing somebody or meeting them doesn't transmit culpability for murders. I.e. if you know somebody, and they commit a crime, you are not responsible for that crime even if they claim to be inspired by you.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why you are reaching here. You want to invalidate an election because you don't like the results. The tactic you've decided to focus on is applying some kind of guilt by association standard to non-Western people that you would never apply to your self. Even if the figure in question has been dead for 50 years. You hate it when Egyptians vote, I get it. I've read reams of this lavender over at SpengFor, this is nothing new.

You even fell back on the usual retort of accusing me of being an extremist because I don't tacitly accept your stupid, anti-democratic arguments. Brings back fond memories....


Carbizene wrote:The fact that Qutb thought like a large number of dipshits means he should just be fogotten like all the other dipshits of the time, the people who should be remembered were those who refused to be dipshits.

As for your example of founding fathers, what a genuflecting irrelevant piece of spam.
More relevant than %100 of your garbage posts. You want to dismiss Qtub as a historical relic due to his racism. What not dismiss the pack of racists who founded the US? In fact what not dismiss every human being prior to about 1964, since racism was the status quo of the human race for all of history. My example is relevant because is demonstrates the basic stupidity of your position.

But keep up the bluster. I enjoy the spectacle of an uneducated troll trying to talk down to people.
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Carbizene
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Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

Ibrahim wrote:
But it's not reinstated is it? They are exploring doing so, current aid is civilian aid. I'm starting to think you're just a troll.
I think the title of troll resides with you as you don't read links, US military aid to Egypt restored

*buzzer sound*
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Bad Reason to do something stupid.......

Post by monster_gardener »

Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
But it's not reinstated is it? They are exploring doing so, current aid is civilian aid. I'm starting to think you're just a troll.
I think the title of troll resides with you as you don't read links, US military aid to Egypt restored

*buzzer sound*
Thank you Very Much for your post, Carbizene.

Thank you for the link.

This is both disgusting and stupid.......... I understand trying to buy loyalty....... Tricky to do.......
A delay or a cut in $1.3 billion in military aid to Egypt risked breaking existing contracts with American arms manufacturers that could have shut down production lines in the middle of President Obama’s re-election campaign and involved significant financial penalties, according to officials involved in the debate.
But the above should NOT be a reason to give military aid ........
Since the Pentagon buys weapons for foreign armed forces like Egypt’s, the cost of those penalties — which one senior official said could have reached $2 billion if all sales had been halted — would have been borne by the American taxpayer, not Egypt’s ruling generals.


Who came up with a contract like that? A moron or someone getting a kickback from the corporations?

OK, OK if it is more expensive to break the contract than to build the stuff, build it but find a better use for it.......... Per Wiki we are still using the tank and there are other more deserving allies for the planes or let the Air National Guard have them..........

And that way Obama gets to keep the factories running.........

We need to find better things to build to keep factories running........

How about Moon Rockets........
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Carbizene
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Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:41 am

Re: Turkey

Post by Carbizene »

I'm guessing the contract was written up by Lobbyists, as has happened before.

Giving F-16's and Abram's to Caliphers is reminiscent of training OBL in the 80's, except this time the crazy is on several higher levels, there is no ready threat on a scale like the USSR and the amount of arms is significantly more and strategically diverse.

Everything given to the Caliphers will have embed kill switches, of course this relies on 'camel jockeys' not being tech savvy, reminiscent of the defence of Singapore revolving around people with 'slanty eyes' not shooting straight and that worked out so well.

In the article I found it interesting that Clinton over rode the law to continue giving arms:
sidestepped a new Congressional requirement that for the first time directly links arms sales to Egypt’s protection of basic freedoms.
As for what to do with the cash, 'gun's to bridges' is probably a good idea, but of course bridges don't have the lobbyists the arms industry does.

One wonders if arming a group hostile to ones nation counts as a treasonous act still.

I can imagine a well trained Calipher flying a F-16 with Israeli markings and a Nuke strapped to it, popping up from under the Radar and returning to sender, making 9-11 an entrée.

Considering that the group 'Al Queda' is fantasy, something concocted in effort to prosecute via anti-mafia laws, more truthfull nomenclature for OBL and his hommies is the Muslim Brotherhood, as a organisation is best defined by it's birth and ongoing philosophy, as they all follow Qutb.

Considering the green light 9-11 has given for CMIC expansion I can see the motivation to up the gain.

Considering the insanity of giving F-16's to Caliphers and placing Nuclear weapons in Australia, one wonders if a AI has not already come into existance and is manipulating events so as to maximise it's own advantage and longevity, it being best served by Humans entirely subserviant to the CMIC.
Ibrahim
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 am

Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
But it's not reinstated is it? They are exploring doing so, current aid is civilian aid. I'm starting to think you're just a troll.
I think the title of troll resides with you as you don't read links, US military aid to Egypt restored

*buzzer sound*

Hmm.
Once Imperiled, U.S. Aid to Egypt Is Restored
By STEVEN LEE MYERS
Published: March 23, 2012


WASHINGTON — An intense debate within the Obama administration over resuming military assistance to Egypt, which in the end was approved Friday by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, turned in part on a question that had nothing to do with democratic progress in Egypt but rather with American jobs at home.

Oh, so I'm two week out of date. I guess that's the same as not knowing the difference between different countries and organizations.



Giving F-16's and Abram's to Caliphers
You never provided any evidence that Egypt is controlled by anybody intending to implement a "Caliphate," which is presumably what the slur "Caliphers" refers to. It seems like if you knew more about Egypt you'd come up with some legitimate complaints (I can think of many) rather than harping on about how they voted for the wrong party in their elections.
Last edited by Ibrahim on Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ibrahim
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 am

Re: Turkey

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote: I can imagine a well trained Calipher flying a F-16 with Israeli markings and a Nuke strapped to it, popping up from under the Radar and returning to sender, making 9-11 an entrée.
Do you watch a lot of Fox News?
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