Turkey

Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:07 pm

.


noddy wrote:.

no one can build a new you, of this i'm quite sure..

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noddy, you misunderstand, or, maybe, I misquote


Middle East you see now, not the real ME

That thing compiled by (traitor to humanity) Churchill and Ottomans and Tzars and and

The "future" Middle East might be NEW to you guys .. but it will be the glorious Middle East used 2B

Iran putting the fundamentals of this in place

Think CHINA, and, add to it, the heart of civilization


Ibrahim wrote:.

Come meet the new Middle East, same as the old Middle East. But with different hats.

.




Why the low "self steam", Ibrahim, you somebody .. have self confidence .. Iran will guide things


.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:57 am

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4 Turkish Lawmakers Enter Parliament With Headscarves






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Re: Turkey

Postby Endovelico » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:25 am

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.
4 Turkish Lawmakers Enter Parliament With Headscarves


In the same spirit of modernization I have heard the same lawmakers will start wearing chastity belts as from next monday...


Image


The following model may be used instead, when Erdogan addresses Parliament:


Image
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Re: Turkey

Postby Ibrahim » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:20 pm

What's wrong with wearing hijabs? Seems sexist to insult and degrade these women based on no information besides what they choose to wear.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Azrael » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:41 pm

Endo was just looking for an excuse to show off some purchases he made on Ebay.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:57 pm

Azrael wrote:Endo was just looking for an excuse to show off some purchases he made on Ebay.

Did I miss a post with Endo in hijab somewhere?
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Re: Turkey

Postby Azrael » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:26 am

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Azrael wrote:Endo was just looking for an excuse to show off some purchases he made on Ebay.

Did I miss a post with Endo in hijab somewhere?

No. I was referring to the two images on his latest post on this thread.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:17 am

Azrael wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Azrael wrote:Endo was just looking for an excuse to show off some purchases he made on Ebay.

Did I miss a post with Endo in hijab somewhere?

No. I was referring to the two images on his latest post on this thread.

Oh crap. Maybe he'll find a pillowcase and post a selfie.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Endovelico » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:21 am

Ibrahim wrote:What's wrong with wearing hijabs?


It's a sign of subservience to the religious fundamentalists. For decades Turkish women members of Parliament could do their jobs without bowing to the religious diktat, but now some have shown who they bow to. Their independence from religious pressure on all matters can now be questioned.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Endovelico » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:25 am

Azrael wrote:Endo was just looking for an excuse to show off some purchases he made on Ebay.


How do you know they are on sale on Ebay? Have you been looking for a bargain second-hand one?...
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Chastity Belt Jokes..........

Postby monster_gardener » Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:18 am

Endovelico wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.
4 Turkish Lawmakers Enter Parliament With Headscarves


In the same spirit of modernization I have heard the same lawmakers will start wearing chastity belts as from next monday...


Image


The following model may be used instead, when Erdogan addresses Parliament:


Image


Thank You Very Much for your post, Endovelico.

Reminds me of an old joke:

A knight leaves for the Crusades after locking his wife in a chastity belt.

Being a good knight, he leaves the key with a friend with instructions to release his wife if he does not return.

At the dock, almost ready to embark, his frantic friend rides up shouting "You left the wrong key!" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wikipedia reports that this joke may be anachronistic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chastity_belt

However, there is no credible evidence that chastity belts existed before the 16th century (more than two hundred years after the last Crusade).[


I have read elsewhere that chastity belts are one of those bits ;) of culture that that Crusaders brought back from the Middle East...

Perhaps naughty bits ;) if true.......

I have also read that women frequently had the keys to the belts themselves and were sometimes buried in them :shock:
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Re: Turkey

Postby Ibrahim » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:54 am

Endovelico wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:What's wrong with wearing hijabs? Seems sexist to insult and degrade these women based on no information besides what they choose to wear.


It's a sign of subservience to the religious fundamentalists.


Pure nonsense. You know nothing about these women or why they have chosen to wear the hijab. To equate hijabs with "fundamentalism" is comically ignorant.


For decades Turkish women members of Parliament could do their jobs without bowing to the religious diktat,


It is not a "diktat," and by the way women and men were previously forbidden to wear certain forms of headwear under an antiquated law. They are now free to wear, or not wear, whatever they want. Why are you so repelled by women exercising their freedoms?



Their independence from religious pressure on all matters can now be questioned.


You didn't question their "independence," you sexualized and degraded them on the basis of their gender and religion.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:31 pm

I believe hijab was once banned in Turkish Parliament. The freedom to wear one or not would be more freedom, not less.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Doc » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:27 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:I believe hijab was once banned in Turkish Parliament. The freedom to wear one or not would be more freedom, not less.


That would depend on motives as Ibrahim rightly points out
http://www.dw.de/four-turkish-lawmakers ... a-17197802
The AKP argued that lifting the headscarf ban was a matter of civil rights, at it had prevented religious Muslim women from openly expressing their faith.
Critics argue this and other measures, such as imposing new restrictions on the sale of alcohol demonstrate that Erdogan and his party are seeking to weaken the secular order modern Turkey was built upon.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:49 pm

Doc wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:.

I believe hijab was once banned in Turkish Parliament. The freedom to wear one or not would be more freedom, not less.

.


That would depend on motives as Ibrahim rightly points out
http://www.dw.de/four-turkish-lawmakers ... a-17197802
The AKP argued that lifting the headscarf ban was a matter of civil rights, at it had prevented religious Muslim women from openly expressing their faith.
Critics argue this and other measures, such as imposing new restrictions on the sale of alcohol demonstrate that Erdogan and his party are seeking to weaken the secular order modern Turkey was built upon.

.


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Atta Turk strongly curtailing everything Islam, was, justified at that time as Sultans, to justify their existence, had given too much power to religion resulting religion to dominate everything AND leaving nothing to "free will choice" of individual

But, thanks to Atta Turk, Turkey has advance so much that today people can make their own choice freely

Issue in Turkey is, the mindset of the real Turks, the Oghuz Turks, not same as the 85% of other Turks from European or Russian and Byzantine origin .. they on different page .. art would be to brings them on the same page .. that problem does not exist in Iran, in Iran everybody on RUMI page one


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Re: Turkey

Postby Ibrahim » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:39 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:I believe hijab was once banned in Turkish Parliament. The freedom to wear one or not would be more freedom, not less.


Precisely. The fez, hijab, and other religious or traditional dress were banned under Ataturk as part of a Westernization campaign. Since dropped as superfluous, the ban was in effect for 70 years.

I find any such bans on clothing or compulsory clothing, anywhere, to be inherently repressive and unjust.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:22 pm

New hijab

Image
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Re: Turkey

Postby Doc » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:05 am

Nonc Hilaire wrote:New hijab


http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/201 ... sus-1.html
Moonbats Versus Moonbats in Boulder

Posted by Dave Blount at July 20, 2010 10:21 AM

You can never be liberal enough to satisfy other liberals, as illustrated by the ACLU's tiff with the moonbat mental asylum known as Boulder, Colorado.

First Boulder enraged Seth Brigham by enacting a nudity ban. Brigham responded in typical moonbat fashion, by taking off his clothes at a City Council meeting. The Council then escalated the conflict by proposing decorum guidelines that would require attendants at such meetings to keep their clothes on. However, they went too far by also forbidding troublemakers to wear "a mask or material of any kind that obscures the face of the person." Now the ACLU has ridden to the rescue, screeching in self-righteous ire that this would "exclude women who wear a Hijab or veil for religious reasons."

Now that the Muslim card has been played, we can expect the City Council to roll over and submit to meetings that mix Animal House with the Gong Show. Since 9/11/01, no liberal has wanted to stand accused of oppressing the Religion of Peace.


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Re: Turkey

Postby Azrael » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:03 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Azrael wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Azrael wrote:Endo was just looking for an excuse to show off some purchases he made on Ebay.

Did I miss a post with Endo in hijab somewhere?

No. I was referring to the two images on his latest post on this thread.

Oh crap. Maybe he'll find a pillowcase and post a selfie.

I hope not. I'm too young to go blind. :lol:
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Re: Turkey

Postby Azrael » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:07 pm

Endovelico wrote:
Azrael wrote:Endo was just looking for an excuse to show off some purchases he made on Ebay.


How do you know they are on sale on Ebay?

They sell just about everything on Ebay.
Have you been looking for a bargain second-hand one?...

No. Sorry. I think you'll have better luck selling your second-hand one on Ebay than this forum.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:45 am

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Why Turkey Changed Position on Syria ?


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. . Ankara’s relations with other regional capitals, including Tehran and Moscow started to deteriorate.

Under the existing circumstances, there are a number of reasons which seem to be providing the main drive behind Turkey’s decision to change its previous position on Syria.

- The first reason is the failure of Turkey’s policies in Syria. The main outcome of Turkey’s foreign policy approach to the ongoing developments in Syria has been nothing but complete failure. The officials in Ankara, who believed that their country would find a powerful foothold in the Arab country through rapid triumph of the Syrian opposition, have realized that they have been treading a totally wrong path. Turkey has not only failed to achieve its original goals, but is currently dealing with different challenges which have come about as a result of the heavy defeat that Ankara’s foreign policy has suffered in the region.

- The second factor which has prompted Turkey to change its standing on Syria is the issue of the Syrian Kurds. Talks about granting possible autonomy to Syrian Kurds has greatly concerned the Turkish leaders in Ankara. [Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip] Erdogan has been sensitive about the issue of Syrian Kurds since the beginning of the crisis in Syria and had even talked about the establishment of a buffer zone along its southern border with the Arab country. However, it is quite evident now that even this policy has hit a dead end. A possible declaration of autonomy by Syrian Kurds, in view of profound ties that exist between them and the Turkish Kurds, especially Kurdistan Workers’ Party [PKK], can face Ankara with grave difficulties for solving problems with its own Kurds, on the one hand, while increasing the political activities of Turkey’s opposition Kurds in various cities of Syria, on the other hand. Holding joint camps by the PKK and Syrian Kurds in northern parts of Syria as a result of the erroneous policies adopted by Erdogan’s government toward Syria, can pose a great challenge to the political future of the Turkish prime minister. By supporting the Syrian opposition, Erdogan has practically provided the opposition Kurdish parties with very good conditions in both countries. This situation will certainly prompt opposition parties to increase their activities against the government of Erdogan. For this reason, Erdogan has been forced to change his past stances on Syria in order to be able to control Kurds in his own country.

- The third reason behind the latest change of position by Erdogan, in particular, and the Turkish government, in general, is related to domestic protests inside Turkey. The violent protests, which started at Taksim Square in the coastal city of Istanbul and continued for a variety of reasons, will look more important when one considers them in parallel to other developments in the region. The military coup d’état in Egypt [which led to the overthrow of the government of Mohamed Morsi] took place according to a model which had been previously used with success by the Turkish army to topple the government of the country’s Islamist politician, Necmettin Erbakan. This issue stirred a lot of fear among the Turkish leaders as Erdogan was concerned that the continuation of protests in the country may prompt the Turkish army to follow suit with its Egyptian counterpart.

- The fourth reason that has prompted Erdogan to think twice about his position on Syria is the differences that have emerged between Turkey and Saudi Arabia with regard to regional developments, especially the developments in Turkey. Erdogan and his Justice and Development Party took the lead in supporting political currents which were affiliated to the Muslim Brotherhood across the region after political developments that were later came to be known as the Arab Spring got under way. At present, Erdogan has lost the Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt, which is considered the most powerful faction of the Muslim Brotherhood in the entire region. On the opposite, Saudi Arabia, which is quite satisfied with the result of the military coup d’état in Egypt, is supporting the Egyptian military’s measure to overthrow the Muslim Brotherhood. These differences in approaches have created deep rifts in the Western – Arab – Turkish front which had taken shape against the resistance axis, especially Syria, in the region.

- The fifth reason behind the change in Turkey’s position on Syria is the change in the United States policy toward the Arab country and Washington’s reluctance about launching a military strike against Damascus. Turkey had already indicated its indignation at the United States lenient treatment of Syria developments. It seems that the last hopes of Erdogan’s government for a military intervention by the United States in Syria have been dashed and Ankara is currently seeing itself lonelier than any time before in the anti-Syria front.

Last but not least, the sixth major reason prompting Turkey to change position on Syria is related to challenges and perils that have been posed to Erdogan’s government by extremist militants. In fact, the ultimatum given to Recep Tayyip Erdogan by terrorist militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant on October 1, has apparently convinced the Turkish government to put an end to its all-out support for the opponents of [the incumbent Syrian President Bashar] Assad. Therefore, the Turkish officials, who had been already accused of being supporters of Al-Qaeda, have now fallen victim to terrorism and extremism. This is why the notion is growing strong in Turkey that non-selective support for all the militant groups in Syria has been a tactical mistake on the part of Ankara. As a consequence, Ankara took a step on October 10 to close the bank accounts of more than 400 legal and real entities believed to be affiliated to Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Also, on October 15, the Turkish army, for the first time throughout the Syria crisis, dealt severe blows to extremist elements that are positioned inside Syria. Before that, Turkish military only opened fire on the positions of the Syrian government forces.

On the whole, the above facts clearly prove that the government of Turkey is facing various realities and has many reasons to change the position it had already taken with regard to Syria. Now, one must wait and see for how long Erdogan and [his Foreign Minister Ahmet] Davutoglu will be able to go on with their obstinacy and wrong ambitions.

.


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Re: Turkey

Postby Ibrahim » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:26 am

Its the Kurds. They could potentially form an independent state in Syria, and the Turkish government has always opposed the formation of a Kurdish state which could eventually absorb a chunk of Turkish territory.


The overall strategy of Turkey was the same as the rest of NATO: Don't actually help the rebels, but cheer them on. Didn't accomplish anything. At least Turkey sheltered some refugees.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Endovelico » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:19 am

Erdogan replaces 10 ministers amid corruption scandal
By AP and Times of Israel staff December 26, 2013, 12:33 am 0

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Wednesday reshuffled his cabinet after three key ministers resigned over a sweeping corruption and bribery scandal that has targeted his allies and rattled his government.

Erdogan replaced Economy Minister Zafer Caglayan, Interior Minister Muammer Guler and Erdogan Bayraktar, the minister for the environment and urban planning. All three men’s sons were detained as part of the corruption investigation. They all deny any wrongdoing.

Erdogan also replaced the minister in charge of relations with the European Union, who was also been implicated in the scandal, but has not resigned.

In all, Erdogan replaced 10 ministers, including three who will contest mayoral elections in March.

In Istanbul, police clashed with hundreds of protesters demanding the government’s resignation, Dogan news agency reported.

The corruption probe is one of the biggest political challenges Erdogan has faced since his Islamic-based party narrowly escaped being disbanded in 2008 for allegedly undermining Turkey’s secular Constitution. This summer, he also weathered a wave of anti-government protests sparked by a development project that would have engulfed an Istanbul park.

Erdogan has denounced the investigation as a plot by foreign and domestic forces to thwart his country’s prosperity and discredit his government ahead of local elections in March. His government has won three elections since 2002 on the strength of the economy and a promise to fight corruption.

He had ignored opposition calls for the immediate dismissal of the ministers.

On Tuesday, Turkish President Abdullah Gul had signaled that the government ministers embroiled in the corruption and bribery scandal could be removed from their posts.

Asked if the ministers involved would be removed, Gul said Tuesday that Erdogan was “making preparations and assessments” on the issue. The president approves ministerial appointments.

Last week, 24 people were arrested on bribery charges as part of the probe, including the head of a state-run bank, with suspected ties to sanctions-hit Iran.

Police said they seized shoeboxes stashed with $4.5 million in cash at the home of the chief of Halkbank while more than $1 million in cash was reportedly discovered in the home of Guler’s son.

According to Businessweek, “police have said the inquiry targets organized graft, money laundering and gold smuggling.”

The police raids threatened to rock Erdogan’s 11-year tenure.

Many believe the police operation is the fallout of a deepening rift between Erdogan’s government and a powerful US-based moderate Islamic cleric, Fethullah Gulen, whose followers are reported to have a strong foothold within Turkey’s police and judiciary.

Gulen has denied being involved in the investigation. He left Turkey in 1999 after being accused by the then-secular government of plotting to establish an Islamic state. He was later cleared of that charge and allowed to return to his homeland, but he never has and is living in Pennsylvania.

Erdogan has said the corruption investigation is a “dirty operation” to unsettle his government and has vowed to go after those who have instigated it. The Turkish PM has also indicated that there was an “international dimension” to the probe.

On Saturday, Erdogan had threatened to expel foreign ambassadors from Turkey, following what he termed “provocative actions” on their part amid the ongoing corruption investigation.

“Some ambassadors are engaged in provocative actions … Do your job,” Erdogan said in televised remarks.

“We don’t have to keep ambassadors in the country who exceed the limits of their duty,” he added.

Erdogan did not name names but the remarks were considered a warning to US Ambassador to Turkey Francis Ricciardone, who, according to pro-Erdogan media outlets, had told EU envoys that Washington had advised Halkbank to cut ties with Iran.

“We asked Halkbank to cut its links with Iran. They did not listen to us. You are watching the collapse of an empire,” Ricciardone was quoted as telling EU ambassadors, according to remarks carried by AFP based on reports in Aksam, Bugun, Yeni Safak and Star newspapers.

Ricciardone on Saturday denied the media reports as “baseless allegations,” in his Twitter account in the Turkish language. ”Nobody should put US-Turkish relations into jeopardy through baseless allegations,” he said, according to AFP.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/erdogan-replaces-10-government-ministers-amid-corruption-scandal/


Good Muslims are, by definition, good and honest people. Therefore, as the argument goes, an Islamist government - which by definition can only be made of good, honest Muslims - is a good and honest government. When one sees the corruption among good Islamist ministers in Turkey, one has to consider two possibilities:

1. Islamists do not have to be good and honest, and therefore they are not good Muslims.
2. In politics, Islam - just like Christianity - is just an excuse to attract the illiterate vote.

Getting rid of so-called Islamist parties would be a good public health measure...
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Re: Turkey

Postby Apollonius » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:57 pm

Still appears to be some interest in Spengler on this forum:



The end of Ergodan's cave of wonders: an I-told-you-so - Spengler (David P. Goldman), PJ Media, 27 December 2014
http://pjmedia.com/spengler/2013/12/27/ ... ld-you-so/

Turkey is coming apart. The Islamist coalition that crushed the secular military and political establishment–between Tayip Erdogan’s ruling AK Party and the Islamist movement around Fethullah Gulen–has cracked. The Gulenists, who predominate in the security forces, have arrested the sons of top government ministers for helping Iran to launder money and circumvent sanctions, and ten members of Erdogan’s cabinet have resigned. Turkey’s currency is in free fall, and that’s just the beginning of the country’s troubles: about two-fifths of corporate debt is in foreign currencies, so the cost of servicing it jumps whenever the Turkish lira declines. Turkish stocks have crashed (and were down another 5% in dollar terms in early trading Friday). As the charts below illustrate, so much for Turkey’s miracle economy.

Two years ago I predicted a Turkish economic crash. Erdogan’s much-vaunted economic miracle stemmed mainly from vast credit expansion to fuel an import boom, leaving the country with a current account deficit of 7 % of GDP (about the same as Greece before it went bankrupt) and a mushrooming pile of short-term foreign debt. The Gulf states kept financing Erdogan’s import bill, evidently because they wanted to keep a Sunni power in business as a counterweight to Iran; perhaps they have tired of Turkey’s double-dealing with the Persians. And credulous investors kept piling into Turkish stocks.

I reiterated my warning that Turkey would unravel at regular intervals, for example here.
No more. Turkey is a mediocre economy at best with a poorly educated workforce, no high-tech capacity, and shrinking markets in depressed Europe and the unstable Arab world. Its future might well be as an economic tributary of China, as the “New Silk Road” extends high-speed rail lines to the Bosporus. ...
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Re: Turkey

Postby Parodite » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:57 pm

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