Turkey

Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:32 pm

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Re: Turkey

Postby Mr. Perfect » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:18 pm

Endovelico wrote:Good Muslims are, by definition, good and honest people. Therefore, as the argument goes, an Islamist government - which by definition can only be made of good, honest Muslims - is a good and honest government. When one sees the corruption among good Islamist ministers in Turkey, one has to consider two possibilities:

1. Islamists do not have to be good and honest, and therefore they are not good Muslims.
2. In politics, Islam - just like Christianity - is just an excuse to attract the illiterate vote.

Getting rid of so-called Islamist parties would be a good public health measure...

In America the illiterate vote went to obama, who did not run on Christianity.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:10 pm

Endovelico wrote:Good Muslims are, by definition, good and honest people. Therefore, as the argument goes, an Islamist government - which by definition can only be made of good, honest Muslims - is a good and honest government. When one sees the corruption among good Islamist ministers in Turkey, one has to consider two possibilities:

1. Islamists do not have to be good and honest, and therefore they are not good Muslims.
2. In politics, Islam - just like Christianity - is just an excuse to attract the illiterate vote.

Getting rid of so-called Islamist parties would be a good public health measure...



Endo,

that stunt in Turkey (called "corruption"), Gold trade with Iran, was a Government of Turkey policy .. Turkey buys GAS from Iran and must pay for it, America was throwing sand into payment for Iranian gas, and, Turkish government organized that payment by the back door .. as this was not possible through official channel, (Iran trusted) businessman made money facilitating it .. similar to Iran/Contra affair

These kind of things happened on daily bases .. a lot of terrorist acts are financed by Saudi and Arab Sheiks on behalf of CIA .. that keeps them "off book", and deniable .. all those guys who get big "commission", Kashogi, Schreiber etc, from "government to government" arms deal in reality a "hush fund" that is tapped for "off books" operation .. In cold war time, most conservative political parties in Europe were funded from these hush funds, widely reported after cold war in media but quickly silenced

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Re: Turkey

Postby Apollonius » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:32 pm

Turkish women mock no laughing request from senior official - CBC News, 30 July 2014
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/turkish-wo ... -1.2722399



Hundreds of Turkish women posted pictures of themselves laughing on Twitter on Wednesday to protest against comments by Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc who had urged women not to laugh in public to "protect moral values."

Melda Onur, a lawmaker from the main opposition party CHP said on Twitter Arinc's comments portrayed laughing as a dishonourable act and left women exposed to violence.

Opponents accuse Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's government of ruling in an increasingly authoritarian manner and meddling in people's private lives, which has long been a source of conflict between the country's secularists and Erdogan's conservative supporters. ...
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Re: Turkey

Postby Doc » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:04 pm

I started wondering where Turkey has been during the ISIS crisis in Iraq so I looked...

http://www.todayszaman.com/blog/mahir-z ... 52859.html
Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'

Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (Photo: Cihan, Bayram Emir)
Whenever I write about the intrinsic relationship between the Turkish government and al-Qaeda inspired groups, I'm subject to a smear campaign by Erdoğan's thugs.

Some of them are naive enough to believe that Erdoğan would not go that far. Now here is a case for those who don't want to believe that Erdoğan supports the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) -- an organization that even al-Qaeda itself listed as a terrorist group for its excessive violence.

In previous articles, I made clear how Erdoğan's government fostered al-Qaeda-linked or inspired groups in Syria and how they turned out to be a threat for both Iraq and Turkish interests. Although ISIS militants have been holding dozens of Turkish citizens for more than a month now, Erdoğan still avoids calling these militants terrorists. Today, he even called them brothers:

"A Muslim would not do this cruelty to another Muslim brother," Erdoğan said during an iftar dinner. Wait a minute, what? Who is whose brother? The throat-slitting savages who are holding your citizens for weeks are your Muslim brothers? Is that how you define the terrorists against whom the world is united to root out?

He continued begging to the group to release the Turkish citizens:

"I call here on the ISIS organization. We want you to release our citizens, consular officers... there are women and children. They need to do this. I'm particularly reminding them of this. I reminded them this afternoon and I'm reminding them of it here again," Erdoğan, who is often called by his supporters "leader of the world," said.

Some of you might think that there are delicate negotiations going on behind the scenes through back channels and that sharpening the tone taken against the organization could imperil the lives of the Turkish citizens.

Fair enough.

But shouldn't Erdoğan just assure people that negotiations are under way and avoid begging terrorists publicly? Is publicly asking the release of Turkish citizens part of those "back-channel negotiations?"

Supporters of the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) are the last people to raise the issue of sensitivity when it comes to foreign policy-making. We saw how reckless the Turkish government and its supporters could be only last year, in Egypt, when Erdoğan's empty talk encouraged the helpless Muslim Brotherhood members to resist against Egypt's ruthless military and eventually got them killed. They could have acted in a much smarter way, but blindly resisting against the killing machine that has no concern for human lives led to tragic death and destruction.

Shouldn't the AK Party be more sensitive when it comes to innocent men and women in Egypt? Does the blood of Egyptians really matter or was it a just good time for Erdoğan to exploit their tragedy?
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Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:45 pm

Doc wrote:I started wondering where Turkey has been during the ISIS crisis in Iraq so I looked...

http://www.todayszaman.com/blog/mahir-z ... 52859.html
Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'

Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (Photo: Cihan, Bayram Emir)
Whenever I write about the intrinsic relationship between the Turkish government and al-Qaeda inspired groups, I'm subject to a smear campaign by Erdoğan's thugs.

Some of them are naive enough to believe that Erdoğan would not go that far. Now here is a case for those who don't want to believe that Erdoğan supports the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) -- an organization that even al-Qaeda itself listed as a terrorist group for its excessive violence.

In previous articles, I made clear how Erdoğan's government fostered al-Qaeda-linked or inspired groups in Syria and how they turned out to be a threat for both Iraq and Turkish interests. Although ISIS militants have been holding dozens of Turkish citizens for more than a month now, Erdoğan still avoids calling these militants terrorists. Today, he even called them brothers:

"A Muslim would not do this cruelty to another Muslim brother," Erdoğan said during an iftar dinner. Wait a minute, what? Who is whose brother? The throat-slitting savages who are holding your citizens for weeks are your Muslim brothers? Is that how you define the terrorists against whom the world is united to root out?

He continued begging to the group to release the Turkish citizens:

"I call here on the ISIS organization. We want you to release our citizens, consular officers... there are women and children. They need to do this. I'm particularly reminding them of this. I reminded them this afternoon and I'm reminding them of it here again," Erdoğan, who is often called by his supporters "leader of the world," said.

Some of you might think that there are delicate negotiations going on behind the scenes through back channels and that sharpening the tone taken against the organization could imperil the lives of the Turkish citizens.

Fair enough.

But shouldn't Erdoğan just assure people that negotiations are under way and avoid begging terrorists publicly? Is publicly asking the release of Turkish citizens part of those "back-channel negotiations?"

Supporters of the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) are the last people to raise the issue of sensitivity when it comes to foreign policy-making. We saw how reckless the Turkish government and its supporters could be only last year, in Egypt, when Erdoğan's empty talk encouraged the helpless Muslim Brotherhood members to resist against Egypt's ruthless military and eventually got them killed. They could have acted in a much smarter way, but blindly resisting against the killing machine that has no concern for human lives led to tragic death and destruction.

Shouldn't the AK Party be more sensitive when it comes to innocent men and women in Egypt? Does the blood of Egyptians really matter or was it a just good time for Erdoğan to exploit their tragedy?



Doc, Erdoğan can not go to toilet have a piss without NATO approval :lol:

In that sense, if Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers', would mean NATO & Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'

Now, becoming clear, ISIS the new replacement for Ossama, CIA & Mossad co-creators

.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Doc » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:25 pm

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Doc wrote:I started wondering where Turkey has been during the ISIS crisis in Iraq so I looked...

http://www.todayszaman.com/blog/mahir-z ... 52859.html
Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'

Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (Photo: Cihan, Bayram Emir)
Whenever I write about the intrinsic relationship between the Turkish government and al-Qaeda inspired groups, I'm subject to a smear campaign by Erdoğan's thugs.

Some of them are naive enough to believe that Erdoğan would not go that far. Now here is a case for those who don't want to believe that Erdoğan supports the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) -- an organization that even al-Qaeda itself listed as a terrorist group for its excessive violence.

In previous articles, I made clear how Erdoğan's government fostered al-Qaeda-linked or inspired groups in Syria and how they turned out to be a threat for both Iraq and Turkish interests. Although ISIS militants have been holding dozens of Turkish citizens for more than a month now, Erdoğan still avoids calling these militants terrorists. Today, he even called them brothers:

"A Muslim would not do this cruelty to another Muslim brother," Erdoğan said during an iftar dinner. Wait a minute, what? Who is whose brother? The throat-slitting savages who are holding your citizens for weeks are your Muslim brothers? Is that how you define the terrorists against whom the world is united to root out?

He continued begging to the group to release the Turkish citizens:

"I call here on the ISIS organization. We want you to release our citizens, consular officers... there are women and children. They need to do this. I'm particularly reminding them of this. I reminded them this afternoon and I'm reminding them of it here again," Erdoğan, who is often called by his supporters "leader of the world," said.

Some of you might think that there are delicate negotiations going on behind the scenes through back channels and that sharpening the tone taken against the organization could imperil the lives of the Turkish citizens.

Fair enough.

But shouldn't Erdoğan just assure people that negotiations are under way and avoid begging terrorists publicly? Is publicly asking the release of Turkish citizens part of those "back-channel negotiations?"

Supporters of the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) are the last people to raise the issue of sensitivity when it comes to foreign policy-making. We saw how reckless the Turkish government and its supporters could be only last year, in Egypt, when Erdoğan's empty talk encouraged the helpless Muslim Brotherhood members to resist against Egypt's ruthless military and eventually got them killed. They could have acted in a much smarter way, but blindly resisting against the killing machine that has no concern for human lives led to tragic death and destruction.

Shouldn't the AK Party be more sensitive when it comes to innocent men and women in Egypt? Does the blood of Egyptians really matter or was it a just good time for Erdoğan to exploit their tragedy?



Doc, Erdoğan can not go to toilet have a piss without NATO approval :lol:

In that sense, if Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers', would mean NATO & Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'

Now, becoming clear, ISIS the new replacement for Ossama, CIA & Mossad co-creators

.


Why do you keep making stuff up AZ? You are a fool if you think it helps your cause(s)
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Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:13 pm

Doc wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Doc wrote:I started wondering where Turkey has been during the ISIS crisis in Iraq so I looked...

http://www.todayszaman.com/blog/mahir-z ... 52859.html
Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'

Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (Photo: Cihan, Bayram Emir)
Whenever I write about the intrinsic relationship between the Turkish government and al-Qaeda inspired groups, I'm subject to a smear campaign by Erdoğan's thugs.

Some of them are naive enough to believe that Erdoğan would not go that far. Now here is a case for those who don't want to believe that Erdoğan supports the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) -- an organization that even al-Qaeda itself listed as a terrorist group for its excessive violence.

In previous articles, I made clear how Erdoğan's government fostered al-Qaeda-linked or inspired groups in Syria and how they turned out to be a threat for both Iraq and Turkish interests. Although ISIS militants have been holding dozens of Turkish citizens for more than a month now, Erdoğan still avoids calling these militants terrorists. Today, he even called them brothers:

"A Muslim would not do this cruelty to another Muslim brother," Erdoğan said during an iftar dinner. Wait a minute, what? Who is whose brother? The throat-slitting savages who are holding your citizens for weeks are your Muslim brothers? Is that how you define the terrorists against whom the world is united to root out?

He continued begging to the group to release the Turkish citizens:

"I call here on the ISIS organization. We want you to release our citizens, consular officers... there are women and children. They need to do this. I'm particularly reminding them of this. I reminded them this afternoon and I'm reminding them of it here again," Erdoğan, who is often called by his supporters "leader of the world," said.

Some of you might think that there are delicate negotiations going on behind the scenes through back channels and that sharpening the tone taken against the organization could imperil the lives of the Turkish citizens.

Fair enough.

But shouldn't Erdoğan just assure people that negotiations are under way and avoid begging terrorists publicly? Is publicly asking the release of Turkish citizens part of those "back-channel negotiations?"

Supporters of the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) are the last people to raise the issue of sensitivity when it comes to foreign policy-making. We saw how reckless the Turkish government and its supporters could be only last year, in Egypt, when Erdoğan's empty talk encouraged the helpless Muslim Brotherhood members to resist against Egypt's ruthless military and eventually got them killed. They could have acted in a much smarter way, but blindly resisting against the killing machine that has no concern for human lives led to tragic death and destruction.

Shouldn't the AK Party be more sensitive when it comes to innocent men and women in Egypt? Does the blood of Egyptians really matter or was it a just good time for Erdoğan to exploit their tragedy?



Doc, Erdoğan can not go to toilet have a piss without NATO approval :lol:

In that sense, if Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers', would mean NATO & Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'

Now, becoming clear, ISIS the new replacement for Ossama, CIA & Mossad co-creators

.


Why do you keep making stuff up AZ? You are a fool if you think it helps your cause(s)




Doc, you posted " Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers' "

I'm saying Turkey a NATO member .. how can Erdoğan be ISIS 'brothers' when at the same time America (supposedly) bombing ISIS ? ? ?

You mean Erdoğan acting against NATO interest ? ? ?

Something does not rime .. either Erdoğan's NO ISIS 'brothers', or, America NO bombing ISIS

you decide who the fool :)


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Re: Turkey

Postby Doc » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:02 am

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Doc wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Doc wrote:I started wondering where Turkey has been during the ISIS crisis in Iraq so I looked...

http://www.todayszaman.com/blog/mahir-z ... 52859.html
Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'

Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (Photo: Cihan, Bayram Emir)
Whenever I write about the intrinsic relationship between the Turkish government and al-Qaeda inspired groups, I'm subject to a smear campaign by Erdoğan's thugs.

Some of them are naive enough to believe that Erdoğan would not go that far. Now here is a case for those who don't want to believe that Erdoğan supports the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) -- an organization that even al-Qaeda itself listed as a terrorist group for its excessive violence.

In previous articles, I made clear how Erdoğan's government fostered al-Qaeda-linked or inspired groups in Syria and how they turned out to be a threat for both Iraq and Turkish interests. Although ISIS militants have been holding dozens of Turkish citizens for more than a month now, Erdoğan still avoids calling these militants terrorists. Today, he even called them brothers:

"A Muslim would not do this cruelty to another Muslim brother," Erdoğan said during an iftar dinner. Wait a minute, what? Who is whose brother? The throat-slitting savages who are holding your citizens for weeks are your Muslim brothers? Is that how you define the terrorists against whom the world is united to root out?

He continued begging to the group to release the Turkish citizens:

"I call here on the ISIS organization. We want you to release our citizens, consular officers... there are women and children. They need to do this. I'm particularly reminding them of this. I reminded them this afternoon and I'm reminding them of it here again," Erdoğan, who is often called by his supporters "leader of the world," said.

Some of you might think that there are delicate negotiations going on behind the scenes through back channels and that sharpening the tone taken against the organization could imperil the lives of the Turkish citizens.

Fair enough.

But shouldn't Erdoğan just assure people that negotiations are under way and avoid begging terrorists publicly? Is publicly asking the release of Turkish citizens part of those "back-channel negotiations?"

Supporters of the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) are the last people to raise the issue of sensitivity when it comes to foreign policy-making. We saw how reckless the Turkish government and its supporters could be only last year, in Egypt, when Erdoğan's empty talk encouraged the helpless Muslim Brotherhood members to resist against Egypt's ruthless military and eventually got them killed. They could have acted in a much smarter way, but blindly resisting against the killing machine that has no concern for human lives led to tragic death and destruction.

Shouldn't the AK Party be more sensitive when it comes to innocent men and women in Egypt? Does the blood of Egyptians really matter or was it a just good time for Erdoğan to exploit their tragedy?



Doc, Erdoğan can not go to toilet have a piss without NATO approval :lol:

In that sense, if Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers', would mean NATO & Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers'

Now, becoming clear, ISIS the new replacement for Ossama, CIA & Mossad co-creators

.


Why do you keep making stuff up AZ? You are a fool if you think it helps your cause(s)




Doc, you posted " Erdoğan's ISIS 'brothers' "

I'm saying Turkey a NATO member .. how can Erdoğan be ISIS 'brothers' when at the same time America (supposedly) bombing ISIS ? ? ?

You mean Erdoğan acting against NATO interest ? ? ?

Something does not rime .. either Erdoğan's NO ISIS 'brothers', or, America NO bombing ISIS

you decide who the fool :) .


OK I decided .....
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Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:52 am

.


“ Wasn’t it the case in Anatolia ?
Our poor mothers suffered immensely and got hunchbacks
while
the men were playing cards and rolling dice at teahouses ”




What women need is to be able to be equivalent, rather than equal. Because equality turns the victim into an oppressor and vice versa.”

Erdoğan, 60, has been married since 1978 to his wife Emine, with whom he has two sons and two daughters.

Aylin Nazliaka, an MP from the main opposition Republican People’s party said Erdoğan “ostracised” women by portraying them as delicate, weak and powerless and limiting their role to motherhood.

“Erdoğan has publicly committed a hate crime … But I will continue to fight this man who sees no difference between terrorists and feminists,” she said in a written statement.

Sule Zeybek, an anchorwoman at the Turkish broadcaster Kanal D, hit back at Erdoğan’s comments live on television during a news bulletin.

“I am a feminist and thank God I’m a mum. I wouldn’t kiss my mother’s feet but I have great respect for her,” she said.

The Islamic-rooted government of Erdoğan has long been accused by critics of seeking to erode the country’s secular principles and limiting the civil liberties of women.

Erdoğan has drawn the ire of feminist groups for declaring that every woman in Turkey should have three children and with proposals to limit abortion rights, the morning-after pill and caesarean sections.

Seen by critics as increasingly authoritarian, he has repeatedly lashed out personally at female journalists who displeased him.




For sure, western feminism has morphed into perversion .. things must be "reboot".


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Re: Turkey

Postby Doc » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:01 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/ ... ET20141219
Turkish court issues arrest warrant for U.S.-based Erdogan rival, media reports

Turkey keeps media executive in custody on terrorism charge

Turkey's main opposition to challenge new police powers in top court

Analysis & Opinion

Factbox: Turkish government’s battle with U.S.-based Muslim cleric Gülen
A round of ammunition – and applause

Cyclical Consumer Goods »

* Erdogan accuses preacher of trying to topple him

* Top media executive linked to Gulen held on terrorism charge (Adds comment from Gulen associate)

By Ece Toksabay and Ayla Jean Yackley

ISTANBUL, Dec 19 (Reuters) - A Turkish court issued an arrest warrant on Friday for U.S.-based Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen whose followers are accused by President Tayyip Erdogan of leading a terrorist plot to seize power, according to media.

The warrant takes Erdogan's campaign to root out Gulen supporters, including purges of the judiciary and police, to the international arena potentially testing strained relations with Washington. Newspapers said a prosecutor, filing for the warrant, accused him of leading a terrorist gang.

Gulen has lived in self-imposed exile in Pennsylvania since 1999. He was a close ally of Erdogan in the early years after his ruling AK Party took power in 2002 but has been in open conflict with him since a graft investigation emerged a year ago targeting the then-prime minister's inner circle.

Erdogan portrays the investigation as part of a coup attempt and describes Gulen's followers as traitors and terrorists - all charges that Gulen, who runs a vast network of schools and business enterprises in Turkey and abroad, denies.

Officials at Gulen's headquarters in Saylorsburg, Pennsylvania, a complex set in woodland, were not immediately available for comment. But Alp Aslandogan, a New York-based Turkish academic and close associate of Gulen, described the accusations against him as ludicrous.

"It's not a surprise except in the sense of how low the Erdogan regime will go for the sake of absolute power and intimidation," Aslandogan said.

Courts have dropped the corruption cases, critics at home and in the West citing that as evidence Erdogan is stripping the judiciary of its independence.

In his request for a warrant, the prosecutor accused Gulen of heading a criminal gang. The charges include operating an armed terror group, which carries a penalty of up to 15 years in prison, media including Aksam newspaper said.

"These days it is very easy to be called a traitor," said Abdulhamit Bilici of Zaman, a newspaper close to Gulen's movement.

Ankara can now apply to Washington for Gulen's extradition, with no guarantee of success. Erdogan's image in the West, once that of a moderate reformer, has been eroded as his open intolerance of opposition and of criticism has grown.

A court remanded Hidayet Karaca, who heads Samanyolu Television which is close to Gulen, and three other people in custody on accusations of belonging to a terrorist group.

The European Union, which Turkey is seeking to join, said last weekend's police raids on media workers violated European values. Erdogan told the bloc to mind its own business.
.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:49 am

Doc wrote:.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/ ... ET20141219

.

Turkish court issues arrest warrant for U.S.-based Erdogan rival, media reports

.


.



Some time ago, Turkey realized West, America, retreating from that space

So, Turkey started making plans for "day after"

When, more and more, signs of Western retreat piled up, Turkey warmed up to Russia, Iran and others in easterly direction

Result was helping Iran to beat Western sanctions (among others, paying in Gold for Iranian Gas)

Ejecting Zionists

and

climbing in bed with Putin, South Stream Pipeline making Turkey sitting @ Russian Gas valve to (eastern) Europe

To counter the above,

West activated CIA operative "U.S.-based Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen"

West knows Turkey could exit NATO and move closer to Russia and Iran

"U.S.-based Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen" is groomed for "eventuality" :lol:

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Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:55 pm

.

In the good old days, when Ibrahim was active participant B4 he was pissed off and left, I always argued
Turkey's future is towards EAST and not WEST

Well,

Turkey Reducing Security Ties with West,
Turning to East



On the whole, it seems that as the new century goes on, Turkey and the West – with the NATO as its military arm – are not able to maintain the strategic relations of the past, which were based on a realistic logic.



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Re: Turkey

Postby HAL 10000 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:17 am

.

In the good old days, when Ibrahim was active participant B4 he was pissed off and left,



Since I was absent for a while, I didn't realize that Ibrahim left because he got angry at something.
May I ask what angered him?
Apparently he does not accept any criticism in any paradigm.

But most notably, it was the double standards of Ibrahim that worried me most. When Colonel Sun joked (because of the current violence in the Middle East) that the Middle East is the "Muddled East", I did not get offended even though I am a supporter of Israel, because I know that Israel is not perfect, but then the furious Ibrahim lashed and said that given Colonel Sun's Japanese background he has no right to criticize the Middle East because Japan committed massacres and crimes against humanity during World War II, insinuating that the modern Japan is accountable for the events of World War II. In this case, let me remind everyone here that when I said that the Ataturk's modern Turkey is not accountable for the Ottoman killings of the Armenians during World War I because the modern Turkey as a substantially different country and its people are not the same and that all the Ottoman leaders and officers are dead, Ibrahim was very happy to agree with me.

Apparently, Ibrahim wants superiority; equality is not an acceptable option for him.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Typhoon » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:41 am

Well, one should not speak ill of the departed :wink:

At the beginning a new year, perhaps 2014, ibrahim suddenly stopped posting.
As far as I know it was nothing in particular.

I assumed that it was a new year resolution on his part.
All the world's a stage.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:11 am

HAL 10000 wrote:
.

In the good old days, when Ibrahim was active participant B4 he was pissed off and left,



Since I was absent for a while, I didn't realize that Ibrahim left because he got angry at something.
May I ask what angered him ?

Apparently he does not accept any criticism in any paradigm.

But most notably, it was the double standards of Ibrahim that worried me most. When Colonel Sun joked (because of the current violence in the Middle East) that the Middle East is the "Muddled East", I did not get offended even though I am a supporter of Israel, because I know that Israel is not perfect, but then the furious Ibrahim lashed and said that given Colonel Sun's Japanese background he has no right to criticize the Middle East because Japan committed massacres and crimes against humanity during World War II, insinuating that the modern Japan is accountable for the events of World War II. In this case, let me remind everyone here that when I said that the Ataturk's modern Turkey is not accountable for the Ottoman killings of the Armenians during World War I because the modern Turkey as a substantially different country and its people are not the same and that all the Ottoman leaders and officers are dead, Ibrahim was very happy to agree with me.

Apparently, Ibrahim wants superiority; equality is not an acceptable option for him.

.



For a period, a few posters, Monster, Doc and a few others ganged against Ibrahim .. tiring him with sort of filibuster etc .. Turks as they are, a bit dry.

At that time, I pointedly said, do not bother Ibrahim, otherwise he will stop posting .. a day or two after that, Ibrahim stopped posting.

Ibrahim was very knowledgable, knew what he was talking, never posted rubbish, no WiKi copy and post guy .. he not posting a real loss for this fora

Exactly same happened with Mr. Perfect .. he too was hassled for a month or two, and he stopped posting 2 months ago.

Lesson learned : fora, participants, should welcome different views, political affiliation, different cultures and civilizations, not matter what, communist, racist, fascist, homosexuals, Zionist, RedNeck, believers and non-believers as long as they keep a level of discussion & rules

Harassing for petty stuff, for Nickel & Dime no good

Azari would debate Spengler, Pasta, Eichman, Günter Grass, Tchingiz Khan, aDolf, BiBi, Ayatollah .. no problemo

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Re: Turkey

Postby Doc » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:13 pm

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
HAL 10000 wrote:
.

In the good old days, when Ibrahim was active participant B4 he was pissed off and left,



Since I was absent for a while, I didn't realize that Ibrahim left because he got angry at something.
May I ask what angered him ?

Apparently he does not accept any criticism in any paradigm.

But most notably, it was the double standards of Ibrahim that worried me most. When Colonel Sun joked (because of the current violence in the Middle East) that the Middle East is the "Muddled East", I did not get offended even though I am a supporter of Israel, because I know that Israel is not perfect, but then the furious Ibrahim lashed and said that given Colonel Sun's Japanese background he has no right to criticize the Middle East because Japan committed massacres and crimes against humanity during World War II, insinuating that the modern Japan is accountable for the events of World War II. In this case, let me remind everyone here that when I said that the Ataturk's modern Turkey is not accountable for the Ottoman killings of the Armenians during World War I because the modern Turkey as a substantially different country and its people are not the same and that all the Ottoman leaders and officers are dead, Ibrahim was very happy to agree with me.

Apparently, Ibrahim wants superiority; equality is not an acceptable option for him.

.



For a period, a few posters, Monster, Doc and a few others ganged against Ibrahim .. tiring him with sort of filibuster etc .. Turks as they are, a bit dry.

At that time, I pointedly said, do not bother Ibrahim, otherwise he will stop posting .. a day or two after that, Ibrahim stopped posting.

Ibrahim was very knowledgable, knew what he was talking, never posted rubbish, no WiKi copy and post guy .. he not posting a real loss for this fora

Exactly same happened with Mr. Perfect .. he too was hassled for a month or two, and he stopped posting 2 months ago.

Lesson learned : fora, participants, should welcome different views, political affiliation, different cultures and civilizations, not matter what, communist, racist, fascist, homosexuals, Zionist, RedNeck, believers and non-believers as long as they keep a level of discussion & rules

Harassing for petty stuff, for Nickel & Dime no good

Azari would debate Spengler, Pasta, Eichman, Günter Grass, Tchingiz Khan, aDolf, BiBi, Ayatollah .. no problemo

.


Ibrahim is a "Racist" He seemed to think that Muslim is a "race" which is laughable. He was closed minded and quite obstinate in his beliefs about Muslim being a "Race" That is "rubbish" But I do miss him in the sense that so much of what he claimed has been shown to be wrong. So I imagine he is glad to be gone simply because he an not be called on statements he made now that they have been proven to be wrong. But I still liked talking to him as he did have a different view even though I disagreed strongly with it. He did not make post after post of garbage trollish propaganda.

Welcoming different views I am all for. Reading propagandistic post after propagandistic post is not different views to be discussed it is simply mindless trolling propaganda that is being imposed on the readers here. I am not for that. It is not worth my time. And it is certain not worth your time to make AZ. You are only singing to the choir when you spam the forums with it.
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Re: Turkey

Postby HAL 10000 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:04 am

Turkey is getting ready for the 100th commemoration of the Gallipoli victory of 1915. But this time, the names of the non-Muslim Turkish soldiers who died in combat at this battle, have been removed from the list. This is a very negative sign, and it shows a very hostile attitude, for it means a lot more than saying that non-Muslim citizens are not only not equal, but they are not considered real Turks.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origina ... her-m.html
Gallipoli centenary marks another snub for Turkish minorities

Centenary observations of the Gallipoli campaign that ended with the Ottoman Empire's victory against the Allies sadly became another occasion to expose how the non-Muslim minorities in Turkey are snubbed. Non-Muslim soldiers who lost their lives were not saluted and their names were removed from the list of martyrs issued by the Defense Ministry.

Summary⎙ Print Hundreds of non-Muslim soldiers killed in the Gallipoli campaign 100 years ago were ignored in elaborate centenary observances.
Author Sibel HurtasPosted March 27, 2015
TranslatorTimur Göksel
The Gallipoli observances were guided by anti-minority narratives and actions that were enflamed by comparisons between the Gallipoli centenary and the approaching 100th anniversary of the Armenian genocide. Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, when he was the foreign minister in 2011, said: “We will inform the whole world about 2015. Contrary to what some claim and disparage, we will tell the world that this will not be the anniversary of a genocide but of honorable resistance of a nation at Gallipoli.”

Because of such partisan utterances, Gallipoli observances turned into ceremonies where nationalist sentiments peaked and non-Muslim minorities were utterly disregarded. For example, the List of Martyrs issued by the Ministry of National Defense omitted the names of non-Muslim martyrs although it had listed them in an earlier publication. Today, if you search for a non-Muslim soldier on the ministry's official website, you will get the message, “No record could be found.”

In the Canakkale Martyrs Cemetery, where Muslims and non-Muslims are buried together, a memorial ceremony attended by Davutoglu was held March 18. Only the Quran was recited — and there was no mention of non-Muslim martyrs.

The Jewish community held a separate memorial service for those who died at Gallipoli in Istanbul’s cemetery for Jewish officers killed while serving the Ottoman army. Addressing the gathering, Harin Niyego said Jews had contributed significantly to the army in various fronts of World War I and the War of Independence. "Many of our co-religionists lost their lives while doing their national duty on various fronts of the Ottomans," he added.

There was no official representation at the Jewish community’s observance. But the community was more upset with a TV commercial of a private company. A car tire company ran it on the occasion of the Gallipoli centennial. In the commercial, you see the hardships soldiers were experiencing because of lack of tires. The commander asks two of his soldiers to urgently find tires. The soldiers come to Istanbul, go to a merchant who resembles a Jewish man with his attire, speaking broken Turkish. The merchant demands cash payment and doesn’t give the tires. The Jewish merchant is portrayed as a cold-hearted seller who thinks of money while the nation is fighting for its survival. From the background you hear the remark, “scheming fox.”

Facing criticism, the tire company issued a statement saying its commercial was based on a factual story.

Historians say 558 non-Muslim soldiers were killed in the Gallipoli campaign that played a pivotal role in Turkey’s independence. Of every 100 soldiers killed in the war, one was a non-Muslim. Some note that with those who were wounded and got sick during the war and died later, and with those who went missing, this number could be as high as 3,000.

One of the non-Muslims fighting in the Ottoman army was Armenian officer Sarkis Torosyan. He was a capable officer who was awarded with a citation from the Ottoman government for sinking an enemy ship and heavily damaging another. While he was fighting on the front, he learned that his family was massacred in the Armenian genocide and some of his relatives were deported. He went searching for those deported and found his sister years later in a Syrian camp.

Torosyan wrote in his memoirs that he believed his family would not have been massacred if the Allies had successfully crossed the Dardanelles with their navy. According to professor Ayhan Aktar, who told the story of Torosyan, if Ottomans had lost at Gallipoli, there would not have been an Armenian genocide.

It's difficult for Turkey to come to terms with such a claim when we still pursue a policy of dismissing those pains, even aggravating them.

While this was the regretful situation this year for March 18 observances in memory of the Gallipoli naval wars, we are confronted with an even more disturbing situation for the April 25 observances to mark the land war of the campaign. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced that the April 25 observances will be held instead on April 24, the date of the Armenian genocide. It's not hard to guess that the land war commemoration will also be ignoring the non-Muslim martyrs.



Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origina ... z3XceFD82f
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Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:23 pm

.


Was there an Armenian genocide ?
It depends on Turkish 'intent.'



As Armenians today mark the 100th anniversary of the mass killings of more than 1 million of their forebears by Ottoman Turks during World War I, debate has once again flared: Were the massacres truly a genocide?

Turkey, which condemns and expresses regret for the deaths, remains steadfast in denying that they amounted to genocide. But the international consensus has never been louder in favor of the designation. Pope Francis waded into the debate last week, calling it "the first genocide of the 20th century." German Chancellor Angela Merkel's office said on Monday that her government would support a bill recognizing the massacres as a genocide – a major reversal for Germany, which is a key trading partner to Turkey.

In one sense, the debate is primarily academic. The concept of genocide as a crime did not exist during World War I, and was not formalized until after World War II, 30 years later. As such, there's no liability at stake for the Ottoman Turks or their heirs. Rather, the main consequence would be recognition for Armenians (and a stigma upon the Ottoman Turks).

Recommended: Think you know Turkey? Take our country quiz.
But despite growing international acceptance of describing the massacres as genocide, the debate is not simply a he-said-she-said between modern Turks and Armenians. Genocide has a very specific meaning, one that Turkey argues the Armenian massacres fail to meet.

The crime of "genocide" was first clearly defined and accepted in 1948 when the UN adopted the Convention On the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.

It defined the crime of genocide as:

...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the groups;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

The convention declared that genocide, attempts to commit genocide, and being complicit in genocide were all crimes. The definition is not contentious; 146 countries have signed on to the treaty.

The Armenians were clearly a national, ethnic group, and there is ample documentation of the mass deaths they suffered under Ottoman control during World War I. So how does Turkey argue that the Armenian massacres do not fall within the UN definition?

The key element that is missing, they say, is evidence that the Ottoman Empire had "intent to destroy" the Armenians.

Recommended: How do the events of World War I still affect us today? Take our quiz.
The existent case law on genocide predominantly interprets "intent to destroy" as meaning what lawyers call "specific intent." That is, those who committed the crime didn't simply intend to act they way they acted, but rather that they intended a specific result as well. It's like the difference between firing a gun and firing a gun to kill a specific person. The former was an intentional act, but it wasn't necessarily meant to result in that specific person's death. The latter was specifically aimed at an end result of that person's death.

A good example is the difference between the crimes of murder and manslaughter. In both cases, someone has died. But it is only the first case where there was a targeted intent to kill someone – the latter may have been a reckless accident.

In essence, Turkey argues that what happened to the Armenians during the war was more like manslaughter than murder. As the Turkish Foreign Ministry argues on its website, "no direct evidence has been discovered demonstrating that any Ottoman official sought the destruction of the Ottoman Armenians as such." In addition, the Turks argue, the Ottoman Empire's relocation policy wasn't targeted at Armenians because of their ethnic identity – rather, the Ottomans were targeting insurgent groups within the Armenian community.

The Turkish argument raises some obvious questions that undermine its claims. For example, if the Ottomans' intentions were only to destroy insurgent groups, why was the relocation policy implemented against the broader Armenian community?

But proof of "intent to destroy" is necessary to show genocide, and whether proof has been shown of Ottoman intent remains contentious. As mentioned above, the Turks argue that no such evidence has been found. Armenians argue otherwise; for example, the National Armenian Institute in Washington says on its website that the Ottomans arranged for relocated Armenians to be killed en masse while in transit:

The convoys were frequently attacked by bands of killers specifically organized for the purpose of slaughtering the Armenians. As its instrument of extermination, the government had authorized the formation of gangs of butchers—mostly convicts released from prison expressly enlisted in the units of the so-called Special Organization, Teshkilâti Mahsusa. This secret outfit was headed by the most ferocious partisans of the CUP who took it upon themselves to carry out the orders of the central government with the covert instructions of their party leaders. A sizable portion of the deportees, including women and children, were indisciminately [sic] killed in massacres along the deportation routes. ...

The government had made no provisions for the feeding of the deported population. Starvation took an enormous toll much as exhaustion felled the elderly, the weaker and the infirm. Deportees were denied food and water in a deliberate effort to hasten death. The survivors who reached northern Syria were collected at a number of concentration camps whence they were sent further south to die under the scorching sun of the desert. Through methodically organized deportation, systematic massacre, deliberate starvation and dehydration, and continuous brutalization, the Ottoman government reduced its Armenian population to a frightened mass of famished individuals whose families and communities had been destroyed in a single stroke.
While the Armenian deportees undoubtedly suffered under Ottoman control, the government's specific genocidal intent is difficult to prove so many decades after the events. It is possible for all the acts described above to be true while still not being targeted toward an end of wiping out the Armenian people. Still, the sheer breadth of violence against Ottoman Armenians suggests that the wrongs they suffered weren't simply a matter of chance.

Regardless of whether the Ottomans committed genocide, the harms inflicted against the Armenians would still be considered blatant war crimes and crimes against humanity today, under the Geneva Conventions. Under the conventions (adopted in 1949, shortly after the Convention against Genocide), collective punishment, forcible transfer of population, and the withholding of food and medical supplies, among other acts, are all prohibited.



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Re: Turkey

Postby HAL 10000 » Sun May 03, 2015 2:01 am

This is a recent Turkish "documentary" about Jewish conspiracies to take over the world that appeared at the pro-government television channel "A Haber".

The contents of this documentary focus on the theory that for 3,500 years Jews are plotting to take over the world with political and financial schemes. Jews are presented as the eternal sworn enemy of both Islam and Turkey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoeIzSxHofQ

But given the total control that the government has, it is unlikely that this private station developed this film without the permission and approval of the highest authorities. It appears that this documentary basically borrowed its ideas from the European antisemitic publications such as the Protocols.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sun May 03, 2015 10:02 am

HAL 10000 wrote:.

. . for 3,500 years Jews are plotting to take over the world with political and financial schemes.

.



As Henry Ford (correctly) said, it does not matter true or not, but it sure feels that way :lol: :lol: :lol:


HAL 10000 wrote:.

Jews are presented as the eternal sworn enemy of both Islam and Turkey.

.



Nonsense .. Jews no enemy of Islam .. Islam just "latest edition" of Judaism, otherwise both same

All those weird religious laws in Islam in reality laws of Judaism .. You can marry your uncle, stoning for adultery, Kosher/Harram eating "Ham sandwich", have SEX this way, woman "unclean" and many more

Reason Turks now turning against Israel is Turks now realize (Iran eating Turkish lunch) Turkish future is towards east and Israel relation a drag .. Turkey must now validate it's credential with central Asia and Arabs and Caucasus and and

Israel’s search for allies in the Middle East by Yossi Alpher, a mistake

Time not on Zionist side, HAL1000


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Re: Turkey

Postby HAL 10000 » Sat May 09, 2015 3:20 am

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
HAL 10000 wrote:.

. . for 3,500 years Jews are plotting to take over the world with political and financial schemes.

.



As Henry Ford (correctly) said, it does not matter true or not, but it sure feels that way :lol: :lol: :lol:





This is the textbook definition of antisemitism: an irrational mental state of seeing things without much concrete evidence. It feels that way because you want it to be that way. Henry Ford was famous for publishing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a proven forged document.



Nonsense .. Jews no enemy of Islam .. Islam just "latest edition" of Judaism, otherwise both same

All those weird religious laws in Islam in reality laws of Judaism .. You can marry your uncle, stoning for adultery, Kosher/Harram eating "Ham sandwich", have SEX this way, woman "unclean" and many more




Ibrahim would disagree with you, and I would agree with him because he made it clear in no uncertain terms that despite superficial geographic references, Islam is very different from Judaism and Christianity, certainly not a new edition.

Reason Turks now turning against Israel is Turks now realize (Iran eating Turkish lunch) Turkish future is towards east and Israel relation a drag .. Turkey must now validate it's credential with central Asia and Arabs and Caucasus and and

.


Turkey is not just turning against of Israel alone, long before Israel, it is turning against Jews accused of being the traitors who caused the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, and the main obstacle to the re-establishment of the Ottoman Islamic Empire and its expansion that Professor Dr. Necmettin Erbakan (the former mentor of the current president)wanted before he died a few years ago.

Here is a video where the followers of this new ideology in Turkey made a long list of the Donmehs (the descendants of the 200 Jewish families who converted to Islam several centuries ago). Professor Erbakan asserted that the Donmehs were secret Zionists who pretended to convert to Islam in order to infiltrate the Ottoman hierarchy and destroy it from inside. After so many generations of intermarriage and assimilation, the Donmehs have no connection with Judaism, and even less with Zionism. On the contrary, they converted to Islam due to an internal conflict among the Jews.

For those of you who don't know who the people in the list in the video below represent, they are/were among the most productive and patriotic people in Turkey, the best poets, writers, intellectuals, academics. At the end of the video, Ataturk's picture is added to the list, to imply that he was also one of the Jewish traitors (since he abolished the Caliphate and the Sharia law.)

If the followers of Professor Erbakan in Turkey had their way, they would fire from all universities and any government jobs those people who have Donme ancestors. This is in the spirit of the Nuremberg laws in Nazi Germany.



Note carefully that before Dr. Erbakan died, he trained millions of followers. And Erbakan relatively rarely made any reference to the suffering of Palestinians, he was against Israel primarily because of his accusation that Zionists created Israel in order to destroy the Islamic world and take over the world. He stated that Israel is planning to occupy the southern and eastern parts of Turkey.

Finally, here a a recent article written by a well-known Turkish journalist to expose and denounce the forgeries and fake accusations about Jewish conspiracies. This journalist is very courageous indeed. I am pasting the entire article below:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5608/ ... mastermind


Turkey's Supposed Nemesis: "The Mastermind"

by Burak Bekdil

April 27, 2015 at 4:00 am
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5608/ ... mastermind


"The Mastermind" is not the product of a bunch of crazy fanatics. It is a calculated move by a bunch of smart politicians who want to win votes from an inherently anti-Semitic, religiously devout Muslim population.

It is an ugly but clever move, reminiscent of the various methods applied by the Nazi propaganda machine in the 1930s, to abuse millions of minds.

Turkey's biggest enemy, according to its Islamist rulers, is not the fanatical jihadists who now neighbor their country in large swathes of land in Syria and Iraq; nor is it the thousands of "sleepers" at home -- the same jihadists who have not staged a sensational act of terror, but might yet. The enemy is not the political and military advance of Shiite radicals in the region, or a nuclear Iran. It is not extreme left-wing terrorists who only recently murdered a state prosecutor. It is not Russia, China or Western civilization. It is what President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says is "the mastermind" that tirelessly plots against Turkey.

In a December 2014 speech, Erdogan said:

"I am emphasizing this: Do not think that these are operations that target me personally. Do not think that these operations are against our government or any [political] party. My friends, the target of these operations and initiatives is Turkey, Turkey's existence, her unity, peace, and stability. They are especially against Turkey's economy and its independence. As I have said before, behind all these there is a Mastermind, which has now become part of our national conversation. Some ask me, 'Who is this mastermind?' and I say, 'It is for you to research this. And you do know what it is, you know who it is.'"

Orders taken, a fiercely pro-Erdogan television news channel, A Haber, decided to research "that." Thus, the documentary "The Mastermind" came into being. The film was first broadcast on March 15, 2015 and has been repeatedly aired since then, in addition to several pro-government media outlets posting it on their websites.

The main theme of the film is the 3,500-years of "Jewish domination of the world." It focuses on three "Jewish" historical figures (one of whom was not Jewish): the medieval Spanish philosopher and Torah scholar Moses Maimonides, Charles Darwin (who was not a Jew), and German-American philosopher Leo Strauss.

Here are some narrative excerpts from the film, which opens with images of the Star of David and a replica of the Temple in Jerusalem:

"The Mastermind, whose roots go back thousands of years, who rules, burns, destroys, starves the world, creates wars, organizes revolutions and coups, establishes states within states -- this 'intellect' is not only Turkey's curse, but the curse of the entire world. Who is this mastermind? The answer is hidden inside truths and facts that can never be called conspiracy theories.

...

This story begins in the very old days, 3,500 years ago, when Moses brought his people out of Egypt to Jerusalem. The only guide he had was the Ten Commandments... We have to look for the mastermind in Jerusalem where the sons of Israel live.

...

Maimonides... who lived in the Middle Ages believed that 'the Jews are the Masters, and all other people are to be their slaves'"


The title screen from the new anti-Semitic Turkish documentary, "The Mastermind."
The film then features several pro-Erdogan pundits, academics and journalists, commenting on the mastermind:

"As they destroy the entire world, the Jews are searching for [the lost] Ark of Covenant." says one.

"The Jews use Darwin's theory [of evolution] to assert that God created them – but everyone else evolved from apes," says another.

One claims that the Jews believe that they, the descendants of Isaac, consider themselves the masters, and that "all of us," the descendants of Ishmael, are created to serve the Jews.

And another blames "the mastermind" -- whom he identifies as the Jews as well as the U.S. (which the film earlier claims is dominated by the Jews) for both the destruction of the Ottoman Empire and for the coups in modern Turkey aimed at ousting Islamist leaders and parties.

Finally, an advisor to Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu claims that all anti-government activity in Turkey was, in fact, attempts by "a mastermind" to bring down Turkey and its government.

Sounds surreal? Not in Turkey in the year 2015. "The Mastermind" is not the product of a bunch of crazy fanatics. It is a calculated move by a bunch of smart politicians who want to win votes (and often succeed) from an inherently anti-Semitic, religiously devout Muslim population.

According to the findings of a survey by Switzerland-based pollster WIN/Gallup International, 79% of Turks identify themselves as religiously devout, compared to 75% of people in the Palestinian territories and just 30% in Israel.

Among many Sunni Turks, anti-Semitic sentiment is often a prerequisite to piety. Therefore, the film "The Mastermind" [theoretically but most likely practically too] directly targets an audience that makes 79% of Turkey -- more than 60 million people -- ahead of critical parliamentary elections on June 7.

It is an ugly but clever move, reminiscent of the various methods applied by the Nazi propaganda machine in the 1930s, to abuse millions of minds.

All you need, in this evil scenario, is a theory linking every evil to the Jews, and a large enough audience ready to buy your fraudulent conspiracy theory.

Burak Bekdil, based in Ankara, is a Turkish columnist for the Hürriyet Daily and a Fellow at the Middle East Forum.



In other words, the new Turkish policy is not just Israel alone, but the view that Jews and Israel represent the number one sworn enemy of Islam from the beginning. The Palestinian issue is not the main consideration here.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Apollonius » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:25 pm

Interesting the way in which the newly funded supposedly secular Turkish state imposed a gigantic tax on non-Muslims and an regulations which amounted to an outright prohibition of the opening of any new churches enforced since the founding of the republic.

Also, I had not paid much attention to the fact that, at least according to this author, the Hagia Sophia is likely to be turned into a mosque again soon.




Sins of the three pashas - Edward Luttwak, London Review of Books, vol. 37, no. 11, 4 June 2015
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n11/edward-lut ... ree-pashas


Review of:


‘They Can Live in the Desert but Nowhere Else’: A History of the Armenian Genocide by Ronald Grigor Suny (Princeton, 2015)


... That still left in place pre-existing foundations, allowing a dwindling number of Armenian and Greek churches as well as synagogues and schools to keep going, but in 1974 new legislation determined that non-Muslim trusts couldn’t own property that hadn’t been registered under their name in 1936. With that, some 1400 churches, schools, residential buildings, hospitals, summer camps, cemeteries and orphanages were deemed illegal and seized by the state, unless a ‘former owner’ could claim them. In 1986, under European pressure (at a time when Turkey’s accession to the EU was still treated as a realistic if long-term possibility), the laws that denied Armenian rights over ‘abandoned’ properties were abrogated. But any possibility of recovery was circumvented by a 29 June 2001 order by the land registry authority which effectively transferred all remaining ‘abandoned’ properties to the government. What’s more, no information regarding property titles may be disclosed, so claimants can’t even begin to avail themselves of the nominal restoration of 1986. Such seemingly technical administrative measures have sufficed to prevent the opening of any new church (Armenian or otherwise), synagogue or non-Muslim school since the foundation of the Turkish Republic in 1923.

Today’s Islamist rulers are doing everything possible to obliterate Mustafa Kemal’s firmly secular Turkey – they are building mosques in universities where even headscarves were disallowed until very recently, and the official centennial documentary of his victorious Gallipoli campaign featured a fervently praying Erdoğan as well as re-enactors mouthing Islamic invocations while Kemal himself only flashed by as a silent image – but there’s one aspect of Kemalist Turkey that meets with their fullest approval: its uncompromising nationalism, which, though secular per se happens to define a ‘Turk’ as a Muslim Turk, treating all non-Muslim Turks as half citizens, with full obligations but few rights, and no chance of achieving political office. Kemal’s secularism, though commendable in its focus on the emancipation of women (Istanbul’s Sabiha Gökçen airport is named for his adopted daughter, who became a combat pilot in 1936) was not transitive: serenely non-believing himself, he strove to liberate the Turks from the lethargy of Islam, but didn’t proceed logically to accept non-Muslims as equals.





The author concludes with some details about the origin of the term "genocide" and some remarks about the use of that word:


One small irony in Erdoğan’s sensitivity about the term ‘genocide’ being deployed against the Turks is that he himself has used the word lightly, accusing the Chinese of genocide for their repression of the Muslim Uighurs and the Israelis of systematic genocide of the Palestinians. (He rejects International Criminal Court charges against Sudan’s President Omar al-Bashir because ‘no Muslim could perpetrate a genocide.’) But a larger irony about the Turkish denial of the Armenian genocide is that it is possible to justify it. Their denial is tainted by gross underestimates of the numbers killed – there is no valid reason to dispute the canonical numbering of the dead at a million and a half – but the genocide accusation is nonetheless legitimately disputable. The list of highly distinguished scholars who deny that what took place was a genocide as legally defined include Bernard Lewis, Stanford Shaw, David Fromkin, Justin McCarthy, Guenther Lewy, Norman Stone, Michael Gunter, Andrew Mango, Roderic Davison, Edward Erickson and Steven Katz, and although all of them have had dealings with Turkish academic institutions, none is likely to have bent his opinion to suit material interests. They are joined in their denial by the British and US governments, each of which has presented its arguments in full legal detail within the terms of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, based on the reasoning and advocacy of Rafael Lemkin, a Lithuanian-born Jewish lawyer who practised in Poland before reaching the United States, where he introduced the word ‘genocide’ in his seminal work Axis Rule in Occupied Europe: Laws of Occupation, Analysis of Government, Proposals for Redress, published in 1944. Formally adopted by the UN General Assembly in 1948, the Genocide Convention came into effect in 1951, forming the basis for a new criterion in the law of nations. Lemkin cited the Armenian case as central in his book; at that point the full scope of the Shoah was not yet fully manifest.

The argument of Lewis and the rest, as of the governments that hold out (Obama’s way out is to use the untranslated Armenian term Meds Yeghern, ‘great calamity’), is best parsed by lawyers, but its essence is that the Turkish authorities wanted to kill a great many Armenians but were not fully exterminationist. For Hitler’s Germany, by contrast, the killing of all Jews everywhere was an overriding priority: it devoted scarce manpower and scarcer resources to the task (every rail wagon that carried Jews to the camps had an opportunity cost); it used much political capital in failed attempts to extract the thousand or so Finnish Jews, and the remaining Jews of Romania after its formerly mass-murdering government changed its mind; and it even engaged in high-risk military operations to get just a few more, for example sending very scarce shipping to Rhodes, a long voyage exposed to British air attack, in order to collect its 1600 Jews on 31 July 1944, just weeks before the final German evacuation of Greece.

Evidently the aim was to kill all Jews everywhere at almost any cost. The Turks, by contrast, had no interest in killing Armenians outside their empire, and didn’t try to kill them all even within it, not deporting all Armenians from all towns (a hundred thousand were left in Bolis, their name for Istanbul), and not trying to kill all those they deported; Patriarch Zaven I Der Yeghiayan of Constantinople, for example, was allowed to plead for his congregants on repeated occasions before being deported to Mosul in 1916 without injury, whence he returned to his native Baghdad. In other words, the Turkish authorities under the Three Pashas certainly engaged in mass murder on a colossal scale, they certainly wanted to destroy the Armenians politically and they certainly destroyed many communities, whose survivors became exiles worldwide, but because they didn’t try to exterminate all Armenians, it wasn’t genocide.

Personally, I enlisted long ago with Gabriel Bragadian, and considering subsequent facts up to the present, notably the cruelty with which the wealth taxation law was imposed on surviving Armenians, I find today’s official Turkish position (‘there were killings on both sides’) downright absurd, though too sinister to be laughable. As for the Genocide Convention, I spit on it, given all the difference it has made to the fate of the Cambodians, Rwandan Tutsis, Sarajevo Bosnians and indeed every beleaguered ex-Yugoslav population.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Endovelico » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:01 pm

Turkey's Vote 2015

Eleições Turquia (2015).JPG
Eleições Turquia (2015).JPG (42.85 KiB) Viewed 942 times


If I read it well, the AKP (in power) did not get the majority of seats in parliament which means that the opposition, if they decided to get together, could form a government. Remarkable is the Kurdish vote, which with 12.8% of the vote easily exceeded the 10% threshold to enter Parliament. It will be interesting to follow.
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Re: Turkey

Postby Endovelico » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:19 pm

Syrian Kurds Claim Capturing 3 Turkish Special Forces in Kobani
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.as ... 0405000591

TEHRAN (FNA)- The Syrian Kurdish forces claimed that they have captured three Turkish special forces during the ISIL attack on the town of Kobani, media reports said.

The Turkish forces were captured by the Kurdish fighters while they were accompanying the ISIL terrorists in their attacks on Kobani, the Salmani Times news website reported.

Image

The Syrian TV reported on Thursday that the ISIL managed to return to the border town of Kobani through Turkey.

The report said that the terrorists reentered the Kurdish city through coordination with the Turkish intelligence-security apparatus.

The clashes between the Kurdish forces of Kobani along with other Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG) and the ISIL terrorists started again on Thursday morning.

The ISIL was forced out of Kobani and then the Kurdish peshmerga forces left the key Syrian town in April following a half-year deployment to fight terrorists.

The peshmerga, who had first deployed to Kobani in late October last year, successfully helped defeat the ISIL terrorists in the battle for the strategic town.

Syria has been grappling with a deadly crisis since March 2011. The violence fuelled by Takfiri groups has so far claimed the lives of over 200,000 people, according to reports. New figures show that over 76,000 people, including thousands of children, lost their lives in Syria last year.

Over 7.2 million Syrians have also become internally displaced due to the ongoing crisis, according to the United Nations.

ISIL, with members from several western countries, controls parts of Syria and Iraq, and has been carrying out horrific acts of violence such as public decapitations and crucifixions against all communities such as Shiites, Sunnis, Kurds, and Christians.


Embarrassing...
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