Sunni vs Shiite

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Doc
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Sunni vs Shiite

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http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/bre91g ... n-shiites/
Pakistan faces growing anger over sectarian bombings

By Gul YousufzaiPosted 2013/02/17 at 7:40 am EST

QUETTA, Pakistan, Feb. 17, 2013 (Reuters) — Pakistan's unpopular government, which is gearing up for elections expected within months, faced growing anger on Sunday for failing to deliver stability after a sectarian bombing in the city of Quetta killed 81 people.

The nuclear-armed country's leaders have done little to contain hardline Sunni Muslim groups which have stepped up a campaign of bombings and assassinations of minority Shi'ites.

On Saturday, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ), seen as the most ruthless Sunni sectarian group, claimed responsibility for the attack in Quetta, which deepened suspicions among Shi'ites that Pakistan's intelligence agencies were turning a blind eye to the bloodshed or even supporting extremists.

"The terrorist attack on the Hazara Shi'ite community in Quetta is a failure of the intelligence and security forces," Nawab Zulfiqar Ali Magsi, governor of Baluchistan province, said while touring a hospital.

Leaders of the ethnic Shi'ite Hazara community called on the government to take decisive action, and Pakistanis warned that sectarian violence was spiraling out of control.

"The government is responsible for terrorist attacks and killings in the Hazara community because its security forces have not conducted operations against extremist groups," said Aziz Hazara, vice president of the Hazara Democratic Party.

"We are giving the government 48 hours to arrest the culprits involved in the killing of our people and after that we will launch strong protests."

The death toll from Saturday's bombing rose overnight, with most of the casualties in the main bazaar of the town, capital of Baluchistan, near the border with Afghanistan.

Most of the dead were Hazaras. A senior security official said the figure could rise as 20 people were critically wounded.

On Sunday, people searched for survivors under blocks of cement torn off buildings by the blast. A large blood stain could be seen on a wall near the site.

Many shops and bazaars were closed. Relatives of the wounded responded for an appeal for blood made by hospitals.

"The government knows exactly who is doing what and who is behind all this," said Mohammad Imran, a local trader. "If the government wants (to prevent it), no one can take even a kitchen knife into any market."

In the capital Islamabad, about 400 people, including some Sunnis, staged a protest demanding the government to stamp out extremism.

"There is a law of the jungle, but in this country I think there is not even a law of the jungle," said Syed Abbas Naqvi, a Shi'ite.

"A person who is extremely helpless, vulnerable and powerless is always made the target of barbarity whereas all brutal people like the terrorists, Taliban and others who carry out these merciless acts...roam free all over the country."

Protests were also held in other cities, including the commercial capital Karachi, and in Quetta.

POVERTY, CORRUPTION, POWER CUTS

Public anger has been growing over a host of other issues in the run-up to elections, from widespread poverty to power cuts to corruption. But waves of major sectarian attacks have highlighted its poor track record on security.

Critics say Pakistan's intelligence agencies previously supported groups like LeJ to fight against Indian forces in Kashmir and failed subsequently to control them.

Now Shi'ites in Quetta and other cities say they are under siege. "We have grown tired of picking up the bodies of our loved ones," said Nasir Ali, 45, a government employee. "I have lost three family members so far in such blasts."

LeJ has also said it was behind a bombing last month in Quetta which killed nearly 100 people, one of Pakistan's worst sectarian attacks.

After that incident, Shi'ite leaders called on Pakistan's military to take over security in Quetta and take on the LeJ.

Sectarian violence is piling pressure on the U.S.-backed administration, which already faces a Taliban insurgency, to ensure stability.

"Unless we decide to unite, we will continue to get killed, said Malik Afzal, a Sunni student. "Today they (Shi'ites) have died. Tomorrow we (Sunni Muslims) will die. The next day, others will get killed."

Pakistani intelligence officials say extremist groups, led by LeJ, want to destabilize the nation through sectarian violence and pave the way for a Sunni theocracy.

More than 400 Shi'ites were killed in Pakistan last year, many by hitmen or bombs. Some hardline Shi'ite groups have struck back by killing Sunni clerics.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Sunni vs Shite

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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/18/world ... .html?_r=0
Blasts Across Baghdad Kill at Least 21
By DURAID ADNAN
Published: February 17, 2013

A wave of attacks targeting Shiite neighborhoods in Baghdad on Sunday killed at least 21 people and wounded 125, a security source said.

Four car bombs exploded in Sadr City, targeting civilians in a market, at a bus station and on a major road, killing seven civilians and wounding more than 30 others, according to officials and a security source.

Car bombs also struck in Husseiniya, Al Ameen and Kamaliya, leaving a total of at least seven dead and 32 injured in those areas.

In the central Baghdad neighborhood of Karrada, close to the Babil Hotel, a roadside bomb killed one person and wounded five others.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Sunni vs Shite

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http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 424653.ece
Hazara Shias refuse to bury dead as blast toll reaches 84

The death toll in Saturday’s bomb blast near Hazara Town in Quetta climbed to 84 and triggered another wave of protest across the country against sectarian violence and the inability of the powers that be to round up the terrorists unleashing such carnage with regular impunity.

Most of the dead were Hazara Shias, a community that has been repeatedly targeted over the past couple of years. The dead included many women and children, some of whom were charred beyond recognition because of the fire that followed the massive explosion heard all over Quetta.

The banned Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ) claimed responsibility for the attack and said the target was the Shia community of Hazara Town. Members of the Hazara Shia community picketed a thoroughfare of Quetta on Sunday demanding action against LeJ and refusing to bury those killed until those responsible were rounded up.

A similar protest in January following serial blasts in Quetta targeting the Hazara Shias saw the federal government dismiss the provincial government and declare Governor’s Rule in Balochistan. Since Governor’s Rule and more powers to the security forces in the province have had little impact on sectarian violence, the Hazara Shias this time round have become more vocal in demanding action against LeJ despite the inherent risks in naming the organisation that wants Shias to be declared ‘infidels’ in Pakistan.

Even as protests spread to different parts of the country — including Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi — mass graves were dug in Quetta for the burial of those killed in the blast. Emotionally drained by the unrelenting attack on their community, the Hazara Shias lamented that they now had no burial space for their dead — such is the rate at which they are being killed.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Ibrahim
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Re: Sunni vs Shiite

Post by Ibrahim »

You're blurring together issues that aren't really related. The situation in Pakistan, especially vis the ISI, is more complicated than "Sunni vs. Shiite," though the Iraqi discord does break more neatly down sectarian lines, due in no small part to the meddling of the US and Iran to encourage precisely that result. LeJ is overtly sectarian, but there is also an ethnic component there, not to mention that they are equally suspicious of many (most?) other Sunnis that aren't hardline enough for their tastes.


In short, this might not be the most coherent collection of incidents, perhaps better confined to their respective national threads, where current events and local peculiarities can be considered within that unique context.
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Re: Sunni vs Shiite

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Ibrahim wrote:You're blurring together issues that aren't really related. The situation in Pakistan, especially vis the ISI, is more complicated than "Sunni vs. Shiite," though the Iraqi discord does break more neatly down sectarian lines, due in no small part to the meddling of the US and Iran to encourage precisely that result. LeJ is overtly sectarian, but there is also an ethnic component there, not to mention that they are equally suspicious of many (most?) other Sunnis that aren't hardline enough for their tastes.


In short, this might not be the most coherent collection of incidents, perhaps better confined to their respective national threads, where current events and local peculiarities can be considered within that unique context.
I disagree. Sunni vs Shiite has been a common thread for a long time. Perhaps it should have been more AL Qaeda vs Shiite but Al Qaeda is a Sunni terrorist organization. The object of a terrorist group is to silence those with differing views. Sunni's in several countries have committed the bulk of the attacks. This is not to say anything like all Sunnis are terrorists. Just that there is a sizable minority among Sunnis that support the silencing of those that disagree with their brand of Islam.


Image


Granted these chart only go through the height of the conflict in Iraq. However much of the deaths have simply moved to other primarily Sunni countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Yemen. Or countries with large Sunni populations

Image
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Ibrahim
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Re: Sunni vs Shiite

Post by Ibrahim »

Doc wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:You're blurring together issues that aren't really related. The situation in Pakistan, especially vis the ISI, is more complicated than "Sunni vs. Shiite," though the Iraqi discord does break more neatly down sectarian lines, due in no small part to the meddling of the US and Iran to encourage precisely that result. LeJ is overtly sectarian, but there is also an ethnic component there, not to mention that they are equally suspicious of many (most?) other Sunnis that aren't hardline enough for their tastes.


In short, this might not be the most coherent collection of incidents, perhaps better confined to their respective national threads, where current events and local peculiarities can be considered within that unique context.
I disagree. Sunni vs Shiite has been a common thread for a long time.
But you want to talk about specific incidents happen now, not the historical evolution of the two sects. If you want to talk about something happening today, the national specifics will count for much more than "Shia vs. Sunni" in terms of understanding what it going on. Its too simplistic to be useful.


Perhaps it should have been more AL Qaeda vs Shiite but Al Qaeda is a Sunni terrorist organization.
This is also too vague by far. Al Qaeda (not a real thing in and of itself, but a Western name for a number of similar organizations) kills more Sunnis than anybody else. The majority of their violence in against other Sunnis on behalf of their ideology.


The object of a terrorist group is to silence those with differing views. Sunni's in several countries have committed the bulk of the attacks. This is not to say anything like all Sunnis are terrorists. Just that there is a sizable minority among Sunnis that support the silencing of those that disagree with their brand of Islam.
If they are both the perpetrators and victims then this metric is useless. Its like saying "most crime in America is caused by Americans, so we need to watch out for Americans in order to protects Americans." It doesn't mean anything.





(charts)

Granted these chart only go through the height of the conflict in Iraq. However much of the deaths have simply moved to other primarily Sunni countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Yemen. Or countries with large Sunni populations
Do the numbers for "terrorist attacks" include US drone strikes? Just curious.

Oh, and considering that the vast majority of Muslims are Sunnis. To have any merit you would need to demonstrate that there is proportionally more originating from one groups.
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Re: Sunni vs Shiite

Post by noddy »

Doc wrote: Image
this map seems suss to me as i really cant remember or find incidents in the northern terriroty or tasmania.

dug through wikipedia and found this which pointed to a foiled plot in melbourne and sydney as the only one sofar in australia

Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te ... ents,_2005


--edit--

oh - their was a mass slaughter in tasmania that triggered our gun laws however this wasnt terrorism it was a homegrown loner loon shooting up a cafe.
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Ibrahim
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Re: Sunni vs Shiite

Post by Ibrahim »

noddy wrote: this map seems suss to me as i really cant remember or find incidents in the northern terriroty or tasmania.

dug through wikipedia and found this which pointed to a foiled plot in melbourne and sydney as the only one sofar in australia
--edit--

oh - their was a mass slaughter in tasmania that triggered our gun laws however this wasnt terrorism it was a homegrown loner loon shooting up a cafe.
Also seems like a lot of terrorist activity in South America for "Sunnis" to be involved. We're seeing a bit of the terrorism = Muslims overlap.


Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan are notable for having ongoing wars, so again I suggest that discussing each place specifically might be more accurate than trying to make generalizations about a global phenomenon.
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Re: Sunni vs Shiite

Post by Doc »

Ibrahim wrote:
noddy wrote: this map seems suss to me as i really cant remember or find incidents in the northern terriroty or tasmania.

dug through wikipedia and found this which pointed to a foiled plot in melbourne and sydney as the only one sofar in australia
--edit--

oh - their was a mass slaughter in tasmania that triggered our gun laws however this wasnt terrorism it was a homegrown loner loon shooting up a cafe.
Also seems like a lot of terrorist activity in South America for "Sunnis" to be involved. We're seeing a bit of the terrorism = Muslims overlap.
That was almost all FARC in Colombia. Mostly ended now. a more recent update would show Mexico as very red as well.

Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan are notable for having ongoing wars, so again I suggest that discussing each place specifically might be more accurate than trying to make generalizations about a global phenomenon.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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