Why can't muslims get along with anyone even each other?

Ibrahim
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Re: Why can't muslims get along with anyone even each other?

Post by Ibrahim »

Doc wrote:But maybe I didn't ask the right question. What would it take for Muslims to learn to get along even with each other?
What will it take to get Americans to get along with each other and stop murdering one another by the ten thousand every year.
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Marcus
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Re: Why can't muslims get along with anyone even each other?

Post by Marcus »

Ibrahim wrote:Substantiate your false smears of other religions.
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noddy
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Re: Why can't muslims get along with anyone even each other?

Post by noddy »

while their is no disputing that here and now many muslim areas are chock full of fighting and chaos and it cant all be blamed on outsider meddling its a tad daft to somehow insinuate europeans (christians!?) have much of a difference in that regard.

you only need to go back to my grandfather to find some good ole "getting along" which makes the current muslim dramas seem quaint and wholesome, we call this ww1 and ww2.

never fear, if things keep going economically and politically in the direction they are going and the extreme rights and lefts keep rising like they have then it wont be surprising if we show those mozzzies exactly how a proper civil war with brutal slaughters is done..
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monster_gardener
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Having a Civil Discussion With Azari.......

Post by monster_gardener »

Marcus wrote:ALI,

With some reservations, I'd agree with much of what you say even though some of it is, I think, very overstated.

That said, it is further my opinion that the intellectual impetus driving that world was Persian culture. Islam supplied only the unifying, cultural context for that portion of the world that it conquered by the sword.

Islam, in my opinion, is utterly incapable of enervating a civilization as defined by Quigley:
This last definition means that a producing society becomes a civilization when it is organized in such a way that its patterns of relationships and behavior provide three things: (a) an incentive to innovate new ways of doing things; (b) an inequitable distribution of the social product so that there accumulates within the society a surplus of wealth (that is, wealth which its possessors do not wish to consume immediately); and (c) that the society be organized in such a way that the surplus being accumulated is used to mobilize resources to exploit the innovations being made. Such a triplex of organizational patterns is what I call “an organization of expansion”. Any producing society which develops such an organization of expansion is a civilization; accordingly, it will expand as all civilizations do, but as non-civilized societies do not.

By “expansion” here I mean that the civilization grows in four ways: (a) in population; (b) in geographic area; (c) in production of wealth per capita; and (d) in knowledge. When a civilization is expanding in these ways, we say that it is in its “Stage of Expansion”, which is Stage III of the seven distinct stages in the life of any civilization. This stage of growth follows the logistical curve of growth found in the curve of any growth process. This is the familiar elongated S-curve, whose slope, as shown by the tangent to the curve, reflects the rate of growth. As we move in time from left to right along this curve, the rate of growth increases to a certain point, after which the rate ceases to increase and soon begins to decease. In the early stages of a civilization, the rate of growth is close to zero, and the slope of the curve is almost horizontal (that is, zero); as growth begins, this slope of the tangent begins to turn in a counter-clockwise direction as the rate of growth increases. The civilization enters Stage III of its civilization process as soon as the tangent to the curve begins to turn, and it continues in this State III until the rate of growth begins to decrease, as indicated by the fact that the tangent ceases to turn in a counter-clockwise direction and begins to turn in a clockwise direction. At this point, although growth continues for a considerable period, the rate of growth is decreasing, and the civilization has entered upon Stage IV in its life-span; that is, it enters its Age of Conflict or General Crisis (Stage IV).
Thank You VERY MUCH for your post, Marcus.

Isn't it amazing that IMVHO so far we seem to be having a pretty civil discussion with Azari, a fervent devotee of Iranian Culture and Muslim with VERY Persian flavor (feel free to say this better Azari, no offense intended) despite some serious differences of opinion, but enter Ibrahim, an alleged progressive liberal Muslim, and the discord and accusations of racism begin. And even Azari laughs at Ibs.

Wondering if this has any relationship to the thread topic..........

Maybe the thread should be retitled: Why is it that Many Muslims Can't Get Along With Anyone, Even Each Other?

And IMVHO the answer in part is despite humans including Muslims and including me being Depraved Sinful Egotistical Chaos Monkeys some are a just bit ;) more so than others.....
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Shaving your own god or goddess ;-)

Post by monster_gardener »

Ibrahim wrote:Why doesn't Marcus substantiate or even explain his false smears of other religions? Its an interesting question as there are only a finite number of logically possible answers.

1. He is ignorant, and doesn't really understand the claims he is making. They just reinforce animosity he feels emotionally, so he repeats them.

2. He is dishonest, and doesn't really believe the arguments himself, but he repeats them anyway because of his animosity towards individuals.

3. He is afraid, and holds even more extreme racist views and he doesn't want to unpack the claims he has made so far lets he be exposed.

4. He is irrational, and there is no rational justification behind anything he says.


If he actually believes these claims, and has a rational basis for holding these views, there would be no reason not to support them with additional information and explanation (on a discussion forum no less).
Thanks for the post iBS,

Why doesn't Ibrahim keep making false smears on the West and other posters here? It's possibly a trivial question solvable by inspection* of his posts but let's try it more formally anyway.

Some possibilities:

1. He has a Superiority Complex, thinking himself by his own words a better man in every conceivable way than other posters here.

This may be related to the personal and cultural superiority that Mohammed told the Muslims that they had as the "Best of Peoples" or it may be a more private delusion on the order of being "A Legend in His Own Mind".

Not that uncommon a problem. Recall reading that many men and even women ;) :twisted: shave their own god or goddess :twisted: .

That sort of barbering could be especially problematic for a Muslim: apostasy. :shock: Perhaps it is a reason the more fanatic Jihadis often wear beards. :twisted: :lol:

2. He is dishonest, and doesn't really believe the arguments himself, but he repeats them anyway because of his animosity towards individuals.

3. He is afraid, and holds even more extreme views and he doesn't want to unpack the claims he has made so far lets he be further exposed as an enabler of terrorist jihadi Muslims even if not one himself as he opposes restriction of Muslim immigration.

4. He is so pompous and proud that he has become irrational believing himself capable of telepathy to know what other posters really think, divination capable of knowing the contents of unread posts, and precognition know what the religious state of the world will be thousands of years in the future. Perhaps there is no rational justification behind anything he says.

I vote for all four to one degree or another.............

*Told to me by a science teacher: If you find yourself doing a transinfinte amount of calculation, the answer can often be obtained by inspection.
Last edited by monster_gardener on Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ibrahim
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Re: Why can't muslims get along with anyone even each other?

Post by Ibrahim »

noddy wrote:while their is no disputing that here and now many muslim areas are chock full of fighting and chaos and it cant all be blamed on outsider meddling its a tad daft to somehow insinuate europeans (christians!?) have much of a difference in that regard.
But why pick on Europeans/Christians? There may be endemic murder in the US, or open street warfare between political factions in Greece and Spain, but there are also endless conflicts in Africa, South America, East Asia, and of course the Middle East. As an unluckly man once said, why can't we all just get along?

But if you're some kind of myopic racist then you can focus down to one specific group and say "Heh, what's wrong with those people?! Amarite? Amarite?"
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Re: Why can't muslims get along with anyone even each other?

Post by noddy »

i do find it interesting to contrast this with the frog boiling rants about a pussified zombie culture which passively accepts the destruction of all thats good.
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Ibrahim
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Re: Why can't muslims get along with anyone even each other?

Post by Ibrahim »

noddy wrote:i do find it interesting to contrast this with the frog boiling rants about a pussified zombie culture which passively accepts the destruction of all thats good.
I always thought the frog-boiling analogy was just perfect for environmentalism, but I usually hear it in the context of some "clash of civilizations" alarmism. Seems like a missed opportunity.
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Not a totally bad post.

Post by monster_gardener »

Ibrahim wrote:
noddy wrote:while their is no disputing that here and now many muslim areas are chock full of fighting and chaos and it cant all be blamed on outsider meddling its a tad daft to somehow insinuate europeans (christians!?) have much of a difference in that regard.
But why pick on Europeans/Christians? There may be endemic murder in the US, or open street warfare between political factions in Greece and Spain, but there are also endless conflicts in Africa, South America, East Asia, and of course the Middle East. As an unluckly man once said, why can't we all just get along?

But if you're some kind of myopic racist then you can focus down to one specific group and say "Heh, what's wrong with those people?! Amarite? Amarite?"
Thank You VERY Much for your post, Ibrahim.

If I understand you properly, not a bad post for a change.
But why pick on Europeans/Christians? There may be endemic murder in the US, or open street warfare between political factions in Greece and Spain, but there are also endless conflicts in Africa, South America, East Asia, and of course the Middle East.
Quite Right.
As an unluckly man once said, why can't we all just get along?
Because we humans are Depraved Sinful Egotistical Chaos Monkeys tending to be Killer Apes.........

But if you're some kind of myopic racist then you can focus down to one specific group and say "Heh, what's wrong with those people?! Amarite? Amarite?"
Perhaps...........

But IMVHO in practice not so much......

These things tend to vary over time..... IMVHO one is not a racist to notice that certain gangs of Chaos Monkeys are more problematic at certain times and places.

And currently IMVHO some strains of the Muslim Meme are increasing in virulence and resistance...
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Parodite
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Re: Why can't muslims get along with anyone even each other?

Post by Parodite »

Thought it was no secret that massive bloodshed is possible under any banner during any power game. But how impotent are all the "holy books" in resolving anything, bringing people to a more peaceful place! I'd say on the contrary... Where people don't get along those collections of ancient poetry and grotesque delusions better serve as toilet paper. Especially the Old Testament and the Quran are perfect sh*t absorbers (usually after they made your stomach turn). The New Testament an LSD trip for the diaper ready. Religious fanatics are so easily offended and threatened because they know better than anyone else how crippled their Unmighty Omni-absent Monarch God-head in fact is. Muslims at the throat of other Muslims is just another show case of same. Allah is not coming to the rescue of anybody. This makes the religious fanatic even more angry and violent.
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Re: Why can't muslims get along with anyone even each other?

Post by Ibrahim »

Good thing atheists never kill each other (or engage in systematic mass-murder on a historic scale), otherwise blaming religion generally would be as silly and incorrect as blaming one religion specifically.
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Parodite
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Re: Why can't muslims get along with anyone even each other?

Post by Parodite »

Atheists surely can be wonderful killers. No Allah there either who comes anyone to the rescue. Ideological fanaticism and extremism, religious or otherwise, can be blamed though. Islam produces its fair share of fanatic hardliners. Pointing it out is not singling out.
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Re: Why can't muslims get along with anyone even each other?

Post by Typhoon »

Why can't muslims get along with anyone even each other?
What exactly is the point of this type of rhetorical Spenglermannian question that singles out some group.

A reminder:

WWII casualties

Total estimated deaths: 50 to 70 million

The worst mass-murderers in history, religious or atheist, have been ideological would-be altruists convinced that they in sole possession of some Truth and thereby believed that the end goal justifies the means.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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