Syria - Russia & USA "Déjà vu" ?
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:39 pm
That's a possibility...
Time will tell.
Another day in the Universe
https://www.onthenatureofthings.net/forum/
https://www.onthenatureofthings.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=342
Thank You VERY Much for your post, Alexis.Alexis wrote:Speaking of which, I have to mention that the FIM-92 Stinger man-portable anti-aircraft missile has undergone several modernizations since the 1980s with effect of increasing its letality.
While the Su-24 and Su-25 aircraft just like Mi-24 helicopters deployed by Russia in Syria, not only have been delivered in Soviet times (none were produced later), but also have not been modernized in numbers ever since - first few modernized Su-25 e.g. were delivered only two years ago.
The latest encounter between Stinger-equipped Jihadist rebels and Su-24/Su-25/Mi-24 is not a fond memory for the Russian (then Soviet) air force. The name "Afghanistan" has approximate same resonance for Russians as "Vietnam" for Americans.
Now, this might only be idle speculation from mine...
Got me thinking.....The latest encounter between Stinger-equipped Jihadist rebels and Su-24/Su-25/Mi-24 is not a fond memory for the Russian (then Soviet) air force. The name "Afghanistan" has approximate same resonance for Russians as "Vietnam" for Americans.
This is entirely unsurprising, and it drives home how irresponsible demands to “arm the rebels” in Syria have always been. Of course these weapons are ending up in the hands of jihadists. Jihadists and their allies make up the forces fighting against the Syrian regime, and any other anti-regime group is going to cooperate with them or be attacked and have their weapons plundered by them. That was always likely to be true from the start, and it has been obvious now for years. Whether U.S.-armed groups are defeated, co-opted, or absorbed by jihadists, the weapons that the U.S. provides to its would-be proxies reliably wind up in the hands of people that the U.S. rightly considers to be terrorists.
Syria hawks have promoted the fantasy that there are “moderates” that can be turned into an effective U.S. proxy in order to get the U.S. sucked into a conflict in which it had and still has no stake and no allies worth having. By indulging that fantasy even a little, the administration’s policy in Syria has effectively provided material support to jihadists. Nothing could better demonstrate the utter folly of arming any part of the Syrian opposition, but it will probably just make Syria hawks that much more determined to keep trying.
Thank You VERY Much for your post, Alexis.Alexis wrote:
That's a possibility...
Time will tell.
Obama, who thinks he has avoided intervention in the Middle East, will finally have to return to the region once again.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said Syrian President Bashar al-Assad must be involved in peace talks to end the Syrian war.
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"We have to speak with many actors, this includes Assad, but others as well," Merkel said in a press conference at the end of the EU summit. "Not only with the United States of America, Russia, but with important regional partners, Iran, and Sunni countries such as Saudi Arabia."
(...)
Austrian Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz went further, saying that the West should involve Assad in its fight against "Islamic State."
"One should not forget the crimes that Assad has committed, but also not forget the pragmatic view of the fact that in this fight we are on the same side," Kurz said.
Alexis wrote:Merkel says Assad must have role in Syria talks
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said Syrian President Bashar al-Assad must be involved in peace talks to end the Syrian war.
(...)
"We have to speak with many actors, this includes Assad, but others as well," Merkel said in a press conference at the end of the EU summit. "Not only with the United States of America, Russia, but with important regional partners, Iran, and Sunni countries such as Saudi Arabia."
(...)
Austrian Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz went further, saying that the West should involve Assad in its fight against "Islamic State."
"One should not forget the crimes that Assad has committed, but also not forget the pragmatic view of the fact that in this fight we are on the same side," Kurz said.
Reminds me of something... where is this picture...
Ah yes, I've found it!
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HP, that image and that message was an example of a new technique of discourse recently invented...Heracleum Persicum wrote:Not understood why all this negative tone towards Putin
has Russia cause the Iraq fiasco ?
(etc.)
Alexis wrote:HP, that image and that message was an example of a new technique of discourse recently invented...Heracleum Persicum wrote:Not understood why all this negative tone towards Putin
has Russia cause the Iraq fiasco ?
(etc.)
شوخی !
(in English: humour)
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Alexis wrote:.
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Addressing a press conference at the end of an EU conference on refugees – where she insisted member countries take their share of the migrants flooding into Greece and Italy – she casually dismissed the U.S. demand that Syrian President Bashar al Assad by ousted as any part of a deal to stem the chaos behind the crisis.
“We have to speak with many actors, this includes Assad, but others as well,” she said. “Not only with the United States of America, Russia, but with important regional partners, Iran, and Sunni countries such as Saudi Arabia.”
You could almost hear the muttered oaths in Washington. Not only has the Obama administration made clear its determination to replace Assad, but the last thing it wants is to be seen once again doing deals with Iran. Obama’s drive to win agreement for his nuclear pact with Tehran split the Congress, divided public opinion, further alienated Israel’s top leadership and alarmed Middle East allies such Saudi Arabia, which fears it may start a nuclear arms race.
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Reuter
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... TE=DEFAULT
U.S. Central Command said late Friday that roughly 25 percent of the equipment assigned to that unit was apparently turned over earlier this week in exchange for safe passage within the region. U.S. officials said the Syrians continue to insist that they have not relinquished any actual weapons to the Nusra Front and that all of their personnel are still accounted for.
Air Force Col. Pat Ryder, a U.S. Central Command spokesman, said the command is looking into the incident. But the report contradicts information the Defense Department provided earlier in the day, which said reports of U.S.-trained Syrian rebels defecting and missing equipment going to the Nusra Front were incorrect.
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"In light of this new information, we wanted to ensure the public was informed as quickly as possible about the facts as we know them at this time," Ryder said. "We are using all means at our disposal to look into what exactly happened and determine the appropriate response."
The commander who turned the equipment over to the Nusra Front was one of about 70 rebel fighters who were in the second U.S. training course. He had only recently returned to Syria to fight the Islamic State militants.
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The first batch of about 54 trainees has largely disbanded. Of the 54, one was killed; one is being held captive; nine are back in the fight; 11 are available but not in Syria; 14 returned to Syria but quit the U.S. program; and 18 are unaccounted for.
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Merkel = Europe? Sounds more like a post-Nazi dream. But other than that, menowthinks:Heracleum Persicum wrote:Europe sayin enough is enough.
Merkel is articulating political points, the Russians have sent in some troops and...Parodite wrote:Merkel = Europe?
EDIT: With refugees flooding into Europe, Merkel and Hollande can no longer wait to see whether Washington's plans will bear fruit at some point.
No matter the configurations, things start get bigger past the point of no return.YMix wrote:Merkel is articulating political points, the Russians have sent in some troops and...Parodite wrote:Merkel = Europe?
In a hotel lobby in the Syrian coastal city of Latakia, five muscular Russian men sit around two small tables, scowling and fiddling with their mobile phones.
"We are visitors, that's all," one of them says, his back covered in tattoos including a large cross.
Asked to be more forthcoming, another member of the group signals they do not want to be disturbed.
A manager at the hotel, where Syrian families were gathered to celebrate the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha, is equally terse.
"I'm not allowed to tell you that there are Russians here, but you can tell they're not tourists. They say they are freight pilots. The only tourists we have here are Syrians," he says.
Moscow, a decades-long backer of the Damascus regime, has remained a steadfast ally of President Bashar al-Assad in Syria's nearly five-year war that has left more than 240,000 people dead.
It upped the ante in recent weeks with deliveries of fighter jets, aerial defence systems, drones and other modern military equipment -- some of which has been handed over to the Syrian military.
In Latakia, Assad's seaside bastion province, the growing Russian military involvement has received a warm welcome.
"Every morning, between 6 and 7, I see several Russian planes flying, and I really feel better," says Ahmad, who lives near Bassel al-Assad International Airport in Hmeimim, 25 kilometres (15 miles) south of Latakia city.
The airport, along with Russia's naval facility in nearby Tartus, have seen a major build-up in recent weeks.
"They were our friends, and now they have become our brothers -- much more than many Arabs," says Rima, a 25-year-old student.
'Melody of Russian planes'
"All of the ultra-sophisticated equipment is operated by the Russians, like flying the drones. They're the ones who train the Syrian pilots, and they're in command," says a Syrian military expert on condition of anonymity.
When rockets crashed into the airport this week, Russian forces detected the firing location and jets flew off towards rebel-held territory to "neutralise the threat", the expert adds.
The show of force has reassured residents worried about any rebel advance, including by Al-Qaeda's Syrian affiliate Al-Nusra Front.
"I'm secular and I belong to a religious minority. For me, it's the best thing that can happen because the Russians will keep the extremists from advancing," says 40-year old engineer Fadi at a cafe in the Sheikh Daher commercial district.
Latakia is the heartland of Syria's Alawite minority, an offshoot of Shiite Islam from which the Assad clan hails.
Alawites make up about half of Latakia city's 400,000 residents and two-thirds of the provincial population.
Rebels regularly fire rockets into Latakia city and a powerful alliance including Al-Nusra has battled to push into the province from its stronghold in adjacent Idlib.
"There is nothing more marvellous in the morning than drinking my coffee and smoking my narghileh (water pipe) on the balcony while listening to the melody of Russian planes," says Nafaa, a 46-year old businessman in Sharashir, three kilometres (two miles) from the airport.
'Turning point'
Adnan, an engineer aged 53, tells AFP: "Most Syrians prefer the Russians to the Iranians, because so many of them have family ties to Russia -- especially Syrian diplomats who studied in Russia and married Russians."
The flurry of Russian activity, both military and diplomatic, appears to have already prompted a significant shift in global efforts to end Syria's conflict.
In the space of just 24 hours, both Ankara and Berlin announced this week that Assad could be a part of the solution to the civil war.
And US President Barack Obama, who first said back in August 2011 that Assad "must step down", is to meet his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin for talks on Monday.
A senior official in Syria described Russia's military involvement as a "turning point" for the war.
"Russia intends to show that there is no solution without Assad and his army must be part of the fight against Daesh," he said, using the Arabic acronym for the Sunni extremists of the Islamic State jihadist group.
"Moscow wants to remind the United States that its relationship with Damascus dates back more than 50 years," he said. "It's also a message to regional countries that Russia intends to become a central player again."
“We are clear ISIL [also known as IS and ISIS] poses a threat as much to Russia as it does to Europe and other countries around the world and therefore we should be able to find a way forward to work together,” Sky News cited Cameron’s spokeswoman as saying
Alexis wrote:.
Sorry, HP ....
""In addition, they think the only interest of Russians is geostrategic, by contrast with Iranians who have a colonialist outlook and want to extend the Persian empire", he adds"
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Yup, the Russian and Iranian psychopaths care about a lot of things, but the human costs of war is not one of them.Heracleum Persicum wrote:Alexis wrote:.
Sorry, HP ....
""In addition, they think the only interest of Russians is geostrategic, by contrast with Iranians who have a colonialist outlook and want to extend the Persian empire", he adds"
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Nothing to be sorry of, Alexis .. Noblesse oblige
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Also,UNITED NATIONS — For the second time this month, Russia moved to expand its political and military influence in the Syria conflict and left the United States scrambling, this time by reaching an understanding, announced on Sunday, with Iraq, Syria and Iran to share intelligence about the Islamic State.
Like Russia’s earlier move to bolster the government of President Bashar al-Assad by deploying warplanes and tanks to a base near Latakia, Syria, the intelligence-sharing arrangement was sealed without notice to the United States. American officials knew that a group of Russian military officers were in Baghdad, but they were clearly surprised when the Iraqi military’s Joint Operations Command announced the intelligence sharing accord on Sunday.
It was another sign that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia was moving ahead with a sharply different tack from that of the Obama administration in battling the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, by assembling a rival coalition that includes Iran and the Syrian government.
Yeeeeahnoddy wrote:you would hope the russians could smash the worst of the isis types but hope seems a dangerous thing in those parts.
Adding to the United States’ concern, Russian surveillance drones have conducted about half a dozen reconnaissance missions from a recently bolstered base near Latakia. The drones have flown over Latakia, western Idlib, and western Hama, according to a senior United States official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss confidential intelligence assessments.
American analysts have not detected any Islamic State fighters in those areas, the official said. That raises the prospect that, despite its stated focus of fighting the Islamic State, Russia may take the opportunity to attack Syrian opposition fighters who are focused on battling Mr. Assad’s government and who are also backed by the United States.
Parodite wrote:Yup, the Russian and Iranian psychopaths care about a lot of things, but the human costs of war is not one of them.Heracleum Persicum wrote:Alexis wrote:.
Sorry, HP ....
""In addition, they think the only interest of Russians is geostrategic, by contrast with Iranians who have a colonialist outlook and want to extend the Persian empire", he adds"
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Nothing to be sorry of, Alexis .. Noblesse oblige
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