Syria

Re: Too late

Postby Simple Minded » Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:35 pm

Alexis wrote:Knock, Knock !

- Who's there?

- The Russian Air Force !

- We are not Islamic Sta... BOOOOMMM !


... too late :mrgreen:


well if you think about it... burning fossil fuels causes AGW, AGW causes people to get mad at each other, fossil fuels are in the Middle East.....

The only people who are against the Russian plan (supported by the Pople (FT, should have been Pope)?, are selfish people who hate both the Earth and all children....
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Re: Too late

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:31 pm

Simple Minded wrote:
Alexis wrote:Knock, Knock !

- Who's there?

- The Russian Air Force !

- We are not Islamic Sta... BOOOOMMM !


... too late :mrgreen:


well if you think about it... burning fossil fuels causes AGW, AGW causes people to get mad at each other, fossil fuels are in the Middle East.....

The only people who are against the Russian plan (supported by the Pople (FT, should have been Pope)?, are selfish people who hate both the Earth and all children ....

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ISIS .. and .. CIA trained (so called) Syrian opposition .. same people .. they all CIA trained and armed and financed.

David : What, all five of them ?

Russia apparently is bombing CIA-backed rebels in Syria. How did they find them ?

The last time we heard from the Pentagon, there were only four or five of them.



:lol: :lol:

In clear text : CIA sayin those Putin bombing are the CIA trained opposition, Putin sayin they ISIS .. meaning ISIS and CIA trained opposition same people.


Russia should bomb them all, wiping them all out.


Returning to Iran's Option


The emergence of ISIS, al-Nusra Front and other terrorist and extremist groups, and breakout of other proxy wars in the Middle East region all stem from a strategic mistake and miscalculation by Iranophobic regional and transregional actors. The course of theoretical and operational developments of strategic crises in Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Palestine, whose consequences have been plaguing other countries in the Middle East and European Union, indicate that the rising trend of extremism will have major consequences for the Middle East region.

Iraq and Syria are among Iran's spheres of influence in terms of historical, civilizational and civil society developments. The main result of the current strategic and tactical action and dynamism by Russia and the United States in the management of crises in Syria and Iraq, has been ethnic, racial and religious fragmentation as well as emergence of cultural and identity-related gaps in these countries, and has promoted role and status of Iran in resolving these crises. As put by Henry Kissinger in his book, World Order: in comparison with other countries in the Middle East, Iran is perhaps having the most coherent concept of nationality and in terms of country management, it has a profound tradition…. However, Iranian leaders have reached the Westphalian concept of country management away from the borders of Western and modern countries.

A few thousand years before the Peace of Westphalia, Iranians had formed their governments along borders much beyond the current borders of Iran as evidenced by the establishment of Median and Achaemenid governments, which were the first examples of state building by Persians more than two thousand years ago. From at least two thousand years ago up to the ongoing crises, such geographical expanses as the Persian Gulf, Red Sea, Mesopotamia, Levant, the Mediterranean, Black Sea and Adriatic Sea have been among the spheres of influence and rivalry for Iran and its neighboring countries.

Remarkable Western-Arab, Arab-Russian, Arab-Turkish, Arab-Israeli, Western-European, and Arab-Arab fronts are acting on the opposite of the Iran-based resistant front with regard to the four aforesaid crises. Therefore, under the present circumstances, Iran is the gravity center and the missing link for the resolution of tensions in the aforesaid crises. The remarks made by the UN Special Envoy to Syria Staffan de Mistura and [French President] Francois Hollande in his annual foreign policy speech to French ambassadors on the key role that Iran plays in future outlook of the resolution of the five-year crisis in Syria are indicative of Iran's profound strategic influence in future scenes for the resolution of three aforementioned crises.

Following the Iran deal, Iran has been at the center of political and diplomatic trends and solutions for three strategic crises in Iraq, Syria and Yemen. An impartial review of Iran's role in global developments during the past century, including during Iraq’s war against Iran (1980-88), the coalition war on Iraq in the 1990s, the war in Afghanistan (2001), the war in Iraq (2003), and the Arab Spring will show that Iran has continuously issued warnings about spread of extremism, violation of human rights, the issue of refugees, as well as permanent insecurity and terrorism. Iran's emphasis on the above issues is result of more accurate understanding and strategic influence of Iran in civilizational spheres around it and a result of continued, incessant and impartial role that Iran plays in these fields. As Marc Lynch has admitted in his analysis of the outlook of Middle East developments, the problem of “interventions” is among the most important challenges that this region will have to tackle.
In the middle of 2015 and in the light of strategic crises in Yemen, Iraq and Syria, Iran, as a regional power, has enjoyed a central position in big powers’ relations and also within security and political subsets of the region due to underlying reasons, various dimensions and consequences of these regional crises. Under these conditions, Iran is natural ally of the West for the establishment of peace and stability, and is an island of strategic, security, political and energy stability in the region. Iran's historical and civilizational backdrop in comparison with governments that have been made up by the colonialistic powers in the region, is one of the main reasons for the existence of stability and peace within Iran's borders.

The experience and working model of the West and East coalition, which is based on supporting the governance model of countries like Saudi Arabia, Turkey and tiny Persian Gulf states, shows that supporting such models does not have maximum desirability for [the establishment of] regional and global security, and Iran's model, which is based on a essential and correct reading of non-militant and moderate Islam should draw more serious attention as natural ally of the West and East for the purpose of partial restoration of security to this region. Therefore, the model of returning to Iran's governance model for the achievement of an comprehensive, overarching, and non-military solution [to regional crises] and restoration of balance of power to the Middle East is key to finding a final solution to regional crises in Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Palestine.

The outlook of developments, challenges, structures and actors in the Middle East will remain one of the most important items on Iran's national security agendas. Following adoption and implementation of the Iran deal, the country will turn into a crossroads for the resolution of regional crises. A large part of the solution to strategic crises in Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Palestine and key to their resolution is in the influential hands of intra-regional actors, including Iran. The option of returning to Iran and taking advantage of Iran's mediatory and constructive capacities for the resolution of crises in Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Palestine with due attention to new realities in the region and global concerns about these crises as well as growing, legitimate and globally-accepted weight and position of Iran in post-Iran deal conditions constitutes a basic option in this regard. Regional realities and strategic requirements will increasingly introduce this option as an economical and low-cost option.

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Re: Syria

Postby YMix » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:08 pm

Assad allies, including Iranians, prepare ground attack in Syria: sources

Hundreds of Iranian troops have arrived in Syria in the last 10 days and will soon join government forces and their Lebanese Hezbollah allies in a major ground offensive backed by Russian air strikes, two Lebanese sources told Reuters.

"The (Russian) air strikes will in the near future be accompanied by ground advances by the Syrian army and its allies," said one of the sources familiar with political and military developments in the conflict.

"It is possible that the coming land operations will be focused in the Idlib and Hama countryside," the source added.

The two sources said the operation would be aimed at recapturing territory lost by President Bashar al-Assad's government to rebels.

It points to an emerging military alliance between Russia and Assad's other main allies - Iran and Hezbollah - focused on recapturing areas of northwestern Syria that were seized by insurgents in rapid advances earlier this year.

"The vanguard of Iranian ground forces began arriving in Syria: soldiers and officers specifically to participate in this battle. They are not advisors ... we mean hundreds with equipment and weapons. They will be followed by more," the second source said. Iraqis would also take part in the operation, the source said.

Thus far, direct Iranian military support for Assad has come mostly in the form of military advisors. Iran has also mobilized Shi'ite militia fighters, including Iraqis and some Afghans, to fight alongside Syrian government forces.

Lebanon's Hezbollah, which is backed by Iran, has been fighting alongside the Syrian army since early in the conflict.

The Russian air force began air strikes in Syria on Wednesday, targeting areas near the cities of Homs and Hama in the west of the country, where Assad's forces are fighting an array of insurgent groups, though not Islamic State, which is based mostly in the north and east.

An alliance of insurgent groups including the al Qaeda-linked Nusra Front and powerful Ahrar al-Sham made rapid gains in Idlib province earlier this year, completely expelling the government from the area bordering Turkey.


Well, there's... hope?
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Col. Lang on Syria

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:43 pm

- The drivellers on the tube this AM insist that Obama should have pulled the trigger on punitive air attacks against Syria over the putative use of Sarin gas. Propaganda and IO are wonderful things. Any sort of "reality" can be generated with good "theming" and enough repetition. Think back pilgrim seekers for truth. The US intelligence community refused to issue a paper affirming that the Syrian government had actually done this. Faute de mieux the politicos of the Obama Administration issued their own paper asserting that the Syrian government had done this thing. There was no real evidence, just assertions. Now this "fact" asserting Syrian government use of gas against civilians is constantly cited by people like the savage woman Nicolle Wallace as evidence of the total culpability of Syria, No! I take that back. She is more interested in scoring points against Obama than anything else.

- John Kerry appeared on Morning Joe today to make various implausible claims:

* Bashar Assad (the man, not the Syrian government) is the essential problem in Syria. According to Kerry, if Assad chose to leave Syria the war would quickly end in a cease fire. For the sake of discussion let us assume that in the absence of Bashar Assad, whatever truly non-Kurdish oppositionists there be would enter into a cease fire. Would IS enter a cease fire? Would the Nusra Front do that as well? The answer is a qualified NO! They, like the Blues Brothers, (Universal Pictures -1980) are "on a mission from God" or at least their vision of God, and their God does not entertain cease fires with those who oppose the vision of his kingdom (varied) that he has given them. Short answer - the jihadis will not enter into a cease fire unless it sets them up for a final push to the Kingdom of Heaven.

* According to Kerry, Sunni Muslims will not accept Assad as president of Syria because he represents a religious minority (Alawis) and is a cruel man. Meanwhile, next door in Iraq the US is courting Sunni Arabs and seeking to persuade them to fight their fellow Sunnis in IS under command of a government in Baghdad that we brought into being. This government is run by and for the interest of Shia Arabs and has a record under several prime ministers of unlimited exclusion of and cruelty toward Sunni Arabs as well as double dealing and treachery toward Sunni Kurds. This whole line of "thought" is nonsense. Baathi Syria always had a large number of Sunnis in its structure and business world. Mustafa Tlas, the former Defense Minister and General Hikmat Shihabi the long time commander of the military are good examples. They were both Sunni Arabs and as I wrote recently there are many, many Sunni Arabs in the Syrian Arab Army. What Kerry is really saying IMO is that the Saudis, Israelis and Erdogan want Bashar Assad gone.

* Inherent in Kerry and Obama's pronouncements is an attitude that reflects the belief that the United States is the as yet unnamed World Empire of the Good and that the R2P vision of a world ruled by benevolent believers in social evolution and revolution is emerging. For people who hold such beliefs, resistance is not only futile (history is on their side - irony alert) but such resistance to the civilizing mission of the US is also evil and prima facie evidence of disordered thought. Therefore, it is clear (more irony) that such resistance is to be overcome and not accepted lest other potential resistors should take heart. Russia's resistance to the un-divine will of the emerging world order has already encouraged the likes of David Cameron to express doubt in the imperial ukase concerning Syria.

What to do?- I was asked today to state what I think should be done:

* Accept the truth that we destroyed the Iraqi state and from that act of vandalism all present chaos in that country derives.

* Don't do it again in Syria.

* Stop saying that no "Assad cronies" can be in the government or head the government. They ARE the government. Assad himself is dispensable, but not the government of Syria.

* Act like Russia, China and Iran matter as something other than rivals and adversaries.

* Ignore Erdogan's Turkey. It is a manifestation of the jihadi enemy. They will deny us use of Incirlik and the other bases? Fine, that would clarify the situation. Move onto Syrian bases or the big, unused NATO built base north of Tripoli in Lebanon.

* Ignore Saudi Arabia's wishes with regard to Syria. They are jihadi supporters.

* Ignore Israel's wishes with regard to Syria. Natanyahu's government is pursuing a mistaken and short sighted policy of eliminating coherent government in Syria for the purpose of crippling their Lebanese Hizbullah adversaries whom they think exist because of Syrian and Iranian help. The Likud's imagined interest in Syria is not America's interest.

* Accept Russian and Iranian co-belligerence in the war against the jihadis, ALL JIHADIS.

* Fully coordinate operations, intelligence analysis sharing and logistics with the co-belligerent partners.

* FIGHT THE JIHADIS, NOT THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT.


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Re: Col. Lang on Syria

Postby Parodite » Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:56 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
* FIGHT THE JIHADIS, NOT THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT.


http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semp ... l#comments


Incoherent babble.
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Re: Syria

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:01 am

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http://atimes.com/2015/10/george-koo-re ... and-syria/


George Koo responds to Goldman on Putin and Syria

MK Bhadrakumar’s report on Putin and Obama’s meeting at the UN nicely complements your observations on Putin and the Middle East. Again, Asia Times is presenting a perspective not seen in the American mainstream, which is sad because the American public needs to be better informed.

To any objective observer, Putin made a lot more sense than Obama did in their contrasting speech about Syria. IS is a metastasizing cancer that require immediate therapy and treatment will take a broad coalition of countries with vested interests in eradicating the tumor. As you indicated such a coalition will include awkward bedfellows, in particular the U.S. along with Russia and China.

Obama seems to be insisting that Assad has to be removed concurrently, maybe even before surgical removal of IS. Perhaps he has to maintain this public position for the sake of home audience but this position is increasingly not tenable. To continue the metaphor, Assad is a boil that can be lanced, orders of magnitude easier than getting rid of fast spreading tumor.

We should have learned from very recent experience in Iraq and Libya that taking out the bad guy we don’t like is relatively easy. Dealing with the aftermath is not easy; IS is just such a direct aftermath.

We apparently did learn a lesson from Iraq but the resulting solution in how we dealt with Syria can’t be reassuring.

The Obama Administration spent some $500 million to train a fighting force out of Assad’s moderate opposition. We now have a platoon of 9 fighters to show for the effort and most the American weapons have been “donated” to IS by trained but defecting moderates.

Yes, realism and pragmatism need to trump idealism. So far not enough is happening.

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:lol:

You guys should have listened to Iran

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Russian anti-terror op in Syria

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:28 am

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Re: Russian anti-terror op in Syria

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:30 pm

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.






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A mistake

IMVVHO, this should be in American foreign policy thread .. Syria does not play a big role here (this not about Syria), rather a vivid manifestation of American foreign policy failure in all Middle East and Arab world, Iraq, Libya, Syria and Afghanistan.

Russia let America free hand last 20 yrs, and the result was a catastrophe .. now Russia sayin to US, step aside and let China-Russia-Iran finish the job .. America was coned by Zionist and their agents NEOCONS.


Vladimiro, Gooooooooo :lol:

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Good Jihadists and Bad Jihadists

Postby Alexis » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:35 am

America and Western Europeans criticize Russia and say Moscow should only bomb the Islamic State, not other opponents to Assad. However, Russia is doing both.

Why?

There is presently little to no Syrians fighting for anything resembling democracy or freedom. According to some analysts, there were such people at the beginning of the civil war in 2011, but they have long been sidelined by Jihadists, or have joined them. Presently, the Syrian civil war has got three main sides - Loyalists, Jihadists outside of IS, Jihadists within IS, plus the Kurds on the sidelines.

Syrian Kurds are the closest to a regime Americans or Europeans could imagine living in, however they are only interested in securing their small regions in the north of the country - and protecting themselves both from IS and from Turkey who attacks them. They do not wish to conquer the rest of Syria, nor do they have the numbers for that - far from it.

America, France and Britain fight the Islamic State. At the same time, they support the other Jihadist forces fighting Assad. Most of the time that support is indirect, while Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey manage the direct support (weapons and finances). To America and her Western allies, there are "bad Jihadists" (IS) and "good Jihadists" (the other).

To Russia, there is no such thing as a "good Jihadist". So they strike both. In his speech at the UN on September 28th, Vladimir Putin explained why he thinks Western policy on Syrian non-IS Jihadists is unwise:
It is equally irresponsible to manipulate extremist groups and use them to achieve your political goals, hoping that later you’ll find a way to get rid of them or somehow eliminate them.
I’d like to tell those who engage in this: Gentlemen, the people you are dealing with are cruel but they are not dumb. They are as smart as you are. So, it’s a big question: who’s playing who here? The recent incident where the most “moderate” opposition group handed over their weapons to terrorists is a vivid example of that.


Putin's question is a good one. Indeed, when Western powers choose to use Jihadists for specific goals, are they sure to be the ones doing the manipulation?
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Re: Syria

Postby YMix » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:39 am

The most obvious definition of a "moderate Muslim" is one who takes orders from the West and, yes, most of them have died, abandoned the war or switched sides.
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Re: Good Jihadists and Bad Jihadists

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:52 am

Alexis wrote:America and Western Europeans criticize Russia and say Moscow should only bomb the Islamic State, not other opponents to Assad. However, Russia is doing both.

Why?

There is presently little to no Syrians fighting for anything resembling democracy or freedom. According to some analysts, there were such people at the beginning of the civil war in 2011, but they have long been sidelined by Jihadists, or have joined them. Presently, the Syrian civil war has got three main sides - Loyalists, Jihadists outside of IS, Jihadists within IS, plus the Kurds on the sidelines.

Syrian Kurds are the closest to a regime Americans or Europeans could imagine living in, however they are only interested in securing their small regions in the north of the country - and protecting themselves both from IS and from Turkey who attacks them. They do not wish to conquer the rest of Syria, nor do they have the numbers for that - far from it.

America, France and Britain fight the Islamic State. At the same time, they support the other Jihadist forces fighting Assad. Most of the time that support is indirect, while Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey manage the direct support (weapons and finances). To America and her Western allies, there are "bad Jihadists" (IS) and "good Jihadists" (the other).

To Russia, there is no such thing as a "good Jihadist". So they strike both.

In his speech at the UN on September 28th, Vladimir Putin explained why he thinks Western policy on Syrian non-IS Jihadists is unwise:

It is equally irresponsible to manipulate extremist groups and use them to achieve your political goals, hoping that later you’ll find a way to get rid of them or somehow eliminate them.

I’d like to tell those who engage in this: Gentlemen, the people you are dealing with are cruel but they are not dumb. They are as smart as you are. So, it’s a big question: who’s playing who here? The recent incident where the most “moderate” opposition group handed over their weapons to terrorists is a vivid example of that.


Putin's question is a good one. Indeed, when Western powers choose to use Jihadists for specific goals, are they sure to be the ones doing the manipulation ?

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First all those fighting Assad and Syrian army must be wiped out .. no matter who

Same should happen in Iraq .. anybody fighting Iraqi government must be wiped out, no matter who

After Syria and Iraq totally control their territory .. Syrians and Iraqi can decide who they want to rule them, Assad or anybody else

Seems to me, West, Americans, Europe, China, world powers, have already agreed on that

Looks like, Chinese military, airplanes, joining Russia to bomb terrorist positions in Syria and Iraq .. seems Iran will do the footwork.

West, world powers, came to this conclusion and agreement, after realizing things went really bad, and, Arab Amirs and Sheikhs and Kings in real danger.

In a sense, Putin came to the rescue.

That is why all powers keeping silence .. reason is, there is an agreement between Russia/US/China in this matter.

No such thing as "moderate opposition", they either killed by Islamist or escape to west.

Sheikhs and Amirs and Kings, Saudi, Ghatar, UAE, Kuwait + Turkey, will be the losers as they bankrolled and backed the islamist (to counter Iran)

Well, you guessed it, Iran will be the winner

A real possibility KSA will be no more .. things will change


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http://news.yahoo.com/syria-air-strikes ... 55170.html

French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said Monday that air strikes in Syria must target Islamic State militants but also other groups "considered as terrorists."

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Re: Good Jihadists and Bad Jihadists

Postby Alexis » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:08 pm

Heracleum Persicum wrote:First all those fighting Assad and Syrian army must be wiped out .. no matter who

Same should happen in Iraq .. anybody fighting Iraqi government must be wiped out, no matter who


"Must". "Should". But nobody will do it, HP.


Looks like, Chinese military, airplanes, joining Russia to bomb terrorist positions in Syria and Iraq .. seems Iran will do the footwork.

West, world powers, came to this conclusion and agreement, after realizing things went really bad, and, Arab Amirs and Sheikhs and Kings in real danger.


That won't happen. At least, not anytime soon...

None of the powers that could physically destroy the Islamic State is enough interested in that outcome to accept the associated costs.
- That America doesn't want to pay that cost is not new
- Neither will Russia: Putin's intervention is bolstering Syrian loyalists and should be enough to prevent their collapse, maybe enough with Iranian participation for loyalists to carve out a mini-Syria with most of the interesting regions. Russia won't do more and send 10,000s of ground soldiers, because it's not interested enough
- Europeans might be able to send betweeen them enough ground troops to terminate IS. But they are even less intereseted than US or Russia
- As for Iran, its armed forces don't have the capability to project enough power at such distance. And even if it had, the same doubt as for Russia and the others would apply

Not counting that non-IS Jihadists are not out of business yet! Saudi Arabia and Turkey are clear that they will increase their support with more weapons, probably more foot soldiers. Group of Saudi "scholars" called yesterday on “all those who are able, and outside of Saudi Arabia, to answer the calls of jihad” against Russians in Syria.

The Syrian civil war will continue for a long time. Its three main sides, loyalists, non-IS Jihadists, and the IS, have been solidified and will be further.

We may well be closer from the start of that war, than from its conclusion.
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Re: Good Jihadists and Bad Jihadists

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:22 pm

Alexis wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:First all those fighting Assad and Syrian army must be wiped out .. no matter who

Same should happen in Iraq .. anybody fighting Iraqi government must be wiped out, no matter who


"Must". "Should". But nobody will do it, HP.


Looks like, Chinese military, airplanes, joining Russia to bomb terrorist positions in Syria and Iraq .. seems Iran will do the footwork.

West, world powers, came to this conclusion and agreement, after realizing things went really bad, and, Arab Amirs and Sheikhs and Kings in real danger.


That won't happen. At least, not anytime soon...

None of the powers that could physically destroy the Islamic State is enough interested in that outcome to accept the associated costs.
- That America doesn't want to pay that cost is not new
- Neither will Russia: Putin's intervention is bolstering Syrian loyalists and should be enough to prevent their collapse, maybe enough with Iranian participation for loyalists to carve out a mini-Syria with most of the interesting regions. Russia won't do more and send 10,000s of ground soldiers, because it's not interested enough
- Europeans might be able to send betweeen them enough ground troops to terminate IS. But they are even less intereseted than US or Russia
- As for Iran, its armed forces don't have the capability to project enough power at such distance. And even if it had, the same doubt as for Russia and the others would apply

Not counting that non-IS Jihadists are not out of business yet! Saudi Arabia and Turkey are clear that they will increase their support with more weapons, probably more foot soldiers. Group of Saudi "scholars" called yesterday on “all those who are able, and outside of Saudi Arabia, to answer the calls of jihad” against Russians in Syria.

The Syrian civil war will continue for a long time. Its three main sides, loyalists, non-IS Jihadists, and the IS, have been solidified and will be further.

We may well be closer from the start of that war, than from its conclusion.

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As Assad correctly said, the intervention under Russian leadership in Syria and Iraq
will decide future of not only "Arab Space" but much beyond.

Russian underbelly is all Muslims, China's east is Muslim, same with other vital places.

All world powers, including Europe, America, China, Russia, even (not only north but all) Africa and Australia and Philippine and Indonesia, pretty much everybody, wants Wahhabi Islamist wiped out .. argument could be made that even the Sheikhs and Amirs are stuck in the mud of Islamist, same with Egypt et all

Russia just bombing a bit and than letting go will worsen the situation .. WIPE OUT is the name of the game

Notion West does not want to wipe out Wahhabism, does not make sense.

Wise would be, once Russia-Iran-China do the "rough cleaning" of terrorists in all Syria and Iraq , America/Nato too join the Russians in that space (invited-in by Syrian and Iraqi government) and help establishing a "civil" society that could last (otherwise we would end up in an "Afghanistan situation" where, after US spending Trillion dollars, Taliban coming back) .. that probably is the plan as Putin too smart to ignore western interest in that space, rather Russia & China (and Iran) would need Western help to rebuilt that space .. destroying another thing than "rebuilding".

If West and Russia join forces, if so, the New Middle East will take shape.

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Re: Syria

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:04 pm

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NATO Warns Russia After Warplane Flies in Turkish Airspace


Turkey (on behalf of NATO) is the main supporter of ISIS .. Money, military equipment and recruit is funnelled to ISIS through Turkey


“I don’t believe this was an accident,” said a senior administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to comment publicly.

“Along with quite a bit of Russia’s behavior, this just affirms our deep concern over what they’re doing,” the official said, adding that Russia’s behavior “raises questions about basic safe conduct in the skies.”



Looks to me a "warning" addressed @ Turkey .. Turkey being "destabilized"

Post Ottomanism backfiring. :lol:


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Re: Syria

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:26 pm

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Turkey threatens to 'engage' Russian warplanes


Turkey involved to eyeball into ISIS .. unfortunately, big chance Turkey will be pulled into all this .. Putin had already warned Erdogan some time ago.


Putin Issues Ultimatum, Threatens War Over Erdogan’s Support of ISIS


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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Re: Syria

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:01 pm

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MIG-29 locks radar on Turkish jets :lol:


Also Monday, Turkey’s military said a MIG-29 jet had harassed two Turkish F-16s for five minutes and 40 seconds on Sunday by locking its radar onto them.




Smart missiles and bombs Russia uses to take out ISIS in Syria

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Re: Syria

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:21 pm

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Re: Syria

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:21 pm

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Re: Syria

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:49 pm

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US Secretary of State John Kerry :

"We're greatly concerned about it because it is precisely the kind of thing that had Turkey responded under its rights could have resulted in a shoot-down,"


Turkey is the main player in arming, financing and supporting ISIS (on behalf of West).

In that sense, Russia could pull Turkey into the "whirlpool", a real possibility .. Russian fighter could routinely violate Turkish airspace provoking Turkey to shoot down a Russian jet fighter .. Russia would use that as excuse to suck Turkey into Syrian "whirlpool"

Turkey playing a "dirty" role in terrorism in Iraq and Syria

http://www.albawaba.com/news/erdogan-tu ... -vp-441673

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariq_al-Hashimi

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Re: Good Jihadists and Bad Jihadists

Postby Alexis » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:28 am

Heracleum Persicum wrote:All world powers, including Europe, America, China, Russia, even (not only north but all) Africa and Australia and Philippine and Indonesia, pretty much everybody, wants Wahhabi Islamist wiped out ..

(...)

Notion West does not want to wipe out Wahhabism, does not make sense.


There is a difference between desiring something, and being ready to pay the price to get it.

Nobody is ready to pay the price for eradication of IS. At least not yet, and there is no indication this could change in the near future.
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Re: Good Jihadists and Bad Jihadists

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:37 am

Alexis wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:All world powers, including Europe, America, China, Russia, even (not only north but all) Africa and Australia and Philippine and Indonesia, pretty much everybody, wants Wahhabi Islamist wiped out ..

(...)

Notion West does not want to wipe out Wahhabism, does not make sense.


There is a difference between desiring something, and being ready to pay the price to get it.

Nobody is ready to pay the price for eradication of IS. At least not yet, and there is no indication this could change in the near future.

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Price not getting cheaper .. either pay now or pay through the nose later.

Things happening much faster, things one could imagine would be acute in 10 or 20 yrs, already now on the table


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"Disarm" Russian forces if they continue to attack "US asset

Postby Alexis » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:53 am

According to Zbigniew Brzezinski, it is time for "strategic boldness".

To protect "wider US stakes in (the Middle East)", Washington must prevent Moscow from "highlight(ing) American political impotence", and the only real option is to "convey to Moscow the demand that it cease and desist from military actions that directly affect American assets".

As Brzezinski sees it, the best would be to convince Russia to "(seek) a wider accommodation to a regional problem" - whatever he may mean by that.

However, failing that, the Russian forces in Syria should be "'disarmed' if they persist in provoking the US".


We have here an American strategist, who whatever one may think of him is not a gung-ho bomb'em to smithereens automatic partisan of aggression, who is advising President Obama to issue an ultimatum to Russia, under penalty of destruction of the Russian expeditionary corps in Syria. :shock:
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Re: Syria

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:30 pm

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Why is the US not taking in Syrian and Iraqi Christians ?


The martyrs were faithful to the very end; right before one woman was beheaded by the terror group, she appeared to be smiling slightly as she said, “Jesus!”

..

“In front of the team leader and relatives in the crowd, the Islamic extremists cut off the fingertips of the boy and severely beat him, telling his father they would stop the torture only if he, the father, returned to Islam,” Christian Aid revealed, according to a report from Morning Star News. “When the team leader refused, relatives said, the ISIS militants also tortured and beat him and the two other ministry workers. The three men and the boy then met their deaths in crucifixion.”

They were killed for refusing to return to Islam after embracing Christianity, as were the other eight aid workers, including two women, according to Christian Aid. The eight were taken to a separate site in the village and asked if they would return to Islam. However, after they refused to renounce Christ, the women, ages 29 and 33, were raped before the crowd summoned to watch, and then all eight were beheaded.

They prayed as they knelt before the Islamic State militants, according to the ministry leader Christian Aid assists, who spoke with relatives and villagers while visiting the site.

“Villagers said some were praying in the name of Jesus, others said some were praying the Lord’s Prayer, and others said some of them lifted their heads to commend their spirits to Jesus,” the ministry director told Christian Aid. “One of the women looked up and seemed to be almost smiling as she said, ‘Jesus!'”

Grossing as much as $40 million or more over the past two years, ISIS has accepted funding from government or private sources in the oil-rich nations of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait—and a large network of private donors, including Persian Gulf royalty, businessmen and wealthy families.

Until recently, all three countries had openly given hefty sums to rebels fighting Bashar Assad’s Syrian regime, among them ISIS. Only after widespread criticism from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the international community did Saudi Arabia pass legislation in 2013 criminalizing financial support of terrorist organizations such as Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra and ISIS.

In August, ISIS was declared “Enemy Number One” by the most senior Islamic cleric in Saudi Arabia, Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdul Aziz al-Sheikh, and Saudi Arabian bomber and fighter planes joined U.S. airstrikes against ISIS. So far, Qatar and Kuwait have not followed suit.

Why is the United States not opening its doors widely to give these Christians shelter ? They have nowhere else to go.




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Re: Syria

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:14 pm

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4 Russian warships launch 26 missiles against ISIS from Caspian Sea






561507c2c36188ef3a8b4573 (1).jpg
561507c2c36188ef3a8b4573 (1).jpg (151.36 KiB) Viewed 202 times




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Re: Syria

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:56 pm

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US 'using every excuse' to refuse to share intel on ISIS locations with Russia
- military



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The US is refusing to share intelligence on Islamic State with Russia is doing everything to back out of cooperation, a spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry said.

“Our partners from other countries, which view Islamic State (formerly ISIS/ISIL) as a real enemy, which must be destroyed unconditionally, actively help us with data on bases, depots, command posts and training camps of terrorists. And those, who, apparently, have a different opinion about this terrorist organization, are constantly looking for reasons to refuse to cooperate in the fight against international terrorism," Russian media quoted Igor Konashenkov, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman, as saying.

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ISIS in reality CIA undercover agents :lol:


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