The Iraq Thread

AzariLoveIran

The Iraq Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

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State Department to slash half the enormous diplomatic presence in Iraq, a sharp sign of declining American influence.

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U.S. Planning to Slash Iraq Embassy Staff by Half

Lucas Jackson/Reuters

BAGHDAD — Less than two months after American troops left, the State Department is preparing to slash by as much as half the enormous diplomatic presence it had planned for Iraq, a sharp sign of declining American influence in the country.

Officials in Baghdad and Washington said that Ambassador James F. Jeffrey and other senior State Department officials were reconsidering the size and scope of the embassy, where the staff has swelled to nearly 16,000 people, mostly contractors.

The expansive diplomatic operation and the $750 million embassy building, the largest of its kind in the world, were billed as necessary to nurture a postwar Iraq on its shaky path to democracy and establish normal relations between two countries linked by blood and mutual suspicion. But the Americans have been frustrated by what they see as Iraqi obstructionism and are now largely confined to the embassy because of security concerns, unable to interact enough with ordinary Iraqis to justify the $6 billion annual price tag.

The swift realization among some top officials that the diplomatic buildup may have been ill advised represents a remarkable pivot for the State Department, in that officials spent more than a year planning the expansion and that many of the thousands of additional personnel have only recently arrived.

[..]

Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki’s office — and sometimes even the prime minister himself — now must approve visas for all Americans, resulting in lengthy delays. American diplomats have had trouble setting up meetings with Iraqi officials.

For their part, the Iraqis say they are simply enforcing their laws and protecting their sovereignty in the absence of a working agreement with the Americans on the embassy.

[..]

Those suspicions have been reinforced by two murky episodes, one involving four armed Americans on the streets of Baghdad that Iraqi officials believe were Central Intelligence Agency operatives and another when an American helicopter was forced to make an emergency landing because of an unspecified mechanical failure on the outskirts of the capital on the banks of the Tigris River.

“The aircraft that broke down raised many questions about the role of Americans here,” said Ammar al-Hakim, the leader of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, a leading Shiite political party and social organization. “So what is the relationship? We’re still waiting for more information.”

[..]

Americans are also still being shot at regularly in Iraq. At the Kirkuk airport, an Office of Security Cooperation, which handles weapons sales to the Iraqis and where a number of diplomats work, is frequently attacked by rockets fired by, officials believe, members of Men of the Army of Al Naqshbandi Order, a Sunni insurgent group.

[..]

In an interview late last year with the American Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, a senior official at the Interior Ministry said the United States should use the money it planned to spend on the police program “for something that can benefit the people of the United States.” The official, Adnan al-Asadi, predicted the Iraqis would receive “very little benefit” from the program.

[..]

Moktada al-Sadr, the Shiite cleric who has steadfastly railed against American influence here and whose militia fought the American military, has recently told his followers that the United States has failed to “disarm.”

Mr. Sadr recently posted a statement on his Web site that read, “I ask the competent authorities in Iraq to open an embassy in Washington, equivalent to the size of the U.S. Embassy in Iraq, in order to maintain the prestige of Iraq.”

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Look folks , why not "sublet" that thing to Iranian "Guds Force"

they looking for bigger space to move in

:lol:

1 million Iraqi children killed, so many civilians killed, all infrastructure destroyed

Mesopotamia will remember this for long long time

and

all that money pored down the toilet

genuflect


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AzariLoveIran

Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

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Wishful thinking


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Unfortunately for neo-conservatives, Iraq is no South Korea or Japan, and "gratitude" seems to be in short supply.
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:D


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Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Typhoon »

Independent | Man whose [Iraqi] WMD lies led to 100,000 deaths confesses all
Defector tells how US officials 'sexed up' his fictions to make the case for 2003 invasion
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
AzariLoveIran

Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

Typhoon wrote:.

Independent | Man whose [Iraqi] WMD lies led to 100,000 deaths confesses all
Defector tells how US officials 'sexed up' his fictions to make the case for 2003 invasion

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B4 Iraq invasion ,

a lot of (so called, probably fake) Iraqi nuclear scientist

appeared on mainstream American TV (and paper)

and gave detailed report about Saddam's WMD .. detail

Now

non of those youTube clips or reports or any trace of them can be found

all taken out of internet .. google search brings nothing

very similar thing now happening with Zionist PR re Iran

all this organized (fooling Western Joe) by USG and Brits and French (Germans not involved)


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Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Typhoon »

WSJ | The Land of Broken Promises
In 1958, Baghdad was featured in Time magazine—not as a hotbed of revolutionary, civil or sectarian strife, but for its ambitious plans for the world's most famous architects, among them Frank Lloyd Wright, Walter Gropius, Le Corbusier and Alvar Aalto, to recapture through their modern buildings the city's former glory.

After all, Baghdad had once been the most populous city in the known world, and among the most enlightened ones, albeit centuries ago and ending abruptly with a Mongol invasion in 1258. But in the 1950s it had the makings of a second golden age: more direct control over oil revenue; powerful friends in Britain and the U.S.; a new university; and a relatively tolerant government under King Faisal II. And so design talent flocked to Baghdad ready to build housing, civic centers, museums, sports complexes, campuses, libraries and an opera house—all that a re-emerging nation would need to show it should be taken seriously on the world stage.
Interesting how different things could have turned out in Iraq.

And how sad that they did turn out as they did.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Carbizene »

operation Iraqi freedumb:
THE Iraqi government is debating proposed laws that would impose strict controls on freedom of speech and association, prompting fears that authorities are playing an increasingly oppressive role in citizens' lives.

Some Iraqis are nervous that the government is moving back to the heavy-handed monitoring of citizens that was a hallmark of Saddam Hussein's rule.
paging Ibrahim, :lol:
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Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Carbizene »

AzariLoveIran wrote:
B4 Iraq invasion ,

a lot of (so called, probably fake) Iraqi nuclear scientist

appeared on mainstream American TV (and paper)

and gave detailed report about Saddam's WMD .. detail

Now

non of those youTube clips or reports or any trace of them can be found

all taken out of internet .. google search brings nothing

very similar thing now happening with Zionist PR re Iran

all this organized (fooling Western Joe) by USG and Brits and French (Germans not involved)


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Nurturing the public to accept invasion is a well crafted incremental art form. I can see it happening in real time here in Australia, over the last couple of months the number of proposed US bases has slowly increased. Now the boots are on the ground the admission has been made it is about China, only last week it was explicitly stated by the US ambassador it was nothing to do with China. It is a incremental procedure where a little acceptance is gained and then another step is made on the grounds that the last one wasn't so bad so this one won't be and so forth, until one's dick is all the way in and it's too late.
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Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Carbizene »

more freedumb from the above link:

'In Iraq, we need to respect all the ideas,'' said an activist and blogger known as Hayder Hamzoz, who is campaigning against a proposed information technology law that would mandate a year's imprisonment for anyone who violates ''religious, moral, family, or social values'' online. It also allows life imprisonment for using computers or social networks to compromise ''the independence of the state or its unity, integrity, safety''.
AzariLoveIran

Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

iwLO6tv23fM
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Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Hans Bulvai »

I don't buy supremacy
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
AzariLoveIran

Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.

Iraq orders closure of BBC and 43 other media outlets


look, folks

BBC is part of British intelligence authority

BBC was instrumental, was heart of, putsch against Mossadegh and fall of Shah

BBC was also instrumental bringing Khomeini to power

same with most of western media

they bring no good to ME


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AzariLoveIran

Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

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HoffingtonPost


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Iraq-Iran Ties Grow Stronger As Iraq Rises From The Ashes

Most disturbing to many American foreign policy experts, however, is Iraq's extremely close relationship with Iran. Today, the country that was formerly Iran's deadliest rival is its strongest ally.

"These are the wonderful consequences of our intervention -- and the brilliance of it really is mindboggling," said Chas Freeman, a Middle East scholar and critic of the neoconservatives. "The extent to which Iraq has become an active collaborator with Iran ... is really very striking."
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WANING U.S. INFLUENCE

Neoconservatives with the Bush administration imagined that post-invasion Iraq would serve as a staging ground for American military power in the region. The U.S. built about a dozen huge air bases, at a cost of around $2.4 billion, complete with long landing strips, massive fortifications and all the comforts of home. They clearly meant to stay.

They also intended to retain U.S. influence. The gargantuan U.S. embassy in Baghdad -- a heavily fortified compound the size of Vatican City -- is by far the largest the world has ever seen, and, at a cost of nearly three quarters of a billion dollars to build, the most expensive.

But even before the end of George Bush's presidency, the Iraqis insisted on setting a deadline for the departure of U.S. troops. And when Obama met that deadline in late 2011, the Department of Defense also had to turn over to the Iraqis all of those elaborate military bases.

The State Department has finally acknowledged that it needs to downsize its diplomatic presence in Iraq. Brett McGurk -- whose nomination to be the next U.S. ambassador to Baghdad was derailed by the release of some racy emails -- spoke bluntly in his confirmation hearing in June.

"Quite frankly, our presence in Iraq right now is too large," he said. "There's no proportionality also between our size and our influence. In fact, we spend a lot of diplomatic capital simply to sustain our presence."

The primary beneficiary of this colossal loss of U.S. influence in Iraq has been Iran.

The two countries share a long and sometimes tortured history. Their strongest bond comes from populations that are largely members of the Shia branch of Islam, rather than the Sunni branch, which is more common in the other Arab countries. The Shia clerics who are so influential in both countries frequently travel back and forth between the two, as well as sharing similar backgrounds and often being related by blood.

But the two countries' ethnic divisions -- Iranians are Persian, while most Iraqis are Arab -- and their fierce nationalism were exploited by Saddam Hussein, a Sunni, who turned Iraq into a bulwark against Iran, even going so far as to launch an eight-year war against Iran in 1980 that cost the lives of as many as a million soldiers.

When the U.S. toppled Saddam and purged his party's loyalists from the government and the military, Iran stepped in, providing support for both the Shia leaders working with the U.S. to form a new government and for the Shia militias that were fighting against the U.S. during its occupation.

Iraq's current prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, is particularly dependent on Iran because of the political, religious and commercial influence it has exerted in his favor -- most recently in June, when Maliki’s ruling coalition nearly fell apart yet again.

To the extent that the internal political struggle in the Middle East is fundamentally between Shiite Iran and Sunni Saudi Arabia, it's clear to the Saudis where the Iraqis' allegiance lies. "He's an Iranian agent," Saudi King Abdullah said of Maliki in a March 2009 conversation with U.S. officials documented in a cable obtained by Wikileaks.

Maliki has "opened the door for Iranian influence in Iraq" since taking power, the king said.

Maliki still has some incentives to keep the relationship with the U.S. from going entirely cold. The State Department is still planning to spend nearly $5 billion in fiscal year 2013 on Iraq, half of it on maintaining its embassy. Iraq will also need the U.S.'s help operating the 36 heavily armed F-16s they recently bought, and it has designs on buying other modern weaponry as well.

But Maliki and other Iraqi leaders "understand that the U.S. will come and the U.S. will go," said Jamsheed Choksy, a professor of Iranian studies at Indiana University.

"People in the region know they can't count on the U.S. in the long term," he said. "If you're a Shia politician, you need Iran."

THE COIN OF THE REALM

Iraqi oil production is booming, at long last making it a major world supplier again. All that additional oil on the market is widely seen as being a blow to Iran, because it will help fill any shortfall caused by a boycott of Iranian oil.

But short of limiting its own production, Iraq is backing Iran as much as it can in the oil area as well.

Historically, there has been a split in the oil producer group OPEC between price hawks like Venezuela and Algeria, who want to drive the cost of oil as high as possible, and Gulf states like Saudi Arabia, who want to keep prices moderate.

At the most recent OPEC meeting, Iraq used its new clout to try to drive the prices up -- siding with Iran against the Saudis. It also backed a proposal that OPEC officially protest the new sanctions against Iran.

Both attempts failed, but some observers think Iraq could help Iran defy the sanctions in other ways.

"It remains to be seen whether the U.S. has enough leverage in Iraq to prevent Iraq from serving as a conduit for Iran for oil," Choksy said.

"They could, if they wanted to -- and they would never publicize this -- take Iranian oil across the border in tanker trucks, mix it with Iraqi oil, and send it out into the market as Iraqi oil," said Gary Sick, senior research scholar at Columbia University's Middle East Institute. (Iran recently did just that for Syria, when Syria faced an embargo of its oil exports but needed the money.)

Iraq's vast, unpatrolled border with Iran could also be a major conduit for illicit goods, making other sanctions ineffective.

FRIENDSHIP HAS ITS LIMITS

As significant as the alliance between Iraq and Iran is, however, it also might not last.

"Iran is far better off today with Iraq than it ever was with Saddam -- there's no comparison; but that doesn't mean that Iraq is a client state and takes its orders from Iran," Sick said.

"You have a government [in Baghdad] whose worldview is generally aligned with that of Tehran," said Michael Eisenstadt, a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. But he said Iraqi leaders are adamantly opposed to the sort of clerical rule they see in Iran.

"Iran cannot dictate to Iraq," said Reidar Visser, a research fellow at the Norwegian Institute of International Affairs who runs an Iraqi politics website. "Iraqi Shiites still see their interests as being quite distinct from Iranian Shiites."

Sick thinks the Iran-Iraq alliance could fracture over oil, especially if the embargo hurts Iran badly. "Iran's national interest would be to take oil off the market" in order to send prices up and hurt Western economies, Sick said. "But Iraq is really getting ready to play the oil game. I see this as a potential clash of direct national interests."

The neoconservatives, meanwhile, continue to hold out hope. Over at the new headquarters of the Foreign Policy Initiative, executive director Jamie Fly says "it's not clear yet" where Iraq will end up.

"I don't think it's a complete perversion of what was promised," he said. "I think it's probably a mixed bag at this point, in terms of how Iraq has developed as a regional player."

Fly also blamed many of Iraq's failings on the Obama administration's troop pullout. "The problem is that the current administration has dropped the ball, and we've undermined our own ability to help ensure that Iraq stays on a positive trajectory," he said.

"My concern about some of the Iranian influence and the role that Iraq may or may not be playing vis-à-vis Syria is in large part because we don't have a military presence there anymore, and that has weakened our hand and limited our ability to make sure that they don't get drawn further into Tehran's orbit," Fly said.

Predicting what's next in Iraq is next to impossible. In virtually no scenario, however, do things turn out how the neocons intended.

"Whatever [the war] was about, which was never entirely explained, it hasn't worked out terribly well," said Freeman, "and in fact Iraq continues to evolve in ways that are, if not fatal to American interests, certainly negative."
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well

bring it on , bring it on


.
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Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/ins ... 59755.html

Did the US cause Fallujah's birth defects?
As deformities spike in the Iraqi city, we ask if the US has been honest about weaponry used during the 2004 assaults.

New research is underway on the alarming increase in birth defects in the Iraqi city of Fallujah.

In November 2004, the US led an assault on Fallujah - a stronghold of opposition against the US occupation, west of Baghdad. Intense bombardment left many of its buildings destroyed and displaced much of the 300,000-strong population.

Eventually, the US was forced to admit that amongst its arsenal was white phosphorus - a substance the Pentagon described as a 'chemical weapon' when it was used by Saddam Hussein against the Kurds.

In addition, eyewitnesses claimed the US military used "unusual weapons".

Subsequent investigations have focused on the possible use of depleted uranium by the US for its armour-piercing qualities. The US, however, denies using such weaponry.

Research has shown elevated levels of radioactivity in Fallujah and across Iraq.

Iraqi physicians have also long reported a spike in cases involving severe birth defects in Fallujah since 2004. They have reported children born with multiple heads, serious brain damage, missing limbs and with extra fingers and toes.
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Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Hans Bulvai »

Guess who was supplying the US with intelligence to burn Falloujah??
A tragedy that seems to have been forgotten by the world.
I don't buy supremacy
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
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Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Hans Bulvai »

http://dailystar.com.lb/Business/Middle ... z24NrqHfqO
Embittered Iraqis are acutely aware of the disparity. Many blame not the United States or international oil companies, but a government they see as ineffective and corrupt.


"Go ask the government why we are living like this. It was better under Saddam," said Ahmed Saadi, another driver filling his tank at the gas station, referring to dictator Saddam Hussein, deposed after the American-led invasion in 2003. "They said they were going to distribute the oil money to the people in a fair way. It didn't happen."
I don't buy supremacy
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You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
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Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Hans Bulvai »

http://news.yahoo.com/us-senators-warn- ... 08451.html
US senators warn Iraq over Iran shipments to Syria

BAGHDAD (AP) — American senators visiting Iraq warned the Baghdad government Wednesday that it risked damaging relations with the U.S. if it is allowing Iran to fly over its airspace to deliver weapons to Syria.

An Iraqi government spokesman responded by saying Iran has told Baghdad the flights to Syria are only delivering humanitarian aid. He said the onus is on the U.S. to offer up proof that Tehran is shipping weapons.

Senator Joe Lieberman, an Independent from Connecticut, said Iraq's failure to stop the flights could threaten the long-term relationship with the U.S. as well as aid Iraq could receive as part of a 2008 strategic pact between the two nations
I don't buy supremacy
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
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Tell me who betrayed the Fallujahites........

Post by monster_gardener »

Hans Bulvai wrote:Guess who was supplying the US with intelligence to burn Falloujah??
A tragedy that seems to have been forgotten by the world.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Hans........

I do remember Fallujah.............

Including the Uz warriors ambushed, mutilated and hung off a Fallujah bridge*

Sort of made the Fallujahites abominable and odious in the eyes of Uz.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/31_March_2 ... jah_ambush

But all that Black Water ;) :twisted: aside...........

I really don't know who who was supplying Uz with intel on Fallujah............. **

Could guess that it was somebodies who wanted to get paid or really didn't like the Fallujahites........

So........ Who was it and why......?




*I wonder what would have happened if Russian Bears had been treated likewise........ Maybe we know already...... Chechnya War part 2 :twisted:

**From the Wiki, it seems the Blackwater Boyz suffered from a lack of operational intelligence..... and armor.......

Reminds me of Blackhawk Down in Somalia........ Uz troops dying for lack of armor and intel on a food run someplace where it was not really in Uz interests to be.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Helvenston


For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Might want to hire Marcus or other Alaskans as Consultants :

Post by monster_gardener »

Hans Bulvai wrote:http://dailystar.com.lb/Business/Middle ... z24NrqHfqO
Embittered Iraqis are acutely aware of the disparity. Many blame not the United States or international oil companies, but a government they see as ineffective and corrupt.


"Go ask the government why we are living like this. It was better under Saddam," said Ahmed Saadi, another driver filling his tank at the gas station, referring to dictator Saddam Hussein, deposed after the American-led invasion in 2003. "They said they were going to distribute the oil money to the people in a fair way. It didn't happen."
Thank You VERY Much for your post, Hans.
"They said they were going to distribute the oil money to the people in a fair way. It didn't happen
We may have similar problems here in Uz..............

EXCEPT in Alaska.............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Per ... d_Dividend

Maybe we lower 48 Uz and the Iraqis need to consider Alaska's example as a model........

Something tells me that might enrage a lot of people worldwide.........

Money going directly to the people instead of the wacky Iraqi or Fudderal Uz or other mis-governments...............
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
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Re: Might want to hire Marcus or other Alaskans as Consultan

Post by Marcus »

monster_gardener wrote:EXCEPT in Alaska.............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Per ... d_Dividend

Maybe we lower 48 Uz and the Iraqis need to consider Alaska's example as a model........

Something tells me that might enrage a lot of people worldwide.........

Money going directly to the people instead of the wacky Iraqi or Fudderal Uz or other mis-governments...............
Wait for it, mg, wait for it . . . ;)
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Re: Tell me who betrayed the Fallujahites........

Post by Hans Bulvai »

monster_gardener wrote:
Hans Bulvai wrote:Guess who was supplying the US with intelligence to burn Falloujah??
A tragedy that seems to have been forgotten by the world.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Hans........

I do remember Fallujah.............

Including the Uz warriors ambushed, mutilated and hung off a Fallujah bridge*
C'mon Monster... Calling mercenaries warriors detracts from the true meaning of the word. Those goons, ooops, guys are guns for hire. For the right price, even Uz would be fair game for their bullets.
Sort of made the Fallujahites abominable and odious in the eyes of Uz.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/31_March_2 ... jah_ambush

But all that Black Water ;) :twisted: aside...........
Could be argued that Fallujah had every right to resist. After all, their country and they knew what was at stake.
I really don't know who who was supplying Uz with intel on Fallujah............. **

Could guess that it was somebodies who wanted to get paid or really didn't like the Fallujahites........

So........ Who was it and why......?
This guy today is making millions in Iraq from bribes, back-door deals and much much more.
Fallujah was a bastion of resistance and Sunni pride against Shia Iran's influence in Iraq. Look for who is the biggest benefactor in Iraq today and you will find your answer.

Hmmm...Iran allowing "the Great Satan" to install radar on its soil???
...Chalabi arranged for a U.S.-financed transmitter to be installed on Iranian territory, broadcasting into Iraq.
I don't buy supremacy
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
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Re: Might want to hire Marcus or other Alaskans as Consultan

Post by Hans Bulvai »

monster_gardener wrote:
Hans Bulvai wrote:http://dailystar.com.lb/Business/Middle ... z24NrqHfqO
Embittered Iraqis are acutely aware of the disparity. Many blame not the United States or international oil companies, but a government they see as ineffective and corrupt.


"Go ask the government why we are living like this. It was better under Saddam," said Ahmed Saadi, another driver filling his tank at the gas station, referring to dictator Saddam Hussein, deposed after the American-led invasion in 2003. "They said they were going to distribute the oil money to the people in a fair way. It didn't happen."
Thank You VERY Much for your post, Hans.
"They said they were going to distribute the oil money to the people in a fair way. It didn't happen
We may have similar problems here in Uz..............

EXCEPT in Alaska.............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Per ... d_Dividend

Maybe we lower 48 Uz and the Iraqis need to consider Alaska's example as a model........

Something tells me that might enrage a lot of people worldwide.........

Money going directly to the people instead of the wacky Iraqi or Fudderal Uz or other mis-governments...............
I think that the Iraqis would be happy with clean running water, good roads and electricity that are paid for by the enormous wealth now being stolen by a very few. Oh wait, they had at one time!
I don't buy supremacy
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
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Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Azrael »

Yes they did. Thirty years ago, Iraq was the most socio-economically advanced major country of the Arab world. Most Iraqis had better housing, healthcare and education than most Americans. Now, the most depraved portions of the thirty years war in slow motion. It sickens me.
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Post by monster_gardener »

Hans Bulvai wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
Hans Bulvai wrote:Guess who was supplying the US with intelligence to burn Falloujah??
A tragedy that seems to have been forgotten by the world.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Hans........

I do remember Fallujah.............

Including the Uz warriors ambushed, mutilated and hung off a Fallujah bridge*
C'mon Monster... Calling mercenaries warriors detracts from the true meaning of the word. Those goons, ooops, guys are guns for hire. For the right price, even Uz would be fair game for their bullets.
Sort of made the Fallujahites abominable and odious in the eyes of Uz.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/31_March_2 ... jah_ambush

But all that Black Water ;) :twisted: aside...........
Could be argued that Fallujah had every right to resist. After all, their country and they knew what was at stake.
I really don't know who who was supplying Uz with intel on Fallujah............. **

Could guess that it was somebodies who wanted to get paid or really didn't like the Fallujahites........

So........ Who was it and why......?
This guy today is making millions in Iraq from bribes, back-door deals and much much more.
Fallujah was a bastion of resistance and Sunni pride against Shia Iran's influence in Iraq. Look for who is the biggest benefactor in Iraq today and you will find your answer.

Hmmm...Iran allowing "the Great Satan" to install radar on its soil???
...Chalabi arranged for a U.S.-financed transmitter to be installed on Iranian territory, broadcasting into Iraq.

Thank you VERY Much for your reply, Hans.

C'mon Monster... Calling mercenaries warriors detracts from the true meaning of the word. Those goons, ooops, guys are guns for hire. For the right price, even Uz would be fair game for their bullets.

Maybe......

On Eternia ;) , there are both Evil Warriors ;) and Heroic Warriors ;) ............

Suspect it is the same here..........

And a Navy SEAL is definitely a warrior.... for good or ill may depend on where you sit.....

But thanks for the link..........

I have been concerned about Drones being used here in Uz........ First for surveillance... but later..... :shock:

Didn't know that Blackwater was doing this here.......

Seems like nothing bad YET........

Sometimes it is hard to choose.......... Remembering that the New Orleans Police Dept. (NOPD) was pretty bad too.........

IIRC correctly (NOPD) were betraying citizens to the criminals...... and video of NOPD looting after Katrina and.......... the Danziger Bridge :shock: Shootings.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_Shootings


And thanks for the answer............ Chalabi....... and of course those master chess players, the Pomegranates/Iranians......

They seem to play for the long term Shah Mat rather than the next quarter or next election as we foolish Uz often seem to do..........
Fallujah was a bastion of resistance and Sunni pride against Shia Iran's influence in Iraq.
Sunni vs. Shia........

AIUI......... better to be a Shia (more art etc.....) than a Sunni........

But if not a Muslim.......... Better a Sunni than a Shia master as the Shia are so obsessed with ritual purity etc...... Raindrop splashing from InFuddel to Muslim are heap bad ritual pollution........

VILWkqlQLWk


Naturally there are exceptions....... There are still numbers of Jews in Iran...... None in Saudi Arabia............

And there is the horrible example of what happened to the Armenians when the Sunni Jerks :twisted: oops I mean Turks let the Kurds ;) have their evil whey ;) oops I mean way with them....... Something that like Fallujah will NOT be forgotten for a LONG time...... Maybe not ever........

Sometimes I think that separatism may have to be the answer in many though not all locations........

Kurdistan, Christianistan (probably Lebanon and parts of Syria), Sunnistan, Alawitestan (Possibly combined with Christianistan) etc........

Ultimately separate worlds (hollow asteroids, orbitals etc.).....

Wondering if, given the current ferment ;) , if Earth isn't past its expiration date ;) as a container for the Human Race.......... :(

Not sure if colonies on the Moon could be spaced :wink: far enough apart........ Maybe.............

Like you say, a Strong Man MAY make things work for a while..... SadDam ;) ......... ASSad ;) ..........but often at a high cost..........

Possible that a different environment might might change the psychology........ have read that the Arctic and Antarctic can do that.... more pressure from the environment to get along each other or at least do your job whether you dislike your co-workers or not as your lives depend on it........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Ibrahim
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 am

Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

Azrael wrote:Yes they did. Thirty years ago, Iraq was the most socio-economically advanced major country of the Arab world. Most Iraqis had better housing, healthcare and education than most Americans. Now, the most depraved portions of the thirty years war in slow motion. It sickens me.

Iraq really benefited from that post-revolutionary investment boom that so much of South America, Africa, and the Middle East saw in the 1960's and 70's. Was there going to be some kind of halt and decline? Yes, it seems unavoidable. Saddam was certainly capable of grinding Iraq into dust without US help, but as it turns out he did have US help (first for, then against), so aside from the crash they got six or seven digits of civilian casualties and possibly a civil war.
Jnalum Persicum

Re: The Iraq Thread

Post by Jnalum Persicum »

.


Turkey making big mistake thinking nobody minding the store

That Kurdistan stunt

backfiring

.

. . Russia is suddenly all over the Middle East.

Moscow announced on Tuesday that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki was in town and the two countries signed contracts worth "more than" US$4.2 billion in an arms deal that includes Iraq's purchase of 30 Mi-28 attack helicopters and 42 Pantsir-S1 surface-to-air missile systems that can also be used to defend against attack jets.

The joint Russian-Iraqi statement issued in Moscow revealed that discussions had beem going on for the past five months over the arms deal and that further talks are under way for Iraq's purchase of MiG-29 jets, heavy-armored vehicles and other weaponry. A Kremlin announcement said Maliki is due to meet President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday and the focus of the discussions will be energy cooperation between Russia and Iraq.

The stunning news will send US politicians into a tizzy. Reports say the phone kept ringing in Maliki's office in Baghdad as soon as it transpired that he was to travel to Moscow and something big could be in the works. Queries were coming in from the US State Department and the National Security Council as to what warranted such a trip at this point in time.

[..]

Washington and Ankara have annoyed him repeatedly, taking him for granted, even writing off his political future, by consorting with the northern Kurdistan over lucrative oil deals, ignoring his protests that Iraq is a sovereign state and Baghdad is its capital and that the country has a constitution under which foreign countries should not have direct dealings with its regions bypassing the capital and the central government.

[..]

Booting out Big Oil

They not only ignored Maliki's protests but also chastised him for opposing the plan for "regime change" in Syria and for robustly supporting President Bashar al-Assad. Lately, they even started needling him on providing facilities for Iran to send supplies to the embattled regime in Syria. They then exceeded all proprieties and gave asylum to an Iraqi Sunni leader who is a fugitive under Iraqi law.

They are currently endeavoring to bring together the disparate Sunni groups in Iraq in an ominous move that could lead to the balkanization of Iraq.

Kurdistan is already a de facto independent region, thanks to US and Turkish interference. The game plan is to further weaken Iraq by sponsoring the creation of a Sunni entity in central Iraq similar to Kurdistan in the north, thus confining the Iraqi Shi'ites to a moth-eaten southern region.

The Russia visit shows that Maliki is signaling he has had enough and won't take this affront to Iraqi sovereignty anymore. What is almost certain is that he will propose to Putin on Wednesday that Russian oil companies should return to Iraq in full battle cry with investment and technology and pick up the threads from where they left at the time of the US invasion in 2003.

Maliki can be expected to boot out Big Oil and the Turkish companies from Iraq's oil sector. The implications are profound for the world oil market since Iraq's fabulous oil reserves match Saudi Arabia's.

Clearly, Maliki intends to assert Iraqi sovereignty. Recently, he decided to terminate the Saddam-era agreement with Turkey, which allowed a Turkish military presence in northern Iraq to monitor the PKK separatists' activities. But Ankara balked, telling off Maliki. The Russian deal enables him now to rebuild the Iraqi armed forces and make the Turks think twice before they violate Iraqi air space or conclude that their military presence in northern Iraq could continue unchallenged.

Does this mean Iraq is on a course of strategic defiance of the US? What needs to be factored in is that the US still remains Iraq's number one arms supplier. Iraq is expecting the delivery of 30 F-16 aircraft. A strategic defiance of the US is far from Maliki's thoughts - at least, for now.

Maliki's message needs to be taken more as one of assertively stating that Iraq is an independent country. Arguably, it is not very different from the thrust of Egypt's policies under President Mohammed Morsi. Simply put, the US needs to come to terms with such happenings as Maliki's decision to revive the military ties with Russia or Morsi's decision to pay his first state visit to China. Conceivably, it could be Egypt's turn next to revive the ties with Russia. As a matter of fact, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov is scheduled to visit Cairo in early November in the first high-level exchange with Morsi's leadership.

Indeed, much depends on the composure with which the US is able to adapt itself to the new realities in the Middle East. As things stand, the US has succeeded in selling $6 billion worth of arms to Iraq. It is indeed comfortably placed. The US State Department's initial reaction exuded confidence. Spokesperson Victoria Nuland said the Russian deal doesn't signify any scaling down of Iraq's "mil-to-mil" ties with the US, which are "very broad and very deep".

She revealed that discussions are going on for "some 467 foreign military sales cases" with Iraq worth more than $12 billion "if all of those go forward." Nuland said, "We're doing some $12.3 billion worth of military business with Iraq, so I don't think one needs to be concerned about that relationship being anything but the strongest."

New, untried alchemy
But the touch of anxiety in Nuland's words cannot be glossed over, either. The plain truth is, the "Russians are coming" and this time they are capitalists and globalists; they also know the Iraqi market, while the Iraqi soldier is familiar with the Russian weapon. During the Saddam era, Iraq was a major buyer of Russian weaponry and Moscow is estimated to have lost contracts worth about $8 billion due to the US-sponsored "regime change" in Baghdad in 2003.

Conceivably, Russia will do its utmost to claw its way back to the top spot in the Iraqi market and to make up for lost time. But then, arms deals invariably have political and strategic content as well. In the near term, the "unknown unknown" is going to be whether Maliki might choose to share the Iraqi capabilities with his close Iranian and Syrian allies.

Significantly, high-level Syrian and Iranian delegations have also visited Moscow in recent months. Eyebrows will be raised that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad is scheduling a visit to Baghdad shortly. In fact, even as the Russian-Iraqi arms deal was signed in Moscow, the commander of the navy of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards arrived on a visit to Iraq, signifying the close ties between Baghdad and Tehran. No doubt, Washington will remain on its toes on this front.

Equally, Russian experts have written in the past about the emergence of a new "bloc" in the heart of the Middle East comprising Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon with which Moscow can hope to have special ties.

However, the incipient signs as of now are that Moscow's regional diplomacy in the Middle East is shifting gear, determined to bridge the regional divide that the Syrian crisis has brought about.
Of course, the enterprise seems awesome in its sheer audacity. But then, Putin is scheduled to travel to Turkey next week; Lavrov hopes to travel to Riyadh in early November to attend the second session of Russia's Strategic Dialogue with the Gulf Cooperation Council states (which was once abruptly postponed by the Saudi regime as a snub to Moscow for its dogged support for the Assad regime in Syria); Lavrov will also make a "synchronized visit" to Cairo for meeting with the new Egyptian leadership and Arab League officials.

Disclosing Lavrov's scheduled diplomatic missions, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Mikhail Bogdanov added, "We [Russia] are interested in the dialogue and open partnership discussion with our Arab colleagues from the Gulf, which, in particular Saudi Arabia, Qatar and others, play a rather active and not one-meaning role in Syrian affairs. We always favor discussion of these issues, even disagreements, at the negotiating table, especially since we have the Strategic Dialogue mechanism."

Without doubt, Russian alchemists are experimenting with new, untried formulations that may help heal the Syrian wounds. But, as Bogdanov sought to explain, these formulations are also broad spectrum medications that will help induce the overall metabolism of Russia's regional ties with recaltricant partners who are upset for the present over Syria. Ideally, Moscow would like to see that healing process is embedded within an overall enhancement of mutually beneficial economic ties.

Russia's ties with Turkey and Saudi Arabia, for instance, were going strong during the phase of the pre-crisis period in Syria. While the ties with Turkey lately have somewhat stagnated, Russian-Saudi ties have run into serious difficulty. Evidently, Moscow is keen to restore the status quo ante. The interesting part is the Russian diplomacy's assessment that the present juncture provides a window of opportunity to make overtures to Ankara and Riyadh, no matter the incessant blood-letting in Syria.
The backdrop to which this is happening is significant. In Moscow's assessment, evidently, there could be hopeful signs for a renewed approach to seeking a political solution to the Syrian crisis even though the skies look heavily overcast. There may be merit in making such a shrewd assessment.

As things stand, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are facing an acute predicament over the Syrian situation. Neither thought that the Syrian regime would have such a social base and political will to hang on; both are frustrated that any "regime change" in Syria is going to be a long haul fraught with uncertain consequences not only for the Syrian nation but also for the region as a whole and even for themselves.

Again, while there is no let-up in the dogged opposition to outside intervention in Syria, which Moscow and Beijing have amply displayed, a UN Security Council mandate for intervention is to be ruled out. Without a UN mandate, on the other hand, a Western intervention is unlikely, and in any case, the US remains disinterested while the European attitudes will be guided by their priorities over their economies, which, according to the latest Inernational Monetary Fund estimation, are sliding into a prolonged recession from which a near-term recovery seems highly improbable.

Sultan with a Nobel
In short, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are holding a can of worms containing the Syrian rebel elements that are not only disparate but also could prove troublesome in future. As for Turkey, with or without a UN mandate, the popular opinion is overwhelmingly against an intervention in Syria.

The Turkish people remain far from convinced that their vital national interests are at stake in Syria. Besides, the Turkish economy is also slowing, and a deep recession in Europe can play havoc with Turkey's economic fortunes. The ruling AKP's trump card so far has been that it steered Turkey to a period of unprecedented economic prosperity.

Increasingly, therefore, all this proactivism on Syria looks more like the hare-brained idea of the academic-turned Foreign Minister Ahmet Davitoglu and Prime Minister Recep Erdogan than a well-thought out foreign policy initiative. But even here, Erdogan's political priorities are going to change as he prepares for his bid to become the executive president of Turkey under a new constitution in 2014.

A Syrian quagmire can threaten his political ambitions, and already he senses rivalry from the incumbent President Abdullah Gul, whose popular ratings are manifestly far better than his own.

In sum, Erdogan wants regime change in Syria and he is still pushing for it, but he wants it now. He can't wait indefinitely, since that will upset his own political calendar. He is upset, on the other hand, that US President Barack Obama is not a man in a hurry and the Europeans are distracted by ailments.

All factors taken into consideration, therefore, it should come as no surprise that Putin has made a visit to Turkey such an urgent priority - although Erdogan visited Russia hardly two months ago. Putin has excellent personal equations with Erdogan. They were instrumental in taking Russian-Turkish relationship to such qualitatively new level in recent years.

Putin is a very focused statesman. He wants to revive the verve of the Russian-Turkish tango. In the process, the contract for building a $25 billion nuclear power plant in Turkey could be advanced to the implementation stage, and Russia may also secure contracts to sell weaponry to Turkey.

In the Russian assessment, Erdogan's underlying ideology in terms of pursuing an independent foreign policy needs to be encouraged, despite the recent deviations such as the decision to deploy the US missile defence system on Turkish soil.

Putin's expectation will be that within the framework of a revival of the Russian-Turkish bonhomie and taking advantage of Erdogan's travails and dilemma over Syria, a meaningful conversation between Moscow and Ankara might be possible leading to a purposive search for a political solution to the crisis in Syria.

This is the season of Nobel, after all. If Erdogan could be persuaded that he could be the first ever sultan - and probably the last, too, in Ottoman history - to win a Nobel prize for peace, Putin would have made a huge contribution himself to world peace.

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:lol: :lol:


speak of unintended consequences :lol:

well

Turkey could fall apart .. Erdogan was fooled


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