Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby Alexis » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:23 pm

Turkey 'downs Russian warplane on Syria border'

The Turkish military has reportedly shot down a Russian military aircraft on the border with Syria.

(...) Turkish military officials said Turkish F-16s had shot down the plane after repeatedly warning its pilots they were violating Turkish airspace.

Video footage showed the plane crashing into mountains in Latakia province.

(...) The (Russian Defense) ministry stressed that "throughout its flight, the aircraft remained exclusively above Syrian territory", adding: "Objective monitoring data shows it."


Great.

Note that this area, at this altitude of 6,000 meters, is well in sight both of Turkish radars, of Russian Fleet radars and of French Fleet radars.

Whatever was the precise trajectory of the Sukhoi-24 before being shot down, quite a lot of people are in a position to know.
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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby noddy » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:28 pm

interesting (tm)

the graduin has a live blog going on it now, so its officialy interesting (tm)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2 ... ve-updates
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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby YMix » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:29 pm

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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby YMix » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:36 pm

In strategic terms, a defining moment has been reached in the Syrian conflict – the “first step” in the creation of a swathe of land in northern Syria that will be out of bounds for military operations by Syrian government forces, Russian aircraft, or various militia groups such as Hezbollah who are fighting on the side of the Syrian regime.

Put differently, the race for Aleppo has begun. The point is, the Turkish-American operation comes at a time when with Russian air cover, Syrian government forces are struggling to retake Aleppo, which has been under the control of opposition groups for two years. To be sure, the Turkish demarche on Friday threatening Russia with “serious consequences” falls in perspective.

The US role in this daring Turkish enterprise remains hidden from view. Senior US officials, including Secretary of State John Kerry, are credited with privately expressing views supportive of the Turkish proposal on free-trade zone, and leading Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton has openly backed the idea, but President Barack Obama has so far preferred to stand in the shade with an ambivalence that appeared to weigh against the ‘no-fly zone’.

But if the latest reports coming from Turkey are to be believed, Obama has given the green signal, finally, for direct American military participation in creating the ‘safe zone’ in northern Syria. Indeed, on the sidelines of the G20 summit in Turkey last week, Obama and Erdogan had the opportunity for holding in-depth discussions on Syria.

Erdogan’s hard-hitting remarks on Wednesday regarding ‘safe’ zones in northern Syria – and the Turkish demarche on Friday with Moscow – could only have been on the basis of the certainty that Obama is willing to hold his hands.


http://atimes.com/2015/11/turkey-gets-toehold-on-syrian-territory-finally/
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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby YMix » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:56 pm

TOW missile versus Russian helicopter

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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby kmich » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:11 pm

Not good. Turkey is a member of NATO, so if Russia responds militarily to this action, NATO will be required by treaty to support Turkey. This could dangerously escalate into a wider, regional conflict. Hope cool heads rule in the Kremlin.
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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby monster_gardener » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:31 pm

kmich wrote:Not good. Turkey is a member of NATO, so if Russia responds militarily to this action, NATO will be required by treaty to support Turkey. This could dangerously escalate into a wider, regional conflict. Hope cool heads rule in the Kremlin.


Thank You Very Much for your post, kmich,

Not good.


Hope cool heads rule in the Kremlin.


I agree........

Though the recent French-Russian cooperation could be a complication.........
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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby kmich » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:31 am

monster_gardener wrote:Though the recent French-Russian cooperation could be a complication.........


Yes.

The strategic goals in Syria have been for the US, Turkey and France the same up until up to the last few weeks. It has been about regime change and an end of the Alawite dictatorship in Syria, and not really about destroying ISIS. Erdogan has been willing to support anyone who will support the agenda of removing Assad to counter Iran and Hezbollah and to increase Turkish dominance in the region with the cooperation and the support of their Saudis and Gulf State allies. The Turks and these state actors have been winking, nodding, and supporting ISIS for the last few years, and our confused, wimpy leadership has not called them on it, receiving only the pathetic lifting of the denial of US aircraft use of Incirlik Air Base this past July as a crumb of Turkish thanks for their fecklessness.

After the bombing of the Kolavia Flight from Sharm El-Sheikh killing 224 and the recent attacks in Paris killing at least 130, both crimes attributed to ISIS, the calculation has begun to move away from removing Assad as the primary objective to destroying ISIS. Such an effort would require, of course, increased cooperation between the US, France and Russia in any such effort, leaving the Assad regime intact for now. Erdogan, a committed Islamist, could not stomach that idea, so to throw a monkey wrench into this development, the Turks downed a Russian Su-244 Fighter jet for "violating Turkish airspace," never mind the fact that Greece has constantly complained to an indifferent NATO for years now of blatant violation of its airspace by the Turks.

Obama is too much of a wimp to strategically lead and Putin knows it. The Republicans will jeer anything he does from their peanut gallery as they always do for their own domestic ambitions, and no one outside of the US takes them seriously other than an opportunity for schadenfreude over our political degeneration.

Meanwhile events will go on. Expect the Russians to respond in a calculated and aggressive manner in the next week. Bad situation.
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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby noddy » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:48 am

it was bound to happen, we had a leg either side of the barb wire fence and now we have to choose which side to jump too quickly before we sink into the mud.

turkey does support ISIS, russia does bomb those turks, we do need to be all in against Assad or ISIS, not half half on both.

personally, id like to see turkey out of nato and us full on against ISIS, i doubt it will happen.
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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby YMix » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:48 am

Someone uncovered this little gem:

26 June 2012

[...]

Earlier, Mr Erdogan spoke of Turkey's "rage" at Syria's decision to shoot down the F-4 Phantom last Friday and described Syria as a "clear and present threat".

"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he said.

He said the Turkish jet had been on a training flight, testing Turkey's radars in the eastern Mediterranean.

Mr Erdogan said Turkey was adopting a "common sense" attitude, but that "shouldn't be perceived as a weakness".


Tsk, tsk.
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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby Alexis » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:06 pm

YMix wrote:Tsk, tsk.


Yes. Some more context regarding Turkish respect of international borders

Turkish military sources speaking to Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity said the number of mock dogfights between Turkish and Greek warplanes in 2014 has sharply increased compared to 2013. A report by the Greek Ekathimerini news agency confirmed the Turkish accounts. According to the agency, in just the first month of 2014, Turkish jets violated Greek airspace 1,017 times. That is twice the total number of violations in the first six months of 2013.


Fortunately, the Greek government is incomparably more responsible than the Turkish one.

We have collision between egos there, and it does not bode good. Russia has announced today it will deploy a S-400 air defense system (the best they have) in Lattakia (Syria). Range against aircraft: 250 to 400 km depending on version.

If I was a Turkish fighter pilot, I would make sure to stay far of the Syrian border. I wouldn't put it past the Russians to down a pair of F-16s even if they don't cross the border, provided they are close enough for a doubt to remain.
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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby YMix » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:10 pm

At least seven people reportedly have died, 10 injured after an apparent airstrike, reportedly by Russian jets, targeted an aid convoy in northwestern Syrian town of Azaz near a border crossing with Turkey on Wednesday.

Footage filmed at a crossing on the Syrian side of the border with Turkey's southern province of Kilis showed trucks burning. The head of the rebel-run border crossing in the same area said separately that air strikes hit a garage for commercial trailers, killing seven truck drivers.

Anadolu news agency reported that 20 trucks were targeted, which were carrying cement and iron brought from Turkey in a regular procedure.

Speaking to Daily Sabah, Serkan Nergis from the Humanitarian Relief Foundation (IHH) said that the targeted area is located some 5 kilometers southwest of the Öncüpınar Border Crossing.

Nergis said that IHH has a civil defense unit in Azaz and they helped locals to extinguish the trucks. Trucks were probably carrying aid supplies or commercial materials, Nergis added.

"Our teams helped to extinguish the fire... The trucks do not belong to us and there is no information on who bombed them," Mustafa Özbek, an Istanbul-based official from the IHH, told Reuters.

The aid worker who filmed the aftermath initially said it appeared aid trucks had been targeted.
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YOYO

Postby Alexis » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:28 am

YOYO...


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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby Typhoon » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:36 am

All the world's a stage.
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"It's not that funny, Turkey"

Postby Alexis » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:29 am

A little Polandball about the dead Russian pilot (*)

Turkey : "Actually, I am wear stupid Russian pilot's cap right now. Haha"

USA : "It's not that funny, Turkey"




(*) Too large, I prefer not to paste the image
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Re: "It's not that funny, Turkey"

Postby Typhoon » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:35 am

Alexis wrote:A little Polandball about the dead Russian pilot (*)

Turkey : "Actually, I am wear stupid Russian pilot's cap right now. Haha"

USA : "It's not that funny, Turkey"




(*) Too large, I prefer not to paste the image


Very good.
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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby YMix » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:01 pm

A Russian warplane recently entered Israeli-controlled airspace from Syria, Israeli Defense Minister Rhubarb Yaalon told local media. The brief intrusion was resolved quietly, with Yaalon noting “we must not automatically react and shoot them down when an error occurs." "There was a slight intrusion a mile (1.6 kilometers) deep by a Russian plane from Syria into our airspace, but it was immediately resolved and the Russian plane returned towards Syria," Yaalon told Army Radio. "It was apparently an error by the pilot who was flying near the Golan," he said without elaborating when the incident had occurred.
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Re: Shoot it out, babe... Turkey downs a Russian aircraft

Postby YMix » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:30 am

Mountain Ambush
Renowned American Military Expert Explains How Turkey Ambushed Russia's Su-24

[...]

Here’s the very interesting thing. This border-violating incursion was on the first run to the target at around 10:15. On the second run to the target the Russian planes were clearly further to the south. This is according to the plots and maps released in the Russian briefing, which are very, very detailed with exact time marks every minute. The seventeen-second crossing of the border alleged by the Turks happened at about 10:15, but the Turks waited. They didn’t come in and attack the airplane that had crossed the border at that point. They simply sat and waited until the plane flew a long re-attack pattern and came back on a second run seven or eight minutes later, and that’s when they attacked and shot him down.

Between the fuel-guzzling low altitude of the holding pattern of the F-16s, which miraculously coincided with the flight times of the Russian airplanes, and the fact that they didn’t even chase the airplane immediately upon its alleged border incursion, all that smells very much like a pretty pre-planned operation. The Turks allowed the Russian plane to hit a target and make a long seven or eight minute re-attack pass and then came in from their hidden low altitude position. They came up a little higher to gain a good firing altitude, came whistling south, hit the Su-24, dove under the radar coverage at the same time that they entered Syrian airspace and headed north out of radar coverage to head back to Diyarbakir.

[...]
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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