Israel

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monster_gardener
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Re: Israel Thread

Post by monster_gardener »

AzariLoveIran wrote:.


:lol:


“Sweden, previously a calm country where there was no anti-Semitic problem just a few years ago, is a center of anti-Semitism,”

.

Asked about new cross-European trends of modern anti-Semitism, Kantor said that research, which he initiated by Tel Aviv University’s watchdog on European anti-Semitism, shows numerous Iranian-funded NGO’s are “behind the publication and encouragement of anti-Semitism.”

.

Where is HAL9000 :D

These evil Iranians driving our beloved Rhubarb out of Sweden :lol:

Come on,

Europe is vehemently anti Jew .. this issue not dealt with after the war, just swept under carpet

Évian Conference reflect the true sentiment still fully in tact

Rhubarb, behave, without Iranians, you probably would be now Mohamedaner :lol:


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Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.

Was following Malmo more in the past. Not so much recently..........

AIUI Malmo for sometime has had a problem with an un-assimilated Muslim immigrant community IIRC largely refugees on welfare and ethnic tensions between the Muslim community and the native Infidels were on the rise. IIRC I remember more Pakistanis and Palestinian than Iranians but would need research..........
Europe is vehemently anti Jew .. this issue not dealt with after the war, just swept under carpet
There is a lot of antisemitism still in Europe....and AIUI the rising tide of Muslim immigration mostly adds to it.........

But to be fair the Swedes did take in the Danish Jews and were strong and brave enough to keep the Nazi Germans out..........

Évian Conference reflect the true sentiment still fully in tact
The Angel ;) of the Conference was Rafael ;) Trujillo of the Dominican Republic......... Rafael did not get a Righteous Among the Nations tree in Israel but thanks to his protegee Joaquín Balaguer, the Dominican Republic, still has tree....................
The only country willing to accept a large number of Jews was the Dominican Republic, which offered to accept up to 100,000 refugees on generous terms.[7] In 1940 an agreement was signed and Rafael Trujillo donated 26,000 acres (110 km2) of his properties for settlements. The first settlers arrived in May 1940: only about 800 settlers came to Sosúa; most later moved on to the United States.[7
Rhubarb, behave,
We all need to behave............ Rhubarb, Rustam, Joe..........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
AzariLoveIran

Re: Israel Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.


NYT - Asked if it was possible to stop a determined Iran from becoming a nuclear power, Eitan replied: “No. In the end they’ll get their bomb. The way to fight it is by changing the regime there. This is where we have really failed. We should encourage the opposition groups who turn to us over and over to ask for our help, and instead, we send them away empty-handed.”


.

After speaking with many senior Israeli leaders and chiefs of the military and the intelligence, I have come to believe that Israel will indeed strike Iran in 2012. Perhaps in the small and ever-diminishing window that is left, the United States will choose to intervene after all, but here, from the Israeli perspective, there is not much hope for that. Instead there is that peculiar Israeli mixture of fear — rooted in the sense that Israel is dependent on the tacit support of other nations to survive — and tenacity, the fierce conviction, right or wrong, that only the Israelis can ultimately defend themselves.

.

Hmmmm


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AzariLoveIran

Rape-By-Deception

Post by AzariLoveIran »

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Typhoon
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Re: Rape-By-Deception

Post by Typhoon »

So why is this not in the Israel thread?
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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YMix
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Re: Israel Thread

Post by YMix »

Done.

:D
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
AzariLoveIran

Re: Rape-By-Deception

Post by AzariLoveIran »

Typhoon wrote:.

So why is this not in the Israel thread ?

.

colonel

issue of rape is now becoming more and more pervert

I posted this as a new thread to start a debate about RAPE

you mean we have to debate phenomena of RAPE in Israel thread ?

this article in JP, a good sample of how pervert this debate about rape is becoming

soon, we will be defending in court she arguing he said he loves me but he does not, he raped me

One should look into merit and spirit of a post to decide where it belongs

Rape is serious issue .. and .. does not belong in Israel thread

and

CS

be assured

I think long before starting a new thread


.
AzariLoveIran

Re: Israel Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.

‘ Hold me back ’

.

Indian Punchline


Persian guile drives Israel crazy

I am not surprised that Hebrew indeed has a popular expression, ‘Hold me back’. It’s a convenient thing to say in a street fight when you tell the bystanders to hold you back so that you don’t hit the big chap in front of you who towers over you and can make pulp out of you if he chooses to.

Israel is a grandmaster in using this expression with perfect timing. Timing is important, because you know if it is articulated even a clutch of minutes too late, you are left with no option but to hit the big guy, which of course would have disastrous consequences. And, alternatively, if you don’t hit, you get badly exposed as the little guy who keeps pretending he is what he isn’t in actual prowess.

Predictably, Israel is once again reviving the ‘threat’ that it is about to attack Iran. Al Jazeera has a useful piece by the well-known American Jewish commentator M J Rosenberg giving the chronicle of such Israeli threats in current history. Of course, none of those threats in the recent years was carried out. Reason? It’s rather simple: Israeli military and security establishment is inhabited by cooly rational human beings who would know their country’s real military strengths and weaknesses and won’t allow themselves easily to get carried away by insane politicians.

So, why does Israel make a living out of making such hollow verbal threats? Actually, the threats aren’t that hollow, either. They have a greater logic and they serve a purpose. Israel is conveying a message to the political class in Washington : ‘Do something more on the Iran front’. In the present case, too, the timing is important. Nothing horrifies Israel more than the prospect of the negotiations resuming on the Iran nuclear issue. Israel is terrified of the spectre of the ‘5+1′ negotiations gaining traction. Derailing the diplomatic / political track is, in essence, the constant Israeli objective. Israel knows that the logical next steps of the diplomatic track would sooner rather than later bring the Iranian and American diplomats face to face.

So, Israel is resuming the plea, ‘Hold me back’. Read the hilarious AP dispatch conveying the desperate mood in Israel. The israeli war cry is already beginning to resonate in Washington. The folks on The Hill, who receive generous funding from the Israeli Lobby, are scurrying around seeking more action on Iran. Another set of US sanctions against Iran seems to be in the works.

The US administration has a problem on its hands. It also needs to pay heed to the warning by the influential Fox News that Iran could prove to be the ‘wild card’ in the 2012 presidential election. President Barack Obama knows this is going to be a tight race — unless Newt Gingrich manages to secure the Republican ticket and makes a fool of himself in the campaign in comparison with whom the incumbent president looks an infinitely better proposition.

The challenge facing Obama is to ride out the wave of the Israel-driven war hysteria and finesse it so as to garner political mileage out of it in the campaign, but without really having to go to a war with Iran (for which, Obama knows better than anyone else on the planet that America lacks the capacity or motivation). Ideally, Obama’s cause would have been well served if he had the option to go for a limited military strike against Iran — like Bill Clinton did by firing the odd cruise missiles at Kandahar from a safe distance — but it is a non-option today unless there is absolute, fool-proof, one hundred percent, verifiable guarantee that Tehran won’t retaliate, which of course is lacking.
Fortunately, Obama has a seasoned politician in defence secretary Leon Panetta. So, Panetta has taken over. He quickly revises his earlier opinion and now says Iran would have the capacity to make a bomb within an year if it indeed decides to have one and if that happens, and if the US intelligence gets evidence of Iran having a nuclear programme, then, he wouldn’t rule out exercising any option to prevent Iran on its track. Fair enough. It is a conjecture that doesn’t have to unduly upset Tehran. At the same time, he has not contradicted the Israelis although he may have poured a bit of water on their hysteria over Iran.

Meanwhile, Pentagon has dispatched more warships to the Persian Gulf. The great danger in this ongoing charade is that at some point without any of these able protagonists quite intending it, a spark may appear that may well escalate into an apocalyptic conflagration in no time.
The Israeli fear of having to live on a lonely planet isn’t without basis, though, given Iran’s savviness on the diplomatic front. Iran has complete mastery of the art of diplomacy and trusts its skills to serve the country’s core interests as far as possible. The post-2003 Iraqi saga is a brilliant example.
Unsurprisingly, Iran has already begun making good political capital out of the current visit by the IAEA inspectors to Tehran. The IAEA team includes two carefully hand-picked weapons inspectors who probably set out from Vienna with the brief to somehow put Tehran on the mat. But Iranian hosts are now pleading with them to extend their 3-day visit beyond January 30 so that they can visit even more nuclear installations and talk to the Iranian scientists and satisfy themselves there is no bomb-making programme.

.

Israel has not the "strategic dept" to be able to attack Iran

Iran knows this

Iran's fight not with Israel, nor with Arabs .. they no match to Iran

Iran facing West


.
AzariLoveIran

Re: Israel Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.

In an unexpectedly low-key visit, US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Martin Dempsey has explicitly warned Israel's leadership that the US won't defend Israel if it unilaterally strikes Iran.

.

WASHINGTON - Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) General Martin Dempsey told Israeli leaders on January 20 that the United States would not participate in a war against Iran begun by Israel without prior agreement from Washington, . .

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta had given a clear hint in an interview on "Face the Nation" on January 8 that the Obama administration would not help defend Israel in a war against Iran that Israel had initiated.

Asked how the United States would react if Israel were to launch a unilateral attack on Iran, Panetta first emphasized the need for a coordinated policy toward Iran with Israel. But when host Bob Schieffer repeated the question, Panetta said, "If the Israelis made that decision, we would have to be prepared to protect our forces in that situation. And that's what we'd be concerned about."

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Rhubarb , you on your own

and

why not go ahead and attack Iran ?

If Israel attacks Iran, Middle Eastern, central Asian, Caucasus and beyond map will change .. new borders .. New Middle East beginning shaping

"Democratic Federation of Persian Nations" , here we come

.
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Typhoon
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Re: Israel Thread

Post by Typhoon »

AzariLoveIran wrote: . . .

"Democratic Federation of Persian Nations" , here we come
This presumes democracy in Persia.

Rather than dreaming of a Great Persiastan Bananastan [a good indicator of a failed state re SU, Serbia, etc.], Pomegranates should start by implementing democracy and a civil society in what is Persia today first.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
AzariLoveIran

Re: Israel Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

Typhoon wrote:
AzariLoveIran wrote: . . .

"Democratic Federation of Persian Nations" , here we come
This presumes democracy in Persia.

Rather than dreaming of a Great Persiastan Bananastan [a good indicator of a failed state re SU, Serbia, etc.], Pomegranates should start by implementing democracy and a civil society in what is Persia today first.

.

Colonel, you blended by FOX news rubbish

Iran is already a democracy, not your sort of democracy (a sham) but real democracy

Civil Society ?

come on Colonel , come on

you have not slightest clue what civil society is , not an iota clue

you really think a civil society could do what you did in WW II or Germans did or Hiroshima or Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan or Algeria or Indonesia or South America

Better call it "animal Kingdom"

You want democracy and civil society ?

I R A N

water flowing uphill on your land Colonel, uphill

Shieeeet


.
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Typhoon
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Re: Israel Thread

Post by Typhoon »

AzariLoveIran wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
AzariLoveIran wrote: . . .

"Democratic Federation of Persian Nations" , here we come
This presumes democracy in Persia.

Rather than dreaming of a Great Persiastan Bananastan [a good indicator of a failed state re SU, Serbia, etc.], Pomegranates should start by implementing democracy and a civil society in what is Persia today first.

.

Colonel, you blended by FOX news rubbish

Iran is already a democracy, not your sort of democracy (a sham) but real democracy

Civil Society ?

come on Colonel , come on

you have not slightest clue what civil society is , not an iota clue

you really think a civil society could do what you did in WW II or Germans did or Hiroshima or Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan or Algeria or Indonesia or South America

Better call it "animal Kingdom"

You want democracy and civil society ?

I R A N

water flowing uphill on your land Colonel, uphill

Shieeeet


.
WP | List of freedom indices

Freedom House | Freedom in the World 2011 | Iran: not free

Heritage Foundation | Index of Economic Freedom 2012 | Iran: repressed

Reporters Without Borders | Press Freedom Index 2010| Iran: very serious situation

The Economist Intelligence Unit | Democracy Index 2010 | Iran: authoritarian

You can look up Japan and Canada [from where, unlike Iran, you can make such posts with fear of repercussions] as a homework exercise.

A typical response to maintain cognitive dissonance between reality and fantasy is to blame conspiracy and external forces.

In this case Rhubarb.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
AzariLoveIran

Re: Israel Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

Typhoon wrote:
AzariLoveIran wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
AzariLoveIran wrote: . . .

"Democratic Federation of Persian Nations" , here we come
This presumes democracy in Persia.

Rather than dreaming of a Great Persiastan Bananastan [a good indicator of a failed state re SU, Serbia, etc.], Pomegranates should start by implementing democracy and a civil society in what is Persia today first.

.

Colonel, you blended by FOX news rubbish

Iran is already a democracy, not your sort of democracy (a sham) but real democracy

Civil Society ?

come on Colonel , come on

you have not slightest clue what civil society is , not an iota clue

you really think a civil society could do what you did in WW II or Germans did or Hiroshima or Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan or Algeria or Indonesia or South America

Better call it "animal Kingdom"

You want democracy and civil society ?

I R A N

water flowing uphill on your land Colonel, uphill

Shieeeet


.
WP | List of freedom indices

Freedom House | Freedom in the World 2011 | Iran: not free

Heritage Foundation | Index of Economic Freedom 2012 | Iran: repressed

Reporters Without Borders | Press Freedom Index 2010| Iran: very serious situation

The Economist Intelligence Unit | Democracy Index 2010 | Iran: authoritarian

You can look up Japan and Canada [from where, unlike Iran, you can make such posts with fear of repercussions] as a homework exercise.

A typical response to maintain cognitive dissonance between reality and fantasy is to blame conspiracy and external forces.

In this case Rhubarb.

.

foolin Joe

they consider not having yearly "gay pride parade" as not being free

all those above are western fronts

worth zero

if not so, they would comments on conditions at their own home

meaning instruments & tools of western policy

.
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Typhoon
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Re: Israel Thread

Post by Typhoon »

Rhubarb is everywhere Azari and he's pulling all of Iran's strings.

Resistance is futile.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
AzariLoveIran

Re: Israel Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

Typhoon wrote:.

Rhubarb is everywhere Azari and he's pulling all of Iran's strings.

.

NcXhKoHJ9MM


.
AzariLoveIran

Re: Israel Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.

Interesting debate


9GHPj8TaBAM



.
AzariLoveIran

Re: Israel Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.

Greek say Germans this, Endo says Germans that .. and now this


Even worse, nearly 60 percent believe that Israel is waging a war of extinction against the Palestinians, while over 40 percent say that "what Israel is doing to the Palestinians is in principle no different from what Nazis did to the Jews in the Third Reich."


Poor Angela , poo Angela

.
Shocking? Yes, but none of this is completely new. Some of these figures were even higher in 2004, when more than half of Germans agreed that Israel is to the Palestinians what the Nazis were to the Jews.

That outburst of "secondary anti-Semitism" (Holocaust denial or relativization ) appeared during the second intifada, during which German media coverage consistently depicted Israel as an aggressor and the Palestinians as victims, with little coverage devoted to Palestinian terror and its victims.

The moral of the story is that the time has come for a paradigm shift in Germany - concerning the perception and recognition of, and fight against anti-Semitism. Such shifts don't come easily. They are triggered by an accumulation of developments, which in this case have climaxed with the tangible face of anti-Semitism in Germany as unmasked by the committee.

Among those developments was the exposure last November of the so-called Zwickau neo-Nazi terror cell, which killed nine immigrants and a German policewoman over the past decade. No less disturbing is the rising suspicion that government agencies in the states where it operated were involved in covering it up.

There is also the demographic-generational change Germany is undergoing which, together with apparently severe flaws in the education system, explains another indigestible statistical ingredient in the poisonous pool, revealed in a survey by Stern magazine last month: Every fifth German under 30 has never heard of Auschwitz.

Last but not least is the increasing threat of radical Islam in Germany, which besides inspiring acute fears of terror attacks, inculcates anti-Semitism among a growing group of Muslim youth, who are exposed to bluntly anti-Semitic stereotypes via Turkish, Arab and Iranian media. Together with the German media's often one-sided coverage of the Middle East conflict - a phenomenon so dangerously linked to the rise of anti-Semitism in Germany that a chapter was devoted to it in the committee's report - this results in a dangerous cocktail.

Focusing on anti-Semitism in classrooms solely in the historical context is not sufficient. This is one of the report's concluding criticisms, along with this worrying one: "Germany lacks a comprehensive strategy to fight anti-Semitism." The strategic insufficiencies include the way that German Jewry responds to the threat. Apart from several private initiatives, there is no coordinated action, no central bureau and no training for young German Jews to fight anti-Semitism. The reflexive complaints simply are not enough.

The good news is that this can be changed. In Angela Merkel and her government, German Jewry has an authentic partner. When the chancellor says she will not tolerate anti-Semitism, she means it. And behind her, a critical mass of citizens echoes this stance.

Statistics remain abstract digits only if political, social and religious leaders do not recognize them as alarm bells, and in turn transform them into triggers for a change: Toward a proactive, comprehensive strategy against anti-Semitism.

The complex context within which German youth learn about the Holocaust, relate to their fellow Jewish citizens or form an opinion about Israel, requires more creativity, more coordination, more long-term budgets, more interdisciplinary synergy.

One hopeful though far from sufficient signal is that, following the disturbing killer cell revelations, German Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich established a "joint defense center" against neo-Nazi terror - a bureaucratic revolution by German standards.

But as with counter-terrorism programs targeting Islamists, this is the tip of the preventive iceberg. It is the youths' socialization, during which value and belief systems are formed, and religious, ideological and political identities planted, that is crucial. It is here where schools, parents, state and NGO programs, as well as the media, should internalize a new paradigm to provide target group-specific incentives for a future in which the above figures will be merely bad science fiction.

There are no doubts about the political and social will in Germany to overcome this indigestible reality. But will and outrage are not enough. Monsters have to be fought.
.

And ahmadinejat is Hitler :lol:


.
AzariLoveIran

Re: Israel Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

AzariLoveIran

Re: Israel Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.

Iran : Our satellite photographed Israel's Dimona reactor, IDF bases


Rhubarb, next time, please smile when that thing passes over :D

Satellite pictures over Israel are classified .. until now .. (soon you might buy them as postcards)

Ahmadinejat laughing :lol:

.
Iran and the West are now competing over who is getting more stressed - Europe over the possible disruption of oil flow, or Tehran, which has been busy uncovering new technologies.
.
.
According to the poll, most of the Americans (62 percent) who support military action against Iran are Republicans, while a third who oppose such action are Democrats and Independents.
.

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Endovelico
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Re: Israel Thread

Post by Endovelico »

Israel's risky option on Iran - Worse than a nuclear-armed Iran would be a nuclear-armed Iran that has been attacked by Israel
By Dalia Dassa Kaye - February 21, 2012

Talk of a military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities is not subsiding. If diplomacy can't head off Iran'snuclear ambitions, advocates for a military strike in Israel and the United States will only gain strength. While proponents may believe that Israel can endure the short-term military and diplomatic fallout of such action, the long-term consequences are likely to be disastrous for Israel's security.

Those believed to favor a military option, such as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak, argue that the Middle East with a nuclear-armed Iran would be far more dangerous than a military attack to prevent it. But their position rests on a faulty assumption that a future, post-attack Middle East would indeed be free of a nuclear-armed Iran. In fact, it may result in the worst of both worlds: a future nuclear-armed Iran more determined than ever to challenge the Jewish state, and with far fewer regional and international impediments to do so.

Let's consider a post-attack Middle East. The risk factors are well known: potential Iranian retaliation in the Levant, the Persian Gulf and perhaps against Israeli and American interests abroad, as well as destabilizing consequences for global oil markets. Those Israelis who favor a strike believe that such retaliation would be limited and in any case less harmful than facing a nuclear-armed Iran.

Those opposed to an attack, such as former Israeli Mossad head Meir Dagan, believe the risks are too uncertain and potentially too costly to justify a strike; in their view, covert actions will be more effective in slowing Iran's program, with fewer repercussions.

The consensus among Western analysts is that a military attack against Iran would at best delay Iran's nuclear development, not stop it. This is because Iran's nuclear facilities are believed to be widely dispersed and deeply buried, and because the nuclear expertise that Iran has developed so far cannot be eradicated through military strikes. On top of that, military attacks could push Iran to weaponize its program.

Thus, what the region's future may hold is not an Iran that has or hasn't acquired nuclear weapons, but rather a nuclear-armed Iran that has or hasn't been attacked by Israel.

Why should Israelis be worried about these alternatives? Because while a nuclear-armed Iran that hasn't been attacked is dangerous, one that has been attacked may be much more likely to brandish its capabilities, to make sure it does not face an attack again. That could lead to escalation between two nuclear adversaries that have no direct lines of communication. Cold War-style deterrence is not likely to work well under such circumstances.

Absent an attack, there is at least the possibility Iran may seek only a "virtual" capability — reaping the benefits of deterrence by possessing the technology necessary to build a weapon but not actually doing so. Such a posture would still be worrisome and would require intrusive inspections to maintain, but it would be far less destabilizing than an openly nuclear-armed Iran. It would also decrease the incentives for neighboring countries to consider a nuclear option.

A unilateral attack by Israel would also diminish the determination of the international community to challenge Iranian transgressions of its Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty commitments, or to continue to support Israel. The Obama administration has left "all options on the table," but it clearly does not want a military strike.

Key players in Europe, not to mention smaller powers in Asia, would view military action as undermining diplomatic and economic options to solve the problem. Russia andChina'sresponse would be more hostile, jeopardizing Israel's growing political and economic relations with both countries.

Regional reactions would also be negative, further inflaming anti-Israel sentiment in Arab nations. Iran has been losing ground with Arab populations disillusioned with its repression at home and its support for President Bashar Assad's brutal repression in Syria, but an Israeli strike could allow Iran to bounce back as it plays the victim and fuels popular hatred toward Israel.

Likewise, Israel's relationship with key neighbors Egypt and Jordan, more beholden to popular sentiment in the aftermath of the Arab uprisings, could be severely strained, putting at risk vital peace treaties. Any prospect of shared anti-Iranian sentiment forging quiet common cause between Israel and Arab Persian Gulf states or Israel and Turkey would dissipate.

Israel has never been integrated into the Mideast. But Israel has rarely faced total isolation. When Israel has confronted Arab nationalist adversaries in the past (Egypt and Iraq), it had the non-Arab "periphery" to turn to (Iran and Turkey). When Israel perceived a rising threat from Iran, it turned to peacemaking with its Arab neighbors. Israel has not faced a strategic situation in which it is isolated from Arabs and non-Arabs alike, while at the same time facing growing international isolation.

To many in Israel, nothing could be worse than a future with a nuclear-armed Iran. But a future with a nuclear-armed Iran that has been attacked by Israel could actually be a lot worse.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 6367.story
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monster_gardener
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Germans as self excusing dolts. Jews should leave NOW!

Post by monster_gardener »

AzariLoveIran wrote:.

Greek say Germans this, Endo says Germans that .. and now this


Even worse, nearly 60 percent believe that Israel is waging a war of extinction against the Palestinians, while over 40 percent say that "what Israel is doing to the Palestinians is in principle no different from what Nazis did to the Jews in the Third Reich."


Poor Angela , poo Angela

.
Shocking? Yes, but none of this is completely new. Some of these figures were even higher in 2004, when more than half of Germans agreed that Israel is to the Palestinians what the Nazis were to the Jews.

That outburst of "secondary anti-Semitism" (Holocaust denial or relativization ) appeared during the second intifada, during which German media coverage consistently depicted Israel as an aggressor and the Palestinians as victims, with little coverage devoted to Palestinian terror and its victims.

The moral of the story is that the time has come for a paradigm shift in Germany - concerning the perception and recognition of, and fight against anti-Semitism. Such shifts don't come easily. They are triggered by an accumulation of developments, which in this case have climaxed with the tangible face of anti-Semitism in Germany as unmasked by the committee.

Among those developments was the exposure last November of the so-called Zwickau neo-Nazi terror cell, which killed nine immigrants and a German policewoman over the past decade. No less disturbing is the rising suspicion that government agencies in the states where it operated were involved in covering it up.

There is also the demographic-generational change Germany is undergoing which, together with apparently severe flaws in the education system, explains another indigestible statistical ingredient in the poisonous pool, revealed in a survey by Stern magazine last month: Every fifth German under 30 has never heard of Auschwitz.

Last but not least is the increasing threat of radical Islam in Germany, which besides inspiring acute fears of terror attacks, inculcates anti-Semitism among a growing group of Muslim youth, who are exposed to bluntly anti-Semitic stereotypes via Turkish, Arab and Iranian media. Together with the German media's often one-sided coverage of the Middle East conflict - a phenomenon so dangerously linked to the rise of anti-Semitism in Germany that a chapter was devoted to it in the committee's report - this results in a dangerous cocktail.

Focusing on anti-Semitism in classrooms solely in the historical context is not sufficient. This is one of the report's concluding criticisms, along with this worrying one: "Germany lacks a comprehensive strategy to fight anti-Semitism." The strategic insufficiencies include the way that German Jewry responds to the threat. Apart from several private initiatives, there is no coordinated action, no central bureau and no training for young German Jews to fight anti-Semitism. The reflexive complaints simply are not enough.

The good news is that this can be changed. In Angela Merkel and her government, German Jewry has an authentic partner. When the chancellor says she will not tolerate anti-Semitism, she means it. And behind her, a critical mass of citizens echoes this stance.

Statistics remain abstract digits only if political, social and religious leaders do not recognize them as alarm bells, and in turn transform them into triggers for a change: Toward a proactive, comprehensive strategy against anti-Semitism.

The complex context within which German youth learn about the Holocaust, relate to their fellow Jewish citizens or form an opinion about Israel, requires more creativity, more coordination, more long-term budgets, more interdisciplinary synergy.

One hopeful though far from sufficient signal is that, following the disturbing killer cell revelations, German Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich established a "joint defense center" against neo-Nazi terror - a bureaucratic revolution by German standards.

But as with counter-terrorism programs targeting Islamists, this is the tip of the preventive iceberg. It is the youths' socialization, during which value and belief systems are formed, and religious, ideological and political identities planted, that is crucial. It is here where schools, parents, state and NGO programs, as well as the media, should internalize a new paradigm to provide target group-specific incentives for a future in which the above figures will be merely bad science fiction.

There are no doubts about the political and social will in Germany to overcome this indigestible reality. But will and outrage are not enough. Monsters have to be fought.
.

And ahmadinejat is Hitler :lol:


.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.
Some of these figures were even higher in 2004, when more than half of Germans agreed that Israel is to the Palestinians what the Nazis were to the Jews.

That outburst of "secondary anti-Semitism" (Holocaust denial or relativization ) appeared during the second intifada, during which German media coverage consistently depicted Israel as an aggressor and the Palestinians as victims, with little coverage devoted to Palestinian terror and its victims.
These Germans IMVHO are self excusing dolts......... The Jews of the Holocaust would have thanked G_D if their situation had transformed into what the Palestinians have......

Apart from several private initiatives, there is no coordinated action, no central bureau and no training for young German Jews to fight anti-Semitism.
My suggestion would be to "flight" German antisemitism......

Some place where people aren't into this stupid meme game: China may be........

Tasmania might be good if the balloon goes up in Iran or Israel ....... The Devil :wink: in Tasmania is funnier than the ones in Germany..........
Last edited by monster_gardener on Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Israel Thread

Post by monster_gardener »

Endovelico wrote:
Israel's risky option on Iran - Worse than a nuclear-armed Iran would be a nuclear-armed Iran that has been attacked by Israel
By Dalia Dassa Kaye - February 21, 2012

Talk of a military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities is not subsiding. If diplomacy can't head off Iran'snuclear ambitions, advocates for a military strike in Israel and the United States will only gain strength. While proponents may believe that Israel can endure the short-term military and diplomatic fallout of such action, the long-term consequences are likely to be disastrous for Israel's security.

Those believed to favor a military option, such as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak, argue that the Middle East with a nuclear-armed Iran would be far more dangerous than a military attack to prevent it. But their position rests on a faulty assumption that a future, post-attack Middle East would indeed be free of a nuclear-armed Iran. In fact, it may result in the worst of both worlds: a future nuclear-armed Iran more determined than ever to challenge the Jewish state, and with far fewer regional and international impediments to do so.

Let's consider a post-attack Middle East. The risk factors are well known: potential Iranian retaliation in the Levant, the Persian Gulf and perhaps against Israeli and American interests abroad, as well as destabilizing consequences for global oil markets. Those Israelis who favor a strike believe that such retaliation would be limited and in any case less harmful than facing a nuclear-armed Iran.

Those opposed to an attack, such as former Israeli Mossad head Meir Dagan, believe the risks are too uncertain and potentially too costly to justify a strike; in their view, covert actions will be more effective in slowing Iran's program, with fewer repercussions.

The consensus among Western analysts is that a military attack against Iran would at best delay Iran's nuclear development, not stop it. This is because Iran's nuclear facilities are believed to be widely dispersed and deeply buried, and because the nuclear expertise that Iran has developed so far cannot be eradicated through military strikes. On top of that, military attacks could push Iran to weaponize its program.

Thus, what the region's future may hold is not an Iran that has or hasn't acquired nuclear weapons, but rather a nuclear-armed Iran that has or hasn't been attacked by Israel.

Why should Israelis be worried about these alternatives? Because while a nuclear-armed Iran that hasn't been attacked is dangerous, one that has been attacked may be much more likely to brandish its capabilities, to make sure it does not face an attack again. That could lead to escalation between two nuclear adversaries that have no direct lines of communication. Cold War-style deterrence is not likely to work well under such circumstances.

Absent an attack, there is at least the possibility Iran may seek only a "virtual" capability — reaping the benefits of deterrence by possessing the technology necessary to build a weapon but not actually doing so. Such a posture would still be worrisome and would require intrusive inspections to maintain, but it would be far less destabilizing than an openly nuclear-armed Iran. It would also decrease the incentives for neighboring countries to consider a nuclear option.

A unilateral attack by Israel would also diminish the determination of the international community to challenge Iranian transgressions of its Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty commitments, or to continue to support Israel. The Obama administration has left "all options on the table," but it clearly does not want a military strike.

Key players in Europe, not to mention smaller powers in Asia, would view military action as undermining diplomatic and economic options to solve the problem. Russia andChina'sresponse would be more hostile, jeopardizing Israel's growing political and economic relations with both countries.

Regional reactions would also be negative, further inflaming anti-Israel sentiment in Arab nations. Iran has been losing ground with Arab populations disillusioned with its repression at home and its support for President Bashar Assad's brutal repression in Syria, but an Israeli strike could allow Iran to bounce back as it plays the victim and fuels popular hatred toward Israel.

Likewise, Israel's relationship with key neighbors Egypt and Jordan, more beholden to popular sentiment in the aftermath of the Arab uprisings, could be severely strained, putting at risk vital peace treaties. Any prospect of shared anti-Iranian sentiment forging quiet common cause between Israel and Arab Persian Gulf states or Israel and Turkey would dissipate.

Israel has never been integrated into the Mideast. But Israel has rarely faced total isolation. When Israel has confronted Arab nationalist adversaries in the past (Egypt and Iraq), it had the non-Arab "periphery" to turn to (Iran and Turkey). When Israel perceived a rising threat from Iran, it turned to peacemaking with its Arab neighbors. Israel has not faced a strategic situation in which it is isolated from Arabs and non-Arabs alike, while at the same time facing growing international isolation.

To many in Israel, nothing could be worse than a future with a nuclear-armed Iran. But a future with a nuclear-armed Iran that has been attacked by Israel could actually be a lot worse.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 6367.story
Thank you Very Much for your post, Endo.

Article has a lot of truth.... but doesn't think far enough.........

One should not strike the King except to slay him............

Unless you are damned sure that you can safely overpower him.......

Israel isn't that strong......... Can kill but not conquer.......

Would not doubt much that the Israeli war college has a plan that involves totally degrading Iran's industrial capacity for anything for the next century......

May even have plans to distribute iodide tablets in India...........

There's a big risk no matter what Israel does............

Do nothing: Iran gets the bomb......... Probably at best the mad mullahs try to use it as a threat to demoralize Israel........ Get rational Jews to self deport.......... At worst the mad mad mullahs decide to take out the Little Satan with nuclear fire and probably the Great Satan with EMP (or worse) believing that the chaos will force the Madhi out of his well in Qom to lead the Shia to victory........

Surgical strike especially unsuccessful............. As the article outlines.......... Bad..........

Full Scale nuclear attack...........Very Bad... Everyone hates Iz & Uz ... No big deal for Iz ........ Now Azari probably will be right that Zion worse than Dolph in the Megadeath count......... but at least one problem removed........ And others know that if they attack...... there is more of that but with cobalt salt on it........... Jews may not be the nice little victims like they largely were in World War 2 whether the Euros and US/uz like it or not..........

Also possible that Iran already has retaliatory nukes bought from the Russians/Soviet or that queer Pak Kahn guy........ maybe even Kim ILL of the Norks.....
Could cause what trying to prevent............

What needs to happen is for Iran and Israel & US to negotiate something reasonable......... No Iranian nukes, No Israeli attack, No US invasion........ even if Iran invades Afghanistan :lol: :lol: :lol:

Unfortunately Not likely to happen........

Per the news on the radio, latest Iranian position involves Israel as a Little Satan cancer that must be cut out of the world........
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Re: Israel Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.

:lol:

well, MG

have you ever thought why Brits and Zionist and Wahhabi (Saudi) so afraid of Iran having nuclear bomb and not afraid of Pakistan having 100+ Nuclear bomb and F-16 able to deliver and and and ? ?

Ever thought about this ? ?

Are Iranians more crazy or Paki ? ?

Apparently Paki good boys, Israel even supply them with military refueling trucks for the F-16

Guilty conscious, MG, guilty conscious ? ?

Iranians neither forgotten nor forgiven, yet

MG, time to asked forgivness, and not bombing

Brits (and Americans) have not yet said sorry


:lol:


.
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Explanations.... Apologies..... Forgiveness

Post by monster_gardener »

AzariLoveIran wrote:.

:lol:

well, MG

have you ever thought why Brits and Zionist and Wahhabi (Saudi) so afraid of Iran having nuclear bomb and not afraid of Pakistan having 100+ Nuclear bomb and F-16 able to deliver and and and ? ?

Ever thought about this ? ?

Are Iranians more crazy or Paki ? ?

Apparently Paki good boys, Israel even supply them with military refueling trucks for the F-16

Guilty conscious, MG, guilty conscious ? ?

Iranians neither forgotten nor forgiven, yet

MG, time to asked forgivness, and not bombing

Brits (and Americans) have not yet said sorry


:lol:


.
Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.

AIUI we/US/uz are VERY concerned about the Pak Rats' :wink: nuke collection........ So concerned that the Pakistanis are concerned that We/US/uz have plans to steal or destroy those nukes at first opportunity.......... The Rats ;) are probably right.......


My guess as to why Israel seems more concerned about Iran than Pakistan is that AIUI Pakistan is not yet ruled by mad mullahs proclaiming
that Israel is a Little Satan cancer that needs to be cut out. Pakistan seems a bit more concentrated on doing that to the hated Hindu Indians: remembering that painting of Bhutto watching the nuclear missile take off to destroy New Dehli....... :evil:

For the Saudis/Wahabis, IMHO it's the old Sunni vs. Shia conflict with control of oil fields thrown in. AIUI, the Sunnis have the upper hand in Pakistan..........



As far Forgiveness, I as an American again ask forgiveness of Iran both for deliberate wrongs done by my elected leaders such as the 1953 Kermit Roosevelt CIA coup against Mossadegh done from a misguided fear of Communism and benefiting IMVHO mostly British petroleum companies.......

Iran deserves an official apology. I offer my personal one. If Ron or Rand Paul or Gary Johnson is elected, I hope Iran may get the official one.

Also for IMHO tragic mistakes like the Iranian Air liner that was shot down. Iran was given compensation but was not given the apology it deserved.

FWIW I believe I know a little of how Iran feels......KAL...... Lockerbie........ Eventually I have come to forgive the Russians and Gaddafi Duck/Libya...... I hope that someday Iran will get an official apology but offer my personal one meanwhile..........

I pledge to vote for Ron/Rand Paul to further this............

Getting braver........ I have voted for Rand Paul already...... Plan to do it again.......... Either as senator next cycle or Vice President this time ............. Maybe President the next time.........

Your Friend,
Monster Gardener
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
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AzariLoveIran

Re: Explanations.... Apologies..... Forgiveness

Post by AzariLoveIran »

monster_gardener wrote:.

My guess as to why Israel seems more concerned about Iran than Pakistan is that AIUI Pakistan is not yet ruled by mad mullahs proclaiming that Israel is a Little Satan cancer that needs to be cut out. Pakistan seems a bit more concentrated on doing that to the hated Hindu Indians: remembering that painting of Bhutto watching the nuclear missile take off to destroy New Dehli....... :evil:

For the Saudis/Wahabis, IMHO it's the old Sunni vs. Shia conflict with control of oil fields thrown in. AIUI, the Sunnis have the upper hand in Pakistan..........

.

Neither nor, MG, neither nor

Paki behead American journalist on TV .. and, you guys say, 9/11 was pretty much a Wahhabi Job

How many Americans or Israeli or westerner .. or even any foreigner .. got a bloody nose (let alone behead) since 1979, in Iran

ZERO

Those "mountain climbers" deep in Iranian territory , where are they now ? back home in US

Yes, Iran held CIA operatives cooking another Mossadegh-II from US embassy for some time .. and .. they home now

But

how many

Americans beheaded on plain video by Wahhabi operatives in Iraq and Pakistan ? many

so

still Iran is the dangerous one because Ahmadinejat says Palestinians must have a free referendum ! ! ! otherwise there is no future for Israel ? ? ?

Come on

all this excuse to fool Joe

west is afraid of Iranian potential .. potential like China

Iran is gathering the lost herd

the wolfs (Brits, French, Russian, Ottomans, etc) have chased away the herd .. Iran bringing them back

That is why west is afraid of Iran

otherwise , nuclear bomb dime a dozen

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