War Plan Red

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Torchwood
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War Plan Red

Post by Torchwood »

How the US planned war on the British Empire - in the 20th century!

Just watched a TV programme about this. OK, it was just a contingency plan, but in view of events after 1941 the fact that it was even conceived of seems bizarre. Still there was squabbling over trade and naval forces, over WW1 debt repayments, and Middle America was anti-British in sentiment. The British empire handing over the global leader baton to the US without a war between them was without precedent, but we have A. Hitler to thank for that. Interesting how the US overestimated British strength, not realising that the empire was overstretched and on borrowed time.

The Americans envisaged a WW1 type slog between millions of troops in Canada, but in fact the UK would have had no plans to defend Canada, it was rightly seen as indefensible. They would have fought a naval war to contain and seek to destroy the US Navy (and the Royal Navy was still bigger and more experienced at the time), perhaps taken the Philippines.

The plan was supposed to be secret, but then as now the US government leaked like a sieve and it was well known.
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Typhoon
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Re: War Plan Red

Post by Typhoon »

Torchwood wrote:How the US planned war on the British Empire - in the 20th century!

Just watched a TV programme about this. OK, it was just a contingency plan, but in view of events after 1941 the fact that it was even conceived of seems bizarre. Still there was squabbling over trade and naval forces, over WW1 debt repayments, and Middle America was anti-British in sentiment. The British empire handing over the global leader baton to the US without a war between them was without precedent, but we have A. Hitler to thank for that. Interesting how the US overestimated British strength, not realising that the empire was overstretched and on borrowed time.

The Americans envisaged a WW1 type slog between millions of troops in Canada, but in fact the UK would have had no plans to defend Canada, it was rightly seen as indefensible. They would have fought a naval war to contain and seek to destroy the US Navy (and the Royal Navy was still bigger and more experienced at the time), perhaps taken the Philippines.

The plan was supposed to be secret, but then as now the US government leaked like a sieve and it was well known.
Interesting. One may speculate that if Hitler had been run over and killed while crossing the street in 1920, WWII may have been between the US and the UK.
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Azrael
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Re: War Plan Red

Post by Azrael »

Torchwood wrote:The plan was supposed to be secret, but then as now the US government leaked like a sieve and it was well known.
What do you think causes it to leak like a sieve? A higher percentage of political appointees at the expense of career civil service?
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Torchwood
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Re: War Plan Red

Post by Torchwood »

Azrael wrote:
Torchwood wrote:The plan was supposed to be secret, but then as now the US government leaked like a sieve and it was well known.
What do you think causes it to leak like a sieve? A higher percentage of political appointees at the expense of career civil service?
A cultural bias to openness, which overall is no bad thing. The CIA is in the phone book, for goodness sake: MI5 isn't.
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Azrael
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Re: War Plan Red

Post by Azrael »

Torchwood wrote:
Azrael wrote:
Torchwood wrote:The plan was supposed to be secret, but then as now the US government leaked like a sieve and it was well known.
What do you think causes it to leak like a sieve? A higher percentage of political appointees at the expense of career civil service?
A cultural bias to openness, which overall is no bad thing.
Does a cultural bias to name dropping and bragging contribute, or are they pretty universal qualities?
The CIA is in the phone book, for goodness sake: MI5 isn't.
The British intelligence has had a lot of moles, though, such as the Cambridge Five.

It seems that Russians make good spies.
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Ibrahim
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Re: War Plan Red

Post by Ibrahim »

Typhoon wrote:
Torchwood wrote:How the US planned war on the British Empire - in the 20th century!

Just watched a TV programme about this. OK, it was just a contingency plan, but in view of events after 1941 the fact that it was even conceived of seems bizarre. Still there was squabbling over trade and naval forces, over WW1 debt repayments, and Middle America was anti-British in sentiment. The British empire handing over the global leader baton to the US without a war between them was without precedent, but we have A. Hitler to thank for that. Interesting how the US overestimated British strength, not realising that the empire was overstretched and on borrowed time.

The Americans envisaged a WW1 type slog between millions of troops in Canada, but in fact the UK would have had no plans to defend Canada, it was rightly seen as indefensible. They would have fought a naval war to contain and seek to destroy the US Navy (and the Royal Navy was still bigger and more experienced at the time), perhaps taken the Philippines.

The plan was supposed to be secret, but then as now the US government leaked like a sieve and it was well known.
Interesting. One may speculate that if Hitler had been run over and killed while crossing the street in 1920, WWII may have been between the US and the UK.
I think the Soviets more likely.

Anyway there are always war plans for invading everybody. I'm pretty sure the British had a similar plan. Both the US and the UK have so many failed invasions of one another to draw on as inspiration!
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Azrael
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Re: War Plan Red

Post by Azrael »

I agree, Ibrahim. One reason I agree is that the U.S. and the U.K. invaded Russia in 1919 to fight the reds.
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