How the US planned war on the British Empire - in the 20th century!
Just watched a TV programme about this. OK, it was just a contingency plan, but in view of events after 1941 the fact that it was even conceived of seems bizarre. Still there was squabbling over trade and naval forces, over WW1 debt repayments, and Middle America was anti-British in sentiment. The British empire handing over the global leader baton to the US without a war between them was without precedent, but we have A. Hitler to thank for that. Interesting how the US overestimated British strength, not realising that the empire was overstretched and on borrowed time.
The Americans envisaged a WW1 type slog between millions of troops in Canada, but in fact the UK would have had no plans to defend Canada, it was rightly seen as indefensible. They would have fought a naval war to contain and seek to destroy the US Navy (and the Royal Navy was still bigger and more experienced at the time), perhaps taken the Philippines.
The plan was supposed to be secret, but then as now the US government leaked like a sieve and it was well known.
War Plan Red
Re: War Plan Red
Interesting. One may speculate that if Hitler had been run over and killed while crossing the street in 1920, WWII may have been between the US and the UK.Torchwood wrote:How the US planned war on the British Empire - in the 20th century!
Just watched a TV programme about this. OK, it was just a contingency plan, but in view of events after 1941 the fact that it was even conceived of seems bizarre. Still there was squabbling over trade and naval forces, over WW1 debt repayments, and Middle America was anti-British in sentiment. The British empire handing over the global leader baton to the US without a war between them was without precedent, but we have A. Hitler to thank for that. Interesting how the US overestimated British strength, not realising that the empire was overstretched and on borrowed time.
The Americans envisaged a WW1 type slog between millions of troops in Canada, but in fact the UK would have had no plans to defend Canada, it was rightly seen as indefensible. They would have fought a naval war to contain and seek to destroy the US Navy (and the Royal Navy was still bigger and more experienced at the time), perhaps taken the Philippines.
The plan was supposed to be secret, but then as now the US government leaked like a sieve and it was well known.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Re: War Plan Red
What do you think causes it to leak like a sieve? A higher percentage of political appointees at the expense of career civil service?Torchwood wrote:The plan was supposed to be secret, but then as now the US government leaked like a sieve and it was well known.
cultivate a white rose
Re: War Plan Red
A cultural bias to openness, which overall is no bad thing. The CIA is in the phone book, for goodness sake: MI5 isn't.Azrael wrote:What do you think causes it to leak like a sieve? A higher percentage of political appointees at the expense of career civil service?Torchwood wrote:The plan was supposed to be secret, but then as now the US government leaked like a sieve and it was well known.
Re: War Plan Red
Does a cultural bias to name dropping and bragging contribute, or are they pretty universal qualities?Torchwood wrote:A cultural bias to openness, which overall is no bad thing.Azrael wrote:What do you think causes it to leak like a sieve? A higher percentage of political appointees at the expense of career civil service?Torchwood wrote:The plan was supposed to be secret, but then as now the US government leaked like a sieve and it was well known.
The British intelligence has had a lot of moles, though, such as the Cambridge Five.The CIA is in the phone book, for goodness sake: MI5 isn't.
It seems that Russians make good spies.
cultivate a white rose
Re: War Plan Red
I think the Soviets more likely.Typhoon wrote:Interesting. One may speculate that if Hitler had been run over and killed while crossing the street in 1920, WWII may have been between the US and the UK.Torchwood wrote:How the US planned war on the British Empire - in the 20th century!
Just watched a TV programme about this. OK, it was just a contingency plan, but in view of events after 1941 the fact that it was even conceived of seems bizarre. Still there was squabbling over trade and naval forces, over WW1 debt repayments, and Middle America was anti-British in sentiment. The British empire handing over the global leader baton to the US without a war between them was without precedent, but we have A. Hitler to thank for that. Interesting how the US overestimated British strength, not realising that the empire was overstretched and on borrowed time.
The Americans envisaged a WW1 type slog between millions of troops in Canada, but in fact the UK would have had no plans to defend Canada, it was rightly seen as indefensible. They would have fought a naval war to contain and seek to destroy the US Navy (and the Royal Navy was still bigger and more experienced at the time), perhaps taken the Philippines.
The plan was supposed to be secret, but then as now the US government leaked like a sieve and it was well known.
Anyway there are always war plans for invading everybody. I'm pretty sure the British had a similar plan. Both the US and the UK have so many failed invasions of one another to draw on as inspiration!
Re: War Plan Red
I agree, Ibrahim. One reason I agree is that the U.S. and the U.K. invaded Russia in 1919 to fight the reds.
cultivate a white rose