Firearms and other Weapons

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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby cincinnatus » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:30 am

Marcus wrote:
cincinnatus wrote:http://www.defensereview.com/chiappa-rhino-6-shot-357-magnum-revolver-for-concealed-carry-ccw-applications/

Weird looking gun, but I held the 60DS at a shop and it feels good. Nice weight, and both the single action and double action are smooth.


I used to own a S&W Highway Patrolman .357—with a 5" barrel if memory serves. I hated that gun with a passion . . the report would blow my ears off . . could hardly stand to shoot it. Ended up trading it for a Ruger Single-action (don't get excited, Ib) .44 mag, which I loved.

Can't imagine what the model above must sound like. What do you know about the model further down the page . . looks like it's ported down? For recoil or for noise?


The bottom barrel design is to control muzzle flip and to dampen recoil. I've never shot one, so no idea on the veracity (although every review I've read and the Youtube reviews tend to say it's true). Also, I've read the design makes a 38 SPCL feel like a 22 LR and the 357 feel like a 38. The 60DS is the one on the bottom you mention, and it's the one I wouldn't mind getting if I can trade two of my pistols I don't care for to lower the cost (Beretta Bobcat and a Taurus ultralight 38 SPCL). Add a pistol scope on the top rail and this could be a fun range gun. Biggest drawback I see are finding a proper holster, and the internal hammer mechanism strikes me as adding complexity to what should be the advantage of revolvers. Oh, and it's f-ing expensive--$850 for the 60DS...

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/chiappa-rhino-revolver-review-2/
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:44 am

Cinc, hail mary question here, have you shot an M249 SAW? Am thinking of the 308 version (Mk 48?), but of course shooting both for comparison is virtually impossible for me, was wondering if you have any input. Am curious about recoil management.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Marcus » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:10 pm

cincinnatus wrote:. . I've read the design makes a 38 SPCL feel like a 22 LR and the 357 feel like a 38. . .


My first time in Alaska was 1961, and during that summer had a black bear walk up on me while I was fishing . . so close I could see the brown hairs between his eyes. Got myself to Anchorage the following weekto buy a pistol for protection. Now this wasn't too long after the big bore pistols—.357 & .44 mags—hit the market with all the attendant hype about power and recoil. Ended up buying the S&W .357 simply because I was afraid the recoil of the .44 would be too much and uncomfortable to shoot.

Hated the damn' thing . . noise not recoil . . and ended up trading it for Ruger single-action .44 with still some trepidation about recoil, but I hated the .357 so much I'd have traded for just about anything. Took the .44 out that evening and ran a cylinder of .44 mags though it. To my astonishment, the recoil didn't bother me a bit, and neither did the report . . loved that gun and regret getting rid of it to this day.

Anyway, to my mind, the recoil of a .357 isn't a factor, or at least it wasn't for me. Maybe a smaller pistol would be more uncomfortable . . don't know. Noise bothers me far more than does recoil . . to my mind, you got to shoot a gun a lot to get used to it, and if you don't enjoy shooting it, it's worthless.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby cincinnatus » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:01 am

Mr. Perfect wrote:Cinc, hail mary question here, have you shot an M249 SAW? Am thinking of the 308 version (Mk 48?), but of course shooting both for comparison is virtually impossible for me, was wondering if you have any input. Am curious about recoil management.


Never shot one, or even been with a fire team that had 'em. The few times I was outside the wire with regular Army elements involved more COIN missions, so most guys had the M4s, one or two had the M203 to act as grenadiers if needed, and the heavy support would be the Caiman or MaxxPro MRAPs with M240s (missions with the bearded guys were even lighter).

Just curious...are you thinking of paying for the ATF stamp to get a full-auto version? I can't imagine the utility of a SAW as a semi-auto seeing as how it's primary role is to pin the enemy down so the flankers can take them ou, or at the focal point of an ambush...
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:08 am

yes I am thinking of buying one. Have been for some time. Orpheus M said someday soon Hispanic gangs would roam the countryside liquidating Conservative households, so I have plans for machine gun nests and need some machine guns for them. Suppressive fire and whatnot.

Trying to decide between 223 and 308.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Marcus » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:45 am

cincinnatus wrote:. . can't imagine the utility of a SAW as a semi-auto . .


Shooting in a combat match, I once shot down six, six-inch steel plates from 15 yards in nine seconds firing a double-action S&W .357 single-action (cocking the gun after each shot).
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby cincinnatus » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:29 pm

Mr. Perfect wrote:yes I am thinking of buying one. Have been for some time. Orpheus M said someday soon Hispanic gangs would roam the countryside liquidating Conservative households, so I have plans for machine gun nests and need some machine guns for them. Suppressive fire and whatnot.

Trying to decide between 223 and 308.


5.56 NATO (roughly .223) gets a bad rap because of the Law of Armed Combat rules which make us use FMJ. You civies can use more lethal and exotic rounds (well, we all can, seeing as how I have a few hundred rounds of hollow point .223s) that will make the AR-15 perfectly lethal up to 300 yds. Remember the reason the military went with 5.56 over the .308 was logistics...soldiers can carry more ready rounds in .223, and you can fly more as bulk cargo on C-5s.

That said, I chose to skip getting a 308 hunting rifle all together and just bought a rifled barrell for my Remington 870. Add in some of the 12-gauge sabot slugs, and I can put a bigger hole in something out to 300 yds than a 308. But, a 308 or 338 Lapua in a pure sniper rifle would get you out to 800 yds...if you have $5K to burn, try this
http://www.impactguns.com/accuracy-international-awsm-arctic-warfare-super-magnum-338-lapua-awsm338.aspx
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Mr. Perfect » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:42 am

I shoot my 30-06 out to a 1000 yards fairly regularly, that's not too much of a problem, and it shoots a hair under moa. I have been putting off getting an upgraded LR death machine FOREVER, but when I do I'm getting a 7 rsaum custom R 700. Nowadays though the cool kids are (there are threads all over the Sniper's hide exteme long range forum) shooting a wildcat called a 375 Cheytac (408 necked down to 375) that is reliable out to 2500 yards. So the idea is you use a 7 mag or 338 lapua out to 1600 yards or so and a 375 CT for beyond that.

Desert Tactical now make a barrel switching platform for 375 CT and 50 BMG, gun is getting rave reviews.

I'm ok pinning down dudes with my little -06, but the concern is if overwhelmed or they get too close before detection. Then we might need some spray.

I'm really not sophisticated enough with machine gunnery to know if hollow points really increase your capability, I always thought machine guns were for destroying cover to get to the baddies as well as just dispatching them, hence maybe 308 is better. Sigh. Dunno what to do yet.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby cincinnatus » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:47 pm

Mr. P,
I don't get to the range enough to feel confident beyond 1000 yds, and I doubt I can get away with dropping $6K for my desired AWSM plus a good scope. To get in the 2500s for accurate shots...no way. I'll stick with being a decent guy to have on an M4 with the M203 and save $1200 for an ACOG to go with it. (BTW, my AR-15 has been great...over 1,000 rounds at the range and oddly enough never a misfire or jam...unlike my service M4s).

RE use of machine guns to break up cover...mortars (or at least M203s) are better at that, especially when the attackers have a defilade position (I.e. no bullet will punch through granite or several meters of packed soil). But, if weight and space aren't an issue, go 308. At least until you can get your hands on a nice 81mm mortar and a couple of boxes of HE rounds.

Too many options for this hobby/sport/survival gear. If I were to buy all the specific guns, scopes, reflex sights, and accessories I want, I'd be out over $10K.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Mr. Perfect » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:58 am

cincinnatus wrote:Mr. P,
I don't get to the range enough to feel confident beyond 1000 yds, and I doubt I can get away with dropping $6K for my desired AWSM plus a good scope.

Well I don't want to sound snobby or anything, but the fundamentals of LR shooting are not terribly intimidating, it's mostly just learning about minutes of angle and getting your drop data, which can be done with about half decent bolt gun (having said that I did get my M4 out to 600 yards making 3 moa groups, so of course there wasn't much reason to continue). That can be done fairly easy, and at the point you can get a zero. However shooting tight at those ranges relies on natural point of aim (from prone), trigger control and reading the wind. The latter is where the ninja bit comes in, but you can always just have fun dialing out to 1000 and making some groups however big they may be.

To get in the 2500s for accurate shots...no way. I'll stick with being a decent guy to have on an M4 with the M203 and save $1200 for an ACOG to go with it. (BTW, my AR-15 has been great...over 1,000 rounds at the range and oddly enough never a misfire or jam...unlike my service M4s).

That's very interesting. Although it has it's uses I'm not a big fan of the AR, and am dying for a SCAR in 6.8, I'm pretty much done with 5.56. People won't even hunt deer with it.

My go to gun is going to be a DS Arms FAL (308) hopefully gets built in the next few months, can't decide if I should go with the 7 mag or get the FAL.

RE use of machine guns to break up cover...mortars (or at least M203s) are better at that, especially when the attackers have a defilade position (I.e. no bullet will punch through granite or several meters of packed soil). But, if weight and space aren't an issue, go 308. At least until you can get your hands on a nice 81mm mortar and a couple of boxes of HE rounds.

Sounds good. :)

Generally I go for as much power as you can handle, but reality is that recoil effects performance, so I'm trying to find out if the difference is significant between the two in a machine gun platform.

Too many options for this hobby/sport/survival gear. If I were to buy all the specific guns, scopes, reflex sights, and accessories I want, I'd be out over $10K.

No joke.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:51 pm

Great news! The MK 48 switches to 5.56 with three replacement parts, problem solved!
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby cincinnatus » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:52 am

Good for you Mr. P; makes the decision easier. My gun guru at work has me thinking about a 7mm option for the med-long range gun. I saw a nice Remington 700 7mm for half what I'd pay for a different caliber AR upper.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:13 am

Oh yeah, anyone who doesn't have to shoot a 308 is shooting a 7mm magnum of some kind, the cool kids are shooting the 7 Remington short magnum. High performance highly efficient round that utilizes 180 grain Berger bullets. Great gun.

Show this to your guy.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... ost2926609

All the 7mms are pretty good though.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:26 am

Also, I've been meaning to tell you, as far as you sig goes you have to give the bike back.
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Saiga-12 semi-automatic shotgun

Postby Azrael » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:08 pm

Image

The Saiga-12 is a 12-gauge combat shotgun available in a wide range of configurations, visually patterned after the Kalashnikov series of assault rifles. Like the Kalashnikov rifle variants, it is a rotating bolt, gas-operated gun that feeds from a box magazine. All Saiga-12 configurations are recognizable as Kalashnikov-pattern guns by the large lever-safety on the right side of the receiver, the optic mounting rail on the left side of the receiver and the large top-mounted dust cover held in place by the rear of the recoil spring assembly.
The looser tolerances of AK-style designs result in high reliability—an enormous boon on a semi-automatic shotgun, as this class of weapon had previously tended towards unreliability.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Mr. Perfect » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:53 am

I think that is a good gun Az. I would also suggest a Remington 870 shotgun in a cheaper pump configuration, very reliable, very deadly, very handy for self defense. Also very customizable, almost like and AR-15, plentiful parts.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby cincinnatus » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:50 am

Held one of these today at the local shop. Feels good (only ~6.5 lbs), versatile, decent round (.308)...I've been back and forth between a .270, 30-06, .308 and 7mm Rem Mag for a bigger thump gun that can handle any game in the lower-48, plentiful ammo, and not scare a 110 lb woman with recoil if she had to shoot it (and can range out to 200-500 yds). 7mm ammo is kind of pricey, so it'll probably be between a bolt-action .270, 30-06 or go "good at everything/great at nothing" gun like the Ruger Gunsite Scout and add a suppressor.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:52 am

Yeah, in that category you'll lose your mind trying to pick the best one, which means you should pick a 308, that's what it does.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby noddy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:20 am

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/ ... eal-world/

$17,000 Linux-powered rifle brings “auto-aim” to the real world
Austin-based startup makes “Precision Guided Firearms” sporting a lot of tech.


TrackingPoint makes "Precision Guided Firearms, or "PGFs," which are a series of three heavily customized hunting rifles, ranging from a .300 Winchester Magnum with a 22-inch barrel up to a .338 Lapua Magnum with 27-inch barrel, all fitted with advanced computerized scopes that look like something directly out of The Terminator. Indeed, the comparison to that movie is somewhat apt, because looking through the scope of a Precision Guided Firearm presents you with a collection of data points and numbers, all designed to get a bullet directly from point A to point B.


The PGF isn't just a fancy scope on top of a rifle. All together, the PGF is made up of a firearm, a modified trigger mechanism with variable weighting, the computerized digital tracking scope, and hand-loaded match grade rounds (which you need to purchase from TrackingPoint). This is a little like selling both the razor and the razor blades, but the rounds must be manufactured to tight tolerances since precise guidance of a round to a target by the rifle's computer requires that the round perform within known boundaries.
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Typhoon » Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:04 pm

Had trouble deciding if this goes in the physics section under non-Newtonian fluids or here.

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I did it!

Postby Mr. Perfect » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:23 am

I finally ordered a pair of FALs from DS Arms, build time is expected to be 3 months. Will have a modern rail on top of the receiver, each will have a SOPMOD buttstock and rail handguards. One will have a 21 inch barrel, the other 16, with a long and mid rail matching, for comparison. I'm really excited. 308 power in the coolest battle rifle ever made.

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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Hoosiernorm » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:47 am

Been busy doing stuff
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Typhoon » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:52 pm

When you're out of ammo . . .



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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Azrael » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:54 am

Butchering holy cows -- a gun-blogger takes some famous guns to task
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Re: Firearms and other Weapons

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:40 am

Trying to revive the thread. List your favorite guns, not necessarily for debate.

My favorite gun:

1) Desert Eagle in 44 mag. I have it in the other calibers (conversions) and I LOVE this gun. I take it anywhere I can. It exudes brutality and grace all at the same time. Some of my most peaceful moments have been with my DE in hand. Deep inner peace.

2) Beretta 96A1. 40 cal beretta, exquisitely beautiful and I have a number. My workhorse gun.

3) FN FAL. My DS Arms 16 incher is a thing of beauty and function, the best delivery system I can think of for a wide application of 308.

4) Marlin 30/30 Lever. What a great gun and underrated caliber. NO 223 concerns. Point and pull and run the lever. If there was an altercation in my yard this may be the gun I would grab. In fact if I had to go out the door on any kind of short notice this may be the rifle I grab on the way out. No magazines, optics, ftf, buttons to push just rack it and crack it.

5) S&W 629s. When I started buying modern guns I eschewed revolvers, I thought they were obsolete, and never gave them a second thought. However I have a neighbor who has several and actually used to shoot them competitively, and when he placed one in my hand I felt the Presence of the Lord and I heard the angels sing. Just something you don't argue with. I am a 44 magnum enthusiast and love reloading 44 so fo course a 629 is just another way to shoot that. Also the medium frames are a great way to emit 357 magnum to those that deserve it. Great guns.

6) Tacticool 870. I'm not much of a shotgunner (yet, it's becoming a priority), I cut my teeth on marksmanship and so the shotgun mentality isn't that intuitive to me, I like to think in terms of penetration and temporary stretch cavity, the shotgun and any kind of range I don't quite get. I tacticalized and 870 and I do like it. A great shotgunner is a great gun handler though, I have a lot of respect for that

Top gun I want is a Browning Hi Power in 40 cal. I would love to have one.

BTW I have sold all these guns, you just don't need them.
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