What if?

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YMix
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What if?

Post by YMix »

While reading the latest installment in Caro's story of the life and power of Lyndon Johnson, I got to the part where Richard Russell contemplated the implications of LBJ's rise to the presidency and understood that Johnson would be able to do what no other president could: defeat the South in the Senate. And I started wondering...

What if the South decided to secede again? At first glance I'd say that it stands a much better chance today for the following reasons:
- people are used to the idea since it has already happened once;
- the doomed rebellion of the South has a romantic appeal to it;
- I don't see the North's youth volunteering to defend the Union with their lives;
- slavery is gone and the Southerners cannot be accused of seceding in order to "keep the darkies down".

My guess is they could make a better case for secession today. They could even establish a defense partnership with the North in order to avoid splitting the army. Of course, the economic aspects are not good for the South, as far as I can tell.
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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits
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Re: What if?

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

You can't motivate them with idealism, you can with hatred. Just about every hippie I know secretly wants to kill a peckerwood and it's hidden in the subconscious murk in these parts that every southerner is disgusting. Like arabs, but with even nastier tasting food........
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Marcus
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Y'all come on down . . .

Post by Marcus »

Oh, hell, yes, they could make a better stab at secession today than they did 150 years ago, but why would they want to? Why would the North want them to?

And what's this crapola about Southerners as "Arabs" and bad-tasting Southern food? Lizz, you ain't hearing that nonsense from "hippies," you're hearing that stuff from ignorant "peckerwoods."
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Miss_Faucie_Fishtits
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Re: What if?

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

I live in Minnesota, home of the 'hot dish'...... merp, I'll leave it right there. And if it's cajun cooking we're talking about, that's not even considered 'southern'. I don't condone this mode of thinking, it's absurd and stupid. I've been with people whose 'ideals' are mere pigheaded prejudice. I'll tell you..... many people in Minnesota consider themselves better than others, but they themselves are stupider and more easily manipulated. Let's not cross the border into cheesehead land and I don't wanna know what happens west to the dakotas. My response to Ymix's point is getting young people to fight for an ideal may not be operational, but you can get 'em to fight on their knee-jerk bigotry. Especially if they lack self-honesty in the bargain.....'>........
- slavery is gone and the Southerners cannot be accused of seceding in order to "keep the darkies down".
Nobody cares...... as long as a cracker lives, a black child is threatened. Think of the emotional response when you mention clubbing a baby seal, it's reflex. Besides; nobody's gonna secede, everything's gonna disintegrate. No 'state' in the union is prepared to function as an independent national entity on the global stage. Okay..... maybe ahead of Somalia, except where libertarians run the show..... then you will have Somalia.....XDDDD..........
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Marcus
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Re: What if?

Post by Marcus »

Fair enough, Lizz, but don't ever try to tell a coon-ass* he ain't a Southerner. Besides, lotsa good Southern cookin' without having to get down on Bayou Lafourche—chicken-fried steak, fried 'taters, and a side of purple-hull peas . . yum, yum.

Anyway, I agree that "getting young people to fight for an ideal may not be operational, but you can get 'em to fight on their knee-jerk bigotry." I mean, who gives a sh*t for what these days of bread and circuses? The latest video game, maybe, but what else?

But speaking of secession, we talk about it up here from time to time . . . c'mon up . . here where I live we got milder winters than Minnesota.


  • *what Cajuns call themselves
"The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time."
--- Richard Nixon
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Re: What if?

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

;) ..........

Lazy ppl get bored and easily motivated by their passions. Propagandising thru g8mz is a perfect way to seed the mix. Stir well, and throw in the general direction of the designated pest. They don't have to be good to be effective...... just cannon fodder.....'>.....
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Marcus
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Re: What if?

Post by Marcus »

What is "g8mz"?

Beware optirectalitis* . . . . ;)


  • *A condition where the optic nerves become entangled with the rectal nerves resulting in a sh*tty outlook.

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God 's in His heaven—
All 's right with the world!
"The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time."
--- Richard Nixon
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Ibrahim
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Re: What if?

Post by Ibrahim »

The only thing I have to add is that Southern and Arab food are both delicious. I think the Chinese still have everyone beat, but if you're tired of brisket or shawarma you're tired of life.
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Re: What if?

Post by Marcus »

Ibrahim wrote:The only thing I have to add is that Southern and Arab food are both delicious. I think the Chinese still have everyone beat, but if you're tired of brisket or shawarma you're tired of life.
Gotta disagree . . eat a huge meal of Chinese food and twenty minutes later you're hungry . . ;)

Give me Italian or Mexican any day of the week . . . :D
"The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time."
--- Richard Nixon
******************
"I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels."
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Re: What if?

Post by YMix »

Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:My response to Ymix's point is getting young people to fight for an ideal may not be operational, but you can get 'em to fight on their knee-jerk bigotry. Especially if they lack self-honesty in the bargain.....'>........
That's a good point.
Nobody cares...... as long as a cracker lives, a black child is threatened. Think of the emotional response when you mention clubbing a baby seal, it's reflex.
True, but the institution is gone. As for racism, that's not confined to the South.
Besides; nobody's gonna secede, everything's gonna disintegrate. No 'state' in the union is prepared to function as an independent national entity on the global stage.
The South was not prepared for war back in 1860. Lack of preparedness never stopped anybody. :)
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Re: What if?

Post by Miss_Faucie_Fishtits »

Good points all, and especially so when the dollar bites the thick one......'P...........
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Re: What if?

Post by Mr. Perfect »

I think the more likely option now would be for the NE to secede from the Union. Hand CA to Mexico and we'll have a right proper country.
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Re: What if?

Post by Typhoon »

Mr. Perfect wrote:I think the more likely option now would be for the NE to secede from the Union. Hand CA to Mexico and we'll have a right proper country.
This proposal sounds vaguely familiar . . .

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Re: What if?

Post by Enki »

The South doesn't actually want to secede.
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Re: What if?

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Canada won't get California (not saying you're saying that).
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Re: What if?

Post by Ibrahim »

Enki wrote:The South doesn't actually want to secede.
It's a bit like the situation with Quebec in Canada. Certain people like to talk about secession/separation, but in the end they realize that they get a better deal as part of the Republic/Confederation. Many of the Southern states (obvious exception Texas) benefit from tax wealth transferred to them from more productive Northern and Coastal states, just like Quebec receives money from wealthier Provinces like Alberta and Ontario.

In Canada we call them "transfer payments" and fiscal conservatives like to bring them up. In the US you don't call them anything because nobody really talks about it.
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Re: What if?

Post by Mr. Perfect »

No, we talk about it and call it "making suckers out of Democrats".
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Re: What if?

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

eOi0tC00Luc
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Enki
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Re: What if?

Post by Enki »

The most serious secession movement in this country is in Puerto Rico, and they don't actually want to secede either. I think statehood is a stronger movement in PR than secession.
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Re: What if?

Post by Hoosiernorm »

Typhoon wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:I think the more likely option now would be for the NE to secede from the Union. Hand CA to Mexico and we'll have a right proper country.
This proposal sounds vaguely familiar . . .

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Re: What if?

Post by Azrael »

YMix wrote:While reading the latest installment in Caro's story of the life and power of Lyndon Johnson, I got to the part where Richard Russell contemplated the implications of LBJ's rise to the presidency and understood that Johnson would be able to do what no other president could: defeat the South in the Senate. And I started wondering...

What if the South decided to secede again? At first glance I'd say that it stands a much better chance today for the following reasons:
- people are used to the idea since it has already happened once;
- the doomed rebellion of the South has a romantic appeal to it;
- I don't see the North's youth volunteering to defend the Union with their lives;
- slavery is gone and the Southerners cannot be accused of seceding in order to "keep the darkies down".
Slavery is the whole reason they left.

They won't leave now. They have no good reason too, and they're addicted to the Yankee money they've been getting since FDR, TVA, ect.
My guess is they could make a better case for secession today.
What case? You damn Yankees don't put enough sugar in mah sweet tea at McDonalds?
They could even establish a defense partnership with the North in order to avoid splitting the army.
Rebel, but without splitting the army . . . that sounds like quite a trick.
Of course, the economic aspects are not good for the South, as far as I can tell.
Damn sure.
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Re: What if?

Post by YMix »

What case? You damn Yankees don't put enough sugar in mah sweet tea at McDonalds?
"Your ways and ours are incompatible and we'd rather pursue a separate political and social course." Good enough?
Rebel, but without splitting the army . . . that sounds like quite a trick.
The South will need money, the North will need soldiers. Weapons and ammo factories will have to keep cooperating because the system was designed at national level. Military bases need not be relocated. The two potential countries would be separated by a long and hard to defend border. It's not in anybody's interest to see the other country fall.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Re: What if?

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Azrael wrote: They won't leave now. They have no good reason too, and they're addicted to the Yankee money they've been getting since FDR, TVA, ect.
When the spigots shut off or when they simply run dry (and one day, this will happen) it will be very interesting to see how much affection all that cash has bought.
Rebel, but without splitting the army . . . that sounds like quite a trick.
Isn't this what Scotland seems prepared to do as they move closer towards dissolving their unity with Northern Ireland, Wales and England?
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Re: What if?

Post by YMix »

Well, Scotland said no. But...
Exclusive: Angry with Washington, 1 in 4 Americans open to secession

(Reuters) - The failed Scottish vote to pull out from the United Kingdom stirred secessionist hopes for some in the United States, where almost a quarter of people are open to their states leaving the union, a new Reuters/Ipsos poll found.

Some 23.9 percent of Americans polled from Aug. 23 through Sept. 16 said they strongly supported or tended to support the idea of their state breaking away, while 53.3 percent of the 8,952 respondents strongly opposed or tended to oppose the notion.

The urge to sever ties with Washington cuts across party lines and regions, though Republicans and residents of rural Western states are generally warmer to the idea than Democrats and Northeasterners, according to the poll.

Anger with President Barack Obama's handling of issues ranging from healthcare reform to the rise of Islamic State militants drives some of the feeling, with Republican respondents citing dissatisfaction with his administration as coloring their thinking.

But others said long-running Washington gridlock had prompted them to wonder if their states would be better off striking out on their own, a move no U.S. state has tried in the 150 years since the bloody Civil War that led to the end of slavery in the South.

"I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference anymore which political party is running things. Nothing gets done," said Roy Gustafson, 61, of Camden, South Carolina, who lives on disability payments. "The state would be better off handling things on its own."

Scottish unionists won by a wider-than-expected 10-percentage-point margin.

Falling public approval of the Obama administration, attention to the Scottish vote and the success of activists who accuse the U.S. government of overstepping its authority - such as the self-proclaimed militia members who flocked to Nevada's Bundy ranch earlier this year during a standoff over grazing rights - is driving up interest in secession, experts said.

"It seems to have heated up, especially since the election of President Obama," said Mordecai Lee, a professor of governmental affairs at the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee, who has studied secessionist movements.

'OBAMACARE' A FACTOR

Republicans were more inclined to support the idea, with 29.7 percent favoring it compared with 21 percent of Democrats.

Brittany Royal, a 31-year-old nurse from Wilkesboro, North Carolina, said anger over the "Obamacare" healthcare reform law made her wonder if her state would be better off on its own.

"That has really hurt a lot of people here, myself included. My insurance went from $40 a week for a family of four up to over $600 a month for a family of four," said Royal, a Republican. "The North Carolina government itself is sustainable. Governor (Pat) McCrory, I think he has a better healthcare plan than President Obama."

By region, the idea was least popular in New England, the cradle of the Revolutionary War, with just 17.4 percent of respondents open to pulling their state out.

It was most popular in the Southwest, where 34.1 percent of respondents back the idea.

That region includes Texas, where an activist group is calling the state's legislature to put the secession question on a statewide ballot. One Texan respondent said he was confident his state could get by without the rest of the country.

"Texas has everything we need. We have the manufacturing, we have the oil, and we don't need them," said Mark Denny, a 59-year-old retiree living outside Dallas on disability payments.

Denny, a Republican, had cheered on the Scottish independence movement.

"I have totally, completely lost faith in the federal government, the people running it, whether Republican, Democrat, independent, whatever," he said.

Even in Texas, some respondents said talk about breaking away was more of a sign of their anger with Washington than evidence of a real desire to go it alone. Democrat Lila Guzman, of Round Rock, said the threat could persuade Washington lawmakers and the White House to listen more closely to average people's concerns.

"When I say secede, I'm not like (former National Rifle Association president) Charlton Heston with my gun up in the air, 'my cold dead hands.' It's more like – we could do it if we had to," said Guzman, 62. "But the first option is, golly, get it back on the right track. Not all is lost. But there might come a point that we say, 'Hey, y'all, we're dusting our hands and we're moving on.'"
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
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