Jeff Connaughton Wall Street Lobbyist on Occupy Wall Street

Now, what news on the Rialto?
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Enki
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Jeff Connaughton Wall Street Lobbyist on Occupy Wall Street

Post by Enki »

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/25412035

This is a fascinating talk.

This guy is a former advisor to Joe Biden.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
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Juggernaut Nihilism
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Re: Jeff Connaughton Wall Street Lobbyist on Occupy Wall Str

Post by Juggernaut Nihilism »

Good stuff, although every time someone other than Connaughton was talking I wanted to stick hot pokers in my ears. Especially that 23 year old female with the snotty voice who apparently didn't recognize the irony when she was trying to instruct someone with the speaker's experience 'what history has shown us'. If Occupy, or whatever it becomes now that the Occupy brand has been tarnished, has any chance at future relevance, it will be by taking his advice and laser focusing on Wall Street's criminality and the money in politics that allowed it to happen.

The left's obsession with inclusion, the idea that every grievance had to be given equal time and priority, catrated anything they were trying to do. You can have non mainstream ideas about promoting an entirely new social model, a gift economy, the end of private property, and allowing girls to pee standing up if you like, but keep that lavender compartmentalized. Otherwise don't be surprised when the cops come beat your ass and nobody cares.

If Occupy had just stuck with the Wall St. and money in politics themes, and the cops showed up to whoop ass, they would have had a lot of sympathy and everything would be different today. Instead, the average American, instead of seeing cops beating a bunch of people protesting Wall St criminality, they see cops beating a bunch of people on the record talking a bunch of crazy lavender that they have never heard before and that makes them uncomfortable. And so you end up with most people caught in oe of those decision loops, where they don't like that cops are beating these kids, and they agree with the parts about Wall St, but given all the unfamiliar stuff being said, maybe FoxNews is right after all, maybe they are dangerous...
"The fundamental rule of political analysis from the point of psychology is, follow the sacredness, and around it is a ring of motivated ignorance."
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Enki
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Re: Jeff Connaughton Wall Street Lobbyist on Occupy Wall Str

Post by Enki »

Juggernaut Nihilism wrote:Good stuff, although every time someone other than Connaughton was talking I wanted to stick hot pokers in my ears. Especially that 23 year old female with the snotty voice who apparently didn't recognize the irony when she was trying to instruct someone with the speaker's experience 'what history has shown us'. If Occupy, or whatever it becomes now that the Occupy brand has been tarnished, has any chance at future relevance, it will be by taking his advice and laser focusing on Wall Street's criminality and the money in politics that allowed it to happen.
Heh yeah, I know her actually rather well. Have a serious personal problem with her.
The left's obsession with inclusion, the idea that every grievance had to be given equal time and priority, catrated anything they were trying to do. You can have non mainstream ideas about promoting an entirely new social model, a gift economy, the end of private property, and allowing girls to pee standing up if you like, but keep that lavender compartmentalized. Otherwise don't be surprised when the cops come beat your ass and nobody cares.
*shrugs* Who has the authority to pick and choose who is a part of the horizontal structure? I guess you are saying that non-hierarchical organizations simply do not work. A lot of people are saying that. I don't know that it's true considering how many tens of thousands were in the streets today. There is no possible way to 'keep it compartmentalized'. When the ''girls should pee standing up' contingent shows up to voice their concerns should someone hit them in the face and tell them to shut the genuflect up? That freedom of speech thing it's a fickle bitch.
If Occupy had just stuck with the Wall St. and money in politics themes, and the cops showed up to whoop ass, they would have had a lot of sympathy and everything would be different today. Instead, the average American, instead of seeing cops beating a bunch of people protesting Wall St criminality, they see cops beating a bunch of people on the record talking a bunch of crazy lavender that they have never heard before and that makes them uncomfortable. And so you end up with most people caught in oe of those decision loops, where they don't like that cops are beating these kids, and they agree with the parts about Wall St, but given all the unfamiliar stuff being said, maybe FoxNews is right after all, maybe they are dangerous...
Occupy HAS mostly just stuck to Wall St and Money in Politics. It's the dishonest media that says differently. The message is actually pretty much that, plus police brutality issues, since you know, the police are actually brutalizing people all the time. Take any random sampling of people and you get what you get. Should we say that the Tea Party had an inconsistent message because some idiots were worried about Obama's birth certificate? I don't really see that the Tea Party message is more consistent or coherent than Occupy's.

That's populism for you. The rebuttal you are advancing is just as stupid populism as that which it is criticizing as it shows a glaring ignorance of what the word 'populism' means. People all the time say what you said which basically amounts to, "Occupy needs to have a cohesive brand message like every corporation with multi-million dollar PR departments do.", decentralized organization is decentralized, news at 11. I see it as the opposite, I think it's a genuflecting miracle that the message is as cohesive and coherent as it is.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
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Juggernaut Nihilism
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Re: Jeff Connaughton Wall Street Lobbyist on Occupy Wall Str

Post by Juggernaut Nihilism »

Well you can make a dogma out of de-centralization if you want, I guess. It really just depends on what you want to accomplish. If your goal is to 'change things', you aren't going to do that by bring a knife to a gunfight. It would be as if the Greeks, when facing the Persian slave armies, had eschewed the benefits of military discipline and chain of command because those things would go against the idea of the free and self-directed citizen.

If, on the other hand, you aren't really concerned with changing anything, but just with creating parallel institutions so that people can opt out of the capitalist death match if they want to, then you can do whatever you like. Be non-hierarchical and de-centralized and anti-whatever. But then, you can do this on your land upstate, you don't need Zucotti Park, or protests, or to even care that Wall St is lawless and politicians are corrupt.
"The fundamental rule of political analysis from the point of psychology is, follow the sacredness, and around it is a ring of motivated ignorance."
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Enki
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Re: Jeff Connaughton Wall Street Lobbyist on Occupy Wall Str

Post by Enki »

Juggernaut Nihilism wrote:Well you can make a dogma out of de-centralization if you want, I guess. It really just depends on what you want to accomplish. If your goal is to 'change things', you aren't going to do that by bring a knife to a gunfight. It would be as if the Greeks, when facing the Persian slave armies, had eschewed the benefits of military discipline and chain of command because those things would go against the idea of the free and self-directed citizen.
The thing about de-centralization is that all the combat metaphors that we so lovingly apply to politics and business don't so much work. It's about going off in a direction orthogonal to the guy blocking you. Play a different game that the dumb linebacker doesn't even comprehend isn't football. ;)
If, on the other hand, you aren't really concerned with changing anything, but just with creating parallel institutions so that people can opt out of the capitalist death match if they want to, then you can do whatever you like. Be non-hierarchical and de-centralized and anti-whatever. But then, you can do this on your land upstate, you don't need Zucotti Park, or protests, or to even care that Wall St is lawless and politicians are corrupt.
Obsolescence isn't exactly 'opting out', it's just modelling your life differently. The big problem here is that people think there must be some sort of antagonistic relationship, as the old paradigm is built upon antagonistic relationships. If you go out into the boonies, build a farm, invite your friends and don't bother anybody, nobody is gonna bother you. You can still go to the mall, sell your goods on ebay, see a movie, attend a church. It's not opting out.

Lateral structure at the end of the day is precisely 90 degrees in another direction from being 'anti' things.

I don't actually give a lavender about Zuccotti Park or holding it or any of that. Getting better politicians into place is a good thing, I'm gonna be working that angle til 2014, I've got 7 candidates for city council that I am backing.

I rarely actually get out into the streets and shake my fists. The most I do in terms of street agitation is troll the cops who are guarding wall street and talk to them about how their pensions are being ripped off by the people they are guarding.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
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