Nordic economic reform

Now, what news on the Rialto?
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Typhoon
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Nordic economic reform

Post by Typhoon »

Economist | The next supermodel
Politicians from both right and left could learn from the Nordic countries
SMALLISH countries are often in the vanguard when it comes to reforming government. In the 1980s Britain was out in the lead, thanks to Thatcherism and privatisation. Tiny Singapore has long been a role model for many reformers. Now the Nordic countries are likely to assume a similar role.

That is partly because the four main Nordics—Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland—are doing rather well. If you had to be reborn anywhere in the world as a person with average talents and income, you would want to be a Viking. The Nordics cluster at the top of league tables of everything from economic competitiveness to social health to happiness. They have avoided both southern Europe’s economic sclerosis and America’s extreme inequality. Development theorists have taken to calling successful modernisation “getting to Denmark”. Meanwhile a region that was once synonymous with do-it-yourself furniture and Abba has even become a cultural haven, home to “The Killing”, Noma and “Angry Birds”.
The idea of lean Nordic government will come as a shock both to French leftists who dream of socialist Scandinavia and to American conservatives who fear that Barack Obama is bent on “Swedenisation”. They are out of date. In the 1970s and 1980s the Nordics were indeed tax-and-spend countries. Sweden’s public spending reached 67% of GDP in 1993. Astrid Lindgren, the inventor of Pippi Longstocking, was forced to pay more than 100% of her income in taxes. But tax-and-spend did not work: Sweden fell from being the fourth-richest country in the world in 1970 to the 14th in 1993.

Since then the Nordics have changed course—mainly to the right. Government’s share of GDP in Sweden, which has dropped by around 18 percentage points, is lower than France’s and could soon be lower than Britain’s. Taxes have been cut: the corporate rate is 22%, far lower than America’s. The Nordics have focused on balancing the books. While Mr Obama and Congress dither over entitlement reform, Sweden has reformed its pension system. Its budget deficit is 0.3% of GDP; America’s is 7%.
The main lesson to learn from the Nordics is not ideological but practical. The state is popular not because it is big but because it works. A Swede pays tax more willingly than a Californian because he gets decent schools and free health care. The Nordics have pushed far-reaching reforms past unions and business lobbies. The proof is there. You can inject market mechanisms into the welfare state to sharpen its performance. You can put entitlement programmes on sound foundations to avoid beggaring future generations. But you need to be willing to root out corruption and vested interests. And you must be ready to abandon tired orthodoxies of the left and right and forage for good ideas across the political spectrum. The world will be studying the Nordic model for years to come.
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Endovelico
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Re: Nordic economic reform

Post by Endovelico »

The Economist is presently one of the most intellectually dishonest papers in the civilized world...
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Re: Nordic economic reform

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Endovelico wrote:The Economist is presently one of the most intellectually dishonest papers in the civilized world...
Perhaps. Then again, perhaps not.

Anyways, I prefer to read, say, the Guardian and the FT and consider the articles on their own merits or lack thereof.

Back to the topic: what about the Nordic economies?
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Re: Nordic economic reform

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The only relevant thing in that article was:
The main lesson to learn from the Nordics is not ideological but practical. The state is popular not because it is big but because it works. A Swede pays tax more willingly than a Californian because he gets decent schools and free health care.
Everything else was BS... For any intelligent leftist the state is not an end in itself but a means to an end. The state must do what individuals can't do on their own. I guess Nordics have put that into practice better than anyone else, so far.
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Re: Nordic economic reform

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Endovelico wrote:The only relevant thing in that article was:
The main lesson to learn from the Nordics is not ideological but practical. The state is popular not because it is big but because it works. A Swede pays tax more willingly than a Californian because he gets decent schools and free health care.
Everything else was BS...
Are you calling it BS because you think it is inaccurate with regards to it's description of the Nordic economic reform or on ideological grounds?
Endovelico wrote:For any intelligent leftist the state is not an end in itself but a means to an end.
History is, unfortunately, full of mission creep examples wherein the end came to justify any means.
Endovelico wrote:The state must do what individuals can't do on their own. . . .
Possibly. However, corporations also do what individual cannot do on their own.
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Re: Nordic economic reform

Post by noddy »

smaller countries with solid exports can afford social things that larger countries without them, cannot.

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golly gosh, them buggers made themselves useful to the germans.
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Re: Nordic economic reform

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Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:The only relevant thing in that article was:
The main lesson to learn from the Nordics is not ideological but practical. The state is popular not because it is big but because it works. A Swede pays tax more willingly than a Californian because he gets decent schools and free health care.
Everything else was BS...
Are you calling it BS because you think it is inaccurate with regards to it's description of the Nordic economic reform or on ideological grounds?
Because it is irrelevant and simply meant to further an ideological agenda.
Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:The state must do what individuals can't do on their own. . . .
Possibly. However, corporations also do what individual cannot do on their own.
With a major difference: the state may do things based only on the common good ideal; corporations think only of their own interest.
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Re: Nordic economic reform

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Endovelico wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:The only relevant thing in that article was:
The main lesson to learn from the Nordics is not ideological but practical. The state is popular not because it is big but because it works. A Swede pays tax more willingly than a Californian because he gets decent schools and free health care.
Everything else was BS...
Are you calling it BS because you think it is inaccurate with regards to it's description of the Nordic economic reform or on ideological grounds?
Because it is irrelevant and simply meant to further an ideological agenda.
Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:The state must do what individuals can't do on their own. . . .
Possibly. However, corporations also do what individual cannot do on their own.
With a major difference: the state may do things based only on the common good ideal; corporations think only of their own interest.
What was the common good ideal behind WW1 and WWII? Both global wars were between states.

What was the common good ideal behind the states of Hitlerist Germany, Statlinist Russia, Maoist China, Pol Potist Cambodia, etc, etc, etc?
All murdered their own citizens en masse.

If states can only do common good, why have they produced orders of magnitude higher body counts than any corporation or even organized crime.
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Re: Nordic economic reform

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Typhoon wrote:What was the common good ideal behind WW1 and WWII? Both global wars were between states.

What was the common good ideal behind the states of Hitlerist Germany, Statlinist Russia, Maoist China, Pol Potist Cambodia, etc, etc, etc?
All murdered their own citizens en masse.
All of the above thought they were furthering the good of their respective countries. The fact that we may disagree with that view doesn't change the fact that they thought they were fighting for the good of their peoples.

Corporations don't even try to pretend that they care for society as a whole.
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Re: Nordic economic reform

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Endovelico wrote:
Typhoon wrote:What was the common good ideal behind WW1 and WWII? Both global wars were between states.

What was the common good ideal behind the states of Hitlerist Germany, Statlinist Russia, Maoist China, Pol Potist Cambodia, etc, etc, etc?
All murdered their own citizens en masse.
All of the above thought they were furthering the good of their respective countries. The fact that we may disagree with that view doesn't change the fact that they thought they were fighting for the good of their peoples.

Corporations don't even try to pretend that they care for society as a whole.
I'll take the pragmatic over the ideological: uncaring corporations with many orders of magnitude lower body count over the state killing it's citizens en masse, by the tens of millions, for their supposed benefit.

Yuri Zhivago over Pavel Antipov.
Defend me from [ideologically motivated] altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Re: Nordic economic reform

Post by Azrael »

noddy wrote:smaller countries with solid exports can afford social things that larger countries without them, cannot.

Image


golly gosh, them buggers made themselves useful to the germans.
That's a surprising chart for Norway. Norway exports a lot of oil and gas to Germany, so I would have expected them to have little or no deficit.
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Good Intentions and $1..........

Post by monster_gardener »

Endovelico wrote:
Typhoon wrote:What was the common good ideal behind WW1 and WWII? Both global wars were between states.

What was the common good ideal behind the states of Hitlerist Germany, Statlinist Russia, Maoist China, Pol Potist Cambodia, etc, etc, etc?
All murdered their own citizens en masse.
All of the above thought they were furthering the good of their respective countries. The fact that we may disagree with that view doesn't change the fact that they thought they were fighting for the good of their peoples.

Corporations don't even try to pretend that they care for society as a whole.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Endo.
All of the above thought they were furthering the good of their respective countries. .......... they thought they were fighting for the good of their peoples.
Those alleged good intentions and $1 might buy a plastic flower to place on the graves of their victims..........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Idealistic Tyrants vs Vice & Corruption... GO VICE!

Post by monster_gardener »

Typhoon wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Typhoon wrote:What was the common good ideal behind WW1 and WWII? Both global wars were between states.

What was the common good ideal behind the states of Hitlerist Germany, Statlinist Russia, Maoist China, Pol Potist Cambodia, etc, etc, etc?
All murdered their own citizens en masse.
All of the above thought they were furthering the good of their respective countries. The fact that we may disagree with that view doesn't change the fact that they thought they were fighting for the good of their peoples.

Corporations don't even try to pretend that they care for society as a whole.
I'll take the pragmatic over the ideological: uncaring corporations with many orders of magnitude lower body count over the state killing it's citizens en masse, by the tens of millions, for their supposed benefit.

Yuri Zhivago over Pavel Antipov.
Defend me from [ideologically motivated] altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
~ Typhoon
Thank You VERY Much for your post, Typhoon.

Seconded............

C.S. Lewis says pretty much the same thing...........
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/33029.html

A reason that especially in idealistic tyrannies, corruption & vice can become good things.... can allow you to buy someone out of prison or an execution.... the corrupted tyrants can be bribed.... Oskar Schindler did a lot of this sort of schmoozing...........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
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