Paid maternal leave

[manolo]

Folks,

There are 188 countries in the world with paid maternal leave.

There are 8 countries with no paid maternal leave. These are:

Suriname
Liberia
Palau
Papua New Guinea
Nauru
Western Samoa
Tonga
United States of America.

http://twistedsifter.com/2013/08/maps-t ... the-world/

This is quite interesting. We might think that these facts are to do with affordability, as the countries in the list of 8 are mostly poor, with low GDP. However, there is one country in the list which does have a reasonable GDP and could afford to meet global standards. Is there some ideological reason why a wealthier country would be in that second list?

Alex.

[Simple Minded]

Alex,

glad to hear you don't have cancer. One of my friends was recently diagnosed with cancer. Not good news for anyone, ever.

I don't think it is ideological. Paid maternal leave simply is not federal law. It may or may not be part of a benefits package company X offers employee Y.

Whether this is good or bad is the subject of never ending discussion. Y might consider it good when she is on maternity leave, but if she is sharp, she might not like the idea of knowing she is making less all the time just to pay for the possibility of getting pregnant. Or, before and after she is of child bearing age, she might not like the idea of making less to pay for her female co-workers who are of child bearing age.

It is like the young man under 30 who wants free college, when he becomes an old fart over 60, he wants free medical & retirement income. Between ages 30 & 60, he complains about the young'uns and old farts whom he is forced to suckle........

[manolo]

Paid maternal leave simply is not federal law.

SM,

Why might that be?

Alex.

[Marcus]

Paid maternal leave simply is not federal law.

SM,

Why might that [ideological reason] be?

Alex.

Because Americans are _________________________(fill in the blank with the pejorative of your choice}.

[Simple Minded]

Paid maternal leave simply is not federal law.

SM,

Why might that be?

Alex.

I would like to say that DC has thought it thorough and that the benefit to society is questionable. But I doubt it, probably more that as industrialized nations have less children, it becomes ever more a minor issue. Other issues take priority, or mothers are too busy raising kids to effectively politically organize.

Some thoughts:
- If mothers are to be paid more via maternal leave, a financial incentive is created for employers to not hire fertile women.
- If mothers are not to be paid more, their average pay will be lower to cover "pregnancy insurance" costs.
- Paying mothers to keep working may be better for mothers in the short run (and the current tax base), but may be worse for the long term welfare of the children and more expensive for families/society in the long run (10-20 years). "Do it for the children!" has been a huge rallying cry in the US for a couple decades now.
- Thinking that people in VA, CA, NY, etc. will be happier living under standards created by DC, is akin to thinking people in England, France, Portugal, etc. will be happier living under standards created by Brussels. People tend to think the US is monolithic.
- One size fits all solutions tend to not work very well. If a world standard is good, who should determine the minimum and maximum benefits? DC? Brussels?

Maternal leave sounds like a good sound bite, but there are a lot of variables to consider. How to evaluate them all?

Too much distance, not enough vested interest, no flow of adequate information in real time.

As the story goes, a mother went to a town hall meeting. A senator at the meeting said "I care about your children as much as you do!"
The mother stands up and says "Really?....... Then what are my children's names?"

[Simple Minded]

Alex,

Another thought, here is how the debate would go in the current political climate in the US.

Gloria: I think there should be a federal law that all employers have to pay working mothers maternity leave.

Jeanine: I am sick of you right wing extremists trying to control my vagina! That is a hate crime! You are just bashing lesbians!!!

I hope that helps....

[Simple Minded]

Alex,

so what do you think? did you get my point?

The passage of paid maternal leave legislation may be viewed as making the situation better or worse..... from the perspective of the working mom, her male competitor, her non-fertile female competitor, or her lesbian competitor. Rationalization is key! Pick your perspective!

Well intentioned people demanding legislation which produces perverse incentives, hidden costs, and unintended consequences that make the negative condition one wished to ameliorate worse than before, is one of the oldest dilemma representative societies face. And that is only in the immediate, the problem of picking a time frame to measure results adds more complexity and confusion.

Whether our current problems were caused by our evil predecessors or our well intentioned predecessors is another endless discussion. Someone once noted that children tend to overcorrect the excess of their parents.

I'm pretty sure the phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" predates the birth of either of us. Fascinates me to no end to see the perspectives we all choose to focus upon or ignore as individuals. We'll never be the Borg! People can never be fixed, buy only managed!

[Azrael]

It appears that there is some empirical support to the theory that paid maternal leave increases fertility.

Here's another study (from Norway -- the first is from Australia) that also shows increases to fertility from paid maternal leave.

[Enki]

Paid maternal leave simply is not federal law.

SM,

Why might that be?

Alex.

Probably considered a power of the state.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

Why do they need paid maternal leave from their stupid jobs knitting sweaters? The ones doing other work are all lesbians anyway.

[Simple Minded]

It appears that there is some empirical support to the theory that paid maternal leave increases fertility.

Here's another study (from Norway -- the first is from Australia) that also shows increases to fertility from paid maternal leave.

Two more datapoints that PROVE that those who support paid maternal leave are right wing extremists waging a war on women to keep them barefoot, pregnant (producing future soldiers and taxpayers), and from converting to lesbianism or Islam!!!

So...., the larger question remains, why are 188 countries in the world run by right wingers who are waging a war on women and lesbians?

HEY! MALE CHAUVINIST PIGS! LET MY SISTERS GO!!!

[manolo]

I'm pretty sure the phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" predates the birth of either of us.

SM,

"Nothing can possibly be conceived in the world, or even out of it, which can be called good, without qualification, except a good will."

Immanuel Kant.

Alex.

[manolo]

Why do they need paid maternal leave from their stupid jobs knitting sweaters? The ones doing other work are all lesbians anyway.

Juggernaut,

On a toilet wall.

"My mother made me a lesbian"

"If I gave her the wool, could she make me one too?"

Alex.

[monster_gardener]

Folks,

There are 188 countries in the world with paid maternal leave.

There are 8 countries with no paid maternal leave. These are:

Suriname
Liberia
Palau
Papua New Guinea
Nauru
Western Samoa
Tonga
United States of America.

http://twistedsifter.com/2013/08/maps-t ... the-world/

This is quite interesting. We might think that these facts are to do with affordability, as the countries in the list of 8 are mostly poor, with low GDP. However, there is one country in the list which does have a reasonable GDP and could afford to meet global standards. Is there some ideological reason why a wealthier country would be in that second list?

Alex.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Alex Manolo.

What is the purpose of paid maternity leave?

If it is to stave off demographic collapse, other measures may well be and already are in order in Europe.....

In the Holy Mother Russia of President Prince Vlad the Imprisoner , a National Sex day has been instituted where the people are given a day off to make a baby for the nation with prizes for suceeding!

I doubt little that Vlad and his henchmen might well be willing to institute more energetic measures if necessary:

Here are a few......

Fining persons who do not birth or sire children...... (Hat tip to Caesar Augustus and Edgar Rice Burroughs)

Requiring all women certified as fertile to have at least 2 babies and either care for them till maturity or pay the cost of so doing.....

Outlawing abortion for any healthy fetus for any reason except MAYBE to save the life of the mother if she will have more children later!

Instituting a Birthing Corp of Women whose job is to have children one after the other to be raised by others perhaps in nationalistic orphanages staffed by a Mothering Corp of "Aunts" (Hat Tips to Margaret Atwood & the Handmaid's Tale and perhaps Plato)

Research into artificial wombs with a view to the State having the ability to procreate as needed..... (Hat tip to any number of Science Fiction authors: right now thinking about Robert Heinlein)

Feel free to add your own ideas....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6990802.stm

[Nonc Hilaire]

National Sex Day? I bet it would be a Sunday in the US so everybody would be home anyway.

That's what they did with Mother's Day, Father's Day, and Bachelor's Day.

[Simple Minded]

I'm pretty sure the phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" predates the birth of either of us.

SM,

"Nothing can possibly be conceived in the world, or even out of it, which can be called good, without qualification, except a good will."

Immanuel Kant.

Alex.

also from a bathroom wall:

God is dead! - Kant

Kant is dead! - God

[Simple Minded]

National Sex Day? I bet it would be a Sunday in the US so everybody would be home anyway.

That's what they did with Mother's Day, Father's Day, and Bachelor's Day.

Great another right wing extremist bashing the non-straights. Are you really trying to save the world, or just having fun?

But if it saves the demographic Ponzi schemes from collapse, we can claim were doing it with the best of intentions.

How bout some mottos?

"Sex it's not just for recreation!"

or

"SEX!!! Do it for the children!"

or

"Homophobes like sex too!"