Not again

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Not again

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:08 am

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Inflated applications can mean that some of the most vulnerable borrowers are saddled with auto loans they can never afford to repay


Government authorities are now taking aim at a new generation of liar loans.
Only this time it is subprime auto loans.


..


At their center, the people said, the investigations are examining whether dealerships are inflating borrowers’ income or falsifying employment information on loan applications to ensure that anyone, no matter what their credit quality, can buy a car.

Some of the same dynamics — the seemingly insatiable demand for loans as the market heats up and the dwindling pool of qualified borrowers — that helped precipitate the 2008 mortgage crisis are now playing out, albeit on a smaller scale, in the auto loan market. Under pressure to generate more and more loans, salesman at some used-car dealers are suspected of getting inventive.

It is not known how many subprime auto loans have been made on the basis of falsified applications. Still, such loans can corrode confidence in the booming market for securities that are created from bundled subprime auto loans. If loan applications are falsified, leading borrowers to ultimately fall behind on their bills, that could spell trouble for investors, which include insurance companies and public pension funds.

More immediately, such inflated applications can mean that some of the most vulnerable borrowers are saddled with auto loans they can never afford to repay. The loans, which often come with interest rates that soar to 29 percent, can haunt borrowers long after their cars are repossessed, further tarnishing their credit scores and plunging them into bankruptcy.

Margaret Zollner, 71, does not have a job and receives food stamps, so she was shocked when a car salesman in Queens suggested she co-sign an $18,487 loan so her friend, whom she drove to the dealership, could buy a 2013 Chevrolet. She said she repeatedly explained to the car salesman that she could barely keep up with her own bills. Still, Ms. Zollner said, a salesman falsely listed her annual income as $60,000 on the application, a copy of which was reviewed by The New York Times.

While the car was ultimately repossessed, the nightmare for Ms. Zollner is just beginning. Her credit score has fallen, now hovering around 500, and she is about to declare bankruptcy. Ms. Zollner said she felt ashamed that she signed any documents. “I just can’t believe that one stupid mistake would land me here.”

Ms. Zollner’s case is not currently under investigation. Yet interviews with government authorities and consumer lawyers, along with a review by The Times of lawsuits against dealerships in 15 states, suggest that the problem of inflated applications is widespread. The Times review of loan documents, including some produced in litigation, showed dozens of borrowers who said that dealers falsified their loan applications.

They are people like Matthew Pope, a 24-year-old Army sergeant living in Ohio, who makes roughly $20,000 but whose income was listed as $32,000 on a credit application for a 2008 Dodge Ram. And Nicole Batts, who lives in Hermitage, Tenn., and who learned after she bought a Dodge Avenger that her application included a fake copy of her driver’s license that listed the address of a sales manager at the dealership, not hers.

“I see more fraud now than I have seen in my entire career,” said Ronald Burdge, a consumer lawyer in Dayton, Ohio, who has 48 clients whose credit applications were falsified. “I am just one guy. What is happening in Atlanta or New York?”

Car dealers say their industry, like any large group of businesses, has the occasional rogue employee. But they say dealerships go to great lengths to ensure the accuracy of credit applications.

“There is no place for fraud,” said Steve Jordan, executive vice president of the National Independent Automobile Dealers Association. Still, he noted, “There is a responsibility on behalf of the consumer who signs off on the terms and drives off in the car.”



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Re: Not again

Postby Mr. Perfect » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:47 pm

This was the goal from the beginning HP, obama, everything he did was to destroy US economy, it all working good.

Regulation.
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Re: Not again

Postby Zack Morris » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:24 am

It was only a few months ago that Mr. P was championing auto loans as impervious to a credit crisis because of the lack of government subsidization (never mind that this only played a minor role in the mortgage crisis).
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Re: Not again

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:26 am

Why aren't the Democrat regulators from a Democrat President on this Zack Morris. Please answer this question. The answer was supposed to be regulation. Where is it?
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Re: Not again

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:57 pm

.

Don't bother Zack Morris & Mr. Perfect .. Mortgage/financing/loan sector riddled with corruption, problem "systemic", same sh*t under Dems & Reps .. all that sector runs on "kickbacks" and fraud, part of the system, as "Billy the Kid" used to say, that's where the money is .. crooks not in inventing a new drug for cancer or developing a new chip, they in "Mortgage/financing/loan"

So, relax Zack Morris & Mr. Perfect, all this part of the system.

and

Zack Morris & Mr. Perfect

Looks to me this could be political

Meaning, politicians wanted home ownership to go up, politicians want more car sold (unemployment to come down) .. so .. they send a wink to lower the qualification to buy a house or car .. in final analysis this better than send unemployment checks .. in both cases, house and cars, in might be intentional


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Re: Not again

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:37 pm

The lenders are having remote kill switches installed to cut down on deadbeats. In housing, the use of MERS and securitization ended up separating the title from the debt so only a corrupt judge could enforce foreclosure. The car dealers don't have that problem. http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/09/24/miss-a-payment-good-luck-moving-that-car/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
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Re: Not again

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat May 30, 2015 9:26 am

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What a disaster, what a disaster


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Home Prices Up 37% Since The Housing Crash—–Something Smells Fishy

It’s always interesting to see a long term chart that reflects your real life experiences. I bought my first home in 1990. It was a small townhouse and I paid $100k, put 10% down, and obtained a 9.875% mortgage. I was thrilled to get under 10%. Those were different times, when you bought a home as a place to live. We had our first kid in 1993 and started looking for a single family home. We stopped because our townhouse had declined in value to $85k, so I couldn’t afford to sell. In 1995 I convinced my employer to rent my townhouse, as they were already renting multiple townhouses for all the foreigners doing short term assignments in the U.S. We bought a single family home in 1995 with the sole purpose of having a decent place to raise a family that was within 20 minutes of my job.

Considering home prices on an inflation adjusted basis were lower than they were in 1980, I was certainly not looking at it as some sort of investment vehicle. But, as you can see from the chart, nationally prices soared by about 55% between 1995 and 2005. My home supposedly doubled in value over 10 years. I was ecstatic when I was eventually able to sell my townhouse in 2004 for $134k. I felt so smart, until I saw a notice in the paper one year later showing my old townhouse had been sold again for $176k. Who knew there were so many greater fools.

This was utterly ridiculous, as home prices over the last 100 years have gone up at the rate of inflation. Robert Shiller and a few other rational thinking people called it a bubble. They were scorned and ridiculed by the whores at the NAR and the bimbo cheerleaders on CNBC. Something smelled rotten in the state of housing. We now know who was responsible. Greenspan and Bernanke were at least 75% responsible for the housing bubble and its eventual implosion, which essentially destroyed our economic system. They purposely kept interest rates at obscenely low levels, encouraging every Tom, Dick and Julio to buy a home with a negative amortization, no doc, nothing down, adjustable rate mortgage, so they could live the American dream of being in debt up to their eyeballs.

Greenspan and Bernanke were also responsible for regulating the Wall Street banks. They allowed them to leverage themselves 30 to 1. They allowed them to create fraudulent high risk mortgage products. They looked the other way as Wall Street sliced and diced these guaranteed to default mortgages into AAA rated derivatives that were then spread throughout the global financial system like ticking time bombs. As home prices rose three standard deviations above the long term average, these Ivy League educated geniuses cheered it all on. Bernanke saw no bubble, just as it was bursting. He saw no mal-investment or systematic risk from this orgy of greed and fraud. And then it all blew up in our faces, while the perpetrators walked away unscathed to pillage and rape once more.


And now we come to present day and something really smells fishy again. Home prices crashed by 40% between 2005 and 2012, putting prices back to 1978 on an inflation adjusted basis. All of the bubble gains were wiped out in the blink of an eye. Bernanke and his Wall Street owners had a real problem with this development. Wall Street banks had/have billions in toxic mortgages on their books and only accounting fraud by not having to mark them to market has kept these banks from having to declare bankruptcy. Bernanke, Geithner, and the Wall Street banks hatched their master plan to save themselves at the expense of young people in 2011/2012.

We know for a fact that real median household income is still 7% below 2007 levels and sits at the same level as 1989. We know for a fact that wages have been stagnant since 2007. We know for a fact GDP has barely broken 2% since 2009. We know for a fact the price of healthcare, food, energy, tuition, rent, and a myriad of other daily living expenses are dramatically higher since 2009. We know mortgage originations are at 1997 levels. We know housing starts are 60% below the 2005 highs and at levels seen during the 1991 and 1981 recessions. Existing home sales are 30% below the 2005 high, only up 10% from 2012 levels, and sitting at levels reached in 1999 before the boom.

A critical thinking person might wonder how median single family home prices could possibly skyrocket by 37% in the last three years when household incomes are falling, living expenses rising, and the number of houses being sold are at recessionary levels. The stinking rotting fish again sits in the hallways of the Eccles Building in Washington D.C. Janet “Yellowfish” Yellen has inherited the bubble blowing machine from Ben “Blowfish” Bernanke and has continued to inflate a new housing bubble, because one housing bubble just isn’t enough.

There is nothing free market about the 37% increase in home prices. It has absolutely nothing to do with supply and demand. It has nothing to do with normal families looking for a home. It has everything to do with the Federal Reserve’s 0% interest rates, the $3.5 trillion of QE injected into the economic gambling system, Wall Street banks withholding foreclosures from the market, hedge funds buying up tens of thousands of foreclosed homes and renting them out to the former middle class, Fannie and Freddie guaranteeing 70% of all sales, the government encouraging 3.5% subprime loans again, Chinese and Russian billionaires parking their ill gotten wealth in US real estate, and flippers reappearing in the same old places (Las Vegas, Phoenix, Florida, California).

The Federal Reserve created the last housing bubble and they’ve created the new housing bubble, along with stock and bond bubbles, with their easy money policies designed to enrich their Wall Street owners and the parasites who feed off the financial industry. Their entire plan smells to high heaven. They have thrown young people and most of the middle class overboard, while the bankers, billionaires, politicians, and connected cronies party like it was 2005 on their $250 million yachts.

Now what ?

The Fed says they are going to raise rates. The QE spigot has been turned off. The hedge funds are selling their buy and rent hovel investments, cash buyers are dwindling, the flippers who appeared in 2005 are back, Boomers are looking to sell and downsize, young people are already in debt up to their eyeballs thanks to the government doling out student loans like candy, the number of full-time good paying jobs continue to dwindle, and the rigged 37% price increase has priced millions of people out of the market.

The good news is the Wall Street banks have inflated their balance sheets and celebrated by giving themselves $20 billion in bonuses for a job well done. If mortgage rates rise to 4% or God forbid 5%, the entire housing complex would implode faster than a blowfish out of water. If you’ve bought in the last two years you will be underwater sleeping with the fishes like Luca Brasi in the not too distant future.

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Housing the biggest "ponzi sceam" of our time .. trick is to find a bigget IDI*T who pays a higher price of what you paid

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Re: Not again

Postby Endovelico » Sat May 30, 2015 10:01 am

The answer is still the same as it was a couple of years ago: cancel all debt and nationalize all banks. From then on lend only to those who can pay. And make trade balance mandatory for all countries through an international system of import certificates (re. Warren Buffett).
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Re: Not again

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat May 30, 2015 10:43 am

Endovelico wrote:The answer is still the same as it was a couple of years ago: cancel all debt and nationalize all banks. From then on lend only to those who can pay. And make trade balance mandatory for all countries through an international system of import certificates (re. Warren Buffett).



that might be the plan :lol:


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Re: Not again

Postby noddy » Sat May 30, 2015 10:59 am

housing in the anglosphere is a joke, an expensive nightmare of a joke.

nothing shows civilisation decline like throwing all the money at making houses more expensive, its my favourite doomer porn topic.
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Re: Not again

Postby Simple Minded » Sat May 30, 2015 2:24 pm

noddy wrote:housing in the anglosphere is a joke, an expensive nightmare of a joke.

nothing shows civilisation decline like throwing all the money at making houses more expensive, its my favourite doomer porn topic.


Most people thought my wife and I were nuts when we bought a house that cost less than our annual gross pay. It was about 1/3 of the average US house price at the time. I can't say we were genius, merely responsible.

Thankfully, we both had old fashioned parents who lived thru the depression and WWII, and were at the lower end of the middle class income range for most of their adult lives.

Not sure what it was like where you live, but in much of the US, post 1990, many people went flat out bat-shite crazy in terms of housing expectations...... and oddly enough, sub-prime financing was considered a workable solution for all the financially innumerate types.

The desire for free lunches & square circles is only superseded by the desire for scapegoats (banksters, Zionists, oligarchs, 1%ers......). Amazing how few people saw the inevitable result coming.

Willful ignorance en masse...... definitely a sign of civilizational decline.
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Re: Not again

Postby noddy » Sun May 31, 2015 2:30 am

Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote:housing in the anglosphere is a joke, an expensive nightmare of a joke.

nothing shows civilisation decline like throwing all the money at making houses more expensive, its my favourite doomer porn topic.


Most people thought my wife and I were nuts when we bought a house that cost less than our annual gross pay. It was about 1/3 of the average US house price at the time. I can't say we were genius, merely responsible.

Thankfully, we both had old fashioned parents who lived thru the depression and WWII, and were at the lower end of the middle class income range for most of their adult lives.

Not sure what it was like where you live, but in much of the US, post 1990, many people went flat out bat-shite crazy in terms of housing expectations...... and oddly enough, sub-prime financing was considered a workable solution for all the financially innumerate types.


our housing boom has been monsterous, we will probably end up like spain or ireland, financially wiped out and ill be surrounded by folks blaming the banks and the jews :/

consequently i have spent half as much as anyone else on a decrepit sh*tbox but twice as much as i wanted too.

Simple Minded wrote:The desire for free lunches & square circles is only superseded by the desire for scapegoats (banksters, Zionists, oligarchs, 1%ers......). Amazing how few people saw the inevitable result coming.

Willful ignorance en masse...... definitely a sign of civilizational decline.


yep, people who blame the rocks at the bottom of the cliff instead of their choice to jump , are difficult to rationalise with.
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Re: Not again

Postby Typhoon » Sun May 31, 2015 8:38 am

Local governments and nongovernmental organizations are trying to help homeowners find people who can occupy or purchase their unused dwellings.
They have created an “akiya” (vacant home) website that in particular looks to connect urbanites seeking to live in rural areas with owners of vacant dwellings in the countryside.


A friend of mine was recently talking about retiring. He likes Vietnam.

I said that while Vietnam is probably pleasant, why not stay at home in Japan and retire to the countryside as getting old in another country can have its complications.

I pointed out that he can purchase a good place in the countryside as cheaply as in Vietnam, and possibly even for less, especially if he does it at an auction.
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Re: Not again

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sun May 31, 2015 9:50 am

Typhoon wrote:.

Local governments and nongovernmental organizations are trying to help homeowners find people who can occupy or purchase their unused dwellings.
They have created an “akiya” (vacant home) website that in particular looks to connect urbanites seeking to live in rural areas with owners of vacant dwellings in the countryside.


A friend of mine was recently talking about retiring. He likes Vietnam.

I said that while Vietnam is probably pleasant, why not stay at home in Japan and retire to the countryside as getting old in another country can have its complications.

I pointed out that he can purchase a good place in the countryside as cheaply as in Vietnam, and possibly even for less, especially if he does it at an auction.

.



For "old people", key in retirement is, familiar territory, close to past memories in life, relatives, friends, children and grand children, community, social gathering and things of that sort

I never understood how one can retire to a totally foreign environment culture and society.

As important as the physical needs are, for older people mental "wellNess" key for happiness in life

In that sense, if Japan country side "nearly as affordable" as Vietnam, one should stay home

In Vancouver, B.C, Canada, a few yrs ago, there were big projects to built retirement resorts for mass Japanese retirees, golf course etc etc .. don't know why nothing happened .. Vancouver would be ideal for Japanese retirees, although now Vancouver more expensive than NY, probably Vancouver the most expensive city in North America

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Re: Not again

Postby noddy » Sun May 31, 2015 11:57 am

for some retirees they have kept things stable and boring in the same house their entire lives for their family and they quite enjoy throwing all that out the window and having a completely different thing for the last years of their life.

air travel is so cheap now they can easily catch up with family when they want.

rural australia is picking up some of these people as per colonel sun's japanese comment however the need for health care does keep most of the cheap locations off the radar, this is something south east asia does better.
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Re: Not again

Postby Simple Minded » Sun May 31, 2015 8:49 pm

noddy wrote:
yep, people who blame the rocks at the bottom of the cliff instead of their choice to jump , are difficult to rationalise with.


that is extremely well put.

I have yet to encounter a single "victim" who can state the date and time when one of the banksters/corporatists/college professors/real estate agents/car salesmen/credit card companies/etc. held a gun to their heads and forced them to borrow money they did not want to borrow. I think it is what they feel compelled to tell their peer group. Otherwise they can't eat at the same lunch table as the hipsters.

Manias are pretty easy to recognize (even in real time) if you are a bit older or somewhat of a oddball going in. Peer pressure is amazingly powerful, especially for those who have a strong tendency to be admired by the herd. I think it is largely a genetic trait.

My wife & I weren't geniuses, we just had different peer pressures & expectations than those who consider themselves to be the "victims" of "society." We thought that in the long run a positive net worth might be more fun than being chic.

The good news is when most of the local real estate is being bought by foreigners, you are close to the end of the mania.
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Re: Not again

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:30 am

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Re: Not again

Postby noddy » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:47 am

Simple Minded wrote:The good news is when most of the local real estate is being bought by foreigners, you are close to the end of the mania.


maybe, not many countries have 30-40% of the population as immigrants like us, provided the world keeps giving us middle class with fat wallets we can prop up the housing boom.

i hope it all crashes and burns, i cant say so - we might end up turning the locals into poor ghettos, its not the first time its happened and so far corruption money from places like china and iran keeps on coming.
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Re: Not again

Postby Typhoon » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:37 pm

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Typhoon wrote:.

Local governments and nongovernmental organizations are trying to help homeowners find people who can occupy or purchase their unused dwellings.
They have created an “akiya” (vacant home) website that in particular looks to connect urbanites seeking to live in rural areas with owners of vacant dwellings in the countryside.


A friend of mine was recently talking about retiring. He likes Vietnam.

I said that while Vietnam is probably pleasant, why not stay at home in Japan and retire to the countryside as getting old in another country can have its complications.

I pointed out that he can purchase a good place in the countryside as cheaply as in Vietnam, and possibly even for less, especially if he does it at an auction.

.


. . .

In Vancouver, B.C, Canada, a few yrs ago, there were big projects to built retirement resorts for mass Japanese retirees, golf course etc etc .. don't know why nothing happened .. Vancouver would be ideal for Japanese retirees, although now Vancouver more expensive than NY, probably Vancouver the most expensive city in North America

.


Sounds like projects during the era of the J-Bubble Economy. Many such overseas projects went bust after the bubble popped.

Vancouver would have been my friend's first choice. However, it has become far too expensive.

Toronto and Down Under, Sydney, Melbourne, the Gold Coast, and Perth are the same.
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Re: Not again

Postby Simple Minded » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:31 am

noddy wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:The good news is when most of the local real estate is being bought by foreigners, you are close to the end of the mania.


maybe, not many countries have 30-40% of the population as immigrants like us, provided the world keeps giving us middle class with fat wallets we can prop up the housing boom.

i hope it all crashes and burns, i cant say so - we might end up turning the locals into poor ghettos, its not the first time its happened and so far corruption money from places like china and iran keeps on coming.


You guys might want to consider doing some more current Mad Max movies to keep the foreigners out and property prices more reasonable......
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Re: Not again

Postby noddy » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:04 pm

chase johhny foreigner through the outback with flamethrowers ?

sounds like a good idea, might get a few locals in the mix aswell.
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Re: Not again

Postby Simple Minded » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:01 pm

noddy wrote:chase johhny foreigner through the outback with flamethrowers ?

sounds like a good idea, might get a few locals in the mix aswell.


Works for us in keepin property prices low in Appalachia/SimpleMindedstan. ;)

It's never toooooo early to:
a. Practice your survival tactics for the end of the world as we know it.
2. Convince the outsiders that "your people" are a bunch of inbred, redneck, hating, low-brow, racist, misanthropes.
so they feel safer paying 12 times the taxes and rents back in "civilization" but only after they take all the guns away from each other. ;) :D

The only ting left to fear now is some altruistic (autistics?) well-intentioned govt apparatchik throwing money at us in an attempt to save us from ourselves.

The other thing you might want to try is appointing Endo as your Minister of Cultural Outreach, Minister of Tourism, or Minister of Real Estate Development........
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Re: Not again

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:31 pm

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Too Big For Exit, Investors in La-La Land


Scary

Guess who doin all this :lol: :lol:

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