Would you like lies with your fries

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Would you like lies with your fries

Postby noddy » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:32 am

the broken record from the chattering classes is edumacation and STEM jobs, that the future is for the educated kids in the tech industries.

it is however lies, tech companies are relatively few and very fussy, they take only the cream of the crop and all those average kids are not wanted.

https://theconversation.com/young-educa ... 20baristas

There is a looming fear among young people in the Australian labour market that they will not find jobs commensurate with their educational levels because they are “overqualified”.

The economics suggests these apprehensions are well-founded, with 26% of young graduates in Australia being “underutilised” in 2013.

Policymakers cannot take this situation lightly, for at its worst, it speaks to “intergenerational inequity” – a breaking of the social contract between two generations. It is worrying for students, parents, and broader stakeholders in society in equal measure.

A sizeable educational investment, both in terms of money and time, is finding unfulfilled returns in mundane work that requires none of the sunk investment in intellectual capital, an idea disparagingly called “the era of the overeducated barista”.


i think the stats in this article are worse than indicated - now that australia and canada are coming off the resource boom the amount of people propped up by government is going to be exposed.

in australia most STEM jobs are education jobs.

it took me years to break into tech development in this country, it was 90% networking and building connections with lots of self sacrificing slavery, ive watched hundreds and hundreds of graduate kids get chewed up and spat out by the poor ratio of jobs to applicants, then they get all bitter and anti establishment

one of the things thats not discussed much is that many of the terrorists are highly educated and bitter at all the costs of being educated without getting a comfy middle class job at the end of it.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/bruce- ... rists-4080

it always hurts to listen to the garbage that comes out of the chattering classes mouths, it ruins the lives of these kids and gets their expectations out of whack.

we need to either start a mass slaughter or deal with the new normal of mass unemployment, the governments cant keep creating jobs based off tax money that doesnt exist, thats the why they are all wallowing in debt.
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Re: would you like lies with your fries

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:13 am

I don't know which tack you want to take but what never ceases to amaze me is that people listen to anything a journalist will say about anything.

To even hope to be proficient on any of these kinds of topics you need a 4 year degree and at least 4 years of experience before you can even comment intelligently on anything. And of course journalists have none of that.

I remember during the Ebola thing I brought that up and was amazed at how many people said they were fine with not getting expert information from the press, but preferred the musings of former tv studio interns.
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Re: would you like lies with your fries

Postby noddy » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:18 am

the tack i take is that this new tech economy, service economy bullshit that the government and press have been pushing since our industrial economies fell apart is absolute nonsense.

10-20% of the kids are capable of being winners in the tech economy, tops, and maybe that many again can cut their hair, sell the clothes and make them coffees.

we cant keep making up the difference in government payments and made up jobs funded with taxes/public debt.
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Re: would you like lies with your fries

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:24 am

Got it. Yeah, those other people are dumb@$$es as well. As I've been saying since 2008-2009, learn how to grow food and make one of those tiny portable houses.
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Re: Would you like lies with your fries

Postby Parodite » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:02 pm

In principle not much changes with more machines doing the work and less jobs available. Generated wealth is not only distributed via incomes, but also by what a culture considers a just and desirable level of supporting the non- or less productive like elderly, children, sick, unemployed.
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Re: Would you like lies with your fries

Postby noddy » Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:23 am

sure, if we shot all the humans and replaced them with angels, or better yet, solar powered robotic angels with puritan programming. :?

We dont have a good track record for looking after the rest of the people. It does make you wonder what the next civil war looks like
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Re: Would you like lies with your fries

Postby Parodite » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:38 am

noddy wrote:sure, if we shot all the humans and replaced them with angels, or better yet, solar powered robotic angels with puritan programming. :?

We dont have a good track record for looking after the rest of the people. It does make you wonder what the next civil war looks like


I would say it's an age old theme, a struggle and controversy how the haves and have-less-nots relate. Ranges from civil wars, revolutions to pretty decent solutions in more recent times. The issue will never disappear tho.
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Re: would you like lies with your fries

Postby Zack Morris » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:08 pm

Mr. Perfect wrote:I don't know which tack you want to take but what never ceases to amaze me is that people listen to anything a journalist will say about anything.

To even hope to be proficient on any of these kinds of topics you need a 4 year degree and at least 4 years of experience before you can even comment intelligently on anything. And of course journalists have none of that.

I remember during the Ebola thing I brought that up and was amazed at how many people said they were fine with not getting expert information from the press, but preferred the musings of former tv studio interns.


I also remember the Ebola thing and how afraid ignorant Republicans were while the rest of us went about our business here in New York, shoulder-to-shoulder with Ebola carriers in the subway, confident that reason and common sense would be enough to protect us (and they were!) The Ebola "crisis" played out exactly as scientists predicted it would. Long before, when I was in college, I recall arguing with a friend who had read the 'Hot Zone' about the danger of an Ebola outbreak in the US. I reasoned, correctly, that Ebola is not as dangerous as most people believe and that it would be trivially managed. Years later, turns out I was right.

I couldn't imagine going through life as a paranoid survivalist. What a dark and fruitless existence.
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Re: Would you like lies with your fries

Postby Zack Morris » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:21 pm

noddy wrote:the broken record from the chattering classes is edumacation and STEM jobs, that the future is for the educated kids in the tech industries.

it is however lies, tech companies are relatively few and very fussy, they take only the cream of the crop and all those average kids are not wanted.


There are naturally fewer tech jobs available than middle class occupations of yester-year, but they pay vastly better. Six figures is standard straight out of school. Two, three, four decades ago, do you think upper middle class white collar jobs were any easier to get? I'm skeptical given the fact that those were the times during which the highly selective, elite meritocracy (Harvard, Stanford, MIT) was established.

The present employment situation -- too many overqualified people everywhere -- has more to do with the fact that there simply isn't any need for everyone to be employed in the high-tech utopia we've been racing toward. I don't believe in all that Singularity nonsense but it's very clear that going forward, most people will be redundant. Human demand is more limited than the technology that now supplies it, especially as cultural tastes converge. Take a step back and look at the art world, for example. We all listen to the same music now, which means fewer artists can supply more people.

it took me years to break into tech development in this country, it was 90% networking and building connections with lots of self sacrificing slavery, ive watched hundreds and hundreds of graduate kids get chewed up and spat out by the poor ratio of jobs to applicants, then they get all bitter and anti establishment


That's interesting. Networking is still supremely important in most US industries but I would say technology is something of an exception. That's because unlike other fields, tech folks (engineers, programmers, quants, scientists) have testable and verifiable skills. Hard to bullshit into these positions. Just compare and contrast the interview process for a senior technologist vs. a senior business development person. A $400K/year technologist is still going to get grilled on the same basic stuff that a fresh college grad will (and then some). A senior sales, biz dev, investment banking, equity research, media strategist, or whatever role is going to have a friendly chat.

we need to either start a mass slaughter or deal with the new normal of mass unemployment, the governments cant keep creating jobs based off tax money that doesnt exist, thats the why they are all wallowing in debt.


They're going to have to start handing out a guaranteed annual income.
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Re: would you like lies with your fries

Postby Mr. Perfect » Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:54 am

Zack Morris wrote:I also remember the Ebola thing and how afraid ignorant Republicans were while the rest of us went about our business here in New York, shoulder-to-shoulder with Ebola carriers in the subway, confident that reason and common sense would be enough to protect us (and they were!)

What everyone else remembers is a media created hysteria where they performed poorly but not as poorly as the obama administration. Thankfully, you guys suffered at the ballot box for your failures.

The Ebola "crisis" played out exactly as scientists predicted it would. Long before, when I was in college, I recall arguing with a friend who had read the 'Hot Zone' about the danger of an Ebola outbreak in the US. I reasoned, correctly, that Ebola is not as dangerous as most people believe and that it would be trivially managed. Years later, turns out I was right.

I couldn't imagine going through life as a paranoid survivalist. What a dark and fruitless existence.

Good stuff. You are the party of climataphobia, gunphobia, theophobia, robophobia, corpophobia, poylgaphobia and on and on and on. You own dark and paranoid. We can'[t even afford to rent it from you.
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Re: Would you like lies with your fries

Postby noddy » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:21 am

Zack Morris wrote:
That's interesting. Networking is still supremely important in most US industries but I would say technology is something of an exception. That's because unlike other fields, tech folks (engineers, programmers, quants, scientists) have testable and verifiable skills. Hard to bullshit into these positions. Just compare and contrast the interview process for a senior technologist vs. a senior business development person. A $400K/year technologist is still going to get grilled on the same basic stuff that a fresh college grad will (and then some). A senior sales, biz dev, investment banking, equity research, media strategist, or whatever role is going to have a friendly chat.
.


i said nothing about bullshitting into positions, i have no idea which orifice that came from, i meant that with the glut in applicants it takes a while to build up enough good resumes, character references and contacts to get yourself to the front of the pile.

part of the problem of too many graduates, not enough work, which is the OT.

these graduates have large debts from attending university, and they have a headful of dissapointment at a system that got them into that position because they where stupid enough to trust their educators.

hopefully they will continue to kill themselves with drug OD's as per the dead whitey thread, god forbid they stopped smoking pot and the anger got out of hand.
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Re: Would you like lies with your fries

Postby Apollonius » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:32 pm

Zack Morris wrote:Take a step back and look at the art world, for example. We all listen to the same music now, which means fewer artists can supply more people.






People all listen to the same music? I don't believe you.




They're going to have to start handing out a guaranteed annual income.





I've posted about this before, wondering if this is where we are headed, except that there are still so many jobs that no one will do unless enticed with money. In the high tech world you might not run into as many people as I do who perform these tasks. These jobs are mostly work that no one really wants to do. Maybe robotization will solve this, but until it does, people won't do this work without being rewarded somehow, and it seems to me that a guaranteed income just reduces the pool of people who feel that they need to do unpleasant, repetitive, boring, or dangerous work to survive and increases the number of people who feel that they have no real need to do anything.




Mr. Perfect, noddy: Any thoughts?
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Re: Would you like lies with your fries

Postby Parodite » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:27 pm

I'm in total fav of a guaranteed annual income for all.
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Re: Would you like lies with your fries

Postby Zack Morris » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:59 pm

Apollonius wrote:People all listen to the same music? I don't believe you.


Sure they do. Popular music has experienced a remarkable degree of convergence globally. Just because alternatives exist does not mean they are infinitely abundant. They are often culture-specific -- few Americans listen to Indian music of any sort, for example.

I've posted about this before, wondering if this is where we are headed, except that there are still so many jobs that no one will do unless enticed with money. In the high tech world you might not run into as many people as I do who perform these tasks. These jobs are mostly work that no one really wants to do. Maybe robotization will solve this, but until it does, people won't do this work without being rewarded somehow, and it seems to me that a guaranteed income just reduces the pool of people who feel that they need to do unpleasant, repetitive, boring, or dangerous work to survive and increases the number of people who feel that they have no real need to do anything.


I think there are a lot of unsolved practical problems with implementing a GAI but I don't see how this one would not be solved by market dynamics. Unless you are trying to point out that labor supply would become constrained, raising the price of these services to levels that erode the purchasing power of people relying on a GAI?

If there are still jobs that need to be done, they'll be done at a fair price. Anything that benefits from automation will be automated. I wouldn't be surprised if (fast food and grocery) cashiers and bank tellers disappeared within 10 years, for example, while high-end waitstaff, gardeners, and plumbers will still exist in roughly the same numbers.
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Re: Would you like lies with your fries

Postby noddy » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:04 am

Apollonius wrote:
I've posted about this before, wondering if this is where we are headed, except that there are still so many jobs that no one will do unless enticed with money. In the high tech world you might not run into as many people as I do who perform these tasks. These jobs are mostly work that no one really wants to do. Maybe robotization will solve this, but until it does, people won't do this work without being rewarded somehow, and it seems to me that a guaranteed income just reduces the pool of people who feel that they need to do unpleasant, repetitive, boring, or dangerous work to survive and increases the number of people who feel that they have no real need to do anything.


the things against it are that plus the inflationary effect it will have on baseline costs of living such as housing and groceries.

the things for it are that currently all the government stimulus goes to rich fat men and not the general population and most of the tax money goes to government workers and not the general population, so the question is why some people are allowed the moral hazard of money for nothing but not others :)

we use desperate third worlders for the dangerous and boring work, as we run out of those the true cost of doing it will be exposed and the wages or automation will change to suit.

i cant really say if the pros are stronger than the cons, all i can say is that with the vast amounts of moral hazard being thrown around from the vast amounts of tax money im comfy with the little guys getting a taste of it.

the status quo needs to change so even if the consequences are worst case then it might still be a step in the right direction because it means we are using the socialist system for actual socialism and not creating a new priest class out of government workers and multinational industrialists who feel entitled to tax money as a god given right while the rest of us live in ghettos.
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