Capitalism and Its Discontents

Now, what news on the Rialto?

Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby noddy » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:59 pm

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

Oil Gas, water, air, sun, copper, gold, zinc etc etc .. all .. are "natural resources" given by G_D to inhabitants of this planet .. they do not belong to people next, or, on top of them.

Meaning

Natural resources "rights", similar to "mineral rights", should be "administered" by UNITED NATIONS in "fiduciary capacity" on behalf of earth present and future population.

In Canada, all natural resources, mineral rights, belong to the CROWN (meaning government = Canadian population). Anybody wanting to extract Oil or Gas or Gold or copper or water resources .. must get a licence from Canadian government and pay ROYALTY (sharing of the profit)

Same principle should apply worldwide

This has ZERO to do with socialism or communism or capitalism .. heart of capitalism is ownership of your making and not what G_D put under your ass.

.


gibberish.

its mindbogglingly expensive and complicated to find, extract, process and then transport the resources and anyone that doesnt understand that doesnt understand the status quo - if it was easy, then it would be happening already.

their are reasons expensive countries like australia and canada are dominant in the resource industry, the above skills and the political infrastructure to reliably deliver are crucial.

also.

heart of capitalism is ownership of your making and not what G_D put under your ass.


you cant make something without resources so this means nothing, first step of wanting to make something is getting the resources together.

nearly every country that wants to buy something can under the current regime, thats why asia (china, south korea, japan etc) is happy with it and plays along.

south america and africa are basket cases of corruption and incompetence, they cant reliably find or deliver so the world hasnt used their resources much.
.
russia and the middle east, its politics, and the UN couldnt change jack lavender, the UN is the politics already
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Simple Minded » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:01 pm

noddy wrote:
gibberish.

its mindbogglingly expensive and complicated to find, extract, process and then transport the resources and anyone that doesnt understand that doesnt understand the status quo - if it was easy, then it would be happening already.

their are reasons expensive countries like australia and canada are dominant in the resource industry, the above skills and the political infrastructure to reliably deliver are crucial.


True enough. It is mindboggling to watch a documentary on mining where the density of gold ore in the Earth is only a few grams/ton, and then calculate that the dump truck carrying 200 tons of material to be processed is only carrying an ounce of gold.

The ignorant have no concept of the hundred of thousand+ hours of engineering, science, chemistry, and development that went into making even the tires on that truck, yet alone all the support equipment, organization, and processes.

And this will all happen due to the good intentions of those distant, insulated people who are completely ignorant of the science required or details involved? All for the common good? Good luck with that. University stoners indeed.

Doesn't everyone involved eat and want a paycheck? And it all gets to market at such an incredibly low cost, that us first worlders throw away stuff that others on Earth would work a week to obtain.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:09 pm

noddy wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

Oil Gas, water, air, sun, copper, gold, zinc etc etc .. all .. are "natural resources" given by G_D to inhabitants of this planet .. they do not belong to people next, or, on top of them.

Meaning

Natural resources "rights", similar to "mineral rights", should be "administered" by UNITED NATIONS in "fiduciary capacity" on behalf of earth present and future population.

In Canada, all natural resources, mineral rights, belong to the CROWN (meaning government = Canadian population). Anybody wanting to extract Oil or Gas or Gold or copper or water resources .. must get a licence from Canadian government and pay ROYALTY (sharing of the profit)

Same principle should apply worldwide

This has ZERO to do with socialism or communism or capitalism .. heart of capitalism is ownership of your making and not what G_D put under your ass.

.


gibberish.

its mindbogglingly expensive and complicated to find, extract, process and then transport the resources and anyone that doesnt understand that doesnt understand the status quo - if it was easy, then it would be happening already.

their are reasons expensive countries like australia and canada are dominant in the resource industry, the above skills and the political infrastructure to reliably deliver are crucial.

also.

heart of capitalism is ownership of your making and not what G_D put under your ass.


you cant make something without resources so this means nothing, first step of wanting to make something is getting the resources together.

nearly every country that wants to buy something can under the current regime, thats why asia (china, south korea, japan etc) is happy with it and plays along.

south america and africa are basket cases of corruption and incompetence, they cant reliably find or deliver so the world hasnt used their resources much.
.
russia and the middle east, its politics, and the UN couldnt change jack lavender, the UN is the politics already



I think you misunderstood

Ownership of the resources, instead being Australian or Saudi or Canadian or Indonesia & Brazil (Iron Ore), would be United Nation (on behalf all inhabitant of planet earth)

The rest, find, extract, process and then transport the resources, would be same as right now.

Instead of Saudi Arabia, UN would sign with Shell or Esso

In fact, this very easy and fast to realize and execute.

In US, a lot of real estate owners (say Texas farmer) do not own the "mineral rights" .. meaning oil under their property owned by somebody else .. so, these farmers, have arrangement with companies who drill on their land

Same would be, Saudi Arabia (same as Texas farmer) does not own the Oil and Gas under Saudi Arabia, but UN would own it.

UN would sign a contract with Shell to go and drill in Saudi Arabia .. Saudi Arabia same as Texas farmer must let it happen (with set rules and compensation as the Texas farmer gets).

So, the refineries must buy the Oil either from UN or from drilling companies (Shell) .. otherwise it is assumed as "stollen" oil.

Easy to implement

The added benefit of this would be .. immense benefit .. that the price of that commodity, Oil, Gas, copper, Iron Oil, Zinc, copper etc .. will only be fixed by UN .. one nation can not boycott (like Arabs did 1973) and drive oil price up or manipulate politically commodity prices.

.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Simple Minded » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:54 am

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
I think you misunderstood

Ownership of the resources, instead being Australian or Saudi or Canadian or Indonesia & Brazil (Iron Ore), would be United Nation (on behalf all inhabitant of planet earth)

The rest, find, extract, process and then transport the resources, would be same as right now.

Instead of Saudi Arabia, UN would sign with Shell or Esso

In fact, this very easy and fast to realize and execute................

Easy to implement............................

The added benefit of this would be .. immense benefit .. that the price of that commodity, Oil, Gas, copper, Iron Oil, Zinc, copper etc .. will only be fixed by UN .. one nation can not boycott (like Arabs did 1973) and drive oil price up or manipulate politically commodity prices.


HP,

This is even easier and faster to implement than you realize.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a left wing friend years ago. She said the US government should give back all the land to the native Americans. I told here she didn't have to wait on the government, that she could do that right now. She didn't understand. So I said all she had to do was to sign over her house and property to a local tribe. She not only thought I was being a wise ass, she thought I was being a stupid wise ass. I wasn't. I was just trying to help. Ungrateful bitch!

So, since this is your good idea, you go first. Sign over all your assets to the UN, and let us know how well they manage them on your behalf.

You might just be the Gandhi of the 21st century!!! keep in touch.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby noddy » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:26 am

i dont understand what would happen.

the UN is the west and the east asia, the current market is driven by the west and the east asia, nothing would be different, nothing would change.

africa, south america and the arabs would still be irrelevant to the outcomes until they got their lavender together well enough to become relevant, in which case, they could join the market anyway.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby YMix » Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:18 am

Switzerland to vote on banning banks from creating money

Switzerland will hold a referendum to decide whether to ban commercial banks from creating money.

The Swiss federal government confirmed on Thursday that it would hold the plebiscite, after more than 110,000 people signed a petition calling for the central bank to be given sole power to create money in the financial system.

The campaign - led by the Swiss Sovereign Money movement and known as the Vollgeld initiative - is designed to limit financial speculation by requiring private banks to hold 100pc reserves against their deposits.

[...]
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Parodite » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:18 pm

The man who exposed the lie of the war on drugs

Roberto Saviano already lives under armed guard after writing about the Neapolitan mafia. Now he is determined to uncover capitalism’s complicity with the narco-lords of South America

[...]

“Capitalism,” says Saviano, “needs the criminal syndicates and criminal markets… This is the most difficult thing to communicate. People – even people observing organised crime – tend to overlook this, insisting upon a separation between the black market and the legal market. It’s the mentality that leads people in Europe and the USA to think of a mafioso who goes to jail as a mobster, a gangster. But he’s not, he’s a businessman, and his business, the black market, has become the biggest market in the world.”


Grauniad at its best. Find an durian who equates the big business of illegal drugs with capitalism itself and make it look like he has a point.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:29 pm

Confusion of capitalism with free enterprise.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby noddy » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:29 pm

news at 9, socialist works out drugs are sold for lots of money and this causes trade networks to form around them.

next he is going to work out a fine is just a license.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Typhoon » Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:51 am

One point that Al Capone apparently strongly resented was that none of his partners among the "respectable upper class set" in Chicago went down with him.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Parodite » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:16 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Confusion of capitalism with free enterprise.


That, and forgetting that every human system has its do's and dont's expressed in law and that there always will be activity of people that will be considered criminal as a result, plus a system of law enforcement.

Every game has rules. Even criminal games. Try to be the good guy as a member of a drug syndicate and yo dead!
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby YMix » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:01 am

Monkeys express spite toward those who have more

[...]

Capuchin monkeys will yank on a rope to collapse a table that is holding a partner monkey's food. While chimpanzees collapse their partner's table only after direct personal affronts like theft, capuchins punish more often, even in cases where the other monkey merely had more food, according to a study published online in the journal Evolution and Human Behavior.

[...]
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby YMix » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:26 pm

Genetically Engineered Tree Company ArborGen Found Guilty of Abusing Workers: $53.5 Million Awarded to Employees

[...]

The trial showed the 10 employees should have received a combined $11.3 million of equity but instead were coerced into accepting a new financial plan that provided a combined $414,330 of equity.

From the from Summary of Court’s Findings of Fact, [p. 96]: “This court finds that ArborGen’s … employees …were in turn abused by ArborGen, its founders, its board members and its management team. The Defendants orchestrated a cover-up scheme created and executed to switch the Plaintiffs out of the [original financial plan] that the Defendants had determined to be ‘too rich’…”

[...]

In a statement to shareholders, Rubicon CEO Luke Moriarty (a defendant in the lawsuit) said ArborGen plans to sell half a billion of these GE eucalyptus every year for plantations from South Carolina to Texas. ArborGen keeps the locations of their GE trees secret and refuses to provide information about them to the public.

In December, MeadWestvaco, another co-founder of ArborGen, dropped the charges against the protesters than face a jury trial. ArborGen’s world headquarters are situated on MeadWestvaco land.

ArborGen claims their GE trees are safe and will have no environmental impact. But GE eucalyptus trees, for example, are not only prone to be invasive, they are explosively flammable–leading Jim Hightower to call them “living firecrackers.” They have also been likened to “flammable kudzu.” They are not native to this hemisphere and wildlife cannot use them. In Brazil eucalyptus plantations are called “Green Deserts” because nothing can live in them.

[...]
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby YMix » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:11 pm

TV news was abuzz Thursday morning after Variety reported on a presentation by Alan Wurtzel, a president at NBCUniversal, who said that streaming shows weren’t cutting into broadcast television viewership to the degree that much of the press seems to believe. Mr. Wurtzel used numbers that estimated viewership using data gathered by mobile devices that listened to what people were watching and extrapolating viewership across the country.


http://observer.com/2016/01/netflix-hulu-data-symphony-advanced-media/
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:36 am

Typhoon wrote:One point that Al Capone apparently strongly resented was that none of his partners among the "respectable upper class set" in Chicago went down with him.

Sort of like many former business associates of the Clintons.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:37 am

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Confusion of capitalism with free enterprise.

Capitalism is free enterprise.

What people often confuse is capitalists with people who like to make money.

People also confuse capitalism with the market. The market exists whether capitalism exists or not.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:39 am

.

Hi MP, nice 2C u back

.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:41 am

You too HP, family life comes to dominate at times. Good holidays. Non stop family party.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:15 pm

.


Oxfam62
62 People own as much wealth as half the world’s population



MW-ED486_Captur_20160118065703_NS.jpg
MW-ED486_Captur_20160118065703_NS.jpg (24.69 KiB) Viewed 309 times



The wealth of those 62 one-percenters has risen by more than half-a-trillion dollars in the last five years, the report said.

At the same time, the total owned by the poorest half has fallen by a trillion dollars.



When .. last 5 yrs world economy has "shrank", deflation, falling and falling .. how could in the same period the wealth of 1% go up 62% (when all is collapsing) ? ?

Cake did not become bigger, rather shrank

Rather, money flow from the poor to the rich .. from Middle Class Americans to crooks in Wall Street.

Wall Street does not create wealth, Wall Street (money shuffling) sucking money out of Middle Class pockets.

Result is, American middle class is ruined .. white middle class America ruined

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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby YMix » Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:45 pm

Rise of the Robots Will Eliminate More Than 5 Million Jobs

Over five million jobs will be lost by 2020 as a result of developments in genetics, artificial intelligence, robotics and other technological change, according to World Economic Forum research.

About 7 million jobs will be lost and 2 million gained as a result of technological change in 15 major developed and emerging economies, WEF founder Klaus Schwab and managing board member Richard Samans said in "The Future of Jobs." The findings are taken from a survey of 15 economies covering about 1.9 billion workers, or about 65 percent of the world’s total workforce.

[...]
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Mr. Perfect » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:09 am

Robophobia.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby YMix » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:26 pm

Delicious hand-wringing from Breitbart.

Poll: Millennials Pick Socialism Over Capitalism

[...]

The survey, taken at the end of January, found that 43 percent of Americans under 30 had a favorable view of socialism. Less than a third of millennials had a favorable view of capitalism. No other age or ethnic demographic preferred socialism over capitalism.

Seniors, unsurprisingly, had the most favorable view of capitalism. Just 23 percent of Americans older than 65 had a positive view of socialism. Sixty-three percent of seniors, though, had a favorable view of capitalism.


Two groups of people with almost no direct experience of socialism. One likes it, one doesn't.

Seniors, after all, experienced the long-standing intellectual battle between capitalism and socialism played out in real life. They witnessed a post-war economic euphoria grind down into a socialist malaise, only to be reinvigorated by a global embrace of disruptive technology, deregulation, and global trade.


Actually, they witnessed a lot of propaganda, which, in a massively ironic twist, may have made socialism cool for the young. They also witnessed the capitalist revival put an end to any real wage growth and push the middle class off a cliff, but Breitbart is above such facts.

Even if millenials aren’t swayed by the dramatic improvement in worldwide living standards, one would hope they would see the benefits of capitalism in the products and services that inhabit their world.

They live, and thrive, in a consumer-driven, on-demand society. They have immediate access, at their fingertips, to more knowledge, art, music, and communication than the wealthiest oligarch just a few decades ago.

Each and every one of the products and services they use every day was developed by someone chasing profit and market-share. It is a cliche to say that capitalism has powered the technological and scientific innovations that have improved all our lives. Apparently, however, it is a cliche that bears repeating.


This is true. Millennials should at least be made to understand that pure socialism and consumer economy do not mix. On the other hand, Breitbart should at least figure out that Germany and the Scandinavian countries are running on something called market socialism, an unholy combination that doesn't seem to hurt their living standards much. Quite on the contrary.

On a postive note, every other demographic block in America still prefers capitalism over socialism. Well, Democrats, perhaps naturally, are evenly split between the two economic systems. At least Democrats, though, have slightly higher unfavorable ratings of socialism than capitalism.

The danger, of course, is that the demographic in America that does prefer socialism is also the future of the country. Of course, they have the luxury of looking positively on socialism, since any impact on their lives is restricted to dusty history books.


Capitalism, on the other hand, has quite an impact on their lives. Mainly as massive student loans and sh*tty job prospects.

The finding also presents something of an existential dilema for the conservative and libertarian movement. Since the 1980s, the institutional infrastructure of the conservative and libertarian movement has grown exponentially.

Aside from dozens of national think tanks and advocacy organizations devoted to propogating conservative and free market views, there are more than a hundred free-market think tanks in states across the country.

It is safe to say that billions of dollars have been spent over the past two decades promoting and educating the public on the benefits of capitalism and free markets. There are publishing imprints, media companies and new conservative news sites everywhere. Yet, something has gone horribly wrong.


Delicious. :twisted: Free market propaganda has failed to make people believe that stagnating wages are good for them? Incredible!

As the conservative and libertarian infrastructure grows, more and more young people find socialism cool. As churches turn into mega churches, the number of believers shrinks. Oh, my! I wonder what could have gone wrong.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby Parodite » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:14 am

Yes, there are still loads of people who are clueless about capitalism and socialism. Long expired concepts, two religions for the price of one.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby noddy » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:40 am

the government decided all these roles needed university qualifications rather than private aprenticships.
the government demanded this education be user pays
the government created debts to loan sharks to pay for these government decisions.
the government then opened up the borders so overseas kids like indians or chinese could compete for the same jobs.

apparently this is capitalisms fault.

as for kids finding socialism cool, of course they do, they are trained into it hard by our school system which is 100% pro socialist, anti capitalist and has been for quite some time.

then some of them get jobs and have second thoughts about how much tax they pay and what happens to them when they get unemployed.
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Re: Capitalism and Its Discontents

Postby YMix » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:00 am

noddy wrote:the government decided all these roles needed university qualifications rather than private aprenticships.
the government demanded this education be user pays
the government created debts to loan sharks to pay for these government decisions.
the government then opened up the borders so overseas kids like indians or chinese could compete for the same jobs.


So the government makes decisions. Sometimes these decisions contradict each other or end up in contradiction, not necessarily because of incompetence. Different groups push for different things.

In my country I've seen employers demanding a college degree for a data entry job. I have no idea why.

apparently this is capitalisms fault.


Outsourcing is the private sector's fault, migration partly so. Employers are always looking for cheap labor. Amusingly, they want workers to be well-trained, but still cheap. It's all good if somebody else pays.
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