Capitalism and Its Discontents

[YMix]

god is on your side by virtue of you being the one still standing, we are talking about a people whos legal system was built off this principle

That's not how I understand Winthrop words. As a Puritan, he clearly saw the hand of god moving to help his people.

[noddy]

god is on your side by virtue of you being the one still standing, we are talking about a people whos legal system was built off this principle

That's not how I understand Winthrop words. As a Puritan, he clearly saw the hand of god moving to help his people.

im seeing it as "the proof is in the pudding".. gods hand was cleanly seen to be helping his people because they won.

this is my "jesus is a better wodin than wodin" understanding of protestants

[Endovelico]

Bakunin was closest to the best answer to the problem. Spread power around as thin as possible. You will still have tyrants but they will only tyrannize a few people at a time... That's why I think cooperatives are the best way around the capital/labour dilemma. And participative democracy.

[noddy]

Bakunin was closest to the best answer to the problem. Spread power around as thin as possible. You will still have tyrants but they will only tyrannize a few people at a time... That's why I think cooperatives are the best way around the capital/labour dilemma. And participative democracy.

buahhaa, you sound like mr p now.. language and symbols are a funny thing.



no argument from me, this is as good a nutshell of my worldview as any.

[Enki]

Bakunin was closest to the best answer to the problem. Spread power around as thin as possible. You will still have tyrants but they will only tyrannize a few people at a time... That's why I think cooperatives are the best way around the capital/labour dilemma. And participative democracy.

buahhaa, you sound like mr p now.. language and symbols are a funny thing.



no argument from me, this is as good a nutshell of my worldview as any.

Sort of what I always tried to get at with Mr. P. I tried to explain how the most radical left wanted to organize on the community level and distrusted Federal authority mightily. The REAL communists just want to live in their communes and withdraw from the wider world, much like your more radical Christian sects. Capitalism is actually ideally suited to this. The problem is when you throw radical big Government Conservatism of the type that Mr. P. celebrates without appreciating the irony. The Emma Goldmans of the world were never going to overthrow the Capitalist order. She was a rabble rousing crank. By deporting her, she was turned into a folk hero for millions, more people today celebrate Emma Goldman than Mitchell Palmer. But she certainly wasn't advocating big government anything. That's the problem here, the big government authoritarians are really good at the divide and conquer tactics. Those who just want to be left alone in their enclaves should find much to agree about with the bigger picture, whereas in the microcosm they would view the other's slice of paradise as a gateway to Hell.

But none of that should really matter, because if you allow as much local power as possible, people can locally be who and what they want to be. So many people have been radicalized into attacking the macro-society in the culture wars because others have used the government to attack their micro-society and as such they see no recourse. If the man had not been coming in with the jackboots and breaking up my raves when we so cordially held them in warehouses in industrial districts away from the prying eyes of residents in residential neighborhoods, I probably would not give a lavender to this day. But the Authoritarians they just want to use that big government to enforce their way. They love the Tyranny of the Majority, and so we all have to maintain the power struggle because we can't just take a step back and step out, they won't let us tune in, turn on and drop out. If we try, they're going to kick the door in and shove a gun in our mouths.

That's the bitch of it all. I know more than my fair share of folk on terrorist watch lists who are not terrorists. It shouldn't be like this.

[Sparky]

So when people from the fairly far right and the fairly far left of the political spectrum both tell you that anarchism will lead to a much improved capitalist society and a much improved socialist society respectively, no alarm bells go off in your head?

Anyway, I doubt anarchy offers much in the way of protection from tyranny. A meeting between the Mafia Dons from the various oppressive syndicates is all it would take to spread and orchestrate the misery and repression, and in Mr. P's version, well, you're going to bump into someone eventually who's hired better "police" than you.

[Typhoon]

utopia -> from the Greek: οὐ ("not") and τόπος ("place") meaning "no place" -> attempt to implement + human nature -> dystopia

[Endovelico]

So when people from the fairly far right and the fairly far left of the political spectrum both tell you that anarchism will lead to a much improved capitalist society and a much improved socialist society respectively, no alarm bells go off in your head?

Anyway, I doubt anarchy offers much in the way of protection from tyranny. A meeting between the Mafia Dons from the various oppressive syndicates is all it would take to spread and orchestrate the misery and repression, and in Mr. P's version, well, you're going to bump into someone eventually who's hired better "police" than you.

You have a point worth taking. My hope is that at the micro level people (you and I) are capable of controlling the Dons. But there is a good chance I'm wrong on that...

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

For your amusement, likely the first pro-socialist tract written in the English language.......">........

[Endovelico]

Arundhati Roy: Capitalism - A Ghost Story

qv8l9AKZanQ

I haven't watched it all yet, but I have no hesitation in offering it to you.

[Mr. Perfect]

Sort of what I always tried to get at with Mr. P. I tried to explain how the most radical left wanted to organize on the community level and distrusted Federal authority mightily. The REAL communists just want to live in their communes and withdraw from the wider world, much like your more radical Christian sects.

But the unreal communists,they are a total b!tch.

Capitalism is actually ideally suited to this. The problem is when you throw radical big Government Conservatism of the type that Mr. P. celebrates without appreciating the irony.

I would like to privatize some 75% of government, I'm delighted that is now considered to be big government. I cannot wait for the debate to be between me on the big side and lots of other people on the smaller side. I can't wait for it.

[Zack Morris]

I would like to privatize some 75% of government, I'm delighted that is now considered to be big government. I cannot wait for the debate to be between me on the big side and lots of other people on the smaller side. I can't wait for it.

I wonder if that day will ever come. The big multinationals are far more influential (and in many cases, as or more dynamic) than their "small business" counterparts. They want huge government: nominally privatized but in the hands of un-challengeable and unaccountable entities with a legal mandate to do as they please. With your partisan blinders on, you'll rush headfirst into huge government.

[Mr. Perfect]

If so, Democrats would be frothing at the mouth, lining up to vote for Republicans. Can't wait for that to happen. Can't wait.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

Stagnant real wages cannot be discussed without giving a lot of air time to the depressing effect of mass immigration on working class wages. For some reason, most people on the left still don't want to talk about it. Apparently it's not polite.

[Enki]

I would like to privatize some 75% of government, I'm delighted that is now considered to be big government. I cannot wait for the debate to be between me on the big side and lots of other people on the smaller side. I can't wait for it.

I wonder if that day will ever come. The big multinationals are far more influential (and in many cases, as or more dynamic) than their "small business" counterparts. They want huge government: nominally privatized but in the hands of un-challengeable and unaccountable entities with a legal mandate to do as they please. With your partisan blinders on, you'll rush headfirst into huge government.

Basically.

[Enki]

If so, Democrats would be frothing at the mouth, lining up to vote for Republicans. Can't wait for that to happen. Can't wait.

The opposite is happening. Since Democrats don't actually like Big Government, that's just what some of the stupider Republicans think because they aren't very good with nuance, you aren't going to see anything like that anytime soon.

Right now is the time to snuff out Democratic incumbents at the polls and watch as the GOP eats its young. The next three years are going to be fascinating.

It's a great time to be ending corporate personhood.

[Mr. Perfect]

They do say that you take more drugs when you feel more pain. You must really be hurting.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

I would like to privatize some 75% of government, I'm delighted that is now considered to be big government. I cannot wait for the debate to be between me on the big side and lots of other people on the smaller side. I can't wait for it.

I wonder if that day will ever come. The big multinationals are far more influential (and in many cases, as or more dynamic) than their "small business" counterparts. They want huge government: nominally privatized but in the hands of un-challengeable and unaccountable entities with a legal mandate to do as they please. With your partisan blinders on, you'll rush headfirst into huge government.

That's a good post. Allowing the health and benefit of a few large financial institutions to be the primary driver for economic policy is not much different than outsourcing environmental law to an unaccountable government agency.

[Enki]

god is on your side by virtue of you being the one still standing, we are talking about a people whos legal system was built off this principle

That's not how I understand Winthrop words. As a Puritan, he clearly saw the hand of god moving to help his people.

Social Darwinism as God's Hand. It's always amusing when Americans speak out against Social Darwinism since it's the one thing that we all agree on. If you have power, some merit must have given it to you.

It's all God's plan. Snooki's kid is due on December 21, 2012, coincidence? How much more evidence do you need!?

[Enki]

Bakunin was closest to the best answer to the problem. Spread power around as thin as possible. You will still have tyrants but they will only tyrannize a few people at a time... That's why I think cooperatives are the best way around the capital/labour dilemma. And participative democracy.

This is the principle I work under. Which is why what is shaping up to be my life's work can be boiled down to, 'increasing competition in the political market.'

[Enki]

They do say that you take more drugs when you feel more pain. You must really be hurting.

Nah, I am hardly taking drugs now. Don't have the time. Beer/Pot/LSD, they all have a heavy commitment.

[Enki]

That's a good post. Allowing the health and benefit of a few large financial institutions to be the primary driver for economic policy is not much different than outsourcing environmental law to an unaccountable government agency.

I've been arguing for some time, that a monopolistic trust that controls the distribution of resources IS the government. So if people are against Congress and the President, they're not really going against the Government. The only people who are protesting the actual government are protesting Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Bank of America and Citibank. Along with Monsanto they are the greatest threat to freedom and even safety, in the entire world. They want to create a system of dependency by doling out liquidity sparingly so that everyone is working too hard, and is too desperate to have the free time to oppose their will. This is why it is much more efficient to sleep on the sidewalk if one wants to resist them, than to have a home.

[YMix]

Social Darwinism as God's Hand. It's always amusing when Americans speak out against Social Darwinism since it's the one thing that we all agree on. If you have power, some merit must have given it to you.

Quite. If you have money&power, you deserve it. If you don't, you're probably a slacker and deserve nothing.

[Nonc Hilaire]

How can you have capitalism without capital?

You can have free enterprise without capital, but not capitalism. I think Mr P is confused here. FRN's are IOU's on labor, not capital.

[Typhoon]

I would like to privatize some 75% of government, I'm delighted that is now considered to be big government. I cannot wait for the debate to be between me on the big side and lots of other people on the smaller side. I can't wait for it.

I wonder if that day will ever come. The big multinationals are far more influential (and in many cases, as or more dynamic) than their "small business" counterparts. They want huge government: nominally privatized but in the hands of un-challengeable and unaccountable entities with a legal mandate to do as they please. With your partisan blinders on, you'll rush headfirst into huge government.

That's a good post. Allowing the health and benefit of a few large financial institutions to be the primary driver for economic policy is not much different than outsourcing environmental law to an unaccountable government agency.

Indeed. Colluding with Big Govt to raise barriers to market entry helps to develop and maintain quasi-monopolies.