Japan v China

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Alexis
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Re: Japan v China

Post by Alexis »

Endovelico wrote:I guess shooting down a couple of Japanese planes would still be safe enough.
I don't think so.

Ten years ago, the outcome of an air or sea shootout between Beijing and Tokyo would have been certain humiliation of the former.

Given Chinese military power buildup of the last decade, a shootout now would have indetermined outcome. But a Chinese humiliation would remain a possibility, even without US implication.

I can't see Beijing voluntarily running such a risk.

So if a military incident occurs, it will be because of imprudence on one or the other side, not on purpose.
Which means that Japan will soon have nuclear weapons which it will never be able to use, as Japan is a lot more vulnerable, territory-wise, than China.
This is a very hypothetic situation, but in case of US disengagement from Western Pacific and Japanese nuclear armament, a balance of terror would exist between China and Japan even if relative Chinese power was to grow two or five fold. Nuclear weapons would not be usable by either country, they would just ensure that none can threaten the existence of the other.

For details, refer to faible au fort deterrence, and works by General Gallois, Beaufré, et al.
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Re: Japan v China

Post by noddy »

Typhoon wrote:Whoever uses "your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries" first wins the agitprop war.
=]

personally, i have great faith the japanese will escalate to "i fart in your general direction" - you lot seem as prone to a good flatulance joke as the english

endo, size isnt everything, america isnt the only potential ally if china does start getting aggressively and imperial about extending its borders.
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Diplomacy in the Japan/China dispute

Post by Alexis »

Japan-China war of words goes ballistic in Davos
Anybody who thinks China's dispute with Japan is subject to rational calculation should have heard the astonishing outburst a few minutes ago by China's foreign minister, Wang Yi.
"We will never allow past aggressors to overturn the verdict of history," he began. It went downhill from there.
When asked what he thought about the latest warning by Japan's leader Shinzo Abe that the two countries are like England and Germany in 1914, he exploded with barely contained rage:
"Why would he make such a statement? Japanese leaders like to rewrite their history, but the Chinese people cannot forget episodes of history. The invasion of Manchuria in 1930 was an infamous chapter in Japan's history. In 1937 they instigated the Marco Polo bridge incident before launching an all-out onslaught on China.
"Thirty-five million Chinese soldiers and civilians were killed. Who was the instigator? Who was the troublemaker? It is all too clear."
He turned visceral over Mr Abe's recent visit to the Yasukuni shrine in Tokyo: "Even to this day the shrine still advocates that past aggression was justified, that the Pacific War was in self defence. It calls war criminals heroes, even today.
"How can a leader puts flowers on a shrine that violates international principles in this way? Japan's Class A criminals were likes the Nazis. Can you imagine a European leader laying a wreath at a Nazi memorial?"
On the Diaoyu-Senkaku islands – the "Sarajevo" hot spot in the East China Sea – he claimed that Tokyo ignored warnings from Beijing that any move to nationalise the islands would be a grave escalation: "They broke the status quo. We had no choice but to move."
(...)
Yet it is not just a calculated policy by China's Communist Party, a stirring up of revanchiste nationalism to replace the dead ideology of Maoism. Emotions are also running out of control, and Mr Abe is of course a red-flag for a bull.
(...)
Listening to the raw passion in the voices of Shinzo Abe and Wang Yi over the last 24 hours, I think there is an astonishing level complacency about the world's most dangerous fault-line.
Without commenting the value or lack of value of Chinese foreign minister outburst, Evans-Pritchard's point that "Emotions are also running out of control" looks well-taken.

At the beginning of 20th century, no matter the rise of US and to a lesser extent Japan, Europe was dominant on the world stage, and everything was in place for a new European century. The only way for this future not to happen would have been generalized war on the European continent.

At the beginning of 21st century, no matter the survival to date of large parts of US hegemonic system and the resilient economic power of Europe, everything is in place for a Far Eastern century. The only way for this future not to happen would be a generalized war in the Far East.

I don't believe that this risk is actually present, for reasons already stated.
:arrow: Am I lacking in imagination?



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(Normal men do not know that everything is possible)
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Doc
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Re: Diplomacy in the Japan/China dispute

Post by Doc »

Alexis wrote:Japan-China war of words goes ballistic in Davos
Anybody who thinks China's dispute with Japan is subject to rational calculation should have heard the astonishing outburst a few minutes ago by China's foreign minister, Wang Yi.
"We will never allow past aggressors to overturn the verdict of history," he began. It went downhill from there.
When asked what he thought about the latest warning by Japan's leader Shinzo Abe that the two countries are like England and Germany in 1914, he exploded with barely contained rage:
"Why would he make such a statement? Japanese leaders like to rewrite their history, but the Chinese people cannot forget episodes of history. The invasion of Manchuria in 1930 was an infamous chapter in Japan's history. In 1937 they instigated the Marco Polo bridge incident before launching an all-out onslaught on China.
"Thirty-five million Chinese soldiers and civilians were killed. Who was the instigator? Who was the troublemaker? It is all too clear."
He turned visceral over Mr Abe's recent visit to the Yasukuni shrine in Tokyo: "Even to this day the shrine still advocates that past aggression was justified, that the Pacific War was in self defence. It calls war criminals heroes, even today.
"How can a leader puts flowers on a shrine that violates international principles in this way? Japan's Class A criminals were likes the Nazis. Can you imagine a European leader laying a wreath at a Nazi memorial?"
On the Diaoyu-Senkaku islands – the "Sarajevo" hot spot in the East China Sea – he claimed that Tokyo ignored warnings from Beijing that any move to nationalise the islands would be a grave escalation: "They broke the status quo. We had no choice but to move."
(...)
Yet it is not just a calculated policy by China's Communist Party, a stirring up of revanchiste nationalism to replace the dead ideology of Maoism. Emotions are also running out of control, and Mr Abe is of course a red-flag for a bull.
(...)
Listening to the raw passion in the voices of Shinzo Abe and Wang Yi over the last 24 hours, I think there is an astonishing level complacency about the world's most dangerous fault-line.
Without commenting the value or lack of value of Chinese foreign minister outburst, Evans-Pritchard's point that "Emotions are also running out of control" looks well-taken.

At the beginning of 20th century, no matter the rise of US and to a lesser extent Japan, Europe was dominant on the world stage, and everything was in place for a new European century. The only way for this future not to happen would have been generalized war on the European continent.

At the beginning of 21st century, no matter the survival to date of large parts of US hegemonic system and the resilient economic power of Europe, everything is in place for a Far Eastern century. The only way for this future not to happen would be a generalized war in the Far East.

I don't believe that this risk is actually present, for reasons already stated.
:arrow: Am I lacking in imagination?)
Wang Yi did not address the issue at hand other than mention the nationalization of the Islands by Japan. Which clearly was meant to keep the issue from escalating on the part of the Japanese government. He otherwise addressed the past not the present. That is wholly consistent with a rational plan.
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Pray for Peace, Prepare for War & Fallout.....

Post by monster_gardener »

Doc wrote:
Alexis wrote:Japan-China war of words goes ballistic in Davos
Anybody who thinks China's dispute with Japan is subject to rational calculation should have heard the astonishing outburst a few minutes ago by China's foreign minister, Wang Yi.
"We will never allow past aggressors to overturn the verdict of history," he began. It went downhill from there.
When asked what he thought about the latest warning by Japan's leader Shinzo Abe that the two countries are like England and Germany in 1914, he exploded with barely contained rage:
"Why would he make such a statement? Japanese leaders like to rewrite their history, but the Chinese people cannot forget episodes of history. The invasion of Manchuria in 1930 was an infamous chapter in Japan's history. In 1937 they instigated the Marco Polo bridge incident before launching an all-out onslaught on China.
"Thirty-five million Chinese soldiers and civilians were killed. Who was the instigator? Who was the troublemaker? It is all too clear."
He turned visceral over Mr Abe's recent visit to the Yasukuni shrine in Tokyo: "Even to this day the shrine still advocates that past aggression was justified, that the Pacific War was in self defence. It calls war criminals heroes, even today.
"How can a leader puts flowers on a shrine that violates international principles in this way? Japan's Class A criminals were likes the Nazis. Can you imagine a European leader laying a wreath at a Nazi memorial?"
On the Diaoyu-Senkaku islands – the "Sarajevo" hot spot in the East China Sea – he claimed that Tokyo ignored warnings from Beijing that any move to nationalise the islands would be a grave escalation: "They broke the status quo. We had no choice but to move."
(...)
Yet it is not just a calculated policy by China's Communist Party, a stirring up of revanchiste nationalism to replace the dead ideology of Maoism. Emotions are also running out of control, and Mr Abe is of course a red-flag for a bull.
(...)
Listening to the raw passion in the voices of Shinzo Abe and Wang Yi over the last 24 hours, I think there is an astonishing level complacency about the world's most dangerous fault-line.
Without commenting the value or lack of value of Chinese foreign minister outburst, Evans-Pritchard's point that "Emotions are also running out of control" looks well-taken.

At the beginning of 20th century, no matter the rise of US and to a lesser extent Japan, Europe was dominant on the world stage, and everything was in place for a new European century. The only way for this future not to happen would have been generalized war on the European continent.

At the beginning of 21st century, no matter the survival to date of large parts of US hegemonic system and the resilient economic power of Europe, everything is in place for a Far Eastern century. The only way for this future not to happen would be a generalized war in the Far East.

I don't believe that this risk is actually present, for reasons already stated.
:arrow: Am I lacking in imagination?)
Wang Yi did not address the issue at hand other than mention the nationalization of the Islands by Japan. Which clearly was meant to keep the issue from escalating on the part of the Japanese government. He otherwise addressed the past not the present. That is wholly consistent with a rational plan.
Thank You VERY Much for your post, Alexis and Doc.

I hope you are correct....

But if I were Japanese, I might want to have at least a "Just in Time" ;) Nuclear Weapon program...

Might also be wise to have colonies on the Moon and in Asteroids.....

The Chinese Dragons have long memories and hold grudges..... :shock:

In addition to literally considering themselves the Center of the World/Universe...... :roll:

Maybe the Dragons are just blowing smoke ;)

But be ready for fire......
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Re: Japan v China

Post by Azrael »

Alexis wrote:
Endovelico wrote:I guess shooting down a couple of Japanese planes would still be safe enough.
I don't think so.

Ten years ago, the outcome of an air or sea shootout between Beijing and Tokyo would have been certain humiliation of the former.

Given Chinese military power buildup of the last decade, a shootout now would have indetermined outcome. But a Chinese humiliation would remain a possibility, even without US implication.

I can't see Beijing voluntarily running such a risk.

So if a military incident occurs, it will be because of imprudence on one or the other side, not on purpose.
I agree. But in 20 years, things could get very ominous for the Japanese.
Which means that Japan will soon have nuclear weapons which it will never be able to use, as Japan is a lot more vulnerable, territory-wise, than China.
This is a very hypothetic situation, but in case of US disengagement from Western Pacific and Japanese nuclear armament, a balance of terror would exist between China and Japan even if relative Chinese power was to grow two or five fold. Nuclear weapons would not be usable by either country, they would just ensure that none can threaten the existence of the other.

For details, refer to faible au fort deterrence, and works by General Gallois, Beaufré, et al.
I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if Japan had nuclear weapons in 20 years, or sooner.
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Re: Diplomacy in the Japan/China dispute

Post by Azrael »

Doc wrote:
Alexis wrote:Japan-China war of words goes ballistic in Davos
Anybody who thinks China's dispute with Japan is subject to rational calculation should have heard the astonishing outburst a few minutes ago by China's foreign minister, Wang Yi.
"We will never allow past aggressors to overturn the verdict of history," he began. It went downhill from there.
When asked what he thought about the latest warning by Japan's leader Shinzo Abe that the two countries are like England and Germany in 1914, he exploded with barely contained rage:
"Why would he make such a statement? Japanese leaders like to rewrite their history, but the Chinese people cannot forget episodes of history. The invasion of Manchuria in 1930 was an infamous chapter in Japan's history. In 1937 they instigated the Marco Polo bridge incident before launching an all-out onslaught on China.
"Thirty-five million Chinese soldiers and civilians were killed. Who was the instigator? Who was the troublemaker? It is all too clear."
He turned visceral over Mr Abe's recent visit to the Yasukuni shrine in Tokyo: "Even to this day the shrine still advocates that past aggression was justified, that the Pacific War was in self defence. It calls war criminals heroes, even today.
"How can a leader puts flowers on a shrine that violates international principles in this way? Japan's Class A criminals were likes the Nazis. Can you imagine a European leader laying a wreath at a Nazi memorial?"
On the Diaoyu-Senkaku islands – the "Sarajevo" hot spot in the East China Sea – he claimed that Tokyo ignored warnings from Beijing that any move to nationalise the islands would be a grave escalation: "They broke the status quo. We had no choice but to move."
(...)
Yet it is not just a calculated policy by China's Communist Party, a stirring up of revanchiste nationalism to replace the dead ideology of Maoism. Emotions are also running out of control, and Mr Abe is of course a red-flag for a bull.
(...)
Listening to the raw passion in the voices of Shinzo Abe and Wang Yi over the last 24 hours, I think there is an astonishing level complacency about the world's most dangerous fault-line.
Without commenting the value or lack of value of Chinese foreign minister outburst, Evans-Pritchard's point that "Emotions are also running out of control" looks well-taken.

At the beginning of 20th century, no matter the rise of US and to a lesser extent Japan, Europe was dominant on the world stage, and everything was in place for a new European century. The only way for this future not to happen would have been generalized war on the European continent.

At the beginning of 21st century, no matter the survival to date of large parts of US hegemonic system and the resilient economic power of Europe, everything is in place for a Far Eastern century. The only way for this future not to happen would be a generalized war in the Far East.

I don't believe that this risk is actually present, for reasons already stated.
:arrow: Am I lacking in imagination?)
Wang Yi did not address the issue at hand other than mention the nationalization of the Islands by Japan. Which clearly was meant to keep the issue from escalating on the part of the Japanese government. He otherwise addressed the past not the present. That is wholly consistent with a rational plan.
I doubt that there will be a major war in East Asia. It would be too bloody for both China and Japan, and they know it. All this yelling is just to bargain.
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Re: Japan v China

Post by noddy »

rational analysis by people that prioritize peace is only marginally rational.

being in total control of the world markets and money supply is a pretty damn attractive outcome so cynical rationalism would allow for outcomes which put that at the top of the priority list.

we do appear to be in a race to the bottom in terms of debt based stimulus maintaining status quos in a world of massive over supply and the reactions of any of the big players to being marginalised could be ugly indeed.

whats a few unemployed plebs getting killed when the outcome is generations of peace and prosperity.
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Re: Japan v China

Post by Doc »

China's Television War on Japan

FEB. 9, 2014

Contributing Op-Ed Writer

By MURONG XUECUN

BEIJING — Iron Palm Du Dapeng’s eyes are burning with rage. The Chinese martial arts expert strikes a Japanese soldier with his fist and then, using his supernatural powers, tears the soldier in half. Blood splatters, but not a drop lands on the kung fu master.

This is one of many violent scenes in the Chinese television series “The Anti-Japanese Knight,” a recent action drama set during the Japanese invasion of China in the 1930s. Like many Chinese television dramas, the “Anti-Japanese Knight” promotes patriotism and praises the Communist Party for defeating the Japanese, while conveniently leaving out mention of the decisive role played by the Chinese Nationalists in that war. The violence and anti-Japanese tone send a clear message that killing is acceptable — as long as the targets are “Japanese devils.”

I have little doubt that many Chinese people take the “Anti-Japanese Knight” and its version of history as fact, just as I used to think that China won the second Sino-Japanese War by digging tunnels in villages and planting homemade land mines, thanks to “Tunnel Warfare” and “Landmine Warfare,” two classic Chinese-made war movies from the 1960s.

Before television arrived in the countryside, film teams took projectors to villages to screen movies; they were often shown outdoors. As a child in the 1970s, I’d go to screenings as often as possible, blissfully unaware that most of what I was watching was Communist Party propaganda. I must have watched “Tunnel Warfare” and “Landmine Warfare” at least a dozen times.

When I turn on the television these days, I notice not much has changed. The second Sino-Japanese War may have ended in 1945, but the Chinese people are still haunted by it. Enemy Japanese soldiers run amok on Chinese screens. The state-approved films and TV dramas of today are more colorful and the actors are better-looking than in the films of 1960s and ’70s, but the themes remain the same.

The state prohibits content that “incites ethnic hatred,” yet according to Southern Weekly more than 70 anti-Japanese TV series were screened in China in 2012. And in March 2013 the newspaper reported that 48 anti-Japanese-themed TV series were being shot simultaneously in Hengdian World Studios, a film studio in Zhejiang Province, in eastern China.

The result of this stream of rancor is just what you’d expect. A July 2013 Pew research report found that 90 percent of Chinese people have an unfavorable view of Japan. And the hatred for Japan is intensifying. Pew said that “favorability” for Japan has fallen 17 percentage points since 2006.

The anti-Japan virulence drummed up by the media is in full display online. Websites popular among young Chinese nationalists, like Tiexue (Iron Blood) and April Media, are riddled with slogans such as “Destroy Japanese dogs!” or “Annihilate the Japanese people!”

The flow of hate comes while China is building up its military, leaving its neighbors on edge. Beijing will spend $148 billion on its military this year, up from $139 billion in 2013. It launched its first aircraft carrier in 2012, and is building a fleet of submarines that it hopes will outnumber the American fleet.

A hard-line, anti-Western documentary film produced by the Chinese military called “Silent Contest,” circulated online in October 2013, revealed a troubling war-thirsty mind-set among the military. The video attempted to make the case that the United States is actively working to sabotage the Chinese government. Whoever leaked this video may not represent mainstream military thinking, but there is no doubt that pro-military voices are growing louder.

Meanwhile, Beijing repeatedly criticizes Tokyo’s “militarism.” But what are China’s leaders thinking when they promote such hate of their neighbor? The world must be vigilant against “militarism” whenever it arises, but the Chinese government needs to review its own propaganda policies — and weigh the consequences of barraging citizens with such a negative view of Japan.

For now, a small chain of uninhabited islands in the East China Sea is the focal point of contention between the China and Japan. In 2012, tensions over the islands triggered anti-Japanese riots in Chinese cities. Cai Yang, a 21-year-old construction worker in Xi’an, smashed the skull of Li Jianli, the owner of a Japanese car, with a bicycle lock.

Mr. Cai’s mother, explaining the source of her son’s “patriotic” rage, couldn’t have been more trenchant with her question: “When we turn on the TV, most of the dramas are about anti-Japanese war. How would it be possible to not to hate Japanese?”
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Japan v China

Post by Doc »

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/02/19 ... s-us-navy/
China preps military for 'short, sharp war' with Japan, US Navy analyst says

By Perry Chiaramonte
Published February 19, 2014

China is practicing for a "short, sharp war" with Japan.

That is the assessment of a top U.S. Navy intelligence analyst, who told colleagues that China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is currently conducting training exercises in a practice scenario in which the military takes the Senkaku Islands, near Taiwan.

“We witnessed the massive amphibious and cross-military region enterprise,” Capt. James Fannell, deputy chief of staff intelligence and information operations for the U.S. Pacific Fleet (PACFLEET) said at the West 2014 conference on Feb. 13 in San Diego.

“[We] concluded that the PLA has been given the new task to be able to conduct a short, sharp war to destroy Japanese forces in the East China Sea following with what can only be expected a seizure of the Senkakus or even a southern Ryukyu [islands] — as some of their academics say.”

It’s alleged that in the past year, China has increased its military activity, including high-profile actions in the South China Sea as well as combat drills in the south Philippine Sea.

“[We] concluded that the PLA has been given the new task to be able to conduct a short, sharp war to destroy Japanese forces in the East China Sea ..."

- Capt. James Fannell, U.S. Pacific Fleet

Fannell's comments were reported by the U.S. Naval Institute, an independent professional association founded in 1873 which closely follows navy matters.

“There is growing concern that China’s pattern of behavior in the South China Sea reflects an incremental effort by China to assert control of the area contained in the so-called 9-dash line despite the objections of its neighbors, and despite the lack of any explanation or apparent basis under international law,” Fannell also said.

Japan has in recent months accused a Chinese warship of locking its missile-targeting radar onto one of its warships, Fannell noted. China first denied the claim, but later admitted it while downplaying any danger the incident posed.

Retired U.S. Army Lt. Col. Ralph Peters said China has a habit of bullying its neighbors with intimidating military drills, though exercises aimed at Japan are a new and worrisome wrinkle.

“The Chinese have conducted training exercises aimed at Taiwan for decades--but haven't invaded,” Peters, also a Fox News military analyst, told FoxNews.com. “The latest Chinese exercises that appear to rehearse an invasion of the Senkaku Islands are probably in that vein: Military exercises as a show of strength, a closed-fist tool of diplomacy, and, yes, a threat, but not one on which Beijing really desires to act.”

Peters adds that the exercises are likely China’s attempt at posturing.

“At present, China would have a great deal to lose by attacking or otherwise provoking a confrontation with Japan,” he said. “At the same time, the Chinese feel they're the regional (and global) rising power and they rather enjoy flexing their muscles. You might say they're proud of their physique, but don't really want a fight. In that sense, these exercises are a strategic ‘selfie.’”

The PLA is not the only one with seemingly aggressive moves as of late. Fannell also mentioned at the West conference that the Chinese coast guard is engaged in “quasi-military actions.”

“Tensions in the South and East China Seas have deteriorated with the Chinese coast guard playing the role of antagonist, harassing China’s neighbors while PLA Navy ships, their protectors, (make) port calls throughout the region promising friendship and cooperation,” he said, adding that China has spent $1.6 million on improvements to outposts in the South China Sea including development of ports, airfields, water purification and surveillance systems.

The assessments made at the conference are in stark contrasts to recent US efforts to tighten military-to military ties with China.

The Navy’s head of operations, plans and strategy, Rear Adm. James Foggo said while on the same conference panel that there was a recent successful meeting between U.S. Navy officials and the head of the PLA’s naval forces.

A U.S. delegation also toured PLAN ships and submarines and is working out plans for the Chinese navy to participate in the Rim of the Pacific 2014 (RIMPAC) exercise later this year.
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Post by monster_gardener »

Doc wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/02/19 ... s-us-navy/
China preps military for 'short, sharp war' with Japan, US Navy analyst says

By Perry Chiaramonte
Published February 19, 2014

China is practicing for a "short, sharp war" with Japan.

That is the assessment of a top U.S. Navy intelligence analyst, who told colleagues that China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is currently conducting training exercises in a practice scenario in which the military takes the Senkaku Islands, near Taiwan.

“We witnessed the massive amphibious and cross-military region enterprise,” Capt. James Fannell, deputy chief of staff intelligence and information operations for the U.S. Pacific Fleet (PACFLEET) said at the West 2014 conference on Feb. 13 in San Diego.

“[We] concluded that the PLA has been given the new task to be able to conduct a short, sharp war to destroy Japanese forces in the East China Sea following with what can only be expected a seizure of the Senkakus or even a southern Ryukyu [islands] — as some of their academics say.”

It’s alleged that in the past year, China has increased its military activity, including high-profile actions in the South China Sea as well as combat drills in the south Philippine Sea.

“[We] concluded that the PLA has been given the new task to be able to conduct a short, sharp war to destroy Japanese forces in the East China Sea ..."

- Capt. James Fannell, U.S. Pacific Fleet

Fannell's comments were reported by the U.S. Naval Institute, an independent professional association founded in 1873 which closely follows navy matters.

“There is growing concern that China’s pattern of behavior in the South China Sea reflects an incremental effort by China to assert control of the area contained in the so-called 9-dash line despite the objections of its neighbors, and despite the lack of any explanation or apparent basis under international law,” Fannell also said.

Japan has in recent months accused a Chinese warship of locking its missile-targeting radar onto one of its warships, Fannell noted. China first denied the claim, but later admitted it while downplaying any danger the incident posed.

Retired U.S. Army Lt. Col. Ralph Peters said China has a habit of bullying its neighbors with intimidating military drills, though exercises aimed at Japan are a new and worrisome wrinkle.

“The Chinese have conducted training exercises aimed at Taiwan for decades--but haven't invaded,” Peters, also a Fox News military analyst, told FoxNews.com. “The latest Chinese exercises that appear to rehearse an invasion of the Senkaku Islands are probably in that vein: Military exercises as a show of strength, a closed-fist tool of diplomacy, and, yes, a threat, but not one on which Beijing really desires to act.”

Peters adds that the exercises are likely China’s attempt at posturing.

“At present, China would have a great deal to lose by attacking or otherwise provoking a confrontation with Japan,” he said. “At the same time, the Chinese feel they're the regional (and global) rising power and they rather enjoy flexing their muscles. You might say they're proud of their physique, but don't really want a fight. In that sense, these exercises are a strategic ‘selfie.’”

The PLA is not the only one with seemingly aggressive moves as of late. Fannell also mentioned at the West conference that the Chinese coast guard is engaged in “quasi-military actions.”

“Tensions in the South and East China Seas have deteriorated with the Chinese coast guard playing the role of antagonist, harassing China’s neighbors while PLA Navy ships, their protectors, (make) port calls throughout the region promising friendship and cooperation,” he said, adding that China has spent $1.6 million on improvements to outposts in the South China Sea including development of ports, airfields, water purification and surveillance systems.

The assessments made at the conference are in stark contrasts to recent US efforts to tighten military-to military ties with China.

The Navy’s head of operations, plans and strategy, Rear Adm. James Foggo said while on the same conference panel that there was a recent successful meeting between U.S. Navy officials and the head of the PLA’s naval forces.

A U.S. delegation also toured PLAN ships and submarines and is working out plans for the Chinese navy to participate in the Rim of the Pacific 2014 (RIMPAC) exercise later this year.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Doc.

Seems that Japan may need to consider developing nukes....... :|

Ideally as a Orion style propulsion system for its fine space program... ;) :D

Another option might be a scorched earth gambit where nuclear and other toxic waste is stored with a dead man switch or even spread on the uninhabited Senkakus to render them useless to anyone invading......

Much might depend on prevailing winds and sea currents..... Best chance of deterrence if it goes toward the Dragon's Lair......

In a semi-humorous vein, maybe Godzilla or Mothra would show up.... ;) :roll:
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Re: Orion Will Rise vs. Scorched Earth

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

monster_gardener wrote:
Doc wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/02/19 ... s-us-navy/
China preps military for 'short, sharp war' with Japan, US Navy analyst says

By Perry Chiaramonte
Published February 19, 2014

China is practicing for a "short, sharp war" with Japan.

That is the assessment of a top U.S. Navy intelligence analyst, who told colleagues that China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is currently conducting training exercises in a practice scenario in which the military takes the Senkaku Islands, near Taiwan.

“We witnessed the massive amphibious and cross-military region enterprise,” Capt. James Fannell, deputy chief of staff intelligence and information operations for the U.S. Pacific Fleet (PACFLEET) said at the West 2014 conference on Feb. 13 in San Diego.

“[We] concluded that the PLA has been given the new task to be able to conduct a short, sharp war to destroy Japanese forces in the East China Sea following with what can only be expected a seizure of the Senkakus or even a southern Ryukyu [islands] — as some of their academics say.”

It’s alleged that in the past year, China has increased its military activity, including high-profile actions in the South China Sea as well as combat drills in the south Philippine Sea.

“[We] concluded that the PLA has been given the new task to be able to conduct a short, sharp war to destroy Japanese forces in the East China Sea ..."

- Capt. James Fannell, U.S. Pacific Fleet

Fannell's comments were reported by the U.S. Naval Institute, an independent professional association founded in 1873 which closely follows navy matters.

“There is growing concern that China’s pattern of behavior in the South China Sea reflects an incremental effort by China to assert control of the area contained in the so-called 9-dash line despite the objections of its neighbors, and despite the lack of any explanation or apparent basis under international law,” Fannell also said.

Japan has in recent months accused a Chinese warship of locking its missile-targeting radar onto one of its warships, Fannell noted. China first denied the claim, but later admitted it while downplaying any danger the incident posed.

Retired U.S. Army Lt. Col. Ralph Peters said China has a habit of bullying its neighbors with intimidating military drills, though exercises aimed at Japan are a new and worrisome wrinkle.

“The Chinese have conducted training exercises aimed at Taiwan for decades--but haven't invaded,” Peters, also a Fox News military analyst, told FoxNews.com. “The latest Chinese exercises that appear to rehearse an invasion of the Senkaku Islands are probably in that vein: Military exercises as a show of strength, a closed-fist tool of diplomacy, and, yes, a threat, but not one on which Beijing really desires to act.”

Peters adds that the exercises are likely China’s attempt at posturing.

“At present, China would have a great deal to lose by attacking or otherwise provoking a confrontation with Japan,” he said. “At the same time, the Chinese feel they're the regional (and global) rising power and they rather enjoy flexing their muscles. You might say they're proud of their physique, but don't really want a fight. In that sense, these exercises are a strategic ‘selfie.’”

The PLA is not the only one with seemingly aggressive moves as of late. Fannell also mentioned at the West conference that the Chinese coast guard is engaged in “quasi-military actions.”

“Tensions in the South and East China Seas have deteriorated with the Chinese coast guard playing the role of antagonist, harassing China’s neighbors while PLA Navy ships, their protectors, (make) port calls throughout the region promising friendship and cooperation,” he said, adding that China has spent $1.6 million on improvements to outposts in the South China Sea including development of ports, airfields, water purification and surveillance systems.

The assessments made at the conference are in stark contrasts to recent US efforts to tighten military-to military ties with China.

The Navy’s head of operations, plans and strategy, Rear Adm. James Foggo said while on the same conference panel that there was a recent successful meeting between U.S. Navy officials and the head of the PLA’s naval forces.

A U.S. delegation also toured PLAN ships and submarines and is working out plans for the Chinese navy to participate in the Rim of the Pacific 2014 (RIMPAC) exercise later this year.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Doc.

Seems that Japan may need to consider developing nukes....... :|

Ideally as a Orion style propulsion system for its fine space program... ;) :D

Another option might be a scorched earth gambit where nuclear and other toxic waste is stored with a dead man switch or even spread on the uninhabited Senkakus to render them useless to anyone invading......

Much might depend on prevailing winds and sea currents..... Best chance of deterrence if it goes toward the Dragon's Lair......

In a semi-humorous vein, maybe Godzilla or Mothra would show up.... ;) :roll:

.


Future wars will be between different races

Why should Japan fight China ? ? ?

They same race

and

why should America get involved in a "family quarrel" ? ?

Short answer is, America will not

In that sense, there will be no war between China and Japan

unless Japan suicidal


.
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From Black on Black Crime to Dagon Jewish Kamikaze Comedians

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
Doc wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/02/19 ... s-us-navy/
China preps military for 'short, sharp war' with Japan, US Navy analyst says

By Perry Chiaramonte
Published February 19, 2014

China is practicing for a "short, sharp war" with Japan.

That is the assessment of a top U.S. Navy intelligence analyst, who told colleagues that China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is currently conducting training exercises in a practice scenario in which the military takes the Senkaku Islands, near Taiwan.

“We witnessed the massive amphibious and cross-military region enterprise,” Capt. James Fannell, deputy chief of staff intelligence and information operations for the U.S. Pacific Fleet (PACFLEET) said at the West 2014 conference on Feb. 13 in San Diego.

“[We] concluded that the PLA has been given the new task to be able to conduct a short, sharp war to destroy Japanese forces in the East China Sea following with what can only be expected a seizure of the Senkakus or even a southern Ryukyu [islands] — as some of their academics say.”

It’s alleged that in the past year, China has increased its military activity, including high-profile actions in the South China Sea as well as combat drills in the south Philippine Sea.

“[We] concluded that the PLA has been given the new task to be able to conduct a short, sharp war to destroy Japanese forces in the East China Sea ..."

- Capt. James Fannell, U.S. Pacific Fleet

Fannell's comments were reported by the U.S. Naval Institute, an independent professional association founded in 1873 which closely follows navy matters.

“There is growing concern that China’s pattern of behavior in the South China Sea reflects an incremental effort by China to assert control of the area contained in the so-called 9-dash line despite the objections of its neighbors, and despite the lack of any explanation or apparent basis under international law,” Fannell also said.

Japan has in recent months accused a Chinese warship of locking its missile-targeting radar onto one of its warships, Fannell noted. China first denied the claim, but later admitted it while downplaying any danger the incident posed.

Retired U.S. Army Lt. Col. Ralph Peters said China has a habit of bullying its neighbors with intimidating military drills, though exercises aimed at Japan are a new and worrisome wrinkle.

“The Chinese have conducted training exercises aimed at Taiwan for decades--but haven't invaded,” Peters, also a Fox News military analyst, told FoxNews.com. “The latest Chinese exercises that appear to rehearse an invasion of the Senkaku Islands are probably in that vein: Military exercises as a show of strength, a closed-fist tool of diplomacy, and, yes, a threat, but not one on which Beijing really desires to act.”

Peters adds that the exercises are likely China’s attempt at posturing.

“At present, China would have a great deal to lose by attacking or otherwise provoking a confrontation with Japan,” he said. “At the same time, the Chinese feel they're the regional (and global) rising power and they rather enjoy flexing their muscles. You might say they're proud of their physique, but don't really want a fight. In that sense, these exercises are a strategic ‘selfie.’”

The PLA is not the only one with seemingly aggressive moves as of late. Fannell also mentioned at the West conference that the Chinese coast guard is engaged in “quasi-military actions.”

“Tensions in the South and East China Seas have deteriorated with the Chinese coast guard playing the role of antagonist, harassing China’s neighbors while PLA Navy ships, their protectors, (make) port calls throughout the region promising friendship and cooperation,” he said, adding that China has spent $1.6 million on improvements to outposts in the South China Sea including development of ports, airfields, water purification and surveillance systems.

The assessments made at the conference are in stark contrasts to recent US efforts to tighten military-to military ties with China.

The Navy’s head of operations, plans and strategy, Rear Adm. James Foggo said while on the same conference panel that there was a recent successful meeting between U.S. Navy officials and the head of the PLA’s naval forces.

A U.S. delegation also toured PLAN ships and submarines and is working out plans for the Chinese navy to participate in the Rim of the Pacific 2014 (RIMPAC) exercise later this year.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Doc.

Seems that Japan may need to consider developing nukes....... :|

Ideally as a Orion style propulsion system for its fine space program... ;) :D

Another option might be a scorched earth gambit where nuclear and other toxic waste is stored with a dead man switch or even spread on the uninhabited Senkakus to render them useless to anyone invading......

Much might depend on prevailing winds and sea currents..... Best chance of deterrence if it goes toward the Dragon's Lair......

In a semi-humorous vein, maybe Godzilla or Mothra would show up.... ;) :roll:

.


Future wars will be between different races

Why should Japan fight China ? ? ?

They same race

and

why should America get involved in a "family quarrel" ? ?

Short answer is, America will not

In that sense, there will be no war between China and Japan

unless Japan suicidal


.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

Why should Japan fight China ? ? ?

They same race
:lol: :roll:

That not stop most people intent on killing most of the time.... :| :roll:

Black on Black warfare & crime.....

Brown on Brown warfare & crime....

Red on Red warfare & crime...

White on White warfare & crime......

Yellow on Yellow warfare & crime....

Specifically recalling that in the past, China has invaded Japan* & Japan has invaded China.....

Same 'race' more or less but as said, often not matter enough to stop it ......

Similarly British, French, German, Italians, Russians, Swedes, Uz.....
unless Japan suicidal
Please, Azari ;) :lol: :roll: ........

Ok, the Romans did it a lot too.. Often cutting their wrists in hot baths instead of the classic Japanese seppuku...

More relevant to the discussion is that fact that Modern Japanese Suicides in time of war are often deadly for their enemies too.... :shock:

As we Uz well know.... :|


Just like the first and most Famous Kamikaze ;) of them all......
That Hirsute ;) Body-Building ;) Jewish Comedian, Samson, who Brought the House Down ;) :twisted: :lol:

On the Palestinians ;) Oops..... Dagon It! :twisted: .... I mean Philistines..... :lol:

Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagon

*Stopped by a couple of Kamikazes ;) who Blew the Bad guys away ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze#D ... _etymology
Image
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Re: From Black on Black Crime to Dagon Jewish Kamikaze Comed

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

monster_gardener wrote:.
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


Why should Japan fight China ? ? ?

They same race

.

:lol: :roll:


That not stop most people intent on killing most of the time.... :| :roll:


.

Wars start only because somebody eating somebody else's lunch (1940, Winston eating Adolf's lunch)

at this point and time you guys eating Chinese and Japanese lunch

monster_gardener wrote:.
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

unless Japan suicidal

.

Please, Azari ;) :lol: :roll: ........

.


Monster, Don't know about Torah neither Bible,

but

FYI

Koran should know

AFAIK, apparently, in Koran it is explicitly mentioned the Chinese will conquer the world (and that is when Mahdi will show up)

Seems plausible 2meeeeee :lol:


.
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Wrath, Greed, Gluttony, Sloth, Pride, Envy, Lust .......

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:.
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


Why should Japan fight China ? ? ?

They same race

.

:lol: :roll:


That not stop most people intent on killing most of the time.... :| :roll:


.

Wars start only because somebody eating somebody else's lunch (1940, Winston eating Adolf's lunch)

at this point and time you guys eating Chinese and Japanese lunch

monster_gardener wrote:.
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

unless Japan suicidal

.

Please, Azari ;) :lol: :roll: ........

.


Monster, Don't know about Torah neither Bible,

but

FYI

Koran should know

AFAIK, apparently, in Koran it is explicitly mentioned the Chinese will conquer the world (and that is when Mahdi will show up)........

Seems plausible 2meeeeee :lol:


.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari
Wars start only because somebody eating somebody else's lunch
:roll:

Not at all......... :roll:

Depraved Sinful Egotistical Chaos Monkey Human Beings can find many reasons to become Killer Apes...... :roll:

Here are Seven :twisted: ......Wrath, Greed, Gluttony, Sloth, Pride, Envy, Lust .......

There may be/probably are more........
Koran it is explicitly mentioned the Chinese will conquer the world (and that is when Mahdi will show up)........
Interesting........ Citation please.........
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Re: Orion Will Rise vs. Scorched Earth

Post by Typhoon »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Future wars will be between different races
Future tense?

WWII in the Pacific was a no-holds-barred give-no-quarter race war.

Colonial wars were justified by race.

Race is one of the most poorly defined biological concepts.

Killing billions of people based on minor variations in eye, skin, and hair colour is not future I would want.
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Why should Japan fight China ? ? ?

They same race
Yeah, all look the same.

If one defines race according to genetics, then no they're particularly related.

The Japanese, Koreans, and Mongol have some genetic relations.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2209020673

http://www.miroise.org/public/Science-2 ... 747-51.pdf

However, this is a field of active ongoing research and much work remains to be done
that will change our understanding.

Chinese, Japanese, and esp Korean nationalist nutters cannot deal with this reality.

Less so between the Japanese and the Han Chinese.
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Re: Japan v China

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


Look,

Wars were never for ideology, freedom, justice and and and

wars always have been for economic reason .. in surface sometimes this not obvious, but behind the vale, economics always the reason .. same with Tchingiz, with Attila, with Churchill, with Hitler, with America and and and

next war will also be for "resources", same as last was

new reality is

"White man" was enjoying 80% of the resources of all kind .. Oil & gas , food , metals, and and and .. pretty much everything .. looking at "PER CAPITA" consumption .. "white man" was consuming 1000 times more then Yellow (forget the BLACK, they never counted as humans)

Reality now is, "non white" want their share of resources, Energy, Food, Metals and everything else

Who has to GIVE ? ? ? .. the WHITE guys

in that sense

the struggles in the future will be

between the "white guy" and everybody else, mainly the YELLOW guys

That is the reality .. and that is what already happening

now

Japan, in all senses, is much closer to China then to Europe, Australia, Canada America and and

meaning, Japan's future lies with China and not with the "white guy"

and

Japan's economic ties with "white guy", Europe, America and and were an abnormality due to rebuilding due to WW2 .. those "arrangement" between "white guy" and Japan do not hold anymore for many economic reason

In that sense, Japan better integrate itself into their "brethren" territory and build a BLOCK to take care of their hemispheric interest together with their own kind

Korea, China, Japan same close as French, German, Brits, Spaniard or Italians

Japan should learn from French, they now best friend with Germans .. and .. Germans take care of French .. If Japan shakes hand with China, China with take care of Japan as Germans take care of French

and

remember how many French and Germany killed of each other .. millions

If French can do, Japan too should be able to do

Anybody arguing otherwise for sure no friend of Japanese people


.
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Post by monster_gardener »

Typhoon wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Future wars will be between different races
Future tense?

WWII in the Pacific was a no-holds-barred give-no-quarter race war.

Colonial wars were justified by race.

Race is one of the most poorly defined biological concepts.

Killing billions of people based on minor variations in eye, skin, and hair colour is not future I would want.
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Why should Japan fight China ? ? ?

They same race
Yeah, all look the same.

If one defines race according to genetics, then no they're particularly related.

The Japanese, Koreans, and Mongol have some genetic relations.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2209020673

http://www.miroise.org/public/Science-2 ... 747-51.pdf

However, this is a field of active ongoing research and much work remains to be done
that will change our understanding.

Chinese, Japanese, and esp Korean nationalist nutters cannot deal with this reality.

Less so between the Japanese and the Han Chinese.


Thank You Very Much for your post, Esteemed Typhoon.
WWII in the Pacific was a no-holds-barred give-no-quarter race war.
WWII in Europe was also to a large degree, a race war.... Infamously so....... :evil:

But both the European & Pacific fronts were also wars of many often conflicting memes/ideologies/philosophies/religions....

And perhaps/probably for that reason neither was completely a no quarter affair.......

The IMHO Good side/Allies had some Very bad/angry/ruthless guys working for it.........

The IMHO Bad side/Axis had at least a few very good/kind/merciful people working for it

Chiune Sugihara of the Japanese Diplomatic Corps/'Yellow' 'Race' saved thousands of Jews of the ~"White/Semitic' Race at the cost of his career and poverty........

Credit is also due the Japanese Government who just were NOT into the Murderous Race Meme at least toward Jews the way so many Germans were....

John Rabe of the German Diplomatic Corps/'White/Aryan ' 'Race' saved thousands of Chinese of the 'Yellow' 'Race' also at the cost of his career..........

IMVHO among human beings, it is more often the meme that matters rather than the gene.....

Race is one of the most poorly defined biological concepts.
Seconded.......

It exists but except for the chimps & similar who AIUI are about 2% or more different and have major problems with vocal communication, not really a big deal*

IMHO comparable to various breeds of house cats......

Different colors, different types of hair, some tailess &/or comparable to human dwarfs, some personality differences but comparable to that which can be achieved with socialization/upbringing.....

Nowhere near as much variation as you see with dogs/wolves.......

Also IMVHO race is likely to become a less important concept in the future at least here in Uz given the amount of intermarriage and other fraternization between the races...



*Recalling Jared Diamond's idea that humans are one of 3 species/subspecies of Chimpanzees ;)

Or that Chimps and Bonobos are actually a human species..... :shock:
Last edited by monster_gardener on Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Meme More Important than Gene amoung Third Chimpanzees..

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Typhoon wrote:.

Race is one of the most poorly defined biological concepts.

.


Come on, Colonel, come on .. push comet to shove, things not as "poorly" as you think, in fact pretty much clear


You cut and slice the way you want, but, things as Azari sayin

"White Man" can not be trusted, not a bit .. look what they doing to all Middle East, only because of Oil .. last 100 yrs, first Brits later Americans and Europeans did all to hinter progress in ME, promoting fascist, Islamism, Wahhabism, tyrants, overthrowing democratically elected leaders .. enslaving 500 million people, just for OIL .. and, still counting

You guys and Chinese brothers and sisters, join forces

Don't let yourself be fooled by the "white man"


.
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Space Exploration is Better than a Zero Sum Game......

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


Look,

Wars were never for ideology, freedom, justice and and and

wars always have been for economic reason .. in surface sometimes this not obvious, but behind the vale, economics always the reason .. same with Tchingiz, with Attila, with Churchill, with Hitler, with America and and and

next war will also be for "resources", same as last was

new reality is

"White man" was enjoying 80% of the resources of all kind .. Oil & gas , food , metals, and and and .. pretty much everything .. looking at "PER CAPITA" consumption .. "white man" was consuming 1000 times more then Yellow (forget the BLACK, they never counted as humans)

Reality now is, "non white" want their share of resources, Energy, Food, Metals and everything else

Who has to GIVE ? ? ? .. the WHITE guys

in that sense

the struggles in the future will be

between the "white guy" and everybody else, mainly the YELLOW guys

That is the reality .. and that is what already happening

now

Japan, in all senses, is much closer to China then to Europe, Australia, Canada America and and

meaning, Japan's future lies with China and not with the "white guy"

and

Japan's economic ties with "white guy", Europe, America and and were an abnormality due to rebuilding due to WW2 .. those "arrangement" between "white guy" and Japan do not hold anymore for many economic reason

In that sense, Japan better integrate itself into their "brethren" territory and build a BLOCK to take care of their hemispheric interest together with their own kind

Korea, China, Japan same close as French, German, Brits, Spaniard or Italians

Japan should learn from French, they now best friend with Germans .. and .. Germans take care of French .. If Japan shakes hand with China, China with take care of Japan as Germans take care of French

and

remember how many French and Germany killed of each other .. millions

If French can do, Japan too should be able to do

Anybody arguing otherwise for sure no friend of Japanese people


.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari...
Wars were never for ideology, freedom, justice and and and

wars always have been for economic reason ..
Economics can be a reason for war but so can ideology, freedom and justice.........

As well as all of the 7 Cardinal Sins: Wrath, Greed, Gluttony, Lust, Pride, Envy, Sloth ...... Even Sloth.....

Wars and killing often happen against economic interest......

"White man" was enjoying 80% of the resources of all kind .. Oil & gas , food , metals, and and and .. pretty much everything .. looking at "PER CAPITA" consumption .. "white man" was consuming 1000 times more then Yellow (forget the BLACK, they never counted as humans)

Reality now is, "non white" want their share of resources, Energy, Food, Metals and everything else

Who has to GIVE ? ? ? .. the WHITE guys
Nope........

That is a Formula for disaster..... Violence & Revolutions happen more when people start losing something that they have...*


What we have to hope does GIVE is science, technology & organization**.....

The tactical game should be to increase wealth for everyone.......

The strategic game is for the human race to survive........

IMVHO given our Depraved, Sinful, Egotistical Chaotic Monkey/Chimps natures that means mostly Space exploration, exploitation and colonization..........***

Anything else is likely a zero sum game which is not a good idea with Chaos Monkeys armed with WMDs...

Anybody arguing otherwise for sure no friend of Japanese people
I am a friend of Japan & the Japanese People........

Japan just like every other space tech capable nation should see about getting a sustainable presence off Earth if it wants to preserve its culture long term.........

Not depend on Uz, the Euroz (ESA) or the Russians....

Let alone the Chinese who AIUI are somewhat ;) angry with them...... :shock:



**AIUI the world produces enough food for everyone..... The problem is getting it to them..........

***Though things like Undersea/Under earth and similar should also be done/tried.....
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Re: Space Exploration is Better than a Zero Sum Game......

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

monster_gardener wrote:.
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

Wars were never for ideology, freedom, justice and and and

wars always have been for economic reason ..

.
Economics can be a reason for war but so can ideology, freedom and justice.........

As well as all of the 7 Cardinal Sins: Wrath, Greed, Gluttony, Lust, Pride, Envy, Sloth ...... Even Sloth.....

Wars and killing often happen against economic interest......


.


Monster,

Moh (the pedophile),

for 8 yrs,

was preaching moral & ethics to those animals

and ? ? ?

only 2 Arabs accepted Islam, his wife and his father in law

but

when he said

let's plunder

when he said,

G_D condones anybody who does not accept Islam, can be killed, his wife and daughter be taken and his wealth plundered

BINGO

numbers of his followers exploded .. all thugs and criminals after other people's wealth and wife and daughters and and and

well

In human history nobody went to war for democracy or freedom or ideology .. it was all business


.
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Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Typhoon wrote:.

Race is one of the most poorly defined biological concepts.

.


Come on, Colonel, come on .. push comet to shove, things not as "poorly" as you think, in fact pretty much clear


You cut and slice the way you want, but, things as Azari sayin

"White Man" can not be trusted, not a bit .. look what they doing to all Middle East, only because of Oil .. last 100 yrs, first Brits later Americans and Europeans did all to hinter progress in ME, promoting fascist, Islamism, Wahhabism, tyrants, overthrowing democratically elected leaders .. enslaving 500 million people, just for OIL .. and, still counting

You guys and Chinese brothers and sisters, join forces

Don't let yourself be fooled by the "white man"


.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

Even though I am tempted to call it 'racist' ;) :twisted: :lol: ......

But I don't want to imitate "you know who" and I do not mean Voldemort ;) of Harry Potter fame.... :lol:
"White Man" can not be trusted, not a bit ..
Neither can one trust the Black Man/Woman, the Brown Man/Woman, the Red Man/Woman, the Yellow Man/Woman, the Chimpanzee Man/Woman*.......

You are better off trusting a dog that you help than a Human being/Depraved Sinful Egotistical Chaos Monkey of ANY color that you help.....
“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man.”

― Mark Twain
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1618-if ... d-make-him

just for OIL ..
Nope....

The first motive was to keep the Islamics (who are classically but not exclusively Brown: its a meme thing :twisted: ) from doing likewise and worse nasty to us/Uz and everyone else who is not Muslim.... :roll:

The tide turned long before Oil was Big..........When horses, wind & wood were MUCH more important......

At a battlefield called Tours in Southern France when a man Charles had a Hammer ;) & he Hammered Jihadis in the morning all over his land... :lol: (Hat Tip to Pete Seeger/Peter, Paul & Mary :twisted: )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_the_Hammer

At the Gates of Vienna when a man ;) named Jan ;) from Poland and his Hussars made Jerks of the Janns ;) of the Turks..... ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Sobieski

At Club Med ;) , the Battle of Lepanto, when Don Miquel "Quixote" Cervantes became the Manco of La Mancha lamed in the arm again turning back the Turks back......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Sobieski

And when a pipsqueak young nation called US/Uz showed the Big Boyz & Grrlz in Europe that they didn't need to pay protection money any more to a bunch of Islamics/Pirates who thought that Allah had entitled them to prey on infidels..........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bar ... #Aftermath

brothers and sisters
Have known to kill each other since the dawn of time.....

Recalling Egyptian & Turkish history.......

Ptolemies vs Cleopatras vs Sisters thereof ....... :roll:

The Law of Fratricide...... :roll:

VaWl2lA7968


*Some say the Bonobo Man/Woman may be trusted but other say need more research is needed as it took years for even Jane Goodall to discover how violent Chimps can be :shock: .......
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: A Man Named Jan, Hammering:Dogs more Trustworthy than Ch

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

monster_gardener wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Typhoon wrote:.

Race is one of the most poorly defined biological concepts.

.


Come on, Colonel, come on .. push comet to shove, things not as "poorly" as you think, in fact pretty much clear


You cut and slice the way you want, but, things as Azari sayin

"White Man" can not be trusted, not a bit .. look what they doing to all Middle East, only because of Oil .. last 100 yrs, first Brits later Americans and Europeans did all to hinter progress in ME, promoting fascist, Islamism, Wahhabism, tyrants, overthrowing democratically elected leaders .. enslaving 500 million people, just for OIL .. and, still counting

You guys and Chinese brothers and sisters, join forces

Don't let yourself be fooled by the "white man"


.


Even though I am tempted to call it 'racist' ;) :twisted: :lol: ......


.



Fact is, there are different races

RACISM is when one "LOOKS DOWN", has negative prejudice, to people of other race

In Iran we have 100s of thousands of Tajik, Uzback (and Arab) .. they one of all Iranians like anybody else since 1000s of years .. Some Kings were Tajik, some Uzback decent .. many Persian Giants of all disciplines were Uzback or Tajik or Kurd or Azari

"RACISM" becomes when one has "negative" prejudice, looks down, to people of other race .. there is a reason that overwhelming majority of death rows in America are (innocent) blacks, and most blacks have been in jail at least once before they get even to 20 yrs old or unemployment is many fold for blacks, spare you western action in Angola, Kongo and and and .. Racism was what happened in Abu Ghoreib (spare you the pictures) .. argument could be made America would never drop 2 nuke on German civilian like did to Japan.

Saying races should keep to each other to represent their interest has no negative prejudice .. in fact I look up to Chinese and Japanese and Korean race, same with Blondi :lol:




.
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monster_gardener
Posts: 5334
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:36 am
Location: Trolla. Land of upside down trees and tomatos........

In G_d We Trust/Affinity Scams/The Mongrel Race/Duke Nukem..

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Typhoon wrote:.

Race is one of the most poorly defined biological concepts.

.


Come on, Colonel, come on .. push comet to shove, things not as "poorly" as you think, in fact pretty much clear


You cut and slice the way you want, but, things as Azari sayin

"White Man" can not be trusted, not a bit .. look what they doing to all Middle East, only because of Oil .. last 100 yrs, first Brits later Americans and Europeans did all to hinter progress in ME, promoting fascist, Islamism, Wahhabism, tyrants, overthrowing democratically elected leaders .. enslaving 500 million people, just for OIL .. and, still counting

You guys and Chinese brothers and sisters, join forces

Don't let yourself be fooled by the "white man"


.


Even though I am tempted to call it 'racist' ;) :twisted: :lol: ......


.



Fact is, there are different races

RACISM is when one "LOOKS DOWN", has negative prejudice, to people of other race

In Iran we have 100s of thousands of Tajik, Uzback (and Arab) .. they one of all Iranians like anybody else since 1000s of years .. Some Kings were Tajik, some Uzback decent .. many Persian Giants of all disciplines were Uzback or Tajik or Kurd or Azari

"RACISM" becomes when one has "negative" prejudice, looks down, to people of other race .. there is a reason that overwhelming majority of death rows in America are (innocent) blacks, and most blacks have been in jail at least once before they get even to 20 yrs old or unemployment is many fold for blacks, spare you western action in Angola, Kongo and and and .. Racism was what happened in Abu Ghoreib (spare you the pictures) .. argument could be made America would never drop 2 nuke on German civilian like did to Japan.

Saying races should keep to each other to represent their interest has no negative prejudice .. in fact I look up to Chinese and Japanese and Korean race, same with Blondi :lol:




.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

IMO the 'racism' comes in when one says not to trust the "White" or "fill in the blank" 'race/man/woman' in particular when humans in general are not to be trusted.......


Trust in your own race and you are setting yourself up for an affinity scam.... :evil:
Affinity fraud includes investment frauds that prey upon members of identifiable groups, such as religious or ethnic communities, language minorities, the elderly, or professional groups. The fraudsters who promote affinity scams frequently are – or pretend to be – members of the group. They often enlist respected community or religious leaders from within the group to spread the word about the scheme, by convincing those people that a fraudulent investment is legitimate and worthwhile. Many times, those leaders become unwitting victims of the fraudster's ruse.

These scams exploit the trust and friendship that exist in groups of people who have something in common. Because of the tight-knit structure of many groups, it can be difficult for regulators or law enforcement officials to detect an affinity scam. Victims often fail to notify authorities or pursue their legal remedies, and instead try to work things out within the group. This is particularly true where the fraudsters have used respected community or religious leaders to convince others to join the investment.

Many affinity scams involve "Ponzi schemes" or pyramid schemes, where new investor money is used to make payments to earlier investors to give the illusion that the investment is successful. This ploy is used to trick new investors to invest in the scheme and to lull existing investors into believing their investments are safe and secure. In reality, the fraudster almost always steals investor money for personal use. Both types of schemes depend on an unending supply of new investors; when the inevitable occurs, and the supply of investors dries up, the whole scheme collapses and investors discover that most or all of their money is gone.

Affinity frauds can target any group of people who take pride in their shared characteristics, whether they are religious, ethnic, or professional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affinity_scam

Better to trust God ;-) or doG ;)

In G_d we trust, all other pay cash! ;)

"RACISM" becomes when one has "negative" prejudice, looks down, to people of other race
there is a reason that overwhelming majority of death rows in America are (innocent) blacks, and most blacks have been in jail at least once before they get even to 20 yrs old or unemployment is many fold for blacks,
What happens when one has negative prejudice towards people of your own 'race' ;) ... Chris Rock being a notable example.

6tkZuLixZOk



In any case, I suspect that over time, race will me less and less in Uz as we intermarry more and more...

Seeing it in my family/clan........

Maybe we Uz will become a new hybrid 'race'/breed...... The Mongrel ;) Race :twisted: :lol:

America would never drop 2 nuke on German civilian like did to Japan.
Interesting question.........

FWIW I quite suspect that Germany would have used nukes on US/Uz with the proposed winged version of the V2 if Germany had been able to build the bomb in time....... IIRC...

99.9% Certain that Hitler would have used nukes on the Russians..... Unless the wind was blowing toward Germany.


Remembering how close we came to nuking the Russians during the Cold War & the Russians to nuking US, I suspect we might have......... :shock:


Recalling a novel in which Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto get their hands on a stolen nuke and engage the detonator even though they will be killed too... Blind Samson in the Temple of Dagon... :o

And blind Samson slew more enemies with his death than he had in his life. :shock:
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Endovelico
Posts: 3038
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Re: Japan v China

Post by Endovelico »

China General Says "War With Japan Increasingly Likely"
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/03/2014 17:02 -0400

(...)

A retired People's Liberation Army senior officer says a war with Japan over territorial disputes is becoming increasingly likely and that China is more than capable of defending itself. Other military experts are not convinced the PLA would win any future conflict, despite China's military build-up and modernisation.

Some cite the PLA's lack of battle experience as well as technological weaknesses in certain areas, aircraft engines for example, that could hinder the PLA's fighting capability.

China and Japan moved closer to armed conflict after Beijing established its first air defence identification zone last November in the East China Sea to include the disputed Diaoyu islands, known as the Senkakus in Japan, Major General Luo Yuan said.

"China should remain in a high state of vigilance because Japan has a history of manufacturing small incidents to trigger military conflict," Luo said.

Luo, a vice-president of a Beijing-based think tank of retired military officers, the China Strategy Culture Promotion Association, dismissed suggestions in some Japanese media reports that the country had air combat superiority because its pilots and crews had greater experience and training.

"That conclusion is a deceptive tactic used by Japan to confuse the public," he said. The PLA has deployed its most advanced aircraft and logistical support to military bases along China's southeast coast, a move designed to show that the army is prepared for any military conflict in the area.

"So far, all aircraft sent by both countries to the Diaoyu waters have been third-generation fighter jets. The PLA's newest and most advanced planes entered service at the turn of this century, including the J-10, J-11B and the [Russian-made] Su-27," said Luo.

"In contrast, Japan has deployed to the region only about 30 F-15Js, which their air force has used since the 1980s."

Luo declined to say how many fighter jets the PLA would mobilise in an armed conflict. He said China had an overwhelming advantage in the number and types of aircraft available.

"China has several military airports along the southeast coast that could provide effective logistical support to PLA fighter jets because those air force bases are much closer to the Diaoyus," he said.

"But in Japan, there is just one airport close to the Diaoyus: Naha airport in Okinawa."

While it is quite clear, what is most disturbing about this story is just how much thought has gone into this analysis:

Canada-based magazine Kanwa Asian Defence said the PLA's missile strategic force had deployed its S-300 long-range surface-to-air missile batteries at bases in Fujian since 2012.

Ni Lexiong , director of a defence policy research centre at the Shanghai University of Political Science and Law, said he was not convinced the PLA would have the upper hand in any conflict.

"It's a fact that China's logistical support near the Diaoyus is better than Japan's because military bases in Fujian and Zhejiang province have been ready for war with Taiwan since the 1950s," he said. "But we shouldn't ignore the Americans, who would play a decisive role in any armed conflict between China and Japan."

Macau-based military observer Antony Wong Dong said that if hostilities did break out with Japan, all military bases and facilities on land and sea would be targets for bombing.

"China has more fighter jets than Japan, but one Japanese pilot is probably equivalent to at least three PLA pilots due to their intensive training and joint drills with the US air force," he said.

And the bigest question mark: does China believe the US would step in to defend Japan? "Luo argued the US would not intervene in any conflict."

If China indeed believes this, then the probability of an armed conflict with Japan over whatever pretext, is far higher than the experts - ostensibly the same experts who said the probability of Russia annexing Crimea is non-existant - believe.

Finally, those wondering how to hedge a possible war between China and Japan, it should be quite clear that in a world in which the durian market is governed by HFT algos which take any flashing red headline, even if it says *TOKYO BOMBED, ABE SAYS DEFLATION AMONG THE RUINS, and trade it as bullish, ramp stocks to record highs, and where central planning has made a terminal mockery of price discovery, the best and only strategy is to buy deep out of the money calls just in case World War III does indeed break out.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-0 ... drill-near
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