What odds China + India = Love

[Ibrahim]

Both India and esp China have been constrained to-date by the Pax Americana.

You're going too far with this last point. The US doesn't, and cannot, prevent China or India from doing anything. If they could Chiang Kai-shek would be lying in that tomb in Beijing, not Mao, and India wouldn't have the bomb. The US and all of NATO fought China to a draw in Korea in the 50's. That's the pinnacle of Pax Americana success in Asia.

The US efforts to constrain China and India have all been in the form of payoffs. Arming Taiwan to the teeth, and paying off the Punjabi officer caste in Pakistan to pretend to by a US-friendly regime and not openly make waves with India.

Except that Taiwan might actually vote to reunify with China in a decade or two, making all of that money a waste, and the failed US war in Afghanistan has destabilized Pakistan to the point where that decades-long US investment is voided.

[monster_gardener]

Both India and esp China have been constrained to-date by the Pax Americana.

You're going too far with this last point. The US doesn't, and cannot, prevent China or India from doing anything. If they could Chiang Kai-shek would be lying in that tomb in Beijing, not Mao, and India wouldn't have the bomb. The US and all of NATO fought China to a draw in Korea in the 50's. That's the pinnacle of Pax Americana success in Asia.

The US efforts to constrain China and India have all been in the form of payoffs. Arming Taiwan to the teeth, and paying off the Punjabi officer caste in Pakistan to pretend to by a US-friendly regime and not openly make waves with India.

Except that Taiwan might actually vote to reunify with China in a decade or two, making all of that money a waste, and the failed US war in Afghanistan has destabilized Pakistan to the point where that decades-long US investment is voided.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim

That's the pinnacle of Pax Americana success in Asia.

It is certainly one of the pinnacles..... Keeping South Korea out of the clutches of the Evil Vile Kim ILL family is a major star in the Statue of Liberty's crown.

Another pinnacle, would be the rebuilding of Japan...... Helping the Japanese to channel their immense talents into business, science & culture in a peaceful democratic society that produces outstanding people like our esteemed host, Typhoon.........

Except that Taiwan might actually vote to reunify with China in a decade or two, making all of that money a waste

If Taiwan & China peacefully reunify under terms that preserve the free democratic culture that AIUI Taiwan now enjoys and ideally spread to China itself.......... I would consider that another major Pax America success...........

paying off the Punjabi officer caste in Pakistan to pretend to by a US-friendly regime and not openly make waves with India.

If US/Uz influence has restrained Pakistan from fulfilling Ali Bhutto's dream of nuking India........... then that is a success for America & the World IMVHO...........

and the failed US war in Afghanistan has destabilized Pakistan to the point where that decades-long US investment is voided.

Unfortunately that is probably very nearly correct............

Truly a waste...... Democratic Imperial Hubris as bad or worse than Ancient Athens had......... We/Uz had managed with the Germans, Japanese and Koreans ........... didn't consider how much harder it would be with the Muslim meme.........

When the Tallywackers failed to turn over their alleged "guest", it was time for Jacksonian Break & Leave*..... Catch & kill Oslima and as many of his land pirate buds as possible....... "Chastise severely" the Tallywackers for not keeping their dog of a "guest" on a leash if the Wackers weren't involved themselves.........

THEN leave....... Don't waste trillions on "nation building".......... Leave....... Let them reinstall the King who had done a decent job until his thrice damned cousin cozied up with the Soviets....... Or let them merrily murder each other...... Could leave some ordinary arms behind (NO STINGERS this time please!!!) for the Northern Alliance to use to Whack the Wackers but in general just leave an inscriptions in Arabic/English & whatever.......... A new "Rosetta Stone" saying DON'T MAKE US COME OVER HERE AGAIN........

*a.k.a.... "Don't Make Me Come Over There or It's Gonna Be Milo Time"

[Carbizene]

Zheng He (1371–1433; simplified Chinese: 郑和; traditional Chinese: 鄭和; pinyin: Zhèng Hé), also known as Ma Sanbao (simplified Chinese: 马三宝; traditional Chinese: 馬三寶) and Hajji Mahmud Shamsuddin (Persian: حاجی محمود شمس الدين‎) was a Hui-Chinese mariner, explorer, diplomat and fleet admiral, who commanded voyages to Southeast Asia, South Asia, the Middle East, East Africa, and the Horn of Africa collectively referred to as the Voyages of Zheng He or Voyages of Cheng Ho from 1405 to 1433.

My understanding of Zheng He's fleet is that Ships used the sectional design, where partitions in the hull lowered the risk of sinking by isolating a breach to flooding only part of the hull, of course not water tight as seen in titanic and recently, still a stunning expression of Chinese tech while my middle ancestors were still figuring out how to wipe their arse and not die.

Apparently the information Zheng He brought back from his travels was so offensive the Chinese burnt the boats, burnt the maps and said genuflect you later. I think consciously isolating themselves from a particularly virulent information virus. Cleverly so as 400 years later when this virus did appear in China it killed 25 million in the Taiping rebellion.

[Carbizene]

The US efforts to constrain China and India have all been in the form of payoffs. Arming Taiwan to the teeth, and paying off the Punjabi officer caste in Pakistan to pretend to by a US-friendly regime and not openly make waves with India.

These payoff's have reached a nadir in the form of the TPSP.

[Carbizene]

It is certainly one of the pinnacles..... Keeping South Korea out of the clutches of the Evil Vile Kim ILL family is a major star in the Statue of Liberty's crown.

Another pinnacle, would be the rebuilding of Japan...... Helping the Japanese to channel their immense talents into business, science & culture in a peaceful democratic society that produces outstanding people like our esteemed host, Typhoon.........

Keeping Ill Jong in his box is a great if somewhat circular achievement but regards Japan..err ..cough cough..there was two Nuclear bombs dropped which were the result of gunboat Diplomacy since the 1850's..so Japan's not really on the plus side, like shooting somebody and then driving them to the Hospital doesn't really make oneself a nice guy.

[monster_gardener]

It is certainly one of the pinnacles..... Keeping South Korea out of the clutches of the Evil Vile Kim ILL family is a major star in the Statue of Liberty's crown.

Another pinnacle, would be the rebuilding of Japan...... Helping the Japanese to channel their immense talents into business, science & culture in a peaceful democratic society that produces outstanding people like our esteemed host, Typhoon.........

Keeping Ill Jong in his box is a great if somewhat circular achievement but regards Japan..err ..cough cough..there was two Nuclear bombs dropped which were the result of gunboat Diplomacy since the 1850's..so Japan's not really on the plus side, like shooting somebody and then driving them to the Hospital doesn't really make oneself a nice guy.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Carbizene.

Japan started the fight with US/Uz striking the first blood......so IMVHO its more like getting into a gun fight with another gun fighter and then taking him to the hospital.....

BUT..........the nuclear bombing of Japan was a real tragedy........ Especially the second bomb on Nagasaki the most western friendly city in Japan for centuries......... Wish we/US/Uz had had a bit more patience........ Allowed more time for surrender...........AIUI the advice was that a demo bombing on a deserted place would not have worked ....... I tend to disagree.... Remember Oppenheimer quoting that Hindu poem after the Trinity test IIRC "I am become Death the shatterer of worlds".......... Remembering how even after 2 bombs, some of the nut case nationalists tried to overthrow Hirohito when he surrendered........ MAYBE the first bomb could be justified......... Wish it had been done somewhere else........ Iwo Jima for example.... or better yet the Fuhrer Bunker in Berlin a few months earlier IMVHO deserved it a LOT more......

Maybe could have saved lives like Anne Frank and Admiral Canaris...... But AIUI the bombs were not yet ready........

Perhaps could have been worse....... If the bombs had not been ready until much......... Operation Olympic might have be implemented....... And if the Japanese had resisted like they did on Okinawa......... 1 million + US/Oz/Brit casualties, millions more the Japanese..... How many artists and inventors gone from this timeline .......... And probably the Russians would have invaded in the North.... Probably would have gotten Hokkaido and half of Honshu instead of just stealing the Kuril Islands....... North Japan and South Japan..... Suspect that all of Korea might be under the Kim Ills.............

[Carbizene]

Japan started the fight with US/Uz striking the first blood......so IMVHO its more like getting into a gun fight with another gun fighter and then taking him to the hospital.....

The battles between 41 and 45 were the final curtain on the war started in 1854 by Commodore Perry and his Black ships.

[monster_gardener]

Japan started the fight with US/Uz striking the first blood......so IMVHO its more like getting into a gun fight with another gun fighter and then taking him to the hospital.....

The battles between 41 and 45 were the final curtain on the war started in 1854 by Commodore Perry and his Black ships.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Carbizene.

That is a different way to look at it. Will try to consider.

IIRC, one of the reasons that we/US/Uz went to Japan was to get better treatment for shipwrecked sailors especially Whalers...... tended to end up without heads......

One reason the mission to Japan succeeded was that the Japanese knew the jig was up on isolation........ They still had communication with the outside world through the Dutch and Chinese at Nagasaki........ even sent out scouting missions to IIRC Europe......

Also remembering the case of a Japanese fisherboy who got blown out to sea by a storm..... Was picked up by an American ship and virtually adopted by the Captain..... Went to America, got education/training......... but insisted on going back even though the death penalty was in effect for Japanese who left Japan for ANY reason without permission and returned......... Was still pre Perry but the Japanese authorities knew they needed what he knew so he was allowed to live and prospered quite well...........

Consulting the web........... Got it right........ Heart warming story.......... Poor fisher boy makes good and does good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakahama_Manjir%C5%8D


Rambling............ Similar things happened with some Chinese........... Have read that many Chinese made it to the Boston area and married Irish immigrant girls........... We Uz are a sometimes merry mixture......... Hitler considered Uz mongrels.......... Half black...... Half Jewish..... He didn't know the half of it......... Often we Uz forget/want to forget it too*......... Not English purebreds.... even though sometimes we more or less look it*.....and more or less speak the language............. What is it? Merkin....... Merican....... UhMeriKun.....

"In some places, English completely disappears
In America, it hasn't been spoken for years!"

from "My Fair Lady"

Also happens in Nigeria ..............



*Remembering an Okra** Show.......Sorry....... have a green thumb/mind Oprah Show about who's black (by racist standards) and may or may not know it..........

**Great plant BTW........ Beautiful Hibiscus flower that turns into an edible seed pod...... can be pickled ........ leaves can be eaten too..

[Ibrahim]

Japanese Imperialism was their own copy of 19th century European colonialism, but their eventual collision with the US and (in hindsight) inevitable destruction as a result was part of the war that created this hyperpowered American military that made any talk of a "Pax Americana" possible. The entire incident precedes so alleged "Pax Americana" era.

As for Commodore Perry, certainly that was a jerk move but Japanese adoption of Western technology afterwards was enthusiastic. As it had been when they adopted firearms from the Dutch and Portuguese prior to sealing themselves off in the 17th century.

[Carbizene]

Interesting that both China and Japan tried to cut themselves off but the peaceful Abrahamites are so peace loving they threatened to destroy both nations if they did not join the peaceful Arms/Industrial complex.

[Ibrahim]

Interesting that both China and Japan tried to cut themselves off but the peaceful Abrahamites are so peace loving they threatened to destroy both nations if they did not join the peaceful Arms/Industrial complex.

The Japanese were pretty busy chopping each other (and some Koreans) up during their period of isolation. The Qing were also pressing China to its largest ever imperial borders via conquest during the same period.

[Carbizene]

yeah it was the Koreans dumb enough to rock up on Japanese soil, they weren't running around the world slaughtering all those who didn't believe in their invisible man.

[monster_gardener]

Interesting that both China and Japan tried to cut themselves off but the peaceful Abrahamites are so peace loving they threatened to destroy both nations if they did not join the peaceful Arms/Industrial complex.

The Japanese were pretty busy chopping each other (and some Koreans) up during their period of isolation. The Qing were also pressing China to its largest ever imperial borders via conquest during the same period.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

The Japanese were pretty busy chopping each other

True to a large extent. The Samurai had the right to cut down peasants, artisans and the even more despised merchants & Eta etc. who did not get out of the way when they passed... IIRC 'kirsute gomen' = "cutting and going" although laws were passed against this sometimes such as IIRC the 100 article Code on Shikoku.......

After Japan emerged from isolation, this happened at least once to a European IIRC who didn't bow fast enough.......

Tax rates were horrendous....... Up to 90% of the rice harvest IIRC....... AIUI many peasant revolts involved a sacrificial old peasant placing a petition for lower taxes into the sedan chair of the feudal lord when he passed by ...........

Very bad to be a recalcitrant Christian too: could get you tortured and crucified literally........ Crypto-Christians took to hiding a cross on the Buddhist rosary carried by Kwannon the Goddess of Mercy/Bodhisattva of Compassion.... who strongly resembles the Virgin Mary down to frequently carrying a child in Her arms.......

But AIUI the Tokugawa period is also remembered as a time of peace and prosperity....... Didn't have the major wars of the Ashikaga & earlier periods.........

(and some Koreans) up during their period of isolation.

Regarding chopping of Koreans... also shooting etc........ I believe that technically that happened right before the period of isolation under the Tokugawas....when Hideyoshi invaded Korea......... Initially Hideyoshi wanted the Koreans to join with him to conquer China but his ambassador botched the negotiations...... Maybe the Koreans would have done as well to ally with the Japanese..... by the end of the war the Chinese allies were causing as much damage in Korea as the Japanese..

Also happened much earlier when the Japanese Empress Jingo also invaded Korea........

Though any Korean captives & descendants still in Japan under the Tokugawas would have been just as subject to the Samurai as native Japanese..... soooo maybe you are right there too .......


To be fair to the Japanese, Korea under the command of the Mongols invaded Japan unsuccessfully thanks in large part to the Kamikaze Divine Windstorm which wrecked the fleet........ Still remember an illustration of what happened to Japanese inhabitants of the small islands that were captured in the invasion: dead men & women hanging by their hands on the sides of the boats of the invasion fleet....

I'm sure, our esteemed host, Typhoon, can add to or correct on this if I have got anything wrong.........

[monster_gardener]

yeah it was the Koreans dumb enough to rock up on Japanese soil, they weren't running around the world slaughtering all those who didn't believe in their invisible man.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Carbizene.

Korea has suffered many sorrows......... Often gotten it from both sides......... Right now is a fairly good example of Hell and Working toward Heaven right on the border with each other........

Christianity has a very imperfect record......... Remembering a bumper sticker.......Jesus protect me from your followers..... Tooo Often True ....... but IMHO that is much less so now than in the past........ Hopefully will stay that way unless Gary North or the like manages to ride high.... Need to try to make sure that does NOT happen........ NO Handmaids for you, Gary

But right now, the Hell side of the Korean Border is the one that does NOT believe in an Invisible Man....... Believes in the latest Man-God Ill Kim dynast.... Believes or else Hell on Earth becomes even more real ...... Similar has happened before Egypt, Inca Peru, Rome**, Soviet Russia, Maoist China.......

The Working (however imperfectly*) Toward Heaven side of Korea believes more and more in an "Invisible Man" of the "Abrahamic" tradition or "Invisible Men" or "Invisible Women" of the Buddhist or Traditional tradition

IMVHO they are better for it ....... the morality of Jesus or Buddha/Kwan Eom IMVHO is superior to Kim Ill version of Dialectical Materialism...

Remembering a speech by former Senator Danforth of Missouri......"No King but King Jesus" ......... At first it bothered me........
But when dealing with a God-King like Kim ILL whatever, it starts to make sense....... No human I know qualifies to be G_d-King.

The temptation to a King in times of chaos is easy to understand......... My CERT Instructor said that in a crisis many people become followers...... they want some one to tell them what to do........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_ ... ponse_team

But IIRC you have warned about the corruption of absolute power...... Even Gandalf had to turn down the offer of the One Ring to save himself..

So no King but King Jesus is not a bad idea... He's not here yet... Soooooo NO KING........Be very careful of anybody who claims to be Him.. Or to speak for Him....... AIUI the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet are supposed to get here before Jesus does......

NOTE: These days, Kings usually do not carry the honest title of "Rex (king)" to warn you that they can wreck things as bad or worse than a revived Tyrannosaurus Rex ......... More usually they have the title President (often for Life) or Chairman......... Indeed the "kings" who actually are called Kings and Queens are often the less dangerous ones.... have more limits and traditions to restrain serious misbehavior and mayhem..... Much depends on the individual: good or bad...... Occasionally do something good like the King of Denmark during WW2 or the King of Afghanistan before things went to Hell there more than once........ Sometimes a King can be better than the Chaos of civil war.......... Sometimes it's a close call which may be chosen wrong......... Syria is such a case for me.... Bad but what follows likely to be worse........

Other recent cases of good "kings" without the name IMVHO would be Mustafa Kemal Ataturk in Turkey and Lee Kuan Yew in Singapore......

*Need to be kinder to dog persons and cat persons for example ......

**The Romans usually waited till after death and sometimes had a sense of humor about it.. Vespasian: "I think I'm becoming a god!"

[Typhoon]

twuSlVTZLY4

Nonetheless, the past shapes the present and the future . . .

China Boosts Military Spending in Unfriendly ‘Neighborhood’

Off-Budget Items
Taylor Fravel, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who studies China’s relations with its neighbors, said the number of off-budget items such has foreign arms procurement have decreased in recent years. China includes support for veterans in its budget while the U.S. does not, Fravel said.

While Chinese military spending is still officially less than a fifth of U.S. defense spending, its neighbors are concerned about the country’s expansive territorial claims. China claims indisputable sovereignty over the islands, reefs and shoals of the South China Sea and their surrounding waters, demarcating a tongue-shaped claim on Chinese maps extending hundreds of miles from mainland China.

China is “always ready” to use force if necessary to ensure its territorial integrity in the South China Sea, Maj. Gen. Luo Yan, deputy secretary general of the Chinese Academy of Military Science, said today. China’s military should be “strong and big,” and the country should do more to mark its rightful claim to the area, he told reporters in Beijing.

‘Scared Its Neighbors’
It also contests control over the Senkaku, or Diaoyu islands with Japan, which sparked a diplomatic standoff in 2010 after Japan detained a Chinese fishing boat captain when his vessel collided with a Japanese patrol boat. Japan is “closely watching” China’s military spending and is seeking greater transparency in its outlays, Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura told reporters today in Tokyo.

Vietnam recently filed a protest saying China assaulted its fishermen and prevented them from entering the Paracel Islands. China responded by claiming sovereignty over the islands and said it didn’t board the vessels.
“China scared its neighbors,” Saunders said in an e-mail. “Now it is back on the path of greater restraint, but its neighbors are still alarmed.”

U.S. concerns stem from Chinese progress in developing modern fighters and precision ballistic missiles that can target U.S. aircraft carriers, Saunders said.
In the past year, China began sea trials of its first aircraft carrier, a refurbished Soviet-era vessel acquired from Ukraine more than a decade ago.

[Ibrahim]

yeah it was the Koreans dumb enough to rock up on Japanese soil,

Actually it was the other way round.

Chinese military spending is still officially less than a fifth of U.S. defense spending

Unacceptable, America. Build four more carrier groups. U-S-A! U-S-A!

[Carbizene]

yeah it was the Koreans dumb enough to rock up on Japanese soil,

Actually it was the other way round.

from a look at wiki i see there was a Japanese invasion of Korea in 1592-1598 then...

During most of the Edo Period (1603-1867), Japan was closed off to the world, suffered no invasion from the outside, and had virtually no exchange with other countries. For the most part, it was a peaceful period, with almost no war inside the country, and marked a remarkable time of development in the economy and culture of Japan.

So it is fair to say that during Colonialist activity Japan chose not to participate in the pillaging until forced into it by Perry and his pirates so as to be able to repel and compete.

Chinese military spending is still officially less than a fifth of U.S. defense spending

Unacceptable, America. Build four more carrier groups. U-S-A! U-S-A!

I think that China having a secondhand Russian Aircraft Carrier is an unacceptable threat, I agree more CVBG's needed!

An interesting aside into my barbaric ancestors:

Until around 1955, human waste (night soil) was the most important fertilizer source for farmers in Japan. In many parts of Europe, before construction of sewage lines, human waste was simply thrown from the window to the street below, and the plague occurred repeatedly due to bad hygiene conditions. In contrast, in Japan human waste was treated as a valuable resource in those days.

So while my peeps were literally living in their own lavender and dying from it, Japan was utilising it as fertilizer...respect guys..tards.

[Ibrahim]

from a look at wiki i see there was a Japanese invasion of Korea in 1592-1598 then...

That's what I was referring to.

During most of the Edo Period (1603-1867), Japan was closed off to the world, suffered no invasion from the outside, and had virtually no exchange with other countries. For the most part, it was a peaceful period, with almost no war inside the country, and marked a remarkable time of development in the economy and culture of Japan.

So it is fair to say that during Colonialist activity Japan chose not to participate in the pillaging until forced into it by Perry and his pirates so as to be able to repel and compete.

I suppose its true that the Sengoku Jedai and the Imjin War were before their period of isolation, and Edo Japan was pretty peaceful. The only thing I would disagree with is that Japan was "forced" into their colonialist phase. They were enthusiastic about it.


But today every nation is forced to integrate with the global economy to some degree, except North Korea, which is a dump as a result.

[Carbizene]

The only thing I would disagree with is that Japan was "forced" into their colonialist phase. They were enthusiastic about it.

How can you say that Perry's actions were not force? he said open up your closed society and compete with us otherwise we will destroy you, I would say any enthusiasm was derived from an enthusiasm not to be destroyed, they seemed quite happy and successful b4.

But today every nation is forced to integrate with the global economy to some degree, except North Korea, which is a dump as a result.

The ubiquity of a system is no claim to it's legitimacy, just as the Soviets had no claim to legitimacy over Eastern Europe just because they were ubiquitous.

i won't argue that NKorea is a scary dump but the first world living standard is still indicative of a Neo-Colonialism as seen in the re-invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

The current pillaging of Greece by other first worlders can be seen as the Neo-Col's starting to turn on each other like Hyenas during a drought.

[Carbizene]

But right now, the Hell side of the Korean Border is the one that does NOT believe in an Invisible Man....... Believes in the latest Man-God Ill Kim dynast.... Believes or else Hell on Earth becomes even more real ...... Similar has happened before Egypt, Inca Peru, Rome**, Soviet Russia, Maoist China.......

The Working (however imperfectly*) Toward Heaven side of Korea believes more and more in an "Invisible Man" of the "Abrahamic" tradition or "Invisible Men" or "Invisible Women" of the Buddhist or Traditional tradition

IMVHO they are better for it ....... the morality of Jesus or Buddha/Kwan Eom IMVHO is superior to Kim Ill version of Dialectical Materialism...



**The Romans usually waited till after death and sometimes had a sense of humor about it.. Vespasian: "I think I'm becoming a god!"

It all depends on perspective, there were 500 nations in Australia before Cook arrived, they have been pretty much wiped from the face of the Earth, in Tasmania it was annihilation...they sure aren't better off for it.

[Ibrahim]

The only thing I would disagree with is that Japan was "forced" into their colonialist phase. They were enthusiastic about it.

How can you say that Perry's actions were not force? he said open up your closed society and compete with us otherwise we will destroy you, I would say any enthusiasm was derived from an enthusiasm not to be destroyed, they seemed quite happy and successful b4.

Perry's actions were force, but the the following decades Japan enthusiastically modernized and adopted Western technology.

But today every nation is forced to integrate with the global economy to some degree, except North Korea, which is a dump as a result.

The ubiquity of a system is no claim to it's legitimacy,

Legitimacy isn't an issue in this case. The point is that, though historically there have been some contented and prosperous "hermit states," today there is no example of one.

[Carbizene]

Perry's actions were force, but the the following decades Japan enthusiastically modernized and adopted Western technology.

So, somehow their success makes the original act of Piracy ok? what were they supposed to do some sort of half arsed approach that would leave them vunerable to actions such as the annexation of Hong Kong.

Then look at the 30's blockade of Japan, another act of piracy, justified after Japans invasion of China which Japan did to protect itself from Colonialist expansion, the double standards in that the Pirates were carving up the globe at the same and the idea that provocation is no factor represents a split from reality.

The Pirate nation was only protecting its interests in the blockade of Japan just as it is doing today with the TPSP.

The 30's blockade is rather funny as the Pirates found out the Japanese were rather good at the Piracy game and decided they didn't want them to play any more, I think Narcissim is the correct Psychological term, this can still be seen today with the Pirates demanding their sky boat returned after the Iranians boarded it in their airspace, truly delusional, another symptom of mental illness.

[Ibrahim]

Perry's actions were force, but the the following decades Japan enthusiastically modernized and adopted Western technology.

So, somehow their success makes the original act of Piracy ok?

I'm not commenting on the morality of either action. I'm just observing that Japan was enthusiastic about adopting Western technology and methods during and after the Meiji Restoration. This follows from my original observation that Japanese Imperialism was their version of European colonialism.

what were they supposed to do some sort of half arsed approach that would leave them vunerable to actions such as the annexation of Honk Kong.

Hong Kong was largely uninhabited at the time of the Opium Wars. The greater concession at the time was Shamain Island in Guaungzhou. But I digress.

Then look at the blockade of Japan, another act of piracy, justified after Japans invasion of China which Japan did to protect itself from Western Colonialist expansion,

How did any of Japan's wars with China (dating back to the 1890's) do anything to protect Japan from the West? Japan had allied itself with Western powers through a series of formal treaties well before the oil embargo (which is what I assume you mean by "blockade").

the double standards in that the West was carving up the globe at the same and the idea that provocation is no factor represents a split from reality.

Provocation of of whom, by whom? Not clear what line you can draw from Commodore Perry to the Rape of Nanking. One is America's fault, the other is clearly Japan's fault.

[Azrael]

And Commodore Perry didn't murder any Japanese. Unfortunately, one can't say the same thing about the Japanese military at the Rape of Nanking.

[Carbizene]

This follows from my original observation that Japanese Imperialism was their version of European colonialism.

Japan was forced into this Imperialism by the pirates carving up territory all around them that would leave them a vassal state that supplied the pirates with cheap crockery if they did not act to counter. The pirates had proven they would use force to get their way with Japan via Perry's actions thus Japan had to act in se3lf defence, last time i heard that was legal, unlike Piracy.

Hong Kong was largely uninhabited at the time of the Opium Wars. The greater concession at the time was Shamain Island in Guaungzhou. But I digress.

So what.. it doesn't mean that bunch of Pirates can turn up and turn it into a base.

How did any of Japan's wars with China (dating back to the 1890's) do anything to protect Japan from the West? Japan had allied itself with Western powers through a series of formal treaties well before the oil embargo (which is what I assume you mean by "blockade").

refer to opening paragraph.

the double standards in that the West was carving up the globe at the same and the idea that provocation is no factor represents a split from reality.

Provocation of of whom, by whom? Not clear what line you can draw from Commodore Perry to the Rape of Nanking. One is America's fault, the other is clearly Japan's fault.

The Oil blockade of Japan was an act of war, as it has been throughout the centuries but we are so accustomed to Piracy now we don't see it as that anymore.