The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Zack Morris » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:44 pm

Typhoon wrote:
Zack Morris wrote:HRCs support correlated with educational attainment. The Trump Davidians are the ones exhibiting the group think: culturally homogeneous, poorly educated, and poorly traveled.


Oh?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... exit-polls

Among the more startling data to emerge from the [exit] polls:

White voters, who make up 69% of the total, voted 58% for Trump and 37% for Clinton. Non-white voters, who make up 31% of the electorate, voted 74% for Clinton and 21% for Trump.

White men opted 63% for Trump and 31% for Clinton; white women voted 53% for Trump and 43% for Clinton.

Among non-college-educated whites, 67% voted for Trump – 72% of men and 62% of women.

Among college-educated whites, 45% voted for Clinton – 39% of men and 51% of women (the only white demographic represented in the poll where the former secretary of state came out on top).

But 54% of male college graduates voted for Trump, as did 45% of female college graduates.

More 18- to 29-year-old whites voted for Trump (48%) than Clinton (43%).

And this is The Grauniad.

Apparently the accurate details will not be known until the US Census Board completes crunching the numbers.

The regressive-progressive stereotypes regarding Trump voters do not hold up under examination.


Sorry, but the regressive stereotype absolutely holds up: Education, Not Income, Predicted Who Would Vote For Trump

If you traveled the country as extensively as I do, you would immediately grasp the difference between Clinton-leaning and Trump-leaning regions. Your shallow, surface-level statistics are insufficient to build a picture of who these voters actually are.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Zack Morris » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:12 pm

Simple Minded wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:I just returned from a few days in Brooklyn and the level of groupthink in NYC is astounding. There is also TV news everywhere. I can see how it might explain how HRC only got support in a few deep but isolated population islands.


Yep. The NYC effect is a thing of beauty. I think the water supply is doped. Not so much of a group think, in my experience, but of a religious cult of arrogance, superiority, general hatred of humanity, and condescension. I think it is peer pressure and cosmic justice.

“So, what brought you to NYC?” “Karma!”

I recall a conversation with my niece after she spent a couple years in NYC. She was telling me about a movie she watched, Inglorious Basterds. She was using all the intellectual, artsy-fartsy, verbiage one would expect from a professional movie critic, then closed with “but I don’t think people living outside of NYC will be smart enough to understand this movie.” A couple years after she moved to Italy, I reminded her of her NYC worldliness. She replied “I said THAT? REALLY? Oh well, that’s what living in NYC will do to you!” The same person who informed me that the word “oriental” was considered racist term by enlightened people.

I recall another conversation with a friend who has lived in multiple cities. I told him “now that you live on Long Island, you’re more of an asshole than when you lived in Monroe County, but much, much, less of an asshole than when you lived in NYC.” He got quiet for a minute, then laughed and said, “You’re absolutely right. If you’re not an asshole when you get to NYC, you will learn how to become one shortly. No place I have ever lived brings out the asshole in humanity like NYC.”

This is stereotyping, of course, which is not always true (but true for 60-80% of the people I know who have lived in NYC & elsewhere). True often enough that Hollywood, and comedians have pushed it as a theme for decades. Middle Americans are nice, trustworthy, salt of the Earth types, NYCers are miserable, crooked, dog-eat-dog, self-centered bastards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A27PQDn2AAQ

Nonc, next time you’re in NYC, if you really want to screw with their heads, use terms like “please,” “thank you,” and hold the door for people behind you. It will trigger them to the edge of insanity. ;)

Personally, I love it. Celebrate diversity. American culture? Really? Which Zipcode?

Altruistic PSA (for the rubes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wFFLBcfPIc


Middle Americans are salt of the earth people if and only if you've been shaped with the same cookie cutter mold. They have delicate sensibilities and must be engaged in a politically correct manner. Their insularity inhibits them from reciprocating that sort of empathetic treatment to others. In their world view, being respectful of the sensitivities of others is "political correctness" run amok.

The bad rap New Yorkers get stems primarily from two sources: 1) the day-to-day stress of going about one's business in a crowded, noisy place. People routinely blow their lids. But then they move on. Strangers in need will find New Yorkers to always be ready to help. They're comfortable with random social interaction.

A second, legitimate deficiency of New York culture is 2) the aggressive, dog-eat-dog, scamming and corner-cutting business culture of which Donald Trump is a perfect example. It's really just Middle America on steroids. Middle Americans glorify wealth over moral virtue and education. They dream not of bettering themselves, but of amassing wealth and living an essentially unchanged lifestyle, only on a grander scale.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:43 am

Are you out of Kleenex.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:55 am

Lol 538. That guy has been wrong about everything for years.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Doc » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:24 am

Zack Morris wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Zack Morris wrote:HRCs support correlated with educational attainment. The Trump Davidians are the ones exhibiting the group think: culturally homogeneous, poorly educated, and poorly traveled.


Oh?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... exit-polls

Among the more startling data to emerge from the [exit] polls:

White voters, who make up 69% of the total, voted 58% for Trump and 37% for Clinton. Non-white voters, who make up 31% of the electorate, voted 74% for Clinton and 21% for Trump.

White men opted 63% for Trump and 31% for Clinton; white women voted 53% for Trump and 43% for Clinton.

Among non-college-educated whites, 67% voted for Trump – 72% of men and 62% of women.

Among college-educated whites, 45% voted for Clinton – 39% of men and 51% of women (the only white demographic represented in the poll where the former secretary of state came out on top).

But 54% of male college graduates voted for Trump, as did 45% of female college graduates.

More 18- to 29-year-old whites voted for Trump (48%) than Clinton (43%).

And this is The Grauniad.

Apparently the accurate details will not be known until the US Census Board completes crunching the numbers.

The regressive-progressive stereotypes regarding Trump voters do not hold up under examination.


Sorry, but the regressive stereotype absolutely holds up: Education, Not Income, Predicted Who Would Vote For Trump

If you traveled the country as extensively as I do, you would immediately grasp the difference between Clinton-leaning and Trump-leaning regions. Your shallow, surface-level statistics are insufficient to build a picture of who these voters actually are.


First it main factor in how people voted was where they are from As someone that travels extensively I can tell you that travelers only get only a superficial view of who the locals are.Anyone the feels otherwise needs to check their arrogance
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Simple Minded » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:57 am

Zack Morris wrote:
Middle Americans are salt of the earth people if and only if you've been shaped with the same cookie cutter mold. They have delicate sensibilities and must be engaged in a politically correct manner. Their insularity inhibits them from reciprocating that sort of empathetic treatment to others. In their world view, being respectful of the sensitivities of others is "political correctness" run amok.

The bad rap New Yorkers get stems primarily from two sources: 1) the day-to-day stress of going about one's business in a crowded, noisy place. People routinely blow their lids. But then they move on. Strangers in need will find New Yorkers to always be ready to help. They're comfortable with random social interaction.

A second, legitimate deficiency of New York culture is 2) the aggressive, dog-eat-dog, scamming and corner-cutting business culture of which Donald Trump is a perfect example. It's really just Middle America on steroids. Middle Americans glorify wealth over moral virtue and education. They dream not of bettering themselves, but of amassing wealth and living an essentially unchanged lifestyle, only on a grander scale.


amen baby! that's the aspect of group identity and stereotyping I find fascinating. Our strongest norms get inculcated during our formative years. Yet, continual exposure over a period of time, can largely reformat our BIOS, yet the influence of the early years remains to some extent. Not at all difficult to see how a non-NYC could see NYCers as more racist, sexist, nastier, etc, simply because "those people aren't acting right." Or vice versa.

Move to the big city and build your fortune and get off on the adrenaline rush. Later in life, after you got yours, drop out of the rat-race. as we said in the 70's different strokes for different folks.

"Fuhgetaboutit" and "f**kem if they can't take a joke" can be interpreted as both enlightened perspective and shallow disdain for others. Just depends on whether you are on the receiving end or the giving end. :)

Best of all, you can never determine if you are a racist, bigot, NYCers, kind, shallow, or simple minded, only the observer gets to make that call.

It all gets really amusing when one talks about society, and tribes, rather than individuals.
Experts differ on data interpretation........
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Simple Minded » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:07 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I have always found NY'ers to be exceptionally polite, outgoing and personal. Lots of pleasant banter in interactions.

Brooklyn especially. Manhattan can be like a crowded public swimming pool, but that is friendly too in it's own way.


Face to face, and given a few seconds when you can look the other person in the eye, everybody seems much human and easy to relate to. High population density regions do not often allow that cushion of social contact. In the rapid fire assessment of emotion response, humans seem to grasp for group identity explanations. Which always more accurately reflect the opinions, tastes, and bigotry of the observer, rather than the person observed.

I got "insulted" by someone! Quick search for my assessment of their religion, race, sex, regional origin, political affiliation, nationality, etc. to explain my hurt feelings. Their negative response couldn't have been due to my actions..... and we all know my interpretations are always the "correct" interpretations. It's defined in my BIOS.

I'm broke down by the side of the road in my Beemer, are the people who gawk and drive by racists, sexists, my-chosen-group-identity-o-phobes, UAW members? I don't have a clue......... accessing stored data.........
Experts differ on data interpretation........
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:41 pm

Educational attainment is a function of economic independence and has nothing to do with wisdom.

Educational attainment means one had the resources necessary to become overspecialized. Wisdom comes from real world experiences across all strata. The highly educated often do not have those experiences (ivory tower syndrome).

Educational attainment often creates a Dunning-Krueger effect where the highly educated assume they are wise and of universally superior intellect. They discount their own ability to make poor judgments and do not recognize and adapt when they are wrong.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:45 pm

My suspicion is that the end of the MSM is largely a function of cable cutters and the internet displacing cable news and newspapers and has little to do with politics. Broadcast networks and broadsheet rags have simply failed to adapt.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Typhoon » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:48 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:My suspicion is that the end of the MSM is largely a function of cable cutters and the internet displacing cable news and newspapers and has little to do with politics. Broadcast networks and broadsheet rags have simply failed to adapt.


Firing anyone with depth of experience, a knowledge of history, a sense of perspective, and an understanding of context has not helped.

Especially as they seem to have been replaced with kids who come across as not knowing anything beyond their postmodern college indoctrination.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Mr. Perfect » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:32 am

Polls show that it has much to do with politics over cord cutting. Trust in MSM is at all time lows as the country votes overwhelmingly GOP at state, local, fed levels while MSM content is hysterically Democrat agitprop. The drift from broadcast/print to internet has been going on for almost 20 years, nothing special in that regard happened last november. What has happened is the campaign and election of Trump radicalized the media to levels never before dreamed of. And it has killed them.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Zack Morris » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:29 am

If by killing them you mean propelling their ratings to new highs, sure. Media companies are nothing if not adaptable.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Typhoon » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:03 am

Zack Morris wrote:If by killing them you mean propelling their ratings to new highs, sure. Media companies are nothing if not adaptable.


Are you certain you read the article before linking it?

A new USA Today/Suffolk University poll released Thursday found that Trump’s approval rating stands at 42 percent while his disapproval rating stands at 53 percent — an ll-point gap.


However, in a twist of irony, the same survey also polled how favorable or unfavorable America views the media.

It turns out, according to the USA Today/Suffolk University poll, that Americans dislike the media more than they do the president.

When asked how they view the media, only 36 percent of respondents said they approve of the mainstream media while an majority 50 percent said they disapprove of the press.


Or was it a bender to remember in Vegas?
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Mr. Perfect » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:04 am

65% of the US public view the msm as fake news. MSM fake news is the biggest story in US politics
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Zack Morris » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:13 am

Typhoon wrote:Or was it a bender to remember in Vegas?


It was.

Here's the article I meant to cite: Donald Trump Is Helping the Very Media Organizations He Despises.

Pay TV is in structural decline, as younger viewers cut the cord or never subscribe in the first place. But the three major cable-news networks have each set viewership records in the first 100 days of Trump’s presidency. Fox News had the best quarter in cable news history. MSNBC grew more than 50 percent in both daytime and primetime. CNN also saw double-digit growth over its sensational 2016 ratings. Feeding off the fumes of Trump’s whirling-dervish presidency, the networks seem to be growing at the expense of practically everything else on television.


Fox News has hit record viewership. In the first quarter of 2017, it reached more viewers than at any time in its 21 year history.

But this just in: the #1 news channel in America isn't #1 any longer. CNN and MSNBC -- MSNBC! -- are overtaking it.

Dead indeed. This is all the more remarkable given how people have been turning away from TV in droves. Anecdotally, MSM news channels are almost all anyone watches TV for nowadays.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Zack Morris » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:19 am

Interestingly, despite all this, no credible alternative to the MSM has emerged. There are no competing organizations doing actual journalistic work. The conservative fake media relies on MSM journalists to spin their propaganda and when pressed directly on whether they view themselves as journalists (such as when Megyn Kelly recently pressed Alex Jones and his staff), they become visibly uncomfortable and demur. Even they know that real journalists have standards to follow, which as entertainers and propagandists, the conservative lugenpresse have no interest in.

The large tech and media/pop culture blogs are no bastions of conservatism. All that's left are some silly YouTube channels, InfoWars.com, and conservative talk radio. When people want facts and actual news, they turn to the press, or to news aggregators like Google News.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Mr. Perfect » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:48 am

Zack Morris wrote:Interestingly, despite all this, no credible alternative to the MSM has emerged.

There has. You just don't know about it.

There are no competing organizations doing actual journalistic work. The conservative fake media relies on MSM journalists to spin their propaganda and when pressed directly on whether they view themselves as journalists (such as when Megyn Kelly recently pressed Alex Jones and his staff), they become visibly uncomfortable and demur.

It's a great con you fall for every time.

Even they know that real journalists have standards to follow, which as entertainers and propagandists, the conservative lugenpresse have no interest in.

Lol. You are decades behind.

The large tech and media/pop culture blogs are no bastions of conservatism.

Who knows. But America is, looking at the ballot box.

All that's left are some silly YouTube channels, InfoWars.com, and conservative talk radio. When people want facts and actual news, they turn to the press, or to news aggregators like Google News.

So 1998.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Mr. Perfect » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:51 am

Zack Morris wrote:Fox News has hit record viewership. In the first quarter of 2017, it reached more viewers than at any time in its 21 year history.

But this just in: the #1 news channel in America isn't #1 any longer. CNN and MSNBC -- MSNBC! -- are overtaking it.

Dead indeed. This is all the more remarkable given how people have been turning away from TV in droves. Anecdotally, MSM news channels are almost all anyone watches TV for nowadays.

Cool stories. I could school you on relative impact of media, how cable news is the lowest consumed MSM source of news, but the difficulty of educating you in the most basic of topics deters me.

So rather the question for you to research if possible is if your media is setting records for viewers why is the country voting in record GOP.

Let me know what you find.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:01 pm

People have learned to separate primary and secondary source material from the gross summaries presented by MSM.

Project Veritas has produced in-depth primary source reporting, and an hour long interview with a knowlegeable insider is worth far more than 30 two minute propaganda spots on MSM.

The biggest problem with MSM is that they simply refuse to report anything at all if they prefer the subject to be ignored. I am told the lawsuit brought by Uncle Bernie supporters against the DNC is not being reported on MSM.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Doc » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:31 pm

Zack Morris wrote:Interestingly, despite all this, no credible alternative to the MSM has emerged. There are no competing organizations doing actual journalistic work. The conservative fake media relies on MSM journalists to spin their propaganda and when pressed directly on whether they view themselves as journalists (such as when Megyn Kelly recently pressed Alex Jones and his staff), they become visibly uncomfortable and demur. Even they know that real journalists have standards to follow, which as entertainers and propagandists, the conservative lugenpresse have no interest in.

The large tech and media/pop culture blogs are no bastions of conservatism. All that's left are some silly YouTube channels, InfoWars.com, and conservative talk radio. When people want facts and actual news, they turn to the press, or to news aggregators like Google News.


I find it to be great irony that today's "left" wants to maximize censorship for their sole benefit.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby noddy » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:13 am

Zack Morris wrote:Interestingly, despite all this, no credible alternative to the MSM has emerged. There are no competing organizations doing actual journalistic work.


aaah but thats the terrifying brilliance of the current reality.

our countries, our governments and the media spokespeople that they use to feed us official opinions are all breaking down and nothing has emerged to replace them.

all the sub cultures withdrawing to their echo chambers, nations forming across borders and within borders.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Zack Morris » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:14 am

There's nothing ironic about it because it simply isn't true to begin with. Liberals are in favor of freedom of speech and thought. Banning books, book burning rallies, brainwashing children with pledges of allegiance, and trying to ban flag burning are usually the domain of the right wing.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Zack Morris » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:16 am

noddy wrote:our countries, our governments and the media spokespeople that they use to feed us official opinions are all breaking down and nothing has emerged to replace them.


There is plenty of independent analysis within what could be called the "MSM" and the primary source data is more accessible than ever before. The media operates in a totally unregulated market. They can even leak state secrets with impunity. Unsurprisingly, it's a very competitive market. The stories that appear in the WaPo or on CNN are not the same as would appear in, say, The Economist or The Atlantic or Al Jazeera. Also, note that none of the truthful and stunning revelations that have emerged about the Trump White House were "official opinions" fed to the media.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby noddy » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:00 am

Zack Morris wrote:
noddy wrote:our countries, our governments and the media spokespeople that they use to feed us official opinions are all breaking down and nothing has emerged to replace them.


There is plenty of independent analysis within what could be called the "MSM" and the primary source data is more accessible than ever before. The media operates in a totally unregulated market. They can even leak state secrets with impunity. Unsurprisingly, it's a very competitive market. The stories that appear in the WaPo or on CNN are not the same as would appear in, say, The Economist or The Atlantic or Al Jazeera. Also, note that none of the truthful and stunning revelations that have emerged about the Trump White House were "official opinions" fed to the media.


I wasnt talking about the trump nonsense, nor do i really buy into the "end of the deep state" because to me its just the public service and its not going anywhere, the british comedy series "yes [prime]minister" covered the relationship between the ongoing public service and the temporary politcians as well as needs be.

my point was the internationalisation of the news and the democratisation of the news has fractured the MSM in a way that wont be undone without a massive government takeover of the internent that reduces it back to something more akin to cable tv - still fairly open but easy to step in a smash those that step outside certain boundaries.

in my country, yours, or anywhere connected, their are now ever increasing pools of people who identify as a non represented political grouping outside the boundaries of normal republican or normal democrat.

it doesnt matter if you or i think most of them are loons, the loon groups are now as large as the remaining moderate middles - a group largely formed of baby boomers thats fading away.
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Re: The End of the MSM and the Deep State

Postby Mr. Perfect » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:58 am

Zack Morris wrote:There's nothing ironic about it because it simply isn't true to begin with. Liberals are in favor of freedom of speech and thought. Banning books, book burning rallies, brainwashing children with pledges of allegiance, and trying to ban flag burning are usually the domain of the right wing.

Lol no.
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