Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Ultra extreme left wing progressive democrats: "Stop Hillary"
http://online.wsj.com/articles/liberals ... 1414193312
Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

Would-Be 2016 Challengers Test the Waters With Democratic Activists, Donors

By
Peter Nicholas

Oct. 24, 2014 7:28 p.m. ET

KEENE, N.H.—Searching for an alternative to Hillary Clinton for 2016, some Democratic donors are meeting with potential challengers. Liberal activists are trying to coax Sen. Elizabeth Warren into running. Politicians not named Hillary Clinton are testing their appeal in New Hampshire and Iowa.

As formidable as Mrs. Clinton looks even before declaring herself a candidate, liberals are casting about for a committed populist to run against her in 2016. They see the former secretary of state and senator as too closely aligned with large corporations and question whether she can be counted on to narrow the income gap in America.

They hope to either recruit a candidate able to capture the nomination outright or at least give Mrs. Clinton enough of a scare that she embraces progressive policy goals. Their aim is to make the primary process a debate over the Democratic Party’s direction, rather than an uncontested march by Mrs. Clinton to the nomination.

Guy Saperstein, a Democratic donor and part-owner of the Oakland A’s baseball team, met privately at his home near San Francisco last week with Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent from Vermont who has long championed liberal causes. Mr. Sanders says he is considering a presidential bid and wants to gauge whether he can raise enough money.

In their conversation, Mr. Saperstein said, he told Mr. Sanders that he couldn’t support him until he is assured Ms. Warren, of Massachusetts, won’t run. But he said he isn’t inclined to give money to Mrs. Clinton in any scenario, saying he is “extremely concerned” about what he called her “closeness to Wall Street.”

Mrs. Clinton and her husband have raised about $1 billion from U.S. companies and industry donors in support of various policy and political goals over the past two decades, a Wall Street Journal analysis has shown. As president, Bill Clinton signed into law a measure that deregulated parts of Wall Street, which critics say contributed to the 2008 financial crisis.

Earlier this past week, Mr. Sanders visited Keene State College in New Hampshire, the first presidential primary state, where he warned students that wealthy conservative interests are bottling up policies that would boost job growth and help struggling families.

Asked about Mrs. Clinton’s ties to Wall Street firms, Mr. Sanders, who normally has stopped short of criticizing her, said: “That’s an issue that Hillary Clinton is going to have to deal with. That is a very fair observation, and I think the American people perceive that.”

After listening to Mr. Sanders’s hourlong speech, Keene resident John-Michael Dumais said: “He could help steer the conversation in a more populist direction. People need that voice.”

Mrs. Clinton’s office didn’t respond to a request for comment.

In recent appearances for Democratic candidates in midterm races, Mrs. Clinton has sought to shore up her populist credentials. At a campaign rally in Minnesota this past week, she made some of her most explicit comments to date about the need to prevent the sort of financial practices that led to the economic collapse in 2008.

“We’ve made progress, but there is a lot of unfinished business so we don’t end up once again with big banks taking big risks and leaving taxpayers holding the bag,” she said.

On Friday, Mrs. Clinton called Ms. Warren “a passionate champion for working people and middle-class families.” At a rally for the Democratic nominee for governor in Massachusetts, Mrs. Clinton also said: “I love watching Elizabeth, you know, give it to those who deserve to get it.”

As some liberals see it, Ms. Warren and Mr. Sanders are more trusted advocates of their interests. Ms. Warren has skewered credit-card companies and mortgage lenders, accusing them of exploiting people who aren’t financially savvy.

Ben Cohen, co-founder of Ben and Jerry’s ice cream and a longtime Democratic donor, said he would like to see Mr. Sanders and Ms. Warren run. “Having either Bernie or Elizabeth run would be a wonderful thing for the country,” Mr. Cohen said. Both, he said, “are standing up for the rights of the majority of the population.”

As for Mrs. Clinton, he said: “I see Hillary as part of the middle-of-the-road mainstream government that is essentially in bed with these corporations.”

A three-month-old super PAC called “Ready for Warren” is planning to ramp up its efforts after the midterm elections, hiring staff in New Hampshire, Iowa and South Carolina to help ignite a Warren-for-president movement, people with the group say.

One problem: Ms. Warren isn’t going along. Her Senate term ends in 2019, and she has pledged to serve throughout. Yet, there is a long history of politicians promising not to run and then changing their minds.

One Ready for Warren official said she attended the steak-fry fundraiser in Iowa last month in which Mrs. Clinton was the marquee speaker. “A lot of people were coming up to us and asking for signs and stickers and saying how excited they were about Warren and how they hoped she would run,” said Erica Sagrans, the group’s campaign manager.
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Re: Ultra extreme left wing progressive democrats:"Stop Hill

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When I read "Ultra extreme left wing" I expected some people calling for immediate nationalization of the economy, closing of all banks, elimination of rent and communal living.
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Re: Ultra extreme left wing progressive democrats:"Stop Hill

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YMix wrote:When I read "Ultra extreme left wing" I expected some people calling for immediate nationalization of the economy, closing of all banks, elimination of rent and communal living.
Long range goal. Say 2017...

Just a joke Ymix In the days before Cable news political radio talk shows and the internet anyone to the right of Jimmy Carter was Ultra extreme right wing conservative in the US MSM. Now they have mellowed out and just call everyone to the right of Obama "Racist" :roll:
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Re: Ultra extreme left wing progressive democrats:"Stop Hill

Post by Simple Minded »

Doc wrote:
YMix wrote:When I read "Ultra extreme left wing" I expected some people calling for immediate nationalization of the economy, closing of all banks, elimination of rent and communal living.
Long range goal. Say 2017...

Just a joke Ymix In the days before Cable news political radio talk shows and the internet anyone to the right of Jimmy Carter was Ultra extreme right wing conservative in the US MSM. Now they have mellowed out and just call everyone to the right of Obama "Racist" :roll:
the same old game never ends.

"I am a moderate centrist. Everyone who does not follow me in unquestioning lockstep is an extremist radical."

It is one of the most effective types of advertising/characterization.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Conservatives are looking for an alternative to Clinton.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2 ... reate-Jobs
Appearing at a Boston rally for Democrat gubernatorial candidate Martha Coakley on Friday, Hillary Clinton told the crowd gathered at the Park Plaza Hotel not to listen to anybody who says that “businesses create jobs.”

“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs,” Clinton said.

“You know that old theory, ‘trickle-down economics,’” she continued. “That has been tried, that has failed. It has failed rather spectacularly.”
It resulted in the greatest economy in world history. This woman is as dangerous as obama.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Mr. Perfect wrote:Conservatives are looking for an alternative to Clinton.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2 ... reate-Jobs
Appearing at a Boston rally for Democrat gubernatorial candidate Martha Coakley on Friday, Hillary Clinton told the crowd gathered at the Park Plaza Hotel not to listen to anybody who says that “businesses create jobs.”

“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs,” Clinton said.

“You know that old theory, ‘trickle-down economics,’” she continued. “That has been tried, that has failed. It has failed rather spectacularly.”
It resulted in the greatest economy in world history. This woman is as dangerous as obama.
Hillary is dangerous, but she is right about discretionary income and not business driving the economy. Business fires as many people as possible.

Business adds jobs only as a last resort in response to demand. That's why the Bush stimulus worked and Obama's did not.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Mr. Perfect wrote:Conservatives are looking for an alternative to Clinton.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2 ... reate-Jobs
Appearing at a Boston rally for Democrat gubernatorial candidate Martha Coakley on Friday, Hillary Clinton told the crowd gathered at the Park Plaza Hotel not to listen to anybody who says that “businesses create jobs.”

“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs,” Clinton said.

“You know that old theory, ‘trickle-down economics,’” she continued. “That has been tried, that has failed. It has failed rather spectacularly.”
It resulted in the greatest economy in world history. This woman is as dangerous as obama.
Yeah, the greatest economy of financially over-extended waiters, truck drivers, warehouse laborers, and cashiers in world history. Your claim has already been thoroughly debunked by me in the Finance & Economics sub-forum.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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No it sure wasn't.

Even if it was right it's 10 times better than anything you guys came up with.

Reagan is the most popular President in history largely because of his economic performance, experienced by people there firsthand, which you were not.
Last edited by Mr. Perfect on Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Nonc Hilaire wrote: Hillary is dangerous, but she is right about discretionary income and not business driving the economy. Business fires as many people as possible.

Business adds jobs only as a last resort in response to demand. That's why the Bush stimulus worked and Obama's did not.
I sure hope you guys run on this.

If discretionary income "drives the economy" then why have you not been able to start a sizeable business and cash in on it.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Mr. Perfect wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote: Hillary is dangerous, but she is right about discretionary income and not business driving the economy. Business fires as many people as possible.

Business adds jobs only as a last resort in response to demand. That's why the Bush stimulus worked and Obama's did not.
I sure hope you guys run on this.

If discretionary income "drives the economy" then why have you not been able to start a sizeable business and cash in on it.
What kind of sizeable business cashes in on people having no cash to spend? I see a lot of tort attorneys advertising, and also attorneys who specialize in filing disability claims. I guess they created a couple of jobs.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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The answer is you don't know how to start or operate a sizable business because it takes a certain set of skills you don't have. All the discretionary income in the world won't hire anyone if no one knows how invent, make/produce, and sell a product.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Zack Morris wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:Conservatives are looking for an alternative to Clinton.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2 ... reate-Jobs
Appearing at a Boston rally for Democrat gubernatorial candidate Martha Coakley on Friday, Hillary Clinton told the crowd gathered at the Park Plaza Hotel not to listen to anybody who says that “businesses create jobs.”

“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs,” Clinton said.

“You know that old theory, ‘trickle-down economics,’” she continued. “That has been tried, that has failed. It has failed rather spectacularly.”
It resulted in the greatest economy in world history. This woman is as dangerous as obama.
Yeah, the greatest economy of financially over-extended waiters, truck drivers, warehouse laborers, and cashiers in world history. Your claim has already been thoroughly debunked by me in the Finance & Economics sub-forum.
Inherently all of the above have jobs.

What you two are doing is making a issue with many variables into a binary issue.

Businesses and corporations do indeed create jobs as a side effect of producing goods and services. The questions are based on how much it costs to produce those goods:
How much do they pay to workers to create those products?
Where do they produce those products?
What is the quality needed of the products?
How much does it cost to transport the raw materials/parts to produce those products?
How much does it cost to transport the products to market?
How much does it cost to market the products?
How much does it cost to distribute the products?

All of the above questions can be broken down into more questions. But the bottom line is how does it cost to vs. how much money can be made in making products?

The sole purpose of a business is to make money from the initial investment. If you have in place good government policies that allow for investment to make sense monetarily then in general you have jobs. If you have government policies that pick winners and losers then in general you do not have jobs.

Governments [protecting jobs is just picking winners and losers. If for example there used to be a thriving industry of black smithing and suddenly that kind of business went away then it make no sense for government to support it with tax breaks. It just doesn't work.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

Post by Simple Minded »

you guys are missing what could be one of the greatest poetic actions in history.....

Liberals claiming Hillary is a member of the vast right wing conspiracy!
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Simple Minded wrote:you guys are missing what could be one of the greatest poetic actions in history.....

Liberals claiming Hillary is a member of the vast right wing conspiracy!
:lol:

anywho: Sanders and Warren, really? That's the alternative? I don't mean to be flippant but I can't wrap my head around either candidate right now. Senator Sanders is Senator Sanders and a long shot regardless of how you 'do up' the math. He is already older than Clinton who is getting the 'too old' treatment now.

Warren, even ignoring her Native heritage scandal, is a much more interesting case built around base-popularity. I can't see her expanding it when she is beloved by only the self-proclaimed Progressives. But what does it say about her when her 11 tenets of "progressivism" lacked substance. The only take away I gather is that she is against a notion of corporation immorality, wishes to protect current entitlements and the ecosystem, and just some general platitude about equality.

She doesn't propose any new or better government programing, doesn't give a damn about economic inequality, doesn't mention specifics.

This is the Democrat's Progressive Champion? And she is not a spring chicken either- She was born in the 40s too.

When are the Gen X'ers going to jump into the scrum here?
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Mr. Perfect wrote:The answer is you don't know how to start or operate a sizable business because it takes a certain set of skills you don't have. All the discretionary income in the world won't hire anyone if no one knows how invent, make/produce, and sell a product.
Discretionary income must come first.

Your last step is "sell a product". That's the most important one. Without selling, the rest of the investment is wasted. The IBM slogan is 'nothing happens until somebody sells something'. Selling assumes pre-existing discretionary income.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Having spent a lot of time doing sales I will tell you that the prospect having money in no way closes a sale. If you don't believe me take a sales job and see what happens.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Mr. Perfect wrote:Having spent a lot of time doing sales I will tell you that the prospect having money in no way closes a sale. If you don't believe me take a sales job and see what happens.
So you are going to create jobs to sell to unqualified prospects. Because if you 'create' jobs prosperity will follow?

Discretionary income drives a capitalist economy. That is the opportunity businesses chase.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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And where does discretionary income come from.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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OK This thread is going pretty far off track sooooooooooooo

Anyone remember the "Spy vs Spy" comic in ( was it?) Mad Magazine?

Automation arrives at restaurants (but don’t blame rising minimum wages)

McDonald's in Encinitas, Calif.
A McDonald's in Encinitas, Calif. The company this week described plans to install self-ordering kiosks and mobile ordering at its restaurants.

McDonald's has joined the list of food chains looking to put more machines to work

By Patrick Thibodeau

Computerworld | Oct 24, 2014 3:17 AM PT

McDonald's this week told financial analysts of its plans to install self-ordering kiosks and mobile ordering at its restaurants. It isn't the only food chain doing this.

The company that owns Chili's Grill & Bar also said this week it will complete a tablet ordering system rollout next month at its U.S. restaurants. Applebee's announced last December that it would deliver tablets to 1,800 restaurants this year.

The pace of self-ordering system deployments appears to be gaining speed. But there's a political element to this and it's best to address it quickly.

The move toward more automation comes at the same time pressure to raise minimum wages is growing. A Wall Street Journal editorial this week, "Minimum Wage Backfire," said that while it may be true for McDonald's to say that its tech plans will improve customer experience, the move is also "a convenient way...to justify a reduction in the chain's global workforce."

The Journal faulted those who believe that raising fast food wages will boost stagnant incomes. "The result of their agitation will be more jobs for machines and fewer for the least skilled workers," it wrote.

The elimination of jobs because of automation will happen anyway. Gartner says software and robots will replace one third of all workers by 2025, and that includes many high-skilled jobs, too.

Automation is hardly new to retail. Banks rely on ATMs, and grocery stores, including Walmart, have deployed self-service checkouts. But McDonald's hasn't changed its basic system of taking orders since its founding in the 1950s, said Darren Tristano, executive vice president of Technomic, a research group focused on the restaurant industry.

The move to kiosk and mobile ordering, said Tristano, is happening because it will improve order accuracy, speed up service and has the potential of reducing labor cost, which can account for about 30% of costs. But automated self-service is a convenience that's now expected, particularly among younger customers, he said.

"It's keeping up with the times, and the (McDonald's) franchises are going to clamor for it," said Tristano, who said any labor savings is actually at the bottom of the list of reasons restaurants are putting in these self-service systems.

McDonald's is already deploying mobile ordering in other countries. In France, you can order a McDonald's hamburger from a mobile device, tablet or desktop and pick it up later at a restaurant, said Thomas Husson, a Forrester analyst in a report.

"By reducing the stress of the ordering, McDonald's has significantly increased the average revenue per order," wrote Husson of the experience in France.


Chili's has deployed some 45,000 tablets from Ziosk, which makes the system. Ziosk CEO Austen Mulinder says the tablets are used for ordering drinks, appetizers and desserts and for making payments, but they remain optional for customers. The waitstaff will take the first drink and entrée orders, which are often modified by people at the table.

Mulinder said there's no capital cost to installation, and the multi-year subscription price for the system is more than offset by increased revenues it generates.

The tablet also includes games and an opportunity for people to give feedback, and to join a loyalty program. That creates the potential for increased sales, because customers aren't necessarily waiting to catch an employee's attention to refill a drink. It also avoids the frustration of waiting for the check, said Mulinder.

"Restaurants want to speak the language of the millennials and the language of millennials is digital," said Mulinder.

Wyman Roberts, the CEO of Chili's parent company, Brinker International, spoke to financial analysts this week in a conference call about the new system. "We're excited about the potential this has to create a stronger connection and smarter interactivity between us and our guests," said Roberts, according to a transcript by Seeking Alpha.
http://www.computerworld.com/article/28 ... wages.html
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Mr. Perfect wrote:And where does discretionary income come from.
Pay raises, inheritance, investment income. I can't think of any substantial business one could build and then cash out of in this depressed economy. It's even worse than when Bill Clinton thought we would all go on eBay and get rich :lol:
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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Nonc Hilaire wrote: Pay raises, inheritance, investment income.
And where do those come from.
I can't think of any substantial business one could build and then cash out of in this depressed economy.
Follow the stock market?
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote: Pay raises, inheritance, investment income.
And where do those come from.
Existing jobs, which are shrinking.
I can't think of any substantial business one could build and then cash out of in this depressed economy.
Follow the stock market?[/quote]
Exchange traded businesses are buying back shares to boost eps, not creating new jobs. Greenspan recommended going into gold this morning, so maybe starting a coin shop is a good idea.
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Re: Liberals Seek Alternative to Hillary Clinton

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So hopefully with this exercise we can see that businesses do indeed create jobs and without businesses there would be no discretionary income.

Just another reason to reject HRC vehemently, along with her political party.
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