Obama keeps families together

[manolo]

Folks,

President Obama has announced his policy to allow families to stay together.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/ ... 0W20141121

It is hard to see how the citizens of a predominantly Christian nation could disagree with such a heartwarming aim.

Anyone disagree?

Alex.

[Doc]

Folks,

President Obama has announced his policy to allow families to stay together.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/ ... 0W20141121

It is hard to see how the citizens of a predominantly Christian nation could disagree with such a heartwarming aim.

Anyone disagree?

Alex.

What would you say about parents that would send their kids to a foreign country unaccompanied?

[Simple Minded]

Folks,

President Obama has announced his policy to allow families to stay together.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/ ... 0W20141121

It is hard to see how the citizens of a predominantly Christian nation could disagree with such a heartwarming aim.

Anyone disagree?

Alex.

Alex,

Your posts often remind me that perspectives are subjective, and that anything can be interpreted and spun in an infinite numbers of ways. I salute you. Humans love speculating on intent.

You should hear the whining on this side of the Atlantic.

How is this for a spin: Obama’s recent action is just another example of a corrupt politician caving in to special interests and being bought out by lobbyists. He is acting against the best interests of union members, women, teachers, police, blue collar workers, working families, law abiding immigrants, and African-Americans by throwing them under the bus and catering to the 1.5% (5 million/330 million) who have no respect for the rule of law, but engage in criminal activities for selfish personal gain!

All politicians are the same? Some Americans believe in the Divine Right of Kings? Obama really is a right wing extremist Republican mole as some on the left have hypothesized? Enquiring minds want to know!

Washington DC is more entertaining than any soap opera ever televised! Consequences of this action will be fascinating. Commentary by talking heads and politicians, not so much.

[manolo]

Your posts often remind me that perspectives are subjective, and that anything can be interpreted and spun in an infinite numbers of ways. I salute you. Humans love speculating on intent.

SM,

I'm not a moral subjectivist, just polite,
Some things are wrong and some things are right.

Blimey, is this shaping up for couplets?

Alex.

[Simple Minded]

SM,

I'm not a moral subjectivist, just polite,
Some things are wrong and some things are right.

Blimey, is this shaping up for couplets?

Alex.

Alex,

The (I assume intended) humor of following your first sentence with your second sentence is not wasted on me. Brilliant!

Getting those with needs and those with abilities (or last year's privileged group/victims & this years privileged group/victims) to agree on the definitions of "right" & "wrong" is the part the politicians find challenging.

The constant flux of fickle people. The burden of being the dispenser of cosmic justice.

Paraphrasing one of the greatest exchanges in OTNOT history:
"What's not to like?"
"Someone else's definition of right & wrong."

[Typhoon]

From what I recall, the USA is one of the few countries that makes family reunification a priority in immigration.

For example (again going by distant memory), Canada, emphasizes skill set and language proficiency.

My understanding is that on good thing to come from this recent immigration change is that it makes it easier for highly educated/skilled individuals,
typically in the USA on a H1 visa, to remain in the US after finishing their education.

Some of my former (then) young colleagues, an asset to any country, who wanted to remain had a lot of difficulties in doing so.

[Doc]

From what I recall, the USA is one of the few countries that makes family reunification a priority in immigration.

For example (again going by distant memory), Canada, emphasizes skill set and language proficiency.

My understanding is that on good thing to come from this recent immigration change is that it makes it easier for highly educated/skilled individuals,
typically in the USA on a H1 visa, to remain in the US after finishing their education.

Some of my former (then) young colleagues, an asset to any country, who wanted to remain had a lot of difficulties in doing so.

You are correct about all of the above. at least the last time I noticed. Also 20% of the world immigrants immigrate to the US. Germany is big on political refugees.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.


one thing all of you guys (intentionally) forgetting,

is

World Population growth happening only in very few countries, India, China

In developed world, Europe, North America, Japan, Australia etc etc .. all of them .. birth rate is below or barely @ replacement rate

Meaning, in developed world, Europe, Canada, America (even Japan) population growth (or even maintaining population) is dependent on MASSIVE immigration, MASSIVE

Just to make you understand what we talking here :

Canada's Harper .. an ultra right, Christian fundamentalist, folks who believe in RUPTURE .. just approved a new immigration policy dramatically increasing number of immigrants to 500,000 a year .. 4 Boing 474 a day immigrant arrive EVERY DAY in Canada

Well, folks , where do you think these immigrants come from ? ?

Sweden ? ? Germany ? ?

NOOO

That is why, there is now nearly 400,000 Iranians in Canada .. in fact, much easier for an Iranian to immigrate to Canada than for a Brit or French ? ?

Why ?

Because Iranians come and stay in Canada, become absorbed .. B4 Iranians arrived in Vancouver, Vancouver was a provincial village, most exotic fruit was Banana, now Vancouver competing with Zurich (Switzerland) for most desirable place to live on planet earth.

Harper bringing all those immigrants from ME and Caribbean etc not because he suddenly liberal democrat

Population size = economic power

So, in that sense, why, Doc, badmouthing Obama giving residency to 5 million people who live for so many years in America and have probably already integrated.

Western developed world fighting for new immigrants .. without immigrants they will fall back



.

[Doc]

.


one thing all of you guys (intentionally) forgetting,

is

World Population growth happening only in very few countries, India, China

In developed world, Europe, North America, Japan, Australia etc etc .. all of them .. birth rate is below or barely @ replacement rate

Meaning, in developed world, Europe, Canada, America (even Japan) population growth (or even maintaining population) is dependent on MASSIVE immigration, MASSIVE

Just to make you understand what we talking here :

Canada's Harper .. an ultra right, Christian fundamentalist, folks who believe in RUPTURE .. just approved a new immigration policy dramatically increasing number of immigrants to 500,000 a year .. 4 Boing 474 a day immigrant arrive EVERY DAY in Canada

Well, folks , where do you think these immigrants come from ? ?

Sweden ? ? Germany ? ?

NOOO

That is why, there is now nearly 400,000 Iranians in Canada .. in fact, much easier for an Iranian to immigrate to Canada than for a Brit or French ? ?

Why ?

Because Iranians come and stay in Canada, become absorbed .. B4 Iranians arrived in Vancouver, Vancouver was a provincial village, most exotic fruit was Banana, now Vancouver competing with Zurich (Switzerland) for most desirable place to live on planet earth.

Harper bringing all those immigrants from ME and Caribbean etc not because he suddenly liberal democrat

Population size = economic power

So, in that sense, why, Doc, badmouthing Obama giving residency to 5 million people who live for so many years in America and have probably already integrated.

Western developed world fighting for new immigrants .. without immigrants they will fall back
.

IT is not the drop in population AZ it is the speed at which the younger generation drops in numbers that is the issue.

But soon it will likely be a matter of having excess population that will be the problem.

viewtopic.php?p=77822#p77822

7Pq-S557XQU

[Heracleum Persicum]

.


one thing all of you guys (intentionally) forgetting,

is

World Population growth happening only in very few countries, India, China

In developed world, Europe, North America, Japan, Australia etc etc .. all of them .. birth rate is below or barely @ replacement rate

Meaning, in developed world, Europe, Canada, America (even Japan) population growth (or even maintaining population) is dependent on MASSIVE immigration, MASSIVE

Just to make you understand what we talking here :

Canada's Harper .. an ultra right, Christian fundamentalist, folks who believe in RUPTURE .. just approved a new immigration policy dramatically increasing number of immigrants to 500,000 a year .. 4 Boing 474 a day immigrant arrive EVERY DAY in Canada

Well, folks , where do you think these immigrants come from ? ?

Sweden ? ? Germany ? ?

NOOO

That is why, there is now nearly 400,000 Iranians in Canada .. in fact, much easier for an Iranian to immigrate to Canada than for a Brit or French ? ?

Why ?

Because Iranians come and stay in Canada, become absorbed .. B4 Iranians arrived in Vancouver, Vancouver was a provincial village, most exotic fruit was Banana, now Vancouver competing with Zurich (Switzerland) for most desirable place to live on planet earth.

Harper bringing all those immigrants from ME and Caribbean etc not because he suddenly liberal democrat

Population size = economic power

So, in that sense, why, Doc, badmouthing Obama giving residency to 5 million people who live for so many years in America and have probably already integrated.

Western developed world fighting for new immigrants .. without immigrants they will fall back
.

IT is not the drop in population AZ it is the speed at which the younger generation drops in numbers that is the issue.

But soon it will likely be a matter of having excess population that will be the problem.

viewtopic.php?p=77822#p77822

7Pq-S557XQU

.

Population size not only important for working force, for economic production .. but .. also .. for "consumption"

A Robots could produce everything, but they useless generating consumption, restaurants, Hotels, Home sells etc

Malls must be filled, ski slopes must have mass skiers, Hotels must be filled, Airlines must have more passengers ..

Notion .. quite visible now in Japan with aging (and dropping) population .. a nation could grow economy by higher degree of automation (even intelligent robots) when at the same time population is aging and falling is a "fools" logic .. in final analysis consumption must keep pace with growing economy and consumption can not grow with shrinking population.


.

[Doc]

.


one thing all of you guys (intentionally) forgetting,

is

World Population growth happening only in very few countries, India, China

In developed world, Europe, North America, Japan, Australia etc etc .. all of them .. birth rate is below or barely @ replacement rate

Meaning, in developed world, Europe, Canada, America (even Japan) population growth (or even maintaining population) is dependent on MASSIVE immigration, MASSIVE

Just to make you understand what we talking here :

Canada's Harper .. an ultra right, Christian fundamentalist, folks who believe in RUPTURE .. just approved a new immigration policy dramatically increasing number of immigrants to 500,000 a year .. 4 Boing 474 a day immigrant arrive EVERY DAY in Canada

Well, folks , where do you think these immigrants come from ? ?

Sweden ? ? Germany ? ?

NOOO

That is why, there is now nearly 400,000 Iranians in Canada .. in fact, much easier for an Iranian to immigrate to Canada than for a Brit or French ? ?

Why ?

Because Iranians come and stay in Canada, become absorbed .. B4 Iranians arrived in Vancouver, Vancouver was a provincial village, most exotic fruit was Banana, now Vancouver competing with Zurich (Switzerland) for most desirable place to live on planet earth.

Harper bringing all those immigrants from ME and Caribbean etc not because he suddenly liberal democrat

Population size = economic power

So, in that sense, why, Doc, badmouthing Obama giving residency to 5 million people who live for so many years in America and have probably already integrated.

Western developed world fighting for new immigrants .. without immigrants they will fall back
.

IT is not the drop in population AZ it is the speed at which the younger generation drops in numbers that is the issue.

But soon it will likely be a matter of having excess population that will be the problem.

viewtopic.php?p=77822#p77822

7Pq-S557XQU

.

Population size not only important for working force, for economic production .. but .. also .. for "consumption"

True enough But it is all relative.

A Robots could produce everything, but they useless generating consumption, restaurants, Hotels, Home sells etc

Malls must be filled, ski slopes must have mass skiers, Hotels must be filled, Airlines must have more passengers ..

Why? Because there is more or there is less population?

Notion .. quite visible now in Japan with aging (and dropping) population .. a nation could grow economy by higher degree of automation (even intelligent robots) when at the same time population is aging and falling is a "fools" logic ..

How do you figure that? Robots taking care of old people is not so far fetched as some of the other stuff put forward.

in final analysis consumption must keep pace with growing economy and consumption can not grow with shrinking population.
.

Consumption is not needed. Resources can be used for other things

[Doc]

.


Let's assume, in 200 yrs, Japan's population drops to a few million, say 5 million .. and .. "intelligent" robots do all what before humans did, industrial production, manufacturing, taking care of elderly etc

In that kind of situation, all Hotels have closed done, all restaurant closed down, no fishing industry, no rice farming, no need for Airlines, no Taxi no Bus, electricity need dropped 90% (no need of heating and lighting), Pharma industry closed down, very few hospitals, no need of doctors etc, car production collapsed as no buyer etc

My understanding is , American economy is 60% consumption .. if malls empty, commercial real estate will be wiped out, less airline, hotel, train, car sells , gasoline consumption etcetc

If no consumption, for whom are the "robots" producing ?
.

Their Owners.

If the Robots become smarter than Humans there other robots

[Heracleum Persicum]

.


Let's assume, in 200 yrs, Japan's population drops to a few million, say 5 million .. and .. "intelligent" robots do all what before humans did, industrial production, manufacturing, taking care of elderly etc

In that kind of situation, all Hotels have closed done, all restaurant closed down, no fishing industry, no rice farming, no need for Airlines, no Taxi no Bus, electricity need dropped 90% (no need of heating and lighting), Pharma industry closed down, very few hospitals, no need of doctors etc, car production collapsed as no buyer etc

My understanding is , American economy is 60% consumption .. if malls empty, commercial real estate will be wiped out, less airline, hotel, train, car sells , gasoline consumption etcetc

If no consumption, for whom are the "robots" producing ?

.

Their Owners.

.

All those "Robots" could have a very few owners .. say just 10 individuals would own all those Robots

Now, do the Robots produce millions of Toyota for those 10 people ? ?

Robots in reality "productivity machines" .. but .. at the end, things must be produced for somebody .. if nobody there to consume, production becomes meaningless .. becomes like a Restaurant without any client .. you cookin but nobody there to eat.

.

[Doc]

.


Let's assume, in 200 yrs, Japan's population drops to a few million, say 5 million .. and .. "intelligent" robots do all what before humans did, industrial production, manufacturing, taking care of elderly etc

In that kind of situation, all Hotels have closed done, all restaurant closed down, no fishing industry, no rice farming, no need for Airlines, no Taxi no Bus, electricity need dropped 90% (no need of heating and lighting), Pharma industry closed down, very few hospitals, no need of doctors etc, car production collapsed as no buyer etc

My understanding is , American economy is 60% consumption .. if malls empty, commercial real estate will be wiped out, less airline, hotel, train, car sells , gasoline consumption etcetc

If no consumption, for whom are the "robots" producing ?

.

Their Owners.

.

All those "Robots" could have a very few owners .. say just 10 individuals would own all those Robots

Now, do the Robots produce millions of Toyota for those 10 people ? ?

Robots in reality "productivity machines" .. but .. at the end, things must be produced for somebody .. if nobody there to consume, production becomes meaningless .. becomes like a Restaurant without any client .. you cookin but nobody there to eat.

.

Why do you need to purchase anything if you have robots to make it (including more robots) or grow it for you?

Try reading Asimov's robot series to get an idea..

[noddy]

ghetto's is what happens when useless eaters get abandoned by the powers that be (tm) once the robots are doing a better job.

a certain percentage of them will make themselves useful to the powerful - become prostitutes or artisans, the rest grovel in the filth.

so it has always been, so it will always be.

[noddy]

.


one thing all of you guys (intentionally) forgetting,

is

World Population growth happening only in very few countries, India, China

In developed world, Europe, North America, Japan, Australia etc etc .. all of them .. birth rate is below or barely @ replacement rate

Meaning, in developed world, Europe, Canada, America (even Japan) population growth (or even maintaining population) is dependent on MASSIVE immigration, MASSIVE

Just to make you understand what we talking here :

Canada's Harper .. an ultra right, Christian fundamentalist, folks who believe in RUPTURE .. just approved a new immigration policy dramatically increasing number of immigrants to 500,000 a year .. 4 Boing 474 a day immigrant arrive EVERY DAY in Canada

Well, folks , where do you think these immigrants come from ? ?

Sweden ? ? Germany ? ?

NOOO

That is why, there is now nearly 400,000 Iranians in Canada .. in fact, much easier for an Iranian to immigrate to Canada than for a Brit or French ? ?

Why ?

Because Iranians come and stay in Canada, become absorbed .. B4 Iranians arrived in Vancouver, Vancouver was a provincial village, most exotic fruit was Banana, now Vancouver competing with Zurich (Switzerland) for most desirable place to live on planet earth.

Harper bringing all those immigrants from ME and Caribbean etc not because he suddenly liberal democrat

Population size = economic power

So, in that sense, why, Doc, badmouthing Obama giving residency to 5 million people who live for so many years in America and have probably already integrated.

Western developed world fighting for new immigrants .. without immigrants they will fall back



.

i think this is lies told to keep us happy with immigration we dont want.

the only people that benefit from larger economies are government and big business - more power, more to control - average joes just get more ghettos, lower standard of living and more competition and desperation.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

i think this is lies told to keep us happy with immigration we dont want.

the only people that benefit from larger economies are government and big business - more power, more to control - average joes just get more ghettos, lower standard of living and more competition and desperation.

Immigration as class warfare

[noddy]

i think this is lies told to keep us happy with immigration we dont want.

the only people that benefit from larger economies are government and big business - more power, more to control - average joes just get more ghettos, lower standard of living and more competition and desperation.

Immigration as class warfare

absolutely the case.. all the pro's are only true for certain demographics and the con's for average joe are dimissed as lazyness or more honestly, "tough luck".

suck it up and move furthur from town, pay more for housing, work harder for less wages and be glad your country is more economically competitive. woot.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

Notion, last 50 yrs, wealth of America, guarantying high living standard, came from hard working mid America, proof of lack of
knowledge of facts and foolin Joe

Last 50 years (probably longer) American wealth was generated in Silicon Valley by immigrants, those engineers from San Jose state university or Stanford or Caltec and Berkeley were all NEW immigrants, Iranians, Indians, Chinese, Taiwanese, East European, Russian etc

In fact, Mid America industries were (and are) a drag on American economy .. steal and cars will be made in China and India

Wealth of a nation no more brick and mortals, but PATENT, know how, technology

and

Hard working nothing to do with money .. otherwise all in Bangladesh would be by now Billionaires and in Wall Street poor

.

[noddy]

yeh yeh joe is stupid and deserves his fate, this we know already.

a tiny percentage of the population works in successful high tech industry and the rest fight over crappier jobs with lower wages, doesnt matter if they are american born rednecks or asian immigrants.

silicon valley makes a few silicon valley people rich, the whole place could blow up, or move to china, and most people wouldnt notice the difference.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/leesheppard ... oid-taxes/

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

i think this is lies told to keep us happy with immigration we dont want.

the only people that benefit from larger economies are government and big business - more power, more to control - average joes just get more ghettos, lower standard of living and more competition and desperation.

Immigration as class warfare

absolutely the case.. all the pro's are only true for certain demographics and the con's for average joe are dimissed as lazyness or more honestly, "tough luck".

suck it up and move furthur from town, pay more for housing, work harder for less wages and be glad your country is more economically competitive. woot.

The free movement of labor through mass immigration is a third pillar of that economic machine we've been running that has been pretty successful for us so far. The free movement of capital and goods go hand in hand with the free movement of labor. You can't throw one away and keep the rest.

[noddy]

i think this is lies told to keep us happy with immigration we dont want.

the only people that benefit from larger economies are government and big business - more power, more to control - average joes just get more ghettos, lower standard of living and more competition and desperation.

Immigration as class warfare

absolutely the case.. all the pro's are only true for certain demographics and the con's for average joe are dimissed as lazyness or more honestly, "tough luck".

suck it up and move furthur from town, pay more for housing, work harder for less wages and be glad your country is more economically competitive. woot.

The free movement of labor through mass immigration is a third pillar of that (small l) liberal economics that has been pretty successful for us so far. The free movement of capital and goods go hand in hand with the free movement of labor. You can't throw one away and keep the rest.

by and large im on the right side of the new normal (*), i work in startup and hitech companies and ive kept good work when the world around me hasnt, if i manage to sell my overpriced shitbox of a house, it will be to a fresh off the boat middle class immigrant.

im mostly in the benefits from immigration camp for myself.

cant help noticing its destroying regular joes all around me and im not convinced the long term isnt going to be ugly.. very ugly... you can only prop up a country by importing middle class for so long before the fact that your not generating much new middle class locally starts to get noticed.

i hear all this hand wavy talk about tech industry and service industry and i just cant see the mass employment in it, especially when desperate immigrants keep the ratios of suckers to jobs to something which employers prefer.

(*) well, i was until the mining downturn hit, now im just as exposed to the frailties as any other sucker.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

i think this is lies told to keep us happy with immigration we dont want.

the only people that benefit from larger economies are government and big business - more power, more to control - average joes just get more ghettos, lower standard of living and more competition and desperation.

Immigration as class warfare

absolutely the case.. all the pro's are only true for certain demographics and the con's for average joe are dimissed as lazyness or more honestly, "tough luck".

suck it up and move furthur from town, pay more for housing, work harder for less wages and be glad your country is more economically competitive. woot.

The free movement of labor through mass immigration is a third pillar of that (small l) liberal economics that has been pretty successful for us so far. The free movement of capital and goods go hand in hand with the free movement of labor. You can't throw one away and keep the rest.

by and large im on the right side of the new normal (*), i work in startup and hitech companies and ive kept good work when the world around me hasnt, if i manage to sell my overpriced shitbox of a house, it will be to a fresh off the boat middle class immigrant.

im mostly in the benefits from immigration camp for myself.

cant help noticing its destroying regular joes all around me and im not convinced the long term isnt going to be ugly.. very ugly... you can only prop up a country by importing middle class for so long before the fact that your not generating much new middle class locally starts to get noticed.

i hear all this hand wavy talk about tech industry and service industry and i just cant see the mass employment in it, especially when desperate immigrants keep the ratios of suckers to jobs to something which employers prefer.

(*) well, i was until the mining downturn hit, now im just as exposed to the frailties as any other sucker.

Someone pointed out that a lot of these Silicon Valley app companies are just elaborate electronic spectacles to gussy up some old depressing ways of making a buck. Need to sell your possessions? Need cheap lodging? Need a cab? All wildly successful internet businesses; but without the internet part, the work itself is a real low income affair. Welcome to the new economy!

[manolo]

Western developed world fighting for new immigrants .. without immigrants they will fall back.

HP,

There is a rather nasty strain of nationalism here in the UK at the moment. The blame game is EU internal movement of labour. A recent economic analysis has shown that the immigration of workers from other EU countries has produced a substantial net gain for the UK treasury, year on year.

Does this impress the nationalist? Not one bit. They just continue banging on about immigrants 'sponging' off of us.

Politics is rarely about facts, always about feelings and impressions.

Alex.

[noddy]

what does net gain for the UK treasury have to do with the price of tea in china ?

every figure goes up when people migrate, its not just more workers and more tax, its also more unemployed and more tax expenditure aswell, this figure is just lies for half truths to make a point.

personally, i hate overpopulated ghettos full of depression, i have no interest in the world statistically averaging out and australia gettings its fair share of such nightmares, i like living in a country where everyone gets a a chance at a nice place to live and that means keeping the population down.

i look at the mega cities of urban sprawl with their unemployables and its a horrible thing, nothing rasicst about it, i want european migration kept low aswell.. a small trickle of middle class from asia is fine

i fully understand why america is wary of allowing mexico to overspill to much, it would mean turning america into mexico, yay for more ghettos of people without any jobs or likehood of getting one.