The conflict in Ferguson, MO

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12562
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, in a statement on Tuesday :


“ I am deeply concerned at the disproportionate number of young African Americans who die in encounters with police officers, as well as the disproportionate number of African Americans in US prisons and the disproportionate number of African Americans on death row ”


Doc, in Iranian prisons, 95 % of prisoners are men who did not pay the agreed sum to their wife .. the other 5% are drug dealers
That is because the murder everyone else.
viewtopic.php?p=80262#p80262



and

police does not shoot anybody [/quote]

Sure they don't

gTTRujBSDU0

Ax Why do you defend such a scum bag regime?
Shame on America to treat our beloved blacks so bad,

and

as said B4

Barak Hussein, selected and no elected, an ORIO :lol:
.
The shame is on you guy.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12562
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Doc »

Zack Morris wrote:
Doc wrote:Well if you find it depressing then quit playing the game in terms of "Race" A made up socio-political construct to divide people. Change the rules.
Yes, it's a made-up social construct but one that America can't shake. Sorry, Alice, you can't just close your eyes, click your heels three times, and transport yourself to a color-blind fairy tale. Race is America's original sin. This country was built on slavery and for all the grandiose rhetoric of democracy, liberty, and a shining city on the hill, the plantation is the more realistic metaphor for this nation. That legacy still persists to the present day.
Until it is gone things will not get better. Conjuring up another fairytale to claiming using "race" to divide people in effect means nothing is just another means to self identify as a "Racist" whether you believe it exists or not. If you honestly wanted thing to get better you would stop using and apologizing for using the term "Race" to infer there are different "races" of humans.

I would also add you had to resort to grossly mischaracterizing what I actually said in order to make a any rebuttal at all. I said things would never get better as long as people thoughtin terms of "Race" You changed that to me saying " click your heels three times, and transport yourself to a color-blind fairy tale."

"race" is a bloody tool of oppression. If you weld it, you can't avoid getting blood on your hands.
Last edited by Doc on Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11574
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Doc,

Neda was murdered by CIA/Mossad/MI6 agents and immediately put on uTube to agitate more

don't change the subject with fake stuff ..

Why you treating our beloved African American so bad ? ?

UN human right commissioner saying you do

Most death-row occupants in Texas prisons are "innocent blacks"

Every day a black juvenile is shot and killed on pizza delivery or on excuse he walking on middle of street, poor Brown


BTW, Doc, this Gatestone an assembly of all those "eggheads", Bolton & Zionists .. don't waste your time

.
Simple Minded

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Simple Minded »

Zack Morris wrote:......Instead, all I see are............
One of the most beautiful & just aspects of life. Each determines their own reality by their chosen foci and interpretation. :D


"The world is a looking glass and gives back to every man the reflection of his own face."

William Makepeace Thackeray
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27267
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Typhoon »

May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
noddy
Posts: 11325
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by noddy »

for all the crap they cop rino's and dino's seem to be a tiny minority :)

i do doubt the reality of this graphic, the twittersphere is extrmely left leaning and the working right wing doesnt tend to use social media much at all.
ultracrepidarian
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27267
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Typhoon »

noddy wrote:for all the crap they cop rino's and dino's seem to be a tiny minority :)

i do doubt the reality of this graphic, the twittersphere is extrmely left leaning and the working right wing doesnt tend to use social media much at all.
Although the density of blue dots is much higher than red dots, I can't agree or disagree as I don't use social media such as Twitter, etc.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12562
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Doc »

Typhoon wrote:
noddy wrote:for all the crap they cop rino's and dino's seem to be a tiny minority :)

i do doubt the reality of this graphic, the twittersphere is extrmely left leaning and the working right wing doesnt tend to use social media much at all.
Although the density of blue dots is much higher than red dots, I can't agree or disagree as I don't use social media such as Twitter, etc.
Seems like this was posted here recently:

http://www.journalism.org/2014/10/21/po ... ia-habits/
...those with consistently liberal views:...

◾Are more likely than those in other ideological groups to block or “defriend” someone on a social network – as well as to end a personal friendship – because of politics.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12562
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Doc »

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/26/gl ... rotesters/
Global jihadists tweet in bid to recruit Ferguson protesters


By Steven Edwards
·Published November 26, 2014
·FoxNews.com

Islamic jihadists worldwide have launched a barrage of recruitment messages amid the latest unrest in Ferguson, Mo., using Twitter accounts to call on African-Americans and others in the United States to join their cause.

Some messages urge direct revolt against the U.S. government, while others evoke the names of former black leaders – among them Malcolm X – in a bid to convince people of color that living under an Islamic caliphate is in their best interests.

“March against tyranny and arm yourselves against the true terrorists of our time: the US government,” says a tweet from a prominent Dutch jihadist in Syria going by the name of Israfil Yilmaz, and carrying “Ferguson Rising” and “Ferguson Decision” hashtags.

Another tweet from a user going by the name of Abu Hamza As Somaal says: “My fellow black community know that #Jihad is the only thing that will bring justice, respect and honor in (the) Ferguson decision.” ­This message is followed by the hashtag “Islamic State.”

The U.S.-based monitoring firm SITE Intelligence Group, which has been collecting the messages, said they began emerging in large numbers in the wake of the grand jury decision not to indict Darren Wilson, the white police officer involved in the shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown, an African-American.

“Users characterized the decision as the result of America’s racism while claiming jihad and revolution to be fitting responses,” the group says in a statement accompanying the tweets.

“Some jihadist supporters even appeared to openly acknowledge the use of Ferguson as a means of recruitment.”

A message from a user identified as Abu Dhar Al Amirki appeared to directly address African Americans by encouraging people to travel to the IS-declared Caliphate in Syria and Iraq.

“In the Islamic state there are no racist, there is no difference between black and white,” the message said.

Similarly, another user tweeted: “Make hijra (meaning migration) to islamic state oh people of furgosan here we don't see the colour of skin but only the colour of your heart.”

References to statements by Malcolm X – the controversial African American Muslim minister who was a member of the Nation of Islam before leaving to embrace Sunni Islam – feature prominently in many of the jihadist tweets, SITE says.

One ran a graphic citing Malcolm X’s claim that Islam was “one religion that erases from its society the race problem…”
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
noddy
Posts: 11325
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by noddy »

Typhoon wrote:... the density of blue dots is much higher than red dots....
true enough.
ultracrepidarian
Simple Minded

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Simple Minded »

What does this graphic tell us?
1. White people are the problem?
2. Black people are the problem?
3. Red people are the problem?
4. Blue people are the problem.
5. People who don’t have first-hand knowledge of what happened, project and speculate according to their own experience and prejudices?
6. All of the above?
7. None of the above?
8. Nothing?
9. Interpret however you see fit?
10. I'm not sure.
User avatar
NapLajoieonSteroids
Posts: 8390
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Simple Minded wrote:
What does this graphic tell us?
1. White people are the problem?
2. Black people are the problem?
3. Red people are the problem?
4. Blue people are the problem.
5. People who don’t have first-hand knowledge of what happened, project and speculate according to their own experience and prejudices?
6. All of the above?
7. None of the above?
8. Nothing?
9. Interpret however you see fit?
10. I'm not sure.
11. Red and Blue dots make pretty good contrasting colors. #jacksonpollockhaditallwrong
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12562
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Doc »

Putting Ferguson to bed. Not to take back anything I said previously about the concept of different human "races" being a fairy tale. The question I have is how the Ferguson Police had money to buy all that military gear but not money for dash and body cameras?



It is becoming more and more clear that Darren Wilson did not execute Michael Brown. Articles are popping up in Google news that the facts all point to Wilson doing exactly what he said he did.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-2 ... ision.html
Cop’s Fear, Wavering Witnesses Spur Grand Jury Decision
http://www.wlwt.com/national/wilsons-te ... e/29961176
Wilson's testimony stayed largely the same
https://abcnews.go.com/US/ferguson-offi ... d=27221133
Ferguson Officer Darren Wilson Confident Federal Probe Will Clear Him Too

The Ferguson Fraud

By RICH LOWRY
November 25, 2014

The bitter irony of the Michael Brown case is that if he had actually put his hands up and said don't shoot, he would almost certainly be alive today. His family would have been spared an unspeakable loss, and Ferguson, Missouri wouldn't have experienced multiple bouts of rioting, including the torching of at least a dozen businesses the night it was announced that Officer Darren Wilson wouldn't be charged with a crime.

Instead, the credible evidence (i.e., the testimony that doesn't contradict itself or the physical evidence) suggests that Michael Brown had no interest in surrendering. After committing an act of petty robbery at a local business, he attacked Officer Wilson when he stopped him on the street. Brown punched Wilson when the officer was still in his patrol car and attempted to take his gun from him.

The first shots were fired within the car in the struggle over the gun. Then, Michael Brown ran. Even if he hadn't put his hands up, but merely kept running away, he would also almost certainly be alive today. Again, according to the credible evidence, he turned back and rushed Wilson. The officer shot several times, but Brown kept on coming until Wilson killed him.



This is a terrible tragedy. It isn't a metaphor for police brutality or race repression or anything else, and never was. Aided and abetted by a compliant national media, the Ferguson protestors spun a dishonest or misinformed version of what happened—Michael Brown murdered in cold blood while trying to give up—into a chant ("hands up, don't shoot") and then a mini-movement.

When the facts didn't back their narrative, they dismissed the facts and retreated into paranoid suspicion of the legal system. It apparently required more intellectual effort than almost any liberal could muster even to say, "You know, I believe policing in America is deeply unjust, but in this case the evidence is murky and not enough to indict, let alone convict anyone of a crime."

They preferred to charge that the grand jury process was rigged, because St. Louis County prosecutor Robert McCulloch didn't seek an indictment of Wilson and allowed the grand jury to hear all the evidence and make its own decision. This, Chris Hayes of MSNBC deemed so removed from normal procedure that it’s unrecognizable.

It's unusual, yes, but not unheard of for prosecutors to present a case to a grand jury without a recommendation to indict. Regardless, who could really object to a grand jury hearing everything in such a sensitive case? If any of the evidence were excluded that, surely, would have been the basis of other howls of an intolerably stacked deck.

It’s a further travesty, according to the Left, that Officer Wilson was allowed to testify to the grand jury. Never mind that it is standard operating procedure. As former prosecutor Andrew McCarthy points out, guilty parties usually don't testify because they have to do it without their lawyer present and anything they say can be used against them.

It is also alleged that the prosecutor McCulloch is biased because his father was a cop who was killed by a criminal. Follow this argument though to its logical conclusion and McCulloch would be unable to handle almost all cases, because of his engrained bias against criminality.

Finally, there is the argument that Wilson should have been indicted so there could be a trial "to determine the facts." Realistically, if a jury of Wilson's peers didn't believe there was enough evidence to establish probable cause to indict him, there was no way a jury of his peers was going to convict him of a crime, which requires the more stringent standard of beyond a reasonable doubt.

Besides, we don't try people for crimes they almost certainly didn't commit just to satisfy a mob that will throw things at the police and burn down local businesses if it doesn't get its way. If the grand jury had given into the pressure from the streets and indicted as an act of appeasement, the mayhem most likely would have only been delayed until the inevitable acquittal in a trial.

The agitators of Ferguson have proven themselves proficient at destroying other people's property, no matter what the rationale. This summer, they rioted when the police response was "militarized" and rioted when the police response was un-militarized. Local businesses like the beauty-supply shops Beauty Town (hit repeatedly) and Beauty World (burned on Monday night) have been targeted for the offense of existing, not to mention employing people and serving customers.

Liberal commentators come back again and again to the fact that Michael Brown was unarmed and that, in the struggle between the two, Officer Wilson only sustained bruises to his face, or what Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo calls an "irritated cheek." The subtext is that if only Wilson had allowed Brown to beat him up and perhaps take his gun, things wouldn't have had to escalate.

There is good reason for a police officer to be in mortal fear in the situation Officer Wilson faced, though. In upstate New York last March, a police officer responded to a disturbance call at an office, when suddenly a disturbed man pummeled the officer as he was attempting to exit his vehicle and then grabbed his gun and shot him dead. The case didn't become a national metaphor for anything.

Ferguson, on the other hand, has never lacked for media coverage, although the narrative of a police execution always seemed dubious and now has been exposed as essentially a fraud. "Hands up, don't shoot" is a good slogan. If only it was what Michael Brown had done last August.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... 13178.html
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
manolo
Posts: 1582
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by manolo »

Doc wrote: Until it is gone things will not get better. Conjuring up another fairytale to claiming using "race" to divide people in effect means nothing is just another means to self identify as a "Racist" whether you believe it exists or not. If you honestly wanted thing to get better you would stop using and apologizing for using the term "Race" to infer there are different "races" of humans.
Doc,

I think there may be a conflation in some folks thinking on this subject.

Of course racial characteristics are not fairytales, a black person is black and not white because of the biological facts of skin pigmentation. The clue is in the words 'white' and 'black'. Of course there are subtler indicators. Whilst travelling in Spain a street trader called me 'English'. I said, "How do you know?" He said, "Because of the shape of your face." I didn't think for a moment that he was being 'racist', but he was choosing to target me as customer on the basis of physiognomy (and possible wealth).

Where racism begins is in using such biological facts as a basis for discrimination in choices, both positive and negative. Travelling on holiday abroad with an Afro Caribbean friend, he told me that he would be careful with duty free allowances as he was always searched at the airport coming back. We came back; he was searched I wasn't.

A gentle form of racism I noticed just yesterday. A manager in the restaurant 'subway' told me that they didn't tend to employ foreign staff in country town restaurants because the local customers were more comfortable with staff who looked like them, however in city restaurants they could be more cosmopolitan. He was admitting that he might employ partly on the basis of ethnicity (race). The discriminations of sexism and ageism work similarly on the basis of physical descriptors. These descriptors are male/female and old/young. The 'ism' doesn't come from being old/young, female/male, white/black. The ism comes from what we do with the biological facts confronting us.

Alex.
manolo
Posts: 1582
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by manolo »

noddy wrote: .....the twittersphere is extrmely left leaning and the working right wing doesnt tend to use social media much at all.
noddy,

True; we are all lefties here at OTNOTsphere. :)

Alex.
Simple Minded

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Simple Minded »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
11. Red and Blue dots make pretty good contrasting colors. #jacksonpollockhaditallwrong
Personally, I find red people and blue people to be extremely obnoxious, bigoted, and insensitive. Much more so than any white person or black person I have ever met.

There oughta be a law....
Simple Minded

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Simple Minded »

manolo wrote:
noddy wrote: .....the twittersphere is extrmely left leaning and the working right wing doesnt tend to use social media much at all.
noddy,

True; we are all lefties here at OTNOTsphere. :)

Alex.
That would explain our innate predilection for being offended, being offensive, arrogance, and condensation (not really the word I wanted to use, but I couldn't spell the other one).....
noddy
Posts: 11325
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by noddy »

Fekkin dew!
ultracrepidarian
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12562
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Doc »

manolo wrote:
Doc wrote: Until it is gone things will not get better. Conjuring up another fairytale to claiming using "race" to divide people in effect means nothing is just another means to self identify as a "Racist" whether you believe it exists or not. If you honestly wanted thing to get better you would stop using and apologizing for using the term "Race" to infer there are different "races" of humans.
Doc,

I think there may be a conflation in some folks thinking on this subject.

Of course racial characteristics are not fairytales, a black person is black and not white because of the biological facts of skin pigmentation. The clue is in the words 'white' and 'black'. Of course there are subtler indicators. Whilst travelling in Spain a street trader called me 'English'. I said, "How do you know?" He said, "Because of the shape of your face." I didn't think for a moment that he was being 'racist', but he was choosing to target me as customer on the basis of physiognomy (and possible wealth).

Where racism begins is in using such biological facts as a basis for discrimination in choices, both positive and negative. Travelling on holiday abroad with an Afro Caribbean friend, he told me that he would be careful with duty free allowances as he was always searched at the airport coming back. We came back; he was searched I wasn't.

A gentle form of racism I noticed just yesterday. A manager in the restaurant 'subway' told me that they didn't tend to employ foreign staff in country town restaurants because the local customers were more comfortable with staff who looked like them, however in city restaurants they could be more cosmopolitan. He was admitting that he might employ partly on the basis of ethnicity (race). The discriminations of sexism and ageism work similarly on the basis of physical descriptors. These descriptors are male/female and old/young. The 'ism' doesn't come from being old/young, female/male, white/black. The ism comes from what we do with the biological facts confronting us.

Alex.
But it is not race. Skin color etc. is just a queue of what culture a person belongs to. Take this study for example:

http://www.povertyactionlab.org/publica ... rket-discr

As Typhoon likes to say causation is not the same as correlation Look at the male African American names. This study was published in 2004 it was conducted no more than three years after 911. Many of the males names are derived from Arabic names. So what is being measured is confused. But surely no one is going to argue that parents choose the names of their children based on genetics. Genetics infers un-changeability. The real differences are perceptions, real or not of culture. Something that is fixable. Blacks feel there is bias against them rather than overt "racism".

Mostly the problems are mistrust based on perceptions of culture.

Like I have said in the past there is one thing Obama has accomplished. He has made possible for Black kids to grow up believing they to can be president someday.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27267
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Typhoon »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
What does this graphic tell us?
1. White people are the problem?
2. Black people are the problem?
3. Red people are the problem?
4. Blue people are the problem.
5. People who don’t have first-hand knowledge of what happened, project and speculate according to their own experience and prejudices?
6. All of the above?
7. None of the above?
8. Nothing?
9. Interpret however you see fit?
10. I'm not sure.
11. Red and Blue dots make pretty good contrasting colors. #jacksonpollockhaditallwrong
How about . . .

12. How red tweeters and blue tweeters ignore each other on Ferguson.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
manolo
Posts: 1582
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by manolo »

Simple Minded wrote: That would explain our innate predilection for being offended, being offensive, arrogance, and condensation ..
SM,

OK, I'll own up to some condensation but you'll have to speak for yourself with the other stuff. :(

Alex.
manolo
Posts: 1582
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by manolo »

Doc wrote: Like I have said in the past there is one thing Obama has accomplished. He has made possible for Black kids to grow up believing they to can be president someday.
Doc,

You're right about that. They can believe it possible to become president as a black person and yet still unable to speak about black issues. It's a racist dream. :)

Alex.
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12562
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Doc »

manolo wrote:
Doc wrote: Like I have said in the past there is one thing Obama has accomplished. He has made possible for Black kids to grow up believing they to can be president someday.
Doc,

You're right about that. They can believe it possible to become president as a black person and yet still unable to speak about black issues. It's a racist dream. :)

Alex.
Alex sometimes you are just plain old evil.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Simple Minded

Re: The conflict in Ferguson, MO

Post by Simple Minded »

manolo wrote:
Simple Minded wrote: That would explain our innate predilection for being offended, being offensive, arrogance, and condensation ..
SM,

OK, I'll own up to some condensation but you'll have to speak for yourself with the other stuff. :(

Alex.
Alex,

One for all, all for one. :)
Post Reply