Issues of Race in the USA

[Mr. Perfect]

okay, as that was your point, I apologize.

I worry that we are driving ourselves into a racial ditch

Not into, already in it and buried in it. Have you looked at any statistics. Many of our minorities live like 3rd worlders, under Democrat leadership. It's over and done.

with so much political energy being channeled and expended into identities by our haute bourgeoisie.

Actually you need to be accurate. It is the left wing MSM.

And the Republicans don't even see it coming (Mr. P dismisses it out of hand, )

It's not that we don't see it coming, we just choose to look away as the bodies go into the buzzsaw. I don't care to watch human mutilation.

but you hear a lot from people that isn't good for a republic dependent on a healthy democracy. It won't just disappear when our Republican utopia hits, you know?

I don't know what you are getting at but just to be upfront the black community in the US is beyond saving, much like parts of the 3rd world and white European liberals. There is nothing to be done. Only God can save them.

Black America was and is brutalized under obama, doing worse than any other group but being the only group to increase their vote for him. The only group. At that point, doing triage I wrote them off politically. A group of people that unable to discern their survival, we can't waste scarce resources on them. They are on their own. I wish them well but they are on their own.

And before you go into racist hysterics I feel that way about many groups across the pigment spectrum, including white Europeans. Spengler pines for them, for me the writing is on the wall. There is no hope for them, so I will waste nothing on them as they go to their destruction. Self immolating peoples can be found across the globe, throughout history and all along the pigment spectrum. There is nothing special about any particular one.

It's just instructive how insular many people are, they act as if trouble in the black community is something new. The Democrats enslaved them, segregated them, and now oppress them and blame Republicans, who are nowhere to be found in there daily lives. Republicans in Kansas are the true cause of Baltimore, right? That makes sense.

It just cultural triage. It's not the end of the world, just the end of you.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Hah. The always hilarious triangulator conspiracy. Two political parties get together and decide to lose elections. So naive.

I suggested complacency not conspiracy.

Platitude of the century. This beats hope and change. Followed by the vaguery of the century.

The basic fact is that many of our cities have decaying tax bases which leave them under-funded and in the hands of a rather loathsome class of managerial-bourgeoisie. If you were interested in repairing these problems, you could read treatments of Steve H. Hanke on the effect of property taxes on loci like Baltimore MD or Bridgeport CT, Giuliani and Bratton’s work with the NYPD, the Canadian experience with metropolitan government, and literature on school choice.

But you are not, because Republican concern stops at the end of a suburban curve and has no desire to actualy govern beyond where they are already ensconced- better not piss off the developers of ticky tacky USA!

The GOP should do nothing.

It does nothing- too much of nothing and condemns itself. It is a party of despair. Party motto is: Despair of the people, Despair by the people and Despair for the people until our 'princess and her pea' conditions are fully satisfied.

Err, the current article of faith is that black Democrat cities need less police not more because police are mowing down black folks in the street for sport while setting records for minority incarceration.

And Republicans take it as gospel truth as long as no one notices them swindling in their little cul-de-sacs.

You will be stoned out of any Democrat city council for your racist policy.

Really? I thought you were just arguing all Democrats are racists.

This is a new conspiracy to me. Is it related to jews running everything.

We used to actually incorporate and reincorporate places around the settlements of people. It's an absurdity that there are 'suburbs' less than five miles out of city limits which make use of city utilities but pay little back.

As opposed to a party that can't think any problems can't be solved by better government "management".

The only hope for the black community is the Christian Church, and I think we all know the odds on that.

How do you know? Scripture says, "I will have mercy on whom I will, and I will be merciful to whom it shall please Me" (Exodus 33:19.) Thus, St Augustine teaches that "the effectiveness of God’s mercy cannot be in the power of man to frustrate, if he will have none of it. If God wills to have mercy on a man, He can call him in a way that is suited to him, so that he will be moved to understand and to follow." The Church’s mission is not to "win converts," but to proclaim the Gospel. Concepts of success or failure have no application to a Divine mission; although individuals can be faithful or unfaithful to their calling.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I don't think Mr.P Republicans would actually know what to do with themselves if the time came for them to actually be a majority governing the federal government.

[Mr. Perfect]

I suggested complacency not conspiracy- which is more condemning.

Condemning of who what where when.

The basic fact is that many of our cities have decaying tax bases which leave them under-funded and in the hands of a rather loathsome class of managerial-bourgeoisie.

Democrats are as Democrats do. I have no control over Democrats, at all. Do you have any control over them?

If you were interested in repairing these problems, you could read treatments of Steve H. Hanke on the effect of property taxes on loci like Baltimore MD or Bridgeport CT, Giuliani and Bratton’s work with the NYPD, the Canadian experience with metropolitan government, and literature on school choice.

If I was interested in repairing these problems I would pray for divine intervention. While the content of my prayers will remain private, divine intervention in this case will rely less on my prayers as other factors out of my control.

But you are not, because Republican concern stops at the end of a suburban curve and has no desire to actualy govern beyond where they are already ensconced- better not piss off the developers of ticky tacky USA!

Republican concerns stop where we are not elected. We're getting into Zack Morris territory here. Wandering into Baltimore, "I'm with the Republican Party and I"m here to help". Good luck on that Nap.

It does nothing- too much of nothing.

It resulted in a supermajority. I like that.

And Republicans take it as gospel truth as long as no one notices them swindling in their little cul-de-sacs.

Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Really? I thought you were just arguing all Democrats are racists.

I don't know about all of them, but all of them consider you a racist and will tell you so at the city council meeting. Go ahead and go to one and let us know what happens.

Go to a Baltimore city council meeting, tell them you are with the GOP and give them a list of your proscriptions. Let us know how it goes.

We used to actually incorporate and reincorporate places around the settlements of people. It's an absurdity that there are 'suburbs' less than five miles out of city limits which make use of city utilities but pay little back.

Sounds like a Democrat problem. Go talk to them about it.

But to be clear, are you suggesting redrawing lines every so often will prevent black folks from being at the bottom of the list on every social measure. If so, you should be beating a path to Democrats to teach them the error of their ways.

How do you know? Scripture says, "I will have mercy on whom I will, and I will be merciful to whom it shall please Me" (Exodus 33:19.) Thus, St Augustine teaches that "the effectiveness of God’s mercy cannot be in the power of man to frustrate, if he will have none of it. If God wills to have mercy on a man, He can call him in a way that is suited to him, so that he will be moved to understand and to follow." The Church’s mission is not to "win converts," but to proclaim the Gospel. Concepts of success or failure have no application to a Divine mission; although individuals can be faithful or unfaithful to their calling.

I didn't say it was high probability. It's just the last option left.

[Mr. Perfect]

I don't think Mr.P Republicans would actually know what to do with themselves if the time came for them to actually be a majority governing the federal government.

We've been the majority mostly since 1994, and of course we had the epic Reagan Bush years

The GOP is currently undergoing a cleansing, and boy. Just wait for what's going to happen.

Just heads up, we don't believe in "governance" so much we believe in freedom.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

We're getting into Zack Morris territory here. Wandering into Baltimore, "I'm with the Republican Party and I"m here to help". Good luck on that Nap.

Wasn't that the justification for the Iraq War?

Just heads up, we don't believe in "governance" so much we believe in freedom.

Well, no one is ever gonna stop you from being the stupid party.

But to be clear, are you suggesting redrawing lines every so often will prevent black folks from being at the bottom of the list on every social measure. If so, you should be beating a path to Democrats to teach them the error of their ways.

Are you sure you don't belong to a teacher's union- framing the question in an input/output model? It's not my problem where anyone ends up on a social science report- it is my problem that there is blight that can easily be rectified which no one in either party will deal with because on one side it may interfere with their multiplication of patron-client relations and the other side is populated by whiners and fools who talk a big game but refuse to engage anyone lest they break a nail or get dirty in the process.

As for helping African-Americans as if they lacked their own agency: The vast majority of Americans with African ancestry in this country are working class, just like the vast majority of those with European ancestry. While they have a larger lumpen-proletariat, it goes no higher than 15% of that populace. While a great many have bad jobs, look at the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Having a crummy job is normal in this country and in other places.

What isn't normal or acceptable is the restrictions placed on these communities, some of them slums, which do not keep them safe in their being or with access to social utilities. It would be a help to blacks, and to slum-dwellers in general, if there were actually a party willing to establish a greater measure of public order on the streets and in the schools, with serious tracking of students (not thrown out for bad behavior) is in a program which makes optimal use of their time. It'd be helpful if the Republicans actually acknowledged that more human capital and more congenial public spaces are good things and that all the knuckleheads running things would disappear overnight if people gaming the system had to actually pay their fair share.

That is what made Giuliani both a singular figure and a tragic one. Singular because he actually managed to transform NYC as much as he did; a tragedy because no Republican was actually competent to smartly follow up on what he started.

The typical Republican response was to look at Giuliani, look at what he did, and then figure Bloomberg would be a billion times better than Giuliani because he was worth a billion more dollars-

or as Mr.P might exclaim breathlessly, "He could buy and sell us all!"

[Mr. Perfect]

Wasn't that the justification for the Iraq War?

Good point. The Iraqis ended up choosing self immolation rather than an opportunity improve themselves. We learned from Iraq, not everyone wants help.

Well, no one is ever gonna stop you from being the stupid party.

When you get beat by the stupid party, what does that make you.

Are you sure you don't belong to a teacher's union- framing the question in an input/output model? It's not my problem where anyone ends up on a social science report- it is my problem that there is blight that can easily be rectified which no one in either party will deal with because on one side it may interfere with their multiplications of patron-client relations and the other side are whiners and fools who talk a big game but refuse to engage anyone lest they break a nail or get dirty in the process.

Some day you will need to come up with real world examples and specifics that can be executed in the real world by real people. I live in reality and am with the supermajority party that has been the functioning majority for some decades and will be the majority party for decades to come. So when the ant lectures the show horse, don't be surprised when the ant simply gets stepped on, not out of animosity but lack of awareness.

[Mr. Perfect]

As for helping African-Americans as if they lacked their own agency:

That's your approach not mine. My whole approach is to respect the agency of all people, including black folks. I allow the whole pigment spectrum to have agency.

The vast majority of Americans with African ancestry in this country are working class, just like the vast majority of those with European ancestry. While they have a larger lumpen-proletariat, it goes no higher than 15% of that populace. While a great many have bad jobs, look at the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Having a crummy job is normal in this country and in other places.

What isn't normal or acceptable is the restrictions placed on these communities, some of them slums, which do not keep them safe in their being or with access to social utilities. It would be a help to blacks, and to slum-dwellers in general, if there were actually a party willing to establish a greater measure of public order on the streets and in the schools, with serious tracking of students (not thrown out for bad behavior) is in a program which makes optimal use of their time. It'd be helpful if the Republicans actually acknowledged that more human capital and more congenial public spaces are good things and that all the knuckleheads running things would disappear overnight if people gaming the system had to actually pay their fair share.

The Republican party has no control at all over those areas. None. Go talk to the people who have control over those areas. You may as well lecture the Amish on how they should solve the problems of South Central LA.

That is what made Giuliani both a singular figure and a tragic one. Singular because he actually managed to transform NYC as much as he did; a tragedy because no Republican was actually competent to smartly follow up on what he started.

The typical Republican response was to look at Giuliani, look at what he did, and then figure Bloomberg would be a billion times better than Giuliani because he was worth a billion more dollars-

or as Mr.P might exclaim breathlessly, "He could buy and sell us all!"

Republicans were never particularly excited by Bloomberg. You are selling a non factual.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I live in reality.

No you don't, you're pulling our leg.

[Mr. Perfect]

I'm not the one suggesting the GOP can solve the crises of Democrat cities by redrawing lines.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I'm not the one suggesting the GOP can solve the crises of Democrat cities by redrawing lines.

I thought they owned all the states and are minutes away from Western European domination with Trump?

I thought the ghost of Spiro Agnew (and his suburban politics) no longer swayed the GOP imperial throne?

There are things you aren't supposed to say to people, like telling women they are getting fat or telling men that they are losing hair....

Republicans love looting urban settlements.

[Mr. Perfect]

We don't own all the states yet. Maybe some day. Just a supermajority. There is evidence that Trump could make serious inroads into the black community. This could be another route to their salvation. But tbd. I'm open to all options. I would love for black folks to vote 90% GOP.

[Mr. Perfect]

I thought the ghost of Spiro Agnew (and his suburban politics) no longer swayed the GOP throne?

There are things you aren't supposed to say to people, like telling women they are getting fat or telling men that they are losing hair....

Republicans love pilfering urban settlements.

Whatever that means.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I thought the ghost of Spiro Agnew (and his suburban politics) no longer swayed the GOP throne?

There are things you aren't supposed to say to people, like telling women they are getting fat or telling men that they are losing hair....

Republicans love pilfering urban settlements.

Whatever that means.

What you contrive to miss is that some of us cannot be bothered with your trumpery.

=========================


The 'Southern Strategy' was a suburban strategy mimicking what happened up north; cluster and develop Republicans on the fringes of metropolitan settlements right outside the municipal limits and scrounge off it- worked in the North; worked in the South. Refuse to actually do anything and let a certain class of Democrats rot the inner metropolis without so much as a peep. You could say that stupidity, inertia and negligence explained much of both parties complicity with this self-sorting and its ensuing troubles; but we are veering into malevolent territory.

A good rule of thumb is that when people start going out of their way to distinguish themselves from the other fellow, they will eventually divorce from their commonalities as well. Right now there is a mess of people agitating for all sorts of things, some reasonable and righteous, some bilge or the kind of codswallop you get from the usual predators in confusing situations.

But whatever it's merit, if it’s broadly successful, it would indicate that wide swaths of our population cannot live together while remaining ultimately inseparable.

So we are left with the Spenglerian idea (David, not Egon or Oswald) of cheering for mass death as solution. And maybe that's all well and fine (if you can get over that knot in your stomach for even entertaining the idea) when say, your enemy generally occupies a separate territory to do their dyin' or is physically divisible- say Croatia from Bosnia and Serbia, or the Walloon from the Flemish- but there's no such luck in this sort of scenario.

It's rooting for S.O.L. internecine conflict into perpetuity, like madmen.

Which may be what we are becoming: both the American Left and American Right are predicting their opponent on the verge of collapse.

[Typhoon]

. . .

It's rooting for S.O.L. internecine conflict, like a madman.

Quite.

However, Charles has dibs.

[YMix]

It's nice that Mr.P acts as if race problems in urban areas are solely a Democratic concern but the Republican party is partnered very much with the Democrats in maintaining the two party urban-suburban divide.

This is the point you were missing before. I'm not even arguing against the Republican Party, but rather continuing a discussion that started some time ago when Mr. Perfect and Doc started their little ideological purity campaign: "race problems are solely the Democrats' fault",

Democrats were the party of slavery, segregation, and the modern Baltimores, of which there are many. Just reporting the facts.

"Hitler was a leftist".

HItler joined and led a socialists workers party, created a national union, practiced Keynesian economics etc. What else would you call someone like that. Right wing is right off the list.

My objection is to their attempts to claim that Republicans/right-wingers/conservatives have been on the right side of every moral issue since probably the dawn of time.

I just go where the facts lead me. The GOP certainly has warts but for whatever reason you guys can't find them and focus on made up things.

The ride never ends.

[Mr. Perfect]

The ride ended last November for all intents and purposes. The permanent post leftist chapter likely begins in 2016. It's not the end of the world...

[Mr. Perfect]

What you contrive to miss is that some of us cannot be bothered with your trumpery.

Sure. There are always minorities.

The 'Southern Strategy' was a suburban strategy mimicking what happened up north; cluster and develop Republicans on the fringes of metropolitan settlements right outside the municipal limits and scrounge off it- worked in the North; worked in the South. Refuse to actually do anything and let a certain class of Democrats rot the inner metropolis without so much as a peep. You could say that stupidity, inertia and negligence explained much of both parties complicity with this self-sorting and its ensuing troubles; but we are veering into malevolent territory.

Not really. This is Democrat conspiracy theory. Ascribe super human powers to behind the scenes Spiro Agnews, who can never seem to control the media, but huge demographic shifts they control like marionettes.

That you have to resort to conspiracy should tell you something.

A good rule of thumb is that when people start going out of their way to distinguish themselves from the other fellow, they will eventually divorce from their commonalities as well.

When did this start.

Right now there is a mess of people agitating for all sorts of things, some reasonable and righteous, some bilge or the kind of codswallop you get from the usual predators in confusing situations.

Democrats are as Democrats do.

But whatever it's merit, if it’s broadly successful, it would indicate that wide swaths of our population cannot live together while remaining ultimately inseparable.

On tv, but not in reality. TV is not reality. Neither is facetube.

I have no idea what you are talking about, but if it is illegal immigration, don't worry about. Most countries don't allow it and deport people as dispassionately as issuing parking tickets. Places like Japan. Japan is essentially a nation of Trumps on the issue.

So we are left with the Spenglerian idea (David, not Egon or Oswald) of cheering for mass death as solution.

This is an old lie that people seem to need to believe in. As Goldman has clarified over and over, when people are intent on self immolation sometimes you just have to step aside and not get in the way.

And maybe that's all well and fine (if you can get over that knot in your stomach for even entertaining the idea) when say, your enemy generally occupies a separate territory to do their dyin' or is physically divisible- say Croatia from Bosnia and Serbia, or the Walloon from the Flemish- but there's no such luck in this sort of scenario.

It's rooting for S.O.L. internecine conflict into perpetuity, like madmen.

No it isn't. One of us is going to win and the other one is going to lose. The conflict started by Wilson and Roosevelt, injecting the virus of leftism into the body politic, is about to come to an end.

Which may be what we are becoming: both the American Left and American Right are predicting their opponent on the verge of collapse.

One of us is a supermajority, one of us isn't.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

That you have to resort to conspiracy should tell you something.

Obviously, that suburban communities are regnant-Republican Party means that the Brookings Institute must be wearing tinfoil hats too. Scholars have never thought about the relationship between Republicans and suburbs and Republican strategy around that voting base.

And President Obama and the Democrats just randomly target their policy to contain and constrain suburbanites. There is no political strategy to that, because hey! Republican party values and the virtues required for/gained from suburban living may overlap but only a nut would associate the two or think they could get votes from there.

When did this start.

I'll make the cut in time with the Baby Boomers.

Places like Japan. Japan is essentially a nation of Trumps on the issue.

You are mixing messages again- I'm not involved in your new found fascination with Japan.

This is an old lie that people seem to need to believe in. As Goldman has clarified over and over, when people are intent on self immolation sometimes you just have to step aside and not get in the way.

What old lie? It is much easier to get out of the way of your neighbor if he is his side of the fence, much different when the person is in the same room as you.

No it isn't. One of us is going to win and the other one is going to lose. The conflict started by Wilson and Roosevelt, injecting the virus of leftism into the body politic, is about to come to an end.

Be careful when turning conflict into tragedy.

One of us is a supermajority, one of us isn't.

*Is there a Gerry here? A Gerry Mander? Hey guys! I'm looking for a Gerry Mander!*

Democrats think they have all the demographics on their side too.

[Mr. Perfect]

Obviously, that suburban communities are regnant-Republican Party means that the Brookings Institute must be wearing tinfoil hats too.

Just so you know I don't read articles linked off site without any type of quotes or previews.

Scholars have never thought about the relationship between Republicans and suburbs and Republican strategy around that voting base.

Just because you have a strategy doesn't mean it actually does anything.

And President Obama and the Democrats just randomly target their policy to contain and constrain suburbanites. There is no political strategy to that, because hey! Republican party values and the virtues required for/gained from suburban living may overlap but only a nut would associate the two or think they could get votes from there.

It's a platitude that cities vote for Democrats and vice versa for Republicans, following along with platitudes is not the same as Spiro Agnew masterminding it from the grave.

But point being, people like you are struggling to differentiate between long term and short term trends. The long term post Reagan trajectory is the norm we are returning to, the short term obama boom is becoming ash before our eyes. A serious but brief bump in the ride.

The Democrats handed us their demographics over the last 30 years. Seniors and working whites were the backbone of the party since Roosevelt, but they gave them to us. They only need to give us one more and it's finished. And they are in the process.

I'll make the cut in time with the Baby Boomers.

People have been splitting into opposing groups since Babel.

You are mixing messages again- I'm not involved in your new found fascination with Japan.

I'm Japanese, I assure you it's nothing new.

What old lie? It is much easier to get out of the way of your neighbor if he is his side of the fence, much different when the person is in the same room as you.

Democrats are not in the same room as me. As you pointed out, they've cloistered themselves into the cities. Many if not most of them don't even have cars. They can't reach me.

Be careful when turning conflict into tragedy.

It's just a body rejecting a virus. Nothing tragic about it.

*Is there a Gerry here? A Gerry Mander? Hey guys! I'm looking for a Gerry Mander!*

Do you know that Senate Seats and Governorships cannot be gerrymandered. We have a supermajority there too. Your media products have been failing you.

Democrats think they have all the demographics on their side too.

Yep, in the 1970's they predicted they would be the supermajority by now. Actually they thought it would happen decades ago. And the opposite happened. I'm the supermajority. So you have to choose who you are going to believe in nap. Choose carefully.

But lets cut to the chase.

Can you, in 2 or 3 sentences, give us a coherent reason why you don't like Trump. I can't find anyone who can do that. That suggests the anti Trumps will fail, because incoherency has a long track record of failure. I'll I'm getting is "he's and durian" which he isn't and "he's Hitler", which well we all know how that turns out.

So just 2-3 sentences if you could.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

What does it matter what I think of Trump, and what does it have to do with this thread?

The Gerry Mander thing was a joke, your focus on staying on message makes you lose the forest from the trees.

And how does your suddenly revealed Japanese ethnicity relate to ME? Are you upset the thread is not entitled: Honkys and Niggers and the Yellow Menance, Oh My!

[Mr. Perfect]

What does it matter what I think of Trump, and what does it have to do with this thread?

Your transformation into a Democrat apologist seems to coincide.

The Gerry Mander thing was a joke, your focus on staying on message makes you lose the forest from the trees.

In the forest and in the trees I'm the supermajority.

And your gerrymander thing is just another new left wing talking point as bogus as a $7 bill, but seemed to fit you like a glove.

And how does your suddenly revealed Japanese ethnicity relate to ME? Are you upset the thread is not entitled: Honkys and Niggers and the Yellow Menance, Oh My!

Not everything is about you. Some things are about my ethnic mate Colonel Sun.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Your transformation into a Democrat apologist seems to coincide.

Maybe it was the full moon.

And your gerrymander thing is just another new left wing talking point as bogus as a $7 bill, but seemed to fit you like a glove.

I'm sure it is.

What I'm not so sure about is why you are so defensive about this. Nothing I said was out of the realm of Republican thought- well most Republican thought. Redrawing municipal line, school choice, metropolitan/county services...all Republican ideas. Rudy Guiliani was kicked out of the Republican party? Steve H. Hanke?

Not everything is about you. Some things are about my ethnic mate Colonel Sun.

You sure got a funny way of talkin' to him through fisking posts directed at me.

[Mr. Perfect]

Maybe it was the full moon.

Maybe not.

I'm sure it is.

What I'm not so sure about is why you are so defensive about this.

It's what I do. I go on defense and offense against liberalism and leftism. A leftist would say I have no choice in the matter because humans have no free will and are simply creatures of evolution fulfilling genetic mandates. I'm like a white blood cell against left wing cancer.

Nothing I said was out of the realm of Republican thought- well most Republican thought. Redrawing municipal line, school choice, metropolitan/county services...all Republican ideas. Rudy Guiliani was kicked out of the Republican party? Steve H. Hanke?

Whatever this means

You sure got a funny way of talkin' to him through fisking posts directed at me.

Just keeping it real.

I can see you can't string 3 sentences together. People who sputter in politics generally lose. Just giving you guys a heads up. If you guys want to take down Trump you are getting further and further behind the 8 ball.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Whatever this means

It means I named flesh and blood Republicans who have discussed this issue. That was before you went on some rant about having "real life examples" 'cause you live in the real world and keep it real and are the real mccoy and really possess quite the hobby horse. I guess when Republican utopia hits, and everyone has perfect Mitt Romney hair forever, actual governing won't be an issue and anyone with those concerns or ideas are Democrats.

I can see you can't string 3 sentences together. People who sputter in politics generally lose. Just giving you guys a heads up. If you guys want to take down Trump you are getting further and further behind the 8 ball.

Still has nothing to do with this thread.