Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Ibrahim
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 am

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Ibrahim »

Hoosiernorm wrote:
Juggernaut Nihilism wrote:I have only seen a little bit about this story. Did this stupid shithead seriously shoot a bunch of Sikhs on accident because they thought he were Muslim?
No he shot them on purpose because he thought that they were Muslim. Did anyone else find it ironic that he killed people who are more Aryan than his pasty cheese eating ass?

The emphasis on "Aryanism" is one of the funniest things about the highly risible Nazi and neo-Nazi ideology. Correctly applied, the "Aryans" would include all of Pakistan and Afghanistan, most of Northern India, other parts of Central Asia, all of Iran, all of Europe. Pretty much everybody West of the Himalayas and North of Arabia. Promoting "Aryanism" would, if properly understood, involve uniting more different ethnic groups than any movement in history. Far from the exclusionist and elitist movement that these groups are trying to promote. A lot of the mythology of Nazism is really tied up in German early and mythological history, but they are using the wrong terms. Though one would think the failure of Nazism on the battlefield, at the hands of forces including many groups it considered inferior (Slavs, Jews, Arabs, Africans, and Sikhs) would have collapsed the entire house of ideological cards.


And again, it isn't clear that he was trying to shoot Muslims as opposed to Sikhs.
User avatar
monster_gardener
Posts: 5334
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:36 am
Location: Trolla. Land of upside down trees and tomatos........

Butter Knife vs. Bayonet... A pointed discussion

Post by monster_gardener »

Enki wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:Thank you Very Much for the Thread, Ibrahim.

Just on ABC news a moment ago..

The heroic Temple President tried to take down the shooter with a Knife......

That's what I had hoped and expected to hear when Sikhs are involved.....

Probably was his kirpan.....

Too bad he failed..........

But at least he tried..........

Running is fine............

Hiding is fine.......

Fighting and succeeding is heroic.........

Fighting and failing is still heroic.........

Thank you Very Much again for the Thread, Ibrahim.

Latest news is that the Heroic Temple President used a butter knife to defend against the perp allowing others to escape....

May be true........

I believe that he was heroic........... but am a little doubtful about the butter knife...... Could be true.......... but wondering if he really used his kirpan and if the Sikhs and/or the MSM media is trying real hard to spin the Sikhs are pacifists....

I may well be wrong and if he used a butter knife because the kirpan had to be glued down.........even more heroic.....

I think of butter knives as being dull........ unlike steak knives..........

In any case I hope he left a permanent mark on the perp...........

Looks like he may have............
The president of the temple died defending the house of worship he founded.

Satwant Singh Kaleka, 65, managed to find a simple butter knife in the temple and stab the gunman before being shot twice, his son said Monday.

"Whatever time he spent in that struggle gave the women time to get cover" in the kitchen, Kaleka said.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-574 ... ontentBody

Know what's even duller than a butter knife? A Bayonet.
Thank you VERY Much for your reply, Tinker/Enki.
Know what's even duller than a butter knife? A Bayonet.

Interesting.........

Seems it depends on how dull your butter knife is........... ;)

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 81870.html

In my experience, while not particularly sharp, the bayonet is sharper than my butter knife.

In any case, if used as a thrusting weapon, a kirpan or bayonet would have helped the Temple President make his point :twisted: to the Neo-Nazi perp better than my butter knife........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27267
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Typhoon »

Ibrahim wrote:
Hoosiernorm wrote:
Juggernaut Nihilism wrote:I have only seen a little bit about this story. Did this stupid shithead seriously shoot a bunch of Sikhs on accident because they thought he were Muslim?
No he shot them on purpose because he thought that they were Muslim. Did anyone else find it ironic that he killed people who are more Aryan than his pasty cheese eating ass?

The emphasis on "Aryanism" is one of the funniest things about the highly risible Nazi and neo-Nazi ideology. Correctly applied, the "Aryans" would include all of Pakistan and Afghanistan, most of Northern India, other parts of Central Asia, all of Iran, all of Europe. Pretty much everybody West of the Himalayas and North of Arabia. Promoting "Aryanism" would, if properly understood, involve uniting more different ethnic groups than any movement in history. Far from the exclusionist and elitist movement that these groups are trying to promote. A lot of the mythology of Nazism is really tied up in German early and mythological history, but they are using the wrong terms. Though one would think the failure of Nazism on the battlefield, at the hands of forces including many groups it considered inferior (Slavs, Jews, Arabs, Africans, and Sikhs) would have collapsed the entire house of ideological cards.

. . .
Indeed.

Anecdote. This point was brought home to me when having dinner with two friends when in the Midwest. One friend was fluent in Sanskrit, the other in Lithuanian.

Listening to them compare words, pronunciation, and esp grammatical structure I was astonished by the similarities between the classical language of India and an archaic language still spoken in a part of NE Europe -some 8,000 km apart. Both friends are as close to Aryan as one can get today, far more than any any Nazi, yet would have been classified as subhuman in that messed up mythology.

Indo-European vocabulary

Also, as an aside, Finish and Estonian are related to Hungarian, Finno-Ugric, and may be related to Turkish and in turn Korean and Japanese.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Azrael
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Azrael »

A lot of Sikhs have been attacked over the years because they've been mistaken for Muslims. On the other hand, the alleged perpetrator belongs to Nazi type groups, so his motivation could be racist/xenophobic in nature, rather than specifically anti-Muslim (or anti-Sikh).
cultivate a white rose
User avatar
Parodite
Posts: 5643
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Parodite »

Enki wrote:
Parodite wrote:Isn't all group-think innately prone to forms of violence and violent competition with other group-thinkers? Us-versus-them. A territorial drive that spills over into the virtual realms of ideology, religion and pseudo-science. Mentally instable individuals can add any of those to the other voices in their heads.
No, it doesn't always lead to violence. Sometimes it is the acts of non-violence that form the group identities of some people. They feel superior specifically because they DON'T kill for their ideology.
Well, there are ideologies that profess non-violence but their success is usually limited to the smaller circles in life where it is relatively easy to be non-violent (family, friends and church for instance) already. They fail where the bigger interests play out on the level of territory, power (of which feeling superior is a brand) and resources. They tend to make things more difficult to be resolved peacefully.
Deep down I'm very superficial
User avatar
Alexis
Posts: 1305
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:47 pm

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Alexis »

Ibrahim wrote:A terrorist may be crazy, in fact its almost a job requirement, but what they are doing is different from the loner-who-snaps that I remember seeing every so often since Columbine.
As you say, there is difference between a lone freak killer and a lone freak killer motivated by an ideology (even one of his making like Breivik)

I found quite thought-provoking Dmitry Orlov's take on such killers, and the causes for their quite sustained numbers

Excerpts:
We are expected to derive our sense of belonging from our inclusion in a set of impersonal public institutions and participation in a scripted political process. But in spite of what our handlers in politics and the media tell us, our gut sense is that these public institutions do not belong to us, and that the political process is one of manipulation rather than inclusion. Many of us know full well that we live in a kleptocracy that prioritizes international financial interests and the interests of a small, privileged rentier class above all else. More and more of us are being excluded—based on our inability to pay for a middle-class lifestyle.

Where do we belong, then? With the Republicans/Democrats? Looking at the current presidential contest, in one corner we have a wealthy Mormon aristocrat posing as a self-made man, while in the other corner we have an exotic product of the American academe posing as a man of the people and, because he randomly happens to be brown-skinned, as a champion of the children of former slaves. Both are, in fact, faithful servants of financial interests, many of them transnational or foreign. Both will maintain the power of the center at the cost of the periphery, and extend the milking, the bleeding and the fleecing of the people for as long as possible. Meanwhile, the US Congress performs a sadomasochistic folie à deux on behalf of their corporate sponsors. Only 17% of the people approve of their performance. Such a high number is perhaps explained by the fact that roughly 20% of Americans are mentally ill. (Even so, it would appear that a few percent of the mentally ill are insufficiently delusional to approve of congressional performance.)
(...)
When the dominant culture fails to produce a sense of belonging, the human mind regresses to a pre-verbal state, where it is ruled by innate, subconscious impulses that are common to higher social animals. Depending on one's personality and situation, one or another of three major impulses described by Bion may come to dominate the behavior of the individual, and, in due course, the society as a whole.

When it comes to aggressive young males, the sense of disconnection produces in them a heightened sense of insecurity and anxiety which directly affects the sympathetic nervous system. This may cause an animal to behave more aggressively, or, in the case of the human animal, to gather rocks and to find and sharpen sticks, or, technology and finances allowing, to purchase semiautomatic assault weapons and lots of ammunition. This process may then progress through several stages. The end result is the spontaneous development of a warrior mentality—a cultural universal marked by a desire to prove oneself in battle, contempt for death, and a tendency toward what Emile Durkheim called “altruistic suicide.”

The pattern is the same among Homeric heroes, Mongol conquerers, Japanese samurai, European knights of the age of chivalry or Moscow's bandits and racketeers during the violent 1990s. Meaning is created out of meaninglessness through heroic acts of violence performed in keeping with a code of honor. Inclusion in the elite group is achieved via violent rites of passage and creates group loyalty and a sense of belonging. The gun cult in the United States is a strong precursor to this development, and the sporadic shooting sprees are its individual manifestations. This may at some point progress to the point of becoming a mass phenomenon. If it does, it will annihilate the current ruling class and the process of aristocratic formation will begin anew.
User avatar
Enki
Posts: 5052
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:04 pm

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Enki »

Monster_Gardener Pretty much every bayonet is duller than pretty much every butter knife. Lacking other options, I would pick up a butter knife to use as a weapon. What makes the bayonet superior at piercing is the delivery mechanism of the rifle acting as battering ram to drive the dull point in.

The reason bayonets are dull is so they don't get stuck in bone, but rather crush it before the weight of the bayonet.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
Ibrahim
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 am

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Ibrahim »

Looks like "Romney Hood" vs. "Obamaloney" has bumped this story from the front page. I suppose all of these mass shootings blend together after a while.

By the end the coverage was practically fawning over the Sikh community and hyping up the menace of neo-Nazism in America. Perhaps a little 80's as far as threats to the nation go (up there with metalheads and Dungeons & Dragons), though one European-produced documentary I saw on al Jazeera English correlated rhetoric and talking points (as well as a few organizers) between 90's and early 2000's white supremacist movements and the Tea Party. But good luck getting that to stick with in American audience.
User avatar
Hans Bulvai
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:30 pm
Location: Underneath everything

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Hans Bulvai »

ZrXHIYulil8
I don't buy supremacy
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
User avatar
monster_gardener
Posts: 5334
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:36 am
Location: Trolla. Land of upside down trees and tomatos........

Pointed Discussion on Bayonets.........

Post by monster_gardener »

Enki wrote:Monster_Gardener Pretty much every bayonet is duller than pretty much every butter knife. Lacking other options, I would pick up a butter knife to use as a weapon. What makes the bayonet superior at piercing is the delivery mechanism of the rifle acting as battering ram to drive the dull point in.

The reason bayonets are dull is so they don't get stuck in bone, but rather crush it before the weight of the bayonet.
Thank you VERY Much for your reply, Tinker Enki.

What you say makes sense but FME sometimes they are sharp anyway.....

Remembering an old Japanese Arisaka rifle and bayonet that one of clan members who made it back brought back from the Pacific in WW2......... Bayonet was different from Uz/US bayonets I have seen and quite sharp on the edge as well as the point.........

Would be nice if DOU or some of the Armed Forces members would comment........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
Ibrahim
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 am

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Ibrahim »

http://www.salon.com/2012/08/17/tragedy ... oak_creek/
Tragedy returns to Oak Creek
On Wednesday, a Sikh shopkeeper was killed near the temple where a white supremacist murdered six people
By Valarie Kaur

On Wednesday night, Dalbir Singh was closing his store when three masked people approached and opened gunfire. He was shot in the head and died instantly. This crime fits the profile of thousands of failed attempted robberies in the U.S., except that Dalbir Singh is a turbaned Sikh man in Oak Creek, Wis.

Dalbir Singh was murdered just 10 days after a white supremacist massacred six people – five turbaned men and one woman – in the Sikh gurdwara in Oak Creek. He was one of hundreds of local community members I joined last week to mourn the victims killed in what authorities are calling a hate crime and an act of domestic terrorism.

...

In fact, three days after the mass shooting, a Sikh cab driver in Oak Creek reported that a white man asked him to roll down the window, pantomimed shooting a gun and said, “This isn’t over.” Now, the community is reeling from another murder.


What's going on in Wisconsin?
User avatar
Azrael
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Azrael »

Ibrahim wrote:http://www.salon.com/2012/08/17/tragedy ... oak_creek/
Tragedy returns to Oak Creek
On Wednesday, a Sikh shopkeeper was killed near the temple where a white supremacist murdered six people
By Valarie Kaur

On Wednesday night, Dalbir Singh was closing his store when three masked people approached and opened gunfire. He was shot in the head and died instantly. This crime fits the profile of thousands of failed attempted robberies in the U.S., except that Dalbir Singh is a turbaned Sikh man in Oak Creek, Wis.

Dalbir Singh was murdered just 10 days after a white supremacist massacred six people – five turbaned men and one woman – in the Sikh gurdwara in Oak Creek. He was one of hundreds of local community members I joined last week to mourn the victims killed in what authorities are calling a hate crime and an act of domestic terrorism.

...

In fact, three days after the mass shooting, a Sikh cab driver in Oak Creek reported that a white man asked him to roll down the window, pantomimed shooting a gun and said, “This isn’t over.” Now, the community is reeling from another murder.


What's going on in Wisconsin?
I think this fits under getting rid of people you don't like.
Last edited by Azrael on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cultivate a white rose
Hoosiernorm
Posts: 2206
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:59 pm

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Hoosiernorm »

Ibrahim wrote:


What's going on in Wisconsin?

You got a metro area that is largely multi ethnic and a rural area that is mostly white right beside each other with not much of a suburban buffer zone. When you cross the state line from Illinois if it weren't for firework stands, liquor stores, cheese shops, adult book stores and used car dealerships there wouldn't be any standing structures until you get to about Oak Creek.
Been busy doing stuff
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27267
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Typhoon »

Hoosiernorm wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
What's going on in Wisconsin?
You got a metro area that is largely multi ethnic and a rural area that is mostly white right beside each other with not much of a suburban buffer zone. When you cross the state line from Illinois if it weren't for firework stands, liquor stores, cheese shops, adult book stores and used car dealerships there wouldn't be any standing structures until you get to about Oak Creek.
In this day of the internet, do those windowless adult book shops still exist?

Madison struck me as a the typical lovely US university town and Milwaukee as a town with Germanic roots.

Why would a bunch of dairy farmers become so radicalized?
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Ibrahim
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 am

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Ibrahim »

I don't get the leap from "Red State" social conservatism to racist murder. Why the correlation? Being too close to what passes for a city in Wisconsin with no buffer doesn't seem like an adequate explanation to me.
Hoosiernorm
Posts: 2206
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:59 pm

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Hoosiernorm »

Ibrahim wrote:I don't get the leap from "Red State" social conservatism to racist murder. Why the correlation? Being too close to what passes for a city in Wisconsin with no buffer doesn't seem like an adequate explanation to me.
A person who floats around between different white power groups is probably not the most successful individual in society. When you get to the point that you live within a social group that is your only source of identity then you are probably the son of excess labor that has no future, no family ties, and didn't get with the whole political movement of a community. You are an outcast socially, financially, and politically. The immigrants who do come in are tied to a social group that helps support an already better trained and educated group. The small shop owners of this generation will send their kids to better schools and will have sons and daughters who will own multiple shops and a lot of low end real estate. Right now each of these groups interact with each other because one is just getting started and the other is at the bottom. The white man at the bottom can't figure out why he doesn't run the shop or own the shop or the apartment building. Then add a group that tells the man at the bottom that he should own the shop or building but it's a conspiracy that keeps him poor. The brainwashed moron who hears that most of his early adult life will probably believe it and after awhile decide that it's about time to do something about it. He can't do what he should do which is get a better education or move somewhere where he can get a low wage job. He's in a structure that the only thing he can do for success is to attack or murder the "others". In a sick sort of way the murder was his only chance at success (pretty fucked up).
Been busy doing stuff
Ibrahim
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 am

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Ibrahim »

Right, I've said racism is for pathetic losers for years. Why the sudden spike in Wisconsin though?

More interestingly why was the initial shooting a big story, but not the apparent sustained effort to target a minority community?
Hoosiernorm
Posts: 2206
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:59 pm

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Hoosiernorm »

Ibrahim wrote:Right, I've said racism is for pathetic losers for years. Why the sudden spike in Wisconsin though?

More interestingly why was the initial shooting a big story, but not the apparent sustained effort to target a minority community?
Don't know. There were a several attacks on whites last year at the state fair by groups of black youths. I'm not sure what provoked that either. I'm not sure what the employment picture looks like up there or if there was something else going on. Last year was the big fight over state workers collective bargaining rights and there may still be a lot of tension left over from that fight. Once you get a population mobilized it's hard to tell what else will happen.
Been busy doing stuff
Ibrahim
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 am

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Ibrahim »

Hoosiernorm wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:Right, I've said racism is for pathetic losers for years. Why the sudden spike in Wisconsin though?

More interestingly why was the initial shooting a big story, but not the apparent sustained effort to target a minority community?
Don't know. There were a several attacks on whites last year at the state fair by groups of black youths.
Oh, well then. Skinheads are just fighting back against the rising of the tide I guess. Makes perfect sense.
Hoosiernorm
Posts: 2206
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:59 pm

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Hoosiernorm »

Ibrahim wrote:
Hoosiernorm wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:Right, I've said racism is for pathetic losers for years. Why the sudden spike in Wisconsin though?

More interestingly why was the initial shooting a big story, but not the apparent sustained effort to target a minority community?
Don't know. There were a several attacks on whites last year at the state fair by groups of black youths.
Oh, well then. Skinheads are just fighting back against the rising of the tide I guess. Makes perfect sense.
For a skinhead or other gang related activity the thing is probably related to "What is Success?". What does an individual have to do to be a successful skinhead? What does a gang member have to do to be a successful gang member? The rules and logic of an organization usually have their own outcomes. A successful skinhead probably doesn't have a lot of long term goals that you or I or anyone else would ever consider beneficial. Membership probably has a set of rules that involve some sort of threshold you have to cross even to become a member. Gang membership usually has a set of rules that none of us would consider performing. In a way this killing was probably considered successful to the killer. He achieved a level of notoriety that no other member of his group has. He didn't only talk about doing it and wear a uniform he went out and actually did what the others only dreamed about.
Been busy doing stuff
User avatar
Azrael
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Azrael »

Hoosiernorm wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Hoosiernorm wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:Right, I've said racism is for pathetic losers for years. Why the sudden spike in Wisconsin though?

More interestingly why was the initial shooting a big story, but not the apparent sustained effort to target a minority community?
Don't know. There were a several attacks on whites last year at the state fair by groups of black youths.
Oh, well then. Skinheads are just fighting back against the rising of the tide I guess. Makes perfect sense.
For a skinhead or other gang related activity the thing is probably related to "What is Success?". What does an individual have to do to be a successful skinhead? What does a gang member have to do to be a successful gang member?
Good point. That's probably part of why he did it.
The rules and logic of an organization usually have their own outcomes. A successful skinhead probably doesn't have a lot of long term goals that you or I or anyone else would ever consider beneficial. Membership probably has a set of rules that involve some sort of threshold you have to cross even to become a member. Gang membership usually has a set of rules that none of us would consider performing. In a way this killing was probably considered successful to the killer. He achieved a level of notoriety that no other member of his group has. He didn't only talk about doing it and wear a uniform he went out and actually did what the others only dreamed about.
I think so. Perhaps, in his mind, losing his life was a small price to pay for a moment of glory.
cultivate a white rose
Ibrahim
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 am

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Ibrahim »

Most people are all talk, that's a given. Some people, though, get tired of being all talk all the time and eventually try to follow through on their bullshit. From John Wilkes Booth to Yukio Mishima to probably this temple shooter as well.

My point is that there seems to be an active racist skinhead movement currently operating in Wisconsin, which is continuing to openly threaten or attack Sikhs. The term "domestic terrorism" is certainly appropriate. How many Americans has al Qaeda killed in the US in the past ten years? Compared to "Volksfront" or whatever? Given the Patriot Act/counter-terrorism trend post-9/11 you'd think there would be more concern over this, before there is an Oklahoma City-style bombing in Milwaukee.


-----


I've been reading Patwant Singh's introductory work The Sikhs and learning a bit more about their early history. Quite an admirable group! (unless you're a pacifist)

Recommended.
noddy
Posts: 11326
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by noddy »

i did a translation project for a sikh group, so he could annotate the GGS in various languages, which was very difficult for me as i didnt speak the language nor get pattern recogintion on the characters and yet had to convert a custom image based font to modern unicode.

certainly tested my learning ability and by the end of it i was quite fammilar with it, they where all nice people.
ultracrepidarian
Ibrahim
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 am

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by Ibrahim »

noddy wrote:i did a translation project for a sikh group, so he could annotate the GGS in various languages, which was very difficult for me as i didnt speak the language nor get pattern recogintion on the characters and yet had to convert a custom image based font to modern unicode.

certainly tested my learning ability and by the end of it i was quite fammilar with it, they where all nice people.
I was nosing around for a standard English translation of the Guru Granth Sahib for my library and I'm actually having a difficult time finding one that people seem to agree upon as legitimate and which is also readily available for purchase at a reasonable price. I thought it would be as simple as getting a Bible or Quran, which are always available in a variety of translations from places like Amazon.com, and furthermore certain organizations will often give you a copy for free.

While Sikhism is relatively small compared to those religions, the GGS deserves better distribution, if only for its historical importance.
noddy
Posts: 11326
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin

Post by noddy »

Ibrahim wrote:
noddy wrote:i did a translation project for a sikh group, so he could annotate the GGS in various languages, which was very difficult for me as i didnt speak the language nor get pattern recogintion on the characters and yet had to convert a custom image based font to modern unicode.

certainly tested my learning ability and by the end of it i was quite fammilar with it, they where all nice people.
I was nosing around for a standard English translation of the Guru Granth Sahib for my library and I'm actually having a difficult time finding one that people seem to agree upon as legitimate and which is also readily available for purchase at a reasonable price. I thought it would be as simple as getting a Bible or Quran, which are always available in a variety of translations from places like Amazon.com, and furthermore certain organizations will often give you a copy for free.

While Sikhism is relatively small compared to those religions, the GGS deserves better distribution, if only for its historical importance.
this is why they wanted the online annotation ability, the one thing they all agreed upon was that the literal translation was useless and that noone agreed on the specifics of the metaphorical/allegorical translations.

this project was to allow several respected elders the ability to put *their* versions of the translation alongside each other and thusly use the electronic version to provide a deeper translation than a single paper version could ever achieve.

i found this attitude extremely refreshing in amongst all the muslim/christian/jewish arguments on these issues ;)
ultracrepidarian
Post Reply