U.S. Foreign Policy

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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: U.S. Foreign Policy

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Re: U.S. Foreign Policy

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Re: U.S. Foreign Policy

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A must read


Uri Avnery


As they say in Yiddish : The fools would have been amusing, if they had not been our fools.

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The Debacle

30/11/13


THE GREATEST danger to Israel is not the putative Iranian nuclear bomb. The greatest danger is the stupidity of our leaders.

This is not a uniquely Israeli phenomenon. A great many of the world’s leaders are plain stupid, and always have been. Enough to look at what happened in Europe in July 1914, when an incredible accumulation of stupid politicians and incompetent generals plunged humanity into World War I.

But lately, Binyamin Netanyahu and almost the entire Israeli political establishment have achieved a new record in foolishness.

LET US start from the end.

Iran is the great victor. It has been warmly welcomed back into the family of civilized nations. Its currency, the rial, is jumping. Its prestige and influence in the region has become paramount. Its enemies in the Muslim world, Saudi Arabia and its gulf satellites, have been humiliated. Any military strike against it by anyone, including Israel, has become unthinkable.

The image of Iran as a nation of crazy ayatollahs, fostered by Netanyahu and Ahmadinejad, has disappeared. Iran now looks like a responsible country, led by sober and shrewd leaders.

Israel is the great loser. It has maneuvered itself into a position of total isolation. Its demands have been ignored, its traditional friends have distanced themselves. But above everything else, its relations with the US have been seriously damaged.

What Netanyahu and Co. are doing is almost unbelievable. Sitting on a very high branch, they are diligently sawing through it.

Much has been said about the total dependence of Israel on the US in almost all fields. But to grasp the immensity of the folly, one aspect in particular must be mentioned. Israel controls, in effect, the access to the US centers of power.

All nations, especially the smaller and poorer ones, know that to enter the halls of the American Sultan, in order to get aid and support, they have to bribe the doorkeeper. The bribe may be political (privileges from their ruler), economic (raw materials). diplomatic (votes in the UN), military (a base or intelligence “cooperation”), or whatever. If it is big enough, AIPAC will help to gain support from Congress.

This unparalleled asset rests solely on the perception of Israel’s unique position in the US. Netanyahu’s unmitigated defeat on US relations with Iran has badly damaged, if not destroyed, this perception. The loss is incalculable.

ISRAELI POLITICIANS, like most of their colleagues elsewhere, are not well versed in world history. They are party hacks who spend their lives in political intrigues. If they had studied history, they would not have built for themselves the trap into which they have now fallen.

I am tempted to boast that more than two years ago I wrote that any military attack on Iran, either by Israel or the US, is impossible But it was not prophesy, inspired by some unknown deity. It was not even very clever. It was just the result of a simple look at the map. The Strait of Hormuz.

Any military action against Iran was bound to lead to a major war, something in the category of Vietnam, in addition to the collapse of world oil supplies. Even if the US public had not been so war weary, in order to start such an adventure one would not only have to be a fool, but practically mad.

The military option is not “off the table” – it never was “on the table”. It was an empty pistol, and the Iranians knew this well.

The loaded weapon was the sanctions regime. It hurt the people. It convinced the supreme leader, Ali Husseini Khamenei, to completely change the regime and install a new and very different president.

The Americans realized this, and acted accordingly. Netanyahu, obsessed with the bomb, did not. Worse, he still does not.

If it is a symptom of madness to keep trying something that has failed again and again, we should start to worry about “King Bibi”.

TO SAVE itself from the image of utter failure, AIPAC has started to order its senators and congressmen to work out new sanctions to be instituted in some indefinite future.

The new leitmotif of the Israeli propaganda machine is that Iran is cheating. The Iranians just can’t do otherwise. Cheating is in their nature.

This might be effective, because it is based on deeply rooted racism. Bazaar is a Persian word, associated in the European mind with haggling and deception.

But the Israeli conviction that the Iranians are cheating is based on a more robust foundation: our own behavior. When Israel started in the 1950s to build up its own nuclear program, with the help of France, it had to deceive the whole world and did so with stunning effect.

By sheer coincidence – or perhaps not – Israel’s Channel 2 TV aired a very revealing story about this last Monday (just two days after the signing of the Geneva accord!) Its most prestigious program, “Fact”, interviewed the Israeli Hollywood producer, Arnon Milchan, a billionaire and Israeli patriot.

In the program, Milchan boasted of his work for Lakam, the Israeli intelligence agency which handled Jonathan Pollard. (Since then it has been dismantled). Lakam specialized in scientific espionage, and Milchan did invaluable service in procuring in secret and under false pretences the materials needed for the nuclear program which produced the Israeli bombs.

Milchan hinted at his admiration for the South African apartheid regime and at Israel’s nuclear cooperation with it. At the time, a possible nuclear explosion in the Indian Ocean near South Africa mystified American scientists, and there were theories (repeated only in whispers) about an Israeli-South African nuclear device.

A third party was the Shah of Iran, who also had nuclear ambitions. It is an irony of history that Israel helped Iran to take its first atomic steps.

Israeli leaders and scientists went to very great length to hide their nuclear activities. The Dimona reactor building was disguised as a textile factory. Foreigners brought to tour Dimona were deceived by false walls, hidden floors and such.

Therefore, when our leaders speak of deception, cheating and misleading, they know what they are talking about. They respect the Persian ability to do the same, and are quite convinced that this will happen. So are practically all Israelis, and especially the media commentators.

ONE OF the more bizarre aspects of the American-Israeli crisis is the Israeli complaint that the US has had a secret diplomatic channel with Iran “behind our back”.

If there were an international prize for chutzpah, this would be a strong contender.

The “world’s only superpower” had secret communications with an important country, and only belatedly informed Israel about it. What cheek! How dare they?!

The real agreement, so it seems, was not hammered out in the many hours of negotiation in Geneva, but in these secret contacts.

Our government, by the way, did not omit to boast that it knew about this all the time from its own intelligence sources. It hinted that these were Saudi. I would rather suspect that it came from one of our numerous informants inside the US administration.

Be that as it may, the assumption is that the US is obliged to inform Israel in advance about every step it takes in the Middle East. Interesting.

PRESIDENT OBAMA has obviously decided that sanctions and military threats can only go so far. I think he is right.

A proud nation does not submit to open threats. Faced with such a challenge, a nation tends to draw together in patriotic fervor and support its leaders, disliked as they may be. We Israelis would. So would any other nation.

Obama is banking on the Iranian regime-change that has already started. A new generation, which sees on the social media what is happening around the world, wants to take part in the good life. Revolutionary fervor and ideological orthodoxy fade with time, as we Israelis know only too well. It happened in our kibbutzim, it happened in the Soviet Union, it happens in China and Cuba. Now it is also happening in Iran.

SO WHAT should we do? My advice would simply be: if you can’t beat them, join them.

Stop the Netanyahu obsession. Embrace the Geneva deal (because it is good for Israel). Call off the AIPAC bloodhounds from Capitol Hill. Support Obama. Mend the relations with the US administration. And, most importantly, send out feelers to Iran to change, ever so slowly, our mutual relations.

History shows that yesterday’s friends may be today’s enemies, and today’s enemies can be tomorrow’s allies. It already happened once between Iran and us. Apart from ideology, there is no real clash of interests between the two nations.

We need a change of leadership, like the one Iran has begun to embark on. Unfortunately, all Israeli politicians, left and right, have joined the March of Fools. Not a single establishment voice has been raised against it. The new Labor Party leader, Yitzhak Herzog, is part of it as much as Ya’ir Lapid and Tzipi Livni.

As they say in Yiddish: The fools would have been amusing, if they had not been our fools.

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Well, folks , how you doin


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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: U.S. Foreign Policy

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

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Representative Duncan Hunter (R-CA) - a sitting member of the House Armed Services committee - says U.S. SHOULD NUKE IRAN



kHP1LXWOOoI


answer to that would be : pick your city


KtX2QrDIt9M


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Re: U.S. Foreign Policy

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IF I had a hammer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bo ... oject_Thor

The only problem is that in hitting a nuclear reactor it would be hard to tell the difference between a Rod from God and a nuke given the radiation of the reactor. The Wiki seems to be out of date BTW.
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Re: U.S. Foreign Policy

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Seymour Hersh :
Obama lied about the chemical weapons attack that killed hundreds of Syrians in August



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In the months before the attack, the American intelligence agencies produced a series of highly classified reports, culminating in a formal Operations Order – a planning document that precedes a ground invasion – citing evidence that the al-Nusra Front, a jihadi group affiliated with al-Qaida, had mastered the mechanics of creating sarin and was capable of manufacturing it in quantity. When the attack occurred al-Nusra should have been a suspect, but the administration cherry-picked intelligence to justify a strike against Assad.

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obama = liar.......

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


Seymour Hersh :
Obama lied about the chemical weapons attack that killed hundreds of Syrians in August



.

In the months before the attack, the American intelligence agencies produced a series of highly classified reports, culminating in a formal Operations Order – a planning document that precedes a ground invasion – citing evidence that the al-Nusra Front, a jihadi group affiliated with al-Qaida, had mastered the mechanics of creating sarin and was capable of manufacturing it in quantity. When the attack occurred al-Nusra should have been a suspect, but the administration cherry-picked intelligence to justify a strike against Assad.

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Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

If true........

No surprise
To see obama lie
If his lips or his hands are moving.....

Likewise DemocRATS in CONgress.....
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Re: U.S. Foreign Policy

Post by Ibrahim »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


Seymour Hersh :
Obama lied about the chemical weapons attack that killed hundreds of Syrians in August



.

In the months before the attack, the American intelligence agencies produced a series of highly classified reports, culminating in a formal Operations Order – a planning document that precedes a ground invasion – citing evidence that the al-Nusra Front, a jihadi group affiliated with al-Qaida, had mastered the mechanics of creating sarin and was capable of manufacturing it in quantity. When the attack occurred al-Nusra should have been a suspect, but the administration cherry-picked intelligence to justify a strike against Assad.

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What a joke. Al Qaeda developed both the production facilities and delivery vehicles for chemicals weapons. They were behind the attack, not the military dictatorship that has possessed those weapons for decades and was under threat. Not only that, but al Qaeda hasn't used chemical weapons elsewhere. This capability was only developed and deployed in the chaos of a civil war, not in the many terrorist attacks they've planned for months and executed against static targets.

Some people will believe anything.
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Re: obama = liar.......

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

monster_gardener wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


Seymour Hersh :
Obama lied about the chemical weapons attack that killed hundreds of Syrians in August



.

In the months before the attack, the American intelligence agencies produced a series of highly classified reports, culminating in a formal Operations Order – a planning document that precedes a ground invasion – citing evidence that the al-Nusra Front, a jihadi group affiliated with al-Qaida, had mastered the mechanics of creating sarin and was capable of manufacturing it in quantity. When the attack occurred al-Nusra should have been a suspect, but the administration cherry-picked intelligence to justify a strike against Assad.

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Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

If true........


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Confirmed by Swiss papers

Der amerikanische Enthüllungsjournalist Seymour Hersh beschuldigt die Regierung Obama, geheimdienstliche Informationen über den Giftgasangriff auf syrische Zivilisten im August in einem Vorort von Damaskus manipuliert zu haben.

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obama = liar........ Again & Again & Again........

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


Seymour Hersh :
Obama lied about the chemical weapons attack that killed hundreds of Syrians in August



.

In the months before the attack, the American intelligence agencies produced a series of highly classified reports, culminating in a formal Operations Order – a planning document that precedes a ground invasion – citing evidence that the al-Nusra Front, a jihadi group affiliated with al-Qaida, had mastered the mechanics of creating sarin and was capable of manufacturing it in quantity. When the attack occurred al-Nusra should have been a suspect, but the administration cherry-picked intelligence to justify a strike against Assad.

.
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Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

If true........


.


Confirmed by Swiss papers

Der amerikanische Enthüllungsjournalist Seymour Hersh beschuldigt die Regierung Obama, geheimdienstliche Informationen über den Giftgasangriff auf syrische Zivilisten im August in einem Vorort von Damaskus manipuliert zu haben.

.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

Again........

No surprise
To see obama lie
If his lips or his hands are moving.....
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Re:

Post by Ibrahim »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:

Confirmed by Swiss papers

Der amerikanische Enthüllungsjournalist Seymour Hersh beschuldigt die Regierung Obama, geheimdienstliche Informationen über den Giftgasangriff auf syrische Zivilisten im August in einem Vorort von Damaskus manipuliert zu haben.

.

This is not a confirmation. They are simply repeating the Hersh story. What Hersh is saying is that is possible that al Qaeda produced and deployed chemical weapons in Syria rather than the Assad regime. There is no evidence that this is actually the case.

Also these musing belong in the Syria thread.
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Re: Re:

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Ibrahim wrote:.

Also these musing belong in the Syria thread.

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f*ck Syria :)

emphesiz here is on "obama a lier", to make Monster, Doc, MP happy :lol:

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Re: U.S. Foreign Policy

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

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NYT - Op-Ed Contributor


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Iran, From Enemy to Ally

THE recent nuclear deal with Iran has caused a predictable furor among Middle East hawks. But it offers an opportunity for a much bigger breakthrough: rapprochement and, eventually, even strategic cooperation with Iran.

America must now begin to think about a gradual realignment of its Middle East policy, . .

..

Iran, which sits between the Caspian Sea and the Persian Gulf, can check Chinese access to critical energy sources, while acting as a buffer against an ever-truculent Russia.

..

Iran currently opposes the United States in all those conflicts — largely because of historical enmity with Washington rather than ideological hostility alone.

..

Saudi Arabia’s opposition doesn’t really matter as much these days. The United States built its ties with the Saudis on a need for oil that no longer exists to the same degree; the relationship is artificial and anachronistic.

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Israel, like Saudi Arabia, fiercely objects to the nuclear deal. But that’s shortsighted. Détente between Iran and America could be good for Israel in the long run. Both the Jewish state and the Persian Shiite state are outsiders in a predominantly Sunni Arab Middle East. They were allies before 1979.

..

Even after the overthrow of the shah and the subsequent hostage crisis, Israel lobbied hard for the new Islamic Republic in Washington.

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No matter how many peace treaties are signed with Arab leaders, only Iran has proved it can work with Israel. Moreover, Iran cannot be contained forever . .

..

The Iranian people are the West’s biggest asset.

..

The country has a strong tradition of constitutionalism stretching back more than 100 years and its citizens are sympathetic to American-style democracy ..


..

The 21st-century Middle East is a new and dangerous place. To lead the region into a better future, Washington must adapt and leave old enmities behind.

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:D


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Re: U.S. Foreign Policy

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

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339430_Syria-chemical-attack.jpg
339430_Syria-chemical-attack.jpg (40.22 KiB) Viewed 1786 times


Who has this children's blood on his hand ? ? ? ?


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http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/12/11 ... syria-war/

In an article published in the London Review of Books on Sunday, the Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist wrote that Obama did his best to hold the Syrian government responsible for the deadly attack by “omitting important facts” even though he knew well that the attack is to blame on the al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra Front.

Hersh noted that in some instances, the US president “presented assumptions as facts” in a bid to “justify a strike against Assad.”

The US journalist pointed to a series of highly classified reports prepared by the American intelligence agencies several months before the attack, saying that Obama deliberately ignored the reports which revealed that the al-Nusra Front “had mastered the mechanics of creating sarin [nerve gas] and was capable of manufacturing it in quantity.”


Hersh went on to say that according to a high-level intelligence officer, Obama meticulously “altered the available information” with regard to sarin gas -- a nerve agent, which based on the findings of a UN investigation team, was used in the chemical attack near Damascus -- to find an excuse for bombing Syria.

In a televised speech on September 10, Obama accused the Syrian government of carrying out the chemical attack which killed hundreds of people, including women and children, on August 21.

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Re: U.S. Foreign Policy

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

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Bravo, Obama, Bravo : U.S. Suspends Aid to Syrian Rebels After Islamist Attack

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The decision was made after moderate Syrian rebel forces reporting to Gen. Salim Idris, the nominal head of the rebel Free Syrian Army, came under attack last week from fighters aligned with Al Qaeda, according to an account provided by an American official.

The Islamic Front, an alliance of rebel fighters that has broken with General Idris’s moderate opposition but opposes the Qaeda affiliate in Syria, joined the fray, the American official said.

After the dust cleared, the Islamic Front appeared to have taken control of warehouses in Atmeh that contain equipment and supplies provided by the United States, added the American official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was discussing internal reports.

The first reports of military actions are often confused and inexact. But it seems clear that American officials are concerned that some aid has indeed fallen into the wrong hands.

“We have seen reports that Islamic Front forces have seized the Atmeh headquarters and warehouses,” a State Department official said.

“As a result of this situation, the United States has suspended all further deliveries of nonlethal assistance into northern Syria,” the official added. “The humanitarian aid to the Syrian people is not impacted by this suspension.”

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Re: Why Canada and the U.S. Should Merge

Post by Doc »

Ibrahim wrote:
Doc wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Doc wrote:Apparently Ibrahim thinks all the fun is for him.

This personal attack doesn't even make any sense, and isn't on topic. You're one of the worst posters on the forum, and have quite nearly made it unreadable.
Nether do the personal attacks you make on me. But the bottom line is you supported action that lead to the killing of children in Libya.
Disgusting and frankly stupid lie. Gaddafi and his family stated quite openly that they were going to stage mass reprisals on the rebels, "clearing" neighborhoods "street by street." The NATO intervention effectively crippling Gaddafi's heavy equipment prevented him from doing that, saving, if Syria is anything to go by, tens of thousands of civilian lives above whatever number would have been lost attacking Gaddafi's aircraft and artillery.

Compare this to the Iraq war, which was motivated by greed, instigated by lying governments in the US and England, and caused the avoidable deaths of tens of thousands of civilians, not to mention US torture practices conducted therein.

So the comparison, or the argument that by supporting the Libyan intervention I was supporting rather than preventing civilian casualties, has got to be one of the dumbest yet to appear on this forum.
Saddam clearly told Iraqis that "The hand that waves(At coalition troops) gets cut off. How is that any different for Ghaddafi? Thousands died in Libya and as we have seen they are still dying from violence. All those lives would have been "Avoidable" had Obama not given the green light to bomb the hell out of Libya.

IE you are rationalizing the difference.

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Re: Why Canada and the U.S. Should Merge

Post by Ibrahim »

Doc wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Doc wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Doc wrote:Apparently Ibrahim thinks all the fun is for him.

This personal attack doesn't even make any sense, and isn't on topic. You're one of the worst posters on the forum, and have quite nearly made it unreadable.
Nether do the personal attacks you make on me. But the bottom line is you supported action that lead to the killing of children in Libya.
Disgusting and frankly stupid lie. Gaddafi and his family stated quite openly that they were going to stage mass reprisals on the rebels, "clearing" neighborhoods "street by street." The NATO intervention effectively crippling Gaddafi's heavy equipment prevented him from doing that, saving, if Syria is anything to go by, tens of thousands of civilian lives above whatever number would have been lost attacking Gaddafi's aircraft and artillery.

Compare this to the Iraq war, which was motivated by greed, instigated by lying governments in the US and England, and caused the avoidable deaths of tens of thousands of civilians, not to mention US torture practices conducted therein.

So the comparison, or the argument that by supporting the Libyan intervention I was supporting rather than preventing civilian casualties, has got to be one of the dumbest yet to appear on this forum.
Saddam clearly told Iraqis that "The hand that waves(At coalition troops) gets cut off. How is that any different for Ghaddafi?
a) Libyans started their own revolution against Gaddafi, and the NATO air campaign prevented Gaddafi from using aircraft and heavy artillery/armor to attack rebel population centers and kill civilians.

b) The second Iraq war was started under false pretenses, and US forces directly caises thousands upon thousands of civilians casualties, not to mention torture, before we even discuss the larger number of civilians casualties from all causes as a result of the war.

c) As for regime reprisals, Saddam Hussein did indeed murder thousands of civilians after the first Iraq war, after they rose up to aid US forces, and were then abandoned and Saddam left in power.


Thousands died in Libya and as we have seen they are still dying from violence. All those lives would have been "Avoidable" had Obama not given the green light to bomb the hell out of Libya.


That is false. Gaddafi would have mass murdered civilians in Benghazi, as he vowed to do, and as Assad has done in Syria. The Libyan intervention prevented that. You hate Obama so much that you are dishonestly misrepresenting the facts. I hate Obama but still recognize that the Libyan intervention (which was a French idea anyway) actually saved thousands of civilians lives.
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Re: Why Canada and the U.S. Should Merge

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

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Come on folks, come on

Qaddafi ruled 40 yrs AND murdered nobody except those "terrorists" CIA send him to kill :lol:

This whole Libya sh*t was for French to get "free Oil" .. what is now happening, western mercenary are protecting the oil wells, Oil being lifted without any "metering" let alone paying, and, the rest, pls be my guest, you kill each other as many you want, the more the better

poor Qaddafi

Those Amirs and Kings, if smart, they would fake some medical issue, pack and leave to NY and London AND don't come back, otherwise, Saddam, Qaddafi, here we come

the rest, just music, Ibrahim & Doc

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Re: Why Canada and the U.S. Should Merge

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Ibrahim wrote: That is false. Gaddafi would have mass murdered civilians in Benghazi,
This is unknown and completely speculative. No different than a neocon arguing invading Iraq would save hundreds of thousands of US lives. Or an Israeli arguing that a strike on Iranian nuclear sites would save Israel herself. Your argument is no different than theirs.
as he vowed to do, and as Assad has done in Syria. The Libyan intervention prevented that. You hate Obama so much that you are dishonestly misrepresenting the facts. I hate Obama but still recognize that the Libyan intervention (which was a French idea anyway) actually saved thousands of civilians lives.
This is a complete unknown.
Censorship isn't necessary
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Re: Why Canada and the U.S. Should Merge

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:This whole Libya sh*t was for French to get "free Oil"
Hmmm get "free oil".... Isn't that also known as "Greed" ;)

But the first time the US went to Iraq Bush senior was shameful in calling on the Shiites to revolt then ordering US troops to stand by and watch as they were murdered by Saddam. But the second time around when the intention really was to remove Saddam it was all about greed.

Hmmm something off with that logic.
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Re: U.S. Foreign Policy

Post by Ibrahim »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ng-13.html
U.S. drone strike hits wedding party killing 15 people, Yemeni officials say
Party was mistaken for an al Qaeda convoy, local security officials said on Thursday
15 people died and 5 more were injured, according to local reports
Department of Defense made no comment on Thursday



Yemeni officials said today that a U.S. drone strike has hit a convoy heading to wedding party, killing 15 people.

Their party was mistaken for an al Qaeda convoy, local security officials said on Thursday.

The officials did not identify the plane in the strike in central al-Bayda province, but tribal and local media sources said that it was a drone.

'An air strike missed its target and hit a wedding car convoy, ten people were killed immediately and another five who were injured died after being admitted to the hospital,' one security official said.

Five more people were injured, the officials said.

Department of Defense made no comment when contacted by MailOnline on Thursday.

REUTERS
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Re: Why Canada and the U.S. Should Merge

Post by Ibrahim »

Doc wrote:But the first time the US went to Iraq Bush senior was shameful in calling on the Shiites to revolt then ordering US troops to stand by and watch as they were murdered by Saddam. But the second time around when the intention really was to remove Saddam it was all about greed.

Hmmm something off with that logic.
The US and UK government lied about the justification for the war, and private US companies with connections to the Bush II administration were awarded billions in no-bid contracts during the occupation.


Even if you assume that French instigation of the NATO intervention in Libya was self-interested, the result is still that Gaddafi was prevented from deploying his air force and heavy artillery/armor against the civilian population centers that rose up against his regime. Its still results in fewer civilian casualties.


The total abandonment of Iraqi Kurds and Shiites encouraged to rise up against Saddam in the aftermath of the first Iraq war is a separate subject, but obviously deeply immoral and cowardly.
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Re: Why Canada and the U.S. Should Merge

Post by Doc »

Ibrahim wrote:
Doc wrote:But the first time the US went to Iraq Bush senior was shameful in calling on the Shiites to revolt then ordering US troops to stand by and watch as they were murdered by Saddam. But the second time around when the intention really was to remove Saddam it was all about greed.

Hmmm something off with that logic.
The US and UK government lied about the justification for the war, and private US companies with connections to the Bush II administration were awarded billions in no-bid contracts during the occupation.


Which is what the French and EU in fact did. They are the users of Libyan oil.

As for theUS and Iraq -- Actually Cheney was accused of giving his former company Haliburton a no bid contract for future profits he might receive Which he in turn gave all away to charities. So in effect Michael Moore had made a killing on his Haliburton stock (HE own several thousand shares as I recall) than Dick Cheney did.

Even if you assume that French instigation of the NATO intervention in Libya was self-interested, the result is still that Gaddafi was prevented from deploying his air force and heavy artillery/armor against the civilian population centers that rose up against his regime. Its still results in fewer civilian casualties.
Which is the same argument for invading Iraq

The total abandonment of Iraqi Kurds and Shiites encouraged to rise up against Saddam in the aftermath of the first Iraq war is a separate subject, but obviously deeply immoral and cowardly.
We agree on that least. Everyone now says they believed Saddam would be over thrown. But he was not. But since the Saudis were paying for the war Bush I was not interested in removing Saddam as he had agreed with the Saudis not to remove him in return for them ponying up several 10s of billions for the war.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: U.S. Foreign Policy

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Ibrahim wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ng-13.html
U.S. drone strike hits wedding party killing 15 people, Yemeni officials say
Party was mistaken for an al Qaeda convoy, local security officials said on Thursday
15 people died and 5 more were injured, according to local reports
Department of Defense made no comment on Thursday



Yemeni officials said today that a U.S. drone strike has hit a convoy heading to wedding party, killing 15 people.

Their party was mistaken for an al Qaeda convoy, local security officials said on Thursday.

The officials did not identify the plane in the strike in central al-Bayda province, but tribal and local media sources said that it was a drone.

'An air strike missed its target and hit a wedding car convoy, ten people were killed immediately and another five who were injured died after being admitted to the hospital,' one security official said.

Five more people were injured, the officials said.

Department of Defense made no comment when contacted by MailOnline on Thursday.

REUTERS

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Ibrahim, don't waste your energy

That 9/11 was a US government stunt to get "card blanch" from Joe to kill millions .. that 9/11 was for American Joe to feel comfortable killing

Am astonished you still not getting it .. that POS saying it was worth murdering half a million Iraqi children and you still beating around the bush with Doc

Come on , how many children, Jewish and otherwise did Hitler kill ? ? not than many that POS says was worth killing

How can you argue with these kind of mindset

let go, man, let go .. you not gonna prove anything .. you not only not on the same page, not only not reading same book, not only in same city, rather you on different planet.


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