The Case for Reparations

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Typhoon
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Typhoon »

Apollonius wrote:Zack,


You live in the city where the New York Times is published. They post a feature article with a race angle every single day. It's a New York obsession with the city's chattering classes.
The obsession with race and ethnicity was one of the irritating aspects of living in the USA in an otherwise good experience.
Apollonius wrote:
Your experience is bound to be radically different from mine. Vancouver is every bit as multi-cultural as New York City, yet you rarely hear about race. Canada does have a history of actions by the government which would be considered highly objectionable by current standards, such as the Head Tax imposed on many Asian immigrants. By current standards almost all human life on Planet Earth was highly objectionable fifty or one hundred years ago.

Yet we find other things to talk about. Music, gardening, hiking up a mountain, or even getting a decent job paying job now that no one pays head tax anymore and instead people pay to get into the country through immigrant "investment" or "business start-up" plans . It's too bad Americans don't talk about the weather more often.
Consistent with my experience.

Odd that the "melting pot" USA is obsessed with race and ethnicity, while "multicultural" Canada much less so.

As an aside, the 2nd gen plus blacks I interacted with in Canada spoke with a typically standard Canadian accent, rather than some [difficult for me to understand] variant of ebonics.
Apollonius wrote:Anything but why you think someone else owes you an apology for something you probably never heard of, had absolutely nothing to do with, and almost certainly isn't the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth anyway.
One could argue that "reparations" were what Johnson's "Great Society" was about -> Law of Unintended Consequences.

It always seems much easier to hang on to historical grievances than enjoy what we have today and build a better future.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Simple Minded

Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Simple Minded »

Typhoon wrote:
Consistent with my experience.

Odd that the "melting pot" USA is obsessed with race and ethnicity, while "multicultural" Canada much less so.

As an aside, the 2nd gen plus blacks I interacted with in Canada spoke with a typically standard Canadian accent, rather than some [difficult for me to understand] variant of ebonics.
I'm curious Typhoon, did you find it more difficult to understand white, rural rednecks speaking Ebonics, or black urban rednecks speaking Ebonics?

Black Rednecks and White Liberals
http://insider.washtimes.com/articles/n ... 4715-5841r
BY Thomas Sowell / May 13, 2005

Black identity has become a hot item in the movies, on television and in schools and colleges. But few are aware of how much of what passes as black identity today, including “black English,” has its roots in the history of those whites called “rednecks” and “crackers” centuries ago in Britain, before they crossed the Atlantic and settled in the South.

Saying “acrost” for “across” or “ax” for “ask” are today considered part of black English. But this way of talking was common centuries ago in regions of Britain from which white Southerners came. They brought with them more than their dialect. They brought a whole way of life that made antebellum white Southerners very different from white Northerners.

Violence was far more common in the South — and in those parts of Britain from which Southerners came. So was illegitimacy, lively music and dance, and a style of religious oratory marked by strident rhetoric, unbridled emotions, and flamboyant imagery. All of this would become part of the cultural legacy of blacks, who lived for centuries in the midst of the redneck culture of the South.

That culture was as notable for what it did not have as for what it had. It did not emphasize education, for example, or intellectual interests in general.

Illiteracy was far more common among whites in the antebellum South than among whites in the North, and of course the blacks held in bondage in the South were virtually all illiterate. On into the early 20th century, Southern whites scored lower on mental tests than whites in other parts of the country, as blacks continued to do.

Many aspects of Southern life some observers have attributed to race or racism, or to slavery, were common to Southern blacks and whites alike — and were common in those parts of Britain from which Southern whites came, where there were no slaves and most people had never seen a black person.

Most Southern blacks and whites moved away from that redneck culture over the generations, as its consequences proved counterproductive or even disastrous. But it survives today among the poorest and least educated ghetto blacks.

This is a much bigger story than can fit into a newspaper column, which is why I wrote my latest book, “Black Rednecks and White Liberals.”

White liberals come into this story because, since the 1960s, they have aided and abetted a counterproductive ghetto lifestyle that is essentially a remnant of the redneck culture that handicapped Southern whites and blacks alike for generations. Many among the intelligentsia portray the black redneck culture today as the only “authentic” black culture and even glamorize it. They denounce any criticism of the ghetto lifestyle or any attempt to change it.

Teachers are not supposed to correct black youngsters who speak “black English” and no one is supposed to be judgmental about the whole lifestyle of black rednecks. In that culture, belligerence is considered manly and crudity is considered cool, while being civilized is regarded as “acting white.”

These are devastating, self-imposed handicaps that prevent many young ghetto blacks from getting a decent education or an opportunity to rise.

Multiculturalism today celebrates all cultures. But the poor ultimately pay the price of that celebration in stunted development, missed opportunities and blighted lives.

No one today would dare to do what Northern missionaries did after the Civil War, set up schools for newly freed black children in the South with the explicit purpose of removing them from the redneck culture holding back both races there.

A wholly disproportionate number of future black leaders and pioneers in many fields came out of the relatively few and small enclaves of Northern culture deliberately planted in the post-Civil War South. What they did worked, and what the multiculturalists are doing today repeatedly fails.

But results are no longer the test. The test is whether what you say makes you feel good as someone who is a “friend” of blacks. But friends like that can do more damage than enemies.

THE REDNECK PROBLEM
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedc ... /46602.htm
BY William Raspberry / May 17, 2005

The plight of have-not blacks in America’s urban ghettos, says economist Thomas Sowell, can be laid at the feet of white people.

And not just any white folks. The culprits are that particular breed of white people known as “rednecks.”
If you’ve followed the writings of Sowell for as long as I have, you’ll know that he’s not saying anything as simple as racism accounts for today’s black poverty. He’s saying something much more complex and, to my mind, far more intriguing.

Immigration from the British Isles to the New World was not so random as many of us imagine. Most of the settlers of Massachusetts, for instance, came from near Haverhill in East Anglia. Virginia aristocrats came from the south and west of England.

And the Deep South was populated largely by immigrants from the northern borderlands, Ulster and the Scottish Highlands — from “among people who were called ‘rednecks’ and ‘crackers’ in Britain before they ever saw America.” And these are the people who formed the culture — the speech patterns, preaching styles, social behaviors, propensity for violence and attitudes toward schooling — that became the culture of Southern blacks, Sowell claims in his new book, “Black Rednecks and White Liberals.”

And it is this cultural heritage, he argues, “more so than survivals of African cultures,” that has produced the urban black culture of today.

So what? So this, says Sowell: The redneck culture has been a developmental millstone for both blacks and whites imbued in it — witness the lower academic achievement in the Deep South.

But he says it has been preserved most faithfully in the black ghettos — just as the French spoken in Quebec retains formulations now considered archaic in France. Indeed, in a fascinating switcheroo, the redneck culture has become, to many of its defenders, the authentic black culture and, on that account, sacrosanct.

And it continues to be a millstone, though many of the penalties it extracts are blamed on racism.

But as Sowell argues — and has been arguing for decades — the racism explanation cannot account for differential outcomes among blacks from within and without the redneck culture. For instance, a recent study found that most of Harvard’s black alumni were either from the Caribbean or Africa or were children of Caribbean or African immigrants.
Simple Minded

Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Simple Minded »

Typhoon wrote:
Odd that the "melting pot" USA is obsessed with race and ethnicity, while "multicultural" Canada much less so.
In my experience most 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. generation Americans have a story of the patriarch or matriarch of the immigrant generation, shortly after reaching America, decreeing with an iron fist: "We came here to be Americans! From now on, we only speak English!"

Since multi-culti became hip a decade or so ago, and since identity politics became lucrative, perhaps a decade or two before that, America is not surprisingly, a lot less of a melting pot that it used to be.

When the host culture is deemed to be less attractive (or less advantageous) than one's previous culture, why switch?
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Typhoon »

Simple Minded wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Consistent with my experience.

Odd that the "melting pot" USA is obsessed with race and ethnicity, while "multicultural" Canada much less so.

As an aside, the 2nd gen plus blacks I interacted with in Canada spoke with a typically standard Canadian accent, rather than some [difficult for me to understand] variant of ebonics.
I'm curious Typhoon, did you find it more difficult to understand white, rural rednecks speaking Ebonics, or black urban rednecks speaking Ebonics?
Both were difficult to understand at first. I even had trouble with the Chicago accent leading to some amusing exchanges.

Dated a girl from the South for a while so I came to understand the strong Southern accent which I quite like.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Apollonius wrote:The issue of reparations, at least in the broader context of New World slavery, has been discussed here:


viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2697




That's where you will find my two cents worth.



Here are some interesting details about specifically American slavery that most people are unacquainted with:


Black history they don't want you to know - DailyKenn, 2 May 2012
http://dailykenn.blogspot.ca/2012/05/2- ... first.html




It is actually unlikely that the first slave owner in colonial America was in fact a black person, as is reported here. Someone has provided some sources in the comments which document the actual state of our knowledge.



However, the piece is still interesting because of the many other little known snippets of history that it gets right. Even the first case, while technically not the first slaveholder, does shed some light on how the institution got started in America and does reveal how the history of slavery is far more nuanced than what you were told in school or heard on a History Channel program.

The part about all the large number of black slaveholders is very well documented, and it's good to remember that a black person in the U.S. is actually more likely to be descended from a slaveholder than a white person! Remember: not one white person in a hundred has a slaveholder in their ancestry.

The most basic piece of information is the part that most people still can't quite wrap their minds around, which is that virtually all slaves were sold to Europeans by other Africans. In the comments section there is mention of how the stereotypical cotton plantation was actually a short-lived phenomenon dating from sometime after the invention of the cotton gin. The point is well made that before then, slavery in the U.S. was concentrated in domestic endeavours without the long hours in the field and the sepraration of families that industrialization of agriculture entailed (something that had similar consequences for "free" white workers as well).



No one seems to have added that plantation slavery was by no means absent in Africa. Several West African states practiced it on a massive scale. The worst working conditions were then, as now, in the mines, a negligible part of the American slavery experience, but prominent in parts of Africa.



I especially liked the part about how Native Indian Americans were very well represented in the Confederate Army and how the last general to surrender to Union forces was a Cherokee chief!


The statistics on lynching, a loaded word if there ever was one, are something I've looked into before, and are also interesting. No details here, but the image in people's minds is that these poor fellows were innocent victims of "racism". But usually, of course, this was not really the case. The great majority had committed heinous crimes. And as the article says, in most states, most lynchings were of white guys
Apollonius,

How do you account for most of your examples being derived from Louisana- which was culturally different from the rest of the American South?

As for lynching, it should be noted that the biggest lynch mob in US history was racially motivated- against Sicilians. Twelve or Thirteen Sicilian men were hung for the a crime they did not commit and were found not-guilty of in courts. We know of their innocence because the perpetrators were apprehended sometime later. The whole incident was met, and is still met, with ambivalence.
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Should Private Citizens Lynch Mafia Members?

Post by monster_gardener »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Apollonius wrote:The issue of reparations, at least in the broader context of New World slavery, has been discussed here:


viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2697




That's where you will find my two cents worth.



Here are some interesting details about specifically American slavery that most people are unacquainted with:


Black history they don't want you to know - DailyKenn, 2 May 2012
http://dailykenn.blogspot.ca/2012/05/2- ... first.html




It is actually unlikely that the first slave owner in colonial America was in fact a black person, as is reported here. Someone has provided some sources in the comments which document the actual state of our knowledge.



However, the piece is still interesting because of the many other little known snippets of history that it gets right. Even the first case, while technically not the first slaveholder, does shed some light on how the institution got started in America and does reveal how the history of slavery is far more nuanced than what you were told in school or heard on a History Channel program.

The part about all the large number of black slaveholders is very well documented, and it's good to remember that a black person in the U.S. is actually more likely to be descended from a slaveholder than a white person! Remember: not one white person in a hundred has a slaveholder in their ancestry.

The most basic piece of information is the part that most people still can't quite wrap their minds around, which is that virtually all slaves were sold to Europeans by other Africans. In the comments section there is mention of how the stereotypical cotton plantation was actually a short-lived phenomenon dating from sometime after the invention of the cotton gin. The point is well made that before then, slavery in the U.S. was concentrated in domestic endeavours without the long hours in the field and the sepraration of families that industrialization of agriculture entailed (something that had similar consequences for "free" white workers as well).



No one seems to have added that plantation slavery was by no means absent in Africa. Several West African states practiced it on a massive scale. The worst working conditions were then, as now, in the mines, a negligible part of the American slavery experience, but prominent in parts of Africa.



I especially liked the part about how Native Indian Americans were very well represented in the Confederate Army and how the last general to surrender to Union forces was a Cherokee chief!


The statistics on lynching, a loaded word if there ever was one, are something I've looked into before, and are also interesting. No details here, but the image in people's minds is that these poor fellows were innocent victims of "racism". But usually, of course, this was not really the case. The great majority had committed heinous crimes. And as the article says, in most states, most lynchings were of white guys
Apollonius,

How do you account for most of your examples being derived from Louisana- which was culturally different from the rest of the American South?

As for lynching, it should be noted that the biggest lynch mob in US history was racially motivated- against Sicilians. Twelve or Thirteen Sicilian men were hung for the a crime they did not commit and were found not-guilty of in courts. We know of their innocence because the perpetrators were apprehended sometime later. The whole incident was met, and is still met, with ambivalence.
Thank You Very MUCH for your post, NapLajoieonSteroids

Been a long time since I read about this one.....
Twelve or Thirteen Sicilian men were hung for the a crime they did not commit
Maybe.....
and were found not-guilty of in courts.
That is true.

But being found not-guilty doe NOT mean that one is innocent. Just that the jury was not convinced of guilt beyond a reason doubt. And that is if the system is functioning properly....
We know of their innocence because the perpetrators were apprehended sometime later.
Please tell more....

FWIW the Wikipedia entry does not seem to indicate this. Perhaps it needs an addendum giving an alternate point of view....

Right now the impression that I have is that at least some of them were guilty/participated in the murder of Police Chief Hennessy BUT IMVHO that does NOT justify the lynching....
Legacy

The death of Hennessy became a rallying cry for law enforcement and nativists to stop the immigration of Italians into America. For decades after, New Orleans children of other ethnicities would often taunt Italian-Americans with the phrase, "Who kill-a the chief?"

The murder of Hennessy had been in keeping with the Mafia custom of killing any government official who dared cross them. However, the backlash made the leaders of the nascent American Mafia realize that killing a policeman would generate far too much heat, unlike in Italy. Since then, it has been a hard and fast rule that policemen and other law enforcement officials are not to be harmed.

The Matranga gang developed into the New Orleans crime family, with Charles Matranga as boss until he retired in 1922.

The whole incident was met, and is still met, with ambivalence.
Quite correct.....

Should Private Citizens Lynch Mafia Members?

IMHO, No.....

At least not usually....

Innocent people can get killed too by mistake....

Not that I care that much if Mafia members kill each other as long as it is just that... :twisted:

Unless that leaves the worse perp now the Boss :roll:



Entire Wiki below or click the link above:

David C. Hennessy (1858 – October 16, 1890) was a police chief of New Orleans, Louisiana. His assassination in 1890 led to a sensational trial. A group of not guilty verdicts shocked the nation, and an enormous mob formed outside the prison the next day. The prison doors were forced open and 11 of 19 Italian men who had been indicted for Hennessy's murder were lynched. The leaders of the mob justified the lynching by claiming the jury had been bribed, but only six of those lynched had been put on trial. In addition to the 11 lynch victims, five prisoners were severely wounded in the attack and died soon afterwards. Charles Mantranga, believed to be a ringleader, survived. A grand jury investigated and cleared those involved in the lynching. The word "Mafia" entered U.S. popular usage due to newspaper coverage of the trial and lynchings. The U.S. government paid a $25,000 indemnity to Italy to repair and restore broken relations due to the anti-Italian sentiment raging across America.[1] The lynchings were the subject of the 1999 made-for-TV movie Vendetta, starring Christopher Walken.

Contents

1 Biography
1.1 Early life
1.2 Assassination
2 Aftermath
3 Legacy
4 See also
5 References
6 Further reading
7 External links

Biography
Early life

David C. Hennessy was born to Margaret and David Hennessy Sr., 275 Girod St., New Orleans.[2] David Sr. was a member of the First Louisiana Cavalry of the Union Army during the U.S. Civil War. After the war, he was a member of the Metropolitan Police, a New Orleans force under the authority of the governor of Louisiana. This force was considered a form of occupation army by local white supremacists because they protected the right of African-Americans to vote, in accordance with the Fifteenth Amendment. David Sr was murdered in a barroom (described as a coffeehouse by the Daily Picyune newspaper) in 1869 by a fellow member of the Metropolitan Police named Arthur Guerin, leaving young David fatherless at the age of eleven.
Artist's conception of the Hennessy's murder. "Scene of the Assassination", The Mascot, New Orleans, 1890.

Hennessy joined the New Orleans police force as a messenger in 1870. While only a teenager, he caught two adult thieves in the act, beat them with his bare hands, and dragged them to the police station. He made detective at the age of 20.

He arrested the internationally notorious Italian bandit and fugitive Giuseppe Esposito in 1881. Esposito was wanted in Italy for kidnapping a British tourist and cutting off his ear, among numerous other crimes. Esposito was deported to Italy, where he was given a life sentence.[3] In 1882, Hennessy was tried for the murder of New Orleans Chief of Detectives Thomas Devereaux. At the time, both men were candidates for the position of chief. Hennessy argued self-defense and was found not guilty.[4] Hennessy left the department afterwards and joined a private security firm given police powers by the city. He handled security for the New Orleans World Fair of 1884–1885.[5] The New York Times noted that Hennessy's men were, "neatly uniformed and are a fine-looking and intelligent body of men, far superior to the regular city force."[6]

The New Orleans waterfront became the scene of a violent rivalry between two Italian criminal factions called the Matrangas and the Provenzanos. Fruit importer Joseph Macheca was associated with the Matranga gang and was also a leader of the Italian community and active in the city's Democratic Party. In 1888, Joseph A. Shakspeare, the nominee of the Young Men's Democratic Association, won election as mayor of New Orleans with Republican support, ousting the regular Democrats, or "Ring" faction.[7] Shakspeare's supporters were also known as the "Reform" or "Bourbon" faction. Shakspeare promptly appointed Hennessy as his police chief.[2] Hennessy allied the police force with the Provenzanos so as to gain their testimony and support against the Matrangas, which he considered to be the more dangerous of the two factions.
Assassination

Hennessy was assassinated on October 15, 1890 outside his home as he was returning from a board meeting that had run late.[8] He was scheduled to give testimony at a trial of the Provenzanos later in the week and his killers may have wanted to prevent him from testifying. Macheca was immediately suspected as he had made threatening remarks about the chief prior to the assassination.[9] He had suffered losses at the hands of the Provenzanos and was anxious that they be convicted. The five weapons that were recovered all had unusual alterations made to them.[10] Several had hinges that allowed them to be folded up and concealed.[10] Hennessy was awake in the hospital for several hours after the shooting, and spoke to friends, but did not name shooters. The next day complications set in and he died. Hennessy's dying words, allegedly whispered to Captain William O’Connor, were, "Dagoes did it".
Aftermath
Hennessy memorial tomb

Hennessy's killing was the first widely publicized Mafia incident in the United States. The city's first response was to arrest 250 Italians in a broad sweep.[11] On October 18, the mayor appointed a "Committee of Fifty" to investigate the crime. This group sent a threatening letter to the Italian community and established a "system of secret and anonymous denunciation."[7] Some accusations may have been motivated by the desire to obtain reward money offered by the mayor.[7] A Pinkerton detective posed as a prisoner charged with counterfeiting so that the prisoners would talk to him candidly.[12] One of the prisoners, Emanuele Polizzi, told the detective that Macheca and Charles Mantranga, boss of the Matranga gang, were the ringleaders of the plot.[12]

Newspaper accounts at the time painted Macheca as the mastermind and claimed that Hennessy was about to expose Macheca's supposed counterfeiting and other rackets when he was killed.[13] Even Macheca's former allies in the Ring faction, such as machine boss James Houston, fell silent lest they be suspected as co-conspirators. On December 13, a grand jury indicted 19 Italians.[10] Six of these were associated with the Matranga gang, including Matranga and Macheca. The other 13 had no known criminal connections. Many of the names had been suggested by the Committee of Fifty. The grand jury foreman and one other juror were also members and financial contributors to this group.[14]

A trial for nine of the suspects took place February 16–March 13, 1891, with Judge Joshua G. Baker presiding. At the trial, it appeared that Polizzi was mentally deranged, so his testimony was discredited. Polizzi also tried to dive through the window of the sheriff's office, possibly in an attempt to avoid testifying.[15] Both O'Connor and Hennessy's bodyguard refused to testify. Mistrials were declared for three defendants: Antonio Scaffidi, Emmanuelle Polizzi, Pietro Monasterio. Not guilty verdicts were delivered for four: Joseph Macheca, Antonio Bagnetto, and Antonio Marchesi and Gasperi Marchesi. Matranga and Bastian Incardona, boss and second in command of the Matranga gang, were found not guilty by directed verdict, as no evidence had been presented against them.[16] Newspapers at the time blamed the outcome on bribery and jury tampering, although afterward the jurors themselves defended the verdicts and explained how they were based on evidence presented at trial.[10]
Rioters break into Parish Prison

William Parkerson, head of the Bourbon political machine, and several other members of the Committee of Fifty, responded to the verdicts by calling for a mass meeting at the city's statue of Henry Clay. No longer silent on this issue, Houston, as well as the pro-Ring Times-Democrat, fully participated in the incitement. While expressing the hope that the meeting would not turn into a mob, the newspaper editorialized, "Rise, outraged citizens of New Orleans!... Peaceably if you can, forcibly if you must!"[17] An extra edition distributed at the meeting featured the headline, "Who bribed the jury?"[17] Parkerson told the crowd that they needed to "remedy the failure of justice" that resulted from bribery of the jury. Shouting "Kill the Dagoes," a large crowd stormed Parish Prison. Eleven of the 19 men who had been indicted for Hennessy's murder were lynched. According to witnesses, the "cheers were deafening."

Although the thousands of demonstrators outside gave the sense that the event was a spontaneous outburst, the killings were in fact carried out by a relatively small, disciplined group organized by community leaders. There were probably about 150 vigilantes, and the actual killings were carried out by a 12-man "Execution Squad" led by Parkerson.[18] Those lynched were Polizzi (mistrial), Scaffidi (mistrial), Monasterio (mistrial), Macheca (acquitted), Antonio Marchesi (acquitted), Bagnetto (acquitted), Rocco Geraci (not tried), Frank Romero (not tried), Charles Traina (not tried), Loretto Comitz (not tried), and James Caruso (not tried). Matranga later claimed that he escaped the vigilantes by hiding under his mattress.[16] Incardona also survived.[16] The six who had been tried were selected because it was believed their jury was bribed. The other five victims were apparently just unlucky enough to be handy. Gasperi Marchesi, 14, had been tried and acquitted as the lookout, but was spared on the grounds that he was a boy following his father's orders.

The headline in The New York Times read, "Chief Hennessy avenged...Italian murderers shot down."[19] "The Italians had taken the law into their own hands and we had no choice but to do the same," said Mayor Shakspeare.[20] A survey of U.S. newspapers showed 42 in favor of the lynchings and another 58 opposed.[21] Opinion in the East and Midwest was strongly critical.[22] A grand jury refused to indict any individuals on the grounds that responsibility was collective because so many had participated.[7]

Following the lynching, American newspapers reported that Italy might retaliate with a naval attack on the United States.[23] Thousands of Americans volunteered for military service in response.[23] It was first time that popular feeling in North and South united on an issue since the Civil War.[23] The matter was eventually settled with the payment of a $25,000 indemnity. Shakspeare was narrowly defeated for reelection in 1892, with the Italian vote a decisive factor.[24]
Legacy

The death of Hennessy became a rallying cry for law enforcement and nativists to stop the immigration of Italians into America. For decades after, New Orleans children of other ethnicities would often taunt Italian-Americans with the phrase, "Who kill-a the chief?"

The murder of Hennessy had been in keeping with the Mafia custom of killing any government official who dared cross them. However, the backlash made the leaders of the nascent American Mafia realize that killing a policeman would generate far too much heat, unlike in Italy. Since then, it has been a hard and fast rule that policemen and other law enforcement officials are not to be harmed.

The Matranga gang developed into the New Orleans crime family, with Charles Matranga as boss until he retired in 1922.

Hennessy is buried in Metairie Cemetery, New Orleans
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

MG, perhaps you are right and my memory on the incident is faulty. I had a book around here somewhere; let me find it.
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NapLajoieonSteroid is an Honest Man...

Post by monster_gardener »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:MG, perhaps you are right and my memory on the incident is faulty. I had a book around here somewhere; let me find it.
Thank You VERY MUCH for your reply, NapLajoieonSteroids.

Thank You VERY MUCH for your Kind Words & Honesty.

You may be right.

I too only vaguely remembered the incident until I googled it.

And Wikipedia can be wrong at times.....

Till someone corrects it.....
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
Simple Minded

Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Simple Minded »

Typhoon wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Consistent with my experience.

Odd that the "melting pot" USA is obsessed with race and ethnicity, while "multicultural" Canada much less so.

As an aside, the 2nd gen plus blacks I interacted with in Canada spoke with a typically standard Canadian accent, rather than some [difficult for me to understand] variant of ebonics.
I'm curious Typhoon, did you find it more difficult to understand white, rural rednecks speaking Ebonics, or black urban rednecks speaking Ebonics?
Both were difficult to understand at first. I even had trouble with the Chicago accent leading to some amusing exchanges.

Dated a girl from the South for a while so I came to understand the strong Southern accent which I quite like.
Perfectly understandable. Being raised outside Rochester, NY, I had a tough time understanding more that a few words spoken by those from Long Island/NYC/NJ/CT.

One of our engineers from NC once called a company in Germany to get some information. The German he spoke to spoke English, but was difficult to understand. So after a few attempts to communicate, the German handed the phone to a co-worker who was American. Unfortunately, the American working for the German company was from NJ, and was even harder for the guy from NC to understand than the German.
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Typhoon »

yR0lWICH3rY
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: NapLajoieonSteroid is an Honest Man...

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

monster_gardener wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:MG, perhaps you are right and my memory on the incident is faulty. I had a book around here somewhere; let me find it.
Thank You VERY MUCH for your reply, NapLajoieonSteroids.

Thank You VERY MUCH for your Kind Words & Honesty.

You may be right.

I too only vaguely remembered the incident until I googled it.

And Wikipedia can be wrong at times.....

Till someone corrects it.....

MG,

You are right. I do not know what I was thinking about, I was perhaps conflating it with another incident.
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Re: NapLajoieonSteroids is an Honest Man...

Post by monster_gardener »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:MG, perhaps you are right and my memory on the incident is faulty. I had a book around here somewhere; let me find it.
Thank You VERY MUCH for your reply, NapLajoieonSteroids.

Thank You VERY MUCH for your Kind Words & Honesty.

You may be right.

I too only vaguely remembered the incident until I googled it.

And Wikipedia can be wrong at times.....

Till someone corrects it.....

MG,

You are right. I do not know what I was thinking about, I was perhaps conflating it with another incident.
Thank YOU VERY MUCH for your reply, NapLajoieonSteroids.

Thank You VERY MUCH for your Kind Words

And EVEN More for Your HONESTY.

If you remember what the incident was, please let us know.

Thanks Again,
Your Friend,
MG
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Doc
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Doc »

Apollonius wrote:The issue of reparations, at least in the broader context of New World slavery, has been discussed here:


viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2697




That's where you will find my two cents worth.



Here are some interesting details about specifically American slavery that most people are unacquainted with:


Black history they don't want you to know - DailyKenn, 2 May 2012
http://dailykenn.blogspot.ca/2012/05/2- ... first.html




It is actually unlikely that the first slave owner in colonial America was in fact a black person, as is reported here. Someone has provided some sources in the comments which document the actual state of our knowledge.



However, the piece is still interesting because of the many other little known snippets of history that it gets right. Even the first case, while technically not the first slaveholder, does shed some light on how the institution got started in America and does reveal how the history of slavery is far more nuanced than what you were told in school or heard on a History Channel program.

The part about all the large number of black slaveholders is very well documented, and it's good to remember that a black person in the U.S. is actually more likely to be descended from a slaveholder than a white person! Remember: not one white person in a hundred has a slaveholder in their ancestry.

The most basic piece of information is the part that most people still can't quite wrap their minds around, which is that virtually all slaves were sold to Europeans by other Africans. In the comments section there is mention of how the stereotypical cotton plantation was actually a short-lived phenomenon dating from sometime after the invention of the cotton gin. The point is well made that before then, slavery in the U.S. was concentrated in domestic endeavours without the long hours in the field and the sepraration of families that industrialization of agriculture entailed (something that had similar consequences for "free" white workers as well).



No one seems to have added that plantation slavery was by no means absent in Africa. Several West African states practiced it on a massive scale. The worst working conditions were then, as now, in the mines, a negligible part of the American slavery experience, but prominent in parts of Africa.



I especially liked the part about how Native Indian Americans were very well represented in the Confederate Army and how the last general to surrender to Union forces was a Cherokee chief!


The statistics on lynching, a loaded word if there ever was one, are something I've looked into before, and are also interesting. No details here, but the image in people's minds is that these poor fellows were innocent victims of "racism". But usually, of course, this was not really the case. The great majority had committed heinous crimes. And as the article says, in most states, most lynchings were of white guys
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f ... state.html

Lynching by state and ethnic background

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_i ... ted_States
The Tuskegee Institute has recorded 3,446 blacks and 1,297 whites being lynched between 1882 and 1968, with the annual peak occurring in the late 1800s, when Democrats acted to enforce white supremacy.[3]

African Americans mounted resistance to lynchings in numerous ways. Intellectuals and journalists encouraged public education, actively protesting and lobbying against lynch mob violence and government complicity in that violence. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), as well as numerous other organizations, organized support from white and black Americans alike and conducted a national campaign to get a federal anti-lynching law passed. African American women's clubs raised funds to support the work of public campaigns, including anti-lynching plays. Their petition drives, letter campaigns, meetings and demonstrations helped to highlight the issues and combat lynching.[4] In the Great Migration, extending in two waves from 1910 to 1970, 6.5 million African Americans left the South, primarily for destinations in northern and mid-western cities, both to gain better jobs and education and to escape the high rate of violence.

From 1882 to 1968, "...nearly 200 anti-lynching bills were introduced in Congress, and three passed the House. Seven presidents between 1890 and 1952 petitioned Congress to pass a federal law."[5] In 1920 the Republican Party promised at its national convention to support passage of such a law. In 1921 Leonidas C. Dyer from Saint Louis sponsored an anti-lynching bill; it was passed in January 1922 in the United States House of Representatives, but a Senate filibuster by the Southern white Democratic block defeated it in December 1922. With the NAACP, Representative Dyer spoke across the country in support of his bill in 1923 and tried to gain passage that year and the next, but was defeated by the Southern Democratic block.[5]
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


UN committee urges
US government to pay reparations for slavery


"Contemporary police killings and the trauma it creates are reminiscent of the racial terror lynchings in the past," Mendes-France told reporters. "Impunity for state violence has resulted in the current human rights crisis and must be addressed as a matter of urgency."
.
Mr. Perfect
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Zack Morris wrote:Is the Mongolian khanate still in existence and is there an aggrieved population living under its control? If so, reparations are certainly warranted.

A nation's liabilities do not expire with its victims. America's past (and ongoing, in the case of the criminal justice system) actions have put one group of people on less equal footing than others. Can you argue why this injustice should not be addresses? Note that reparations need not be in the form of direct payments. More comprehensive solutions are possible.
Err, you had a 60% supermajority just a few years ago, and you did nothing about reparations. DO you know why.

Also why don't blue states take the initiative and start paying reparation on their own. There is literally nothing stopping you.
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Alexis
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I am wondering...

Post by Alexis »

So RT, which is Russia's answer to CNN & BBC, dwelves on proposals for the US government to pay reparations to American descendants of slaves.

I am wondering. How come RT is not dwelving on the issue of reparations to descendants of Gulag deportees and Kulak slaughters? After all, these human rights abuses were more grievous even than past enslavement of Black Americans - look up number of victims - in addition to being far more recent. I mean, some of the victims have survived to this day. Plus it's closer to home.

How come?
noddy
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by noddy »

i also wonder why the african and arab tribes responsible for the provisioning side of the slave business escape this historical eyeball.

many questions indeed.
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Im open to reparations, I think it is the least that Democrats can do for visiting horrors upon the black people, both in the past and the present.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... egory.html
PBS host Tavis Smiley acknowledges that he, and others, got "so caught up in the symbolism of the Obama presidency," that they didn't press as hard as they should have on issues that are important to the black community.

"Sadly, and it pains me to say this, over the last decade black folk, in the era of Obama have lost ground in every major economic category," Smiley said Friday in an interview with Huffington Post. "Not one, two or three [categories], but every major economic category, black americans have lost ground"
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Re: I am wondering...

Post by Typhoon »

Alexis wrote:
So RT, which is Russia's answer to CNN & BBC, dwelves on proposals for the US government to pay reparations to American descendants of slaves.

I am wondering. How come RT is not dwelving on the issue of reparations to descendants of Gulag deportees and Kulak slaughters? After all, these human rights abuses were more grievous even than past enslavement of Black Americans - look up number of victims - in addition to being far more recent. I mean, some of the victims have survived to this day. Plus it's closer to home.

How come?
Indeed.

An old joke:
To learn about all that is wrong in America, read Pravda.

To learn about all that is wrong in Russia-SU, read the New York Times.
More than a bit ironic that the Cold War era was the Golden Age for the American blue-collar worker.

As for the UN, it has become an abject joke:

The UN Human Rights Council is currently headed by Saudi Arabia, the global leader in beheading.
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Simple Minded »

I want to see the day when parents are held responsible for the actions of their children. And if the chirrun don't turn out to be productive, responsible, caring, compassionate citizens, the parents have to pay reparations to society..... :P

The will fix AGW and overpopulation in one generation. :D
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Typhoon »

Simple Minded wrote:I want to see the day when parents are held responsible for the actions of their children. And if the chirrun don't turn out to be productive, responsible, caring, compassionate citizens, the parents have to pay reparations to society..... :P

The will fix AGW and overpopulation in one generation. :D
Indeed. ;)
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Mr. Perfect »

obama was President for 8 years and the Atlantic didn't breath a word about reparations, neither did any Democrat including obama.

Do you know why.
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Censorship isn't necessary
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: The Case for Reparations

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.
Mr. Perfect wrote:.

obama was President for 8 years and the Atlantic didn't breath a word about reparations, neither did any Democrat including obama.

Do you know why.

.

NO, why ?


Mr. Perfect wrote:.

All of this was shepherded by Democrats. All of it. They can pay.


.

:lol: :lol: .. True


.
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