U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

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YMix
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by YMix »

Doc wrote:Money is the reason. [...] f*ckerberg nor Tim Cook nor thier ILK give a damn about privacy as long as they get rich from holding all that personal data for profit.
Doc wrote:He and Suckerberg are the kind of folks that need to be taxed @ 110% of gross income.
Is it me or is Doc going full socialist on us?
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Zack Morris
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Zack Morris »

YMix wrote:
Doc wrote:Money is the reason. [...] f*ckerberg nor Tim Cook nor thier ILK give a damn about privacy as long as they get rich from holding all that personal data for profit.
Doc wrote:He and Suckerberg are the kind of folks that need to be taxed @ 110% of gross income.
Is it me or is Doc going full socialist on us?
It's not just you :)

Now, switching back to serious mode: this comports with what I said a couple weeks back about America turning European. The views of conservative intellectual elites are simply not shared by the vast majority of self-identifying conservative Americans, who only pay lip service to open markets and small government for as long as they believe they are personally benefiting. It's easy to exhort others to contribute their fair share, to suck it up, to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, when one feels society is working for them. But when the shoe is suddenly on the other foot, it's time for the government to do something to help ;)

The corollary to Thatcher's famous one-liner is that the problem with small government conservatism is that eventually, people run out of patience waiting for the market to spontaneously solve their problems.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

YMix wrote:
Doc wrote:Money is the reason. [...] f*ckerberg nor Tim Cook nor thier ILK give a damn about privacy as long as they get rich from holding all that personal data for profit.
Doc wrote:He and Suckerberg are the kind of folks that need to be taxed @ 110% of gross income.
Is it me or is Doc going full socialist on us?
It's not socialist to want to take back what someone swindled from you.
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YMix
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by YMix »

<insert "conservative" line describing taxation as theft>
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Doc
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Doc »

YMix wrote:
Doc wrote:Money is the reason. [...] f*ckerberg nor Tim Cook nor thier ILK give a damn about privacy as long as they get rich from holding all that personal data for profit.
Doc wrote:He and Suckerberg are the kind of folks that need to be taxed @ 110% of gross income.
Is it me or is Doc going full socialist on us?
I am proposing sticking it to the socialists. After all Hitler and his cronies were socialists. Anyone have a problem taxing Hitler and his cronies at 110%?

Look at the solar industry for example.

http://environmentblog.ncpa.org/which-e ... t-subsidy/

They get 96.8 cents per kilowatt hour in subsidies Cook and Suckerberg love solar energy. Why shouldn't they "give back" 110 cents per kilowatt hour since they love solar so much? It only seem right given the high cost them being general a-holes costs society in general .
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Doc »

Zack Morris wrote:
YMix wrote:
Doc wrote:Money is the reason. [...] f*ckerberg nor Tim Cook nor thier ILK give a damn about privacy as long as they get rich from holding all that personal data for profit.
Doc wrote:He and Suckerberg are the kind of folks that need to be taxed @ 110% of gross income.
Is it me or is Doc going full socialist on us?
It's not just you :)

Now, switching back to serious mode: this comports with what I said a couple weeks back about America turning European. The views of conservative intellectual elites are simply not shared by the vast majority of self-identifying conservative Americans, who only pay lip service to open markets and small government for as long as they believe they are personally benefiting. It's easy to exhort others to contribute their fair share, to suck it up, to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, when one feels society is working for them. But when the shoe is suddenly on the other foot, it's time for the government to do something to help ;)

The corollary to Thatcher's famous one-liner is that the problem with small government conservatism is that eventually, people run out of patience waiting for the market to spontaneously solve their problems.
So we can sign you up for a 110% tax on your gross income? ;)
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Simple Minded

Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Simple Minded »

Doc wrote:
So we can sign you up for a 110% tax on your gross income? ;)
c'mon Doc, you are just being silly.

In Merika, the popularity of the idea that "The rich should pay their fair share!" no matter how great, will always be superseded by the popularity of "Yeah, but I'm not one of the rich!" Even if the speaker is worth tens of millions! Think Ted Kennedy or Warren Buffet.

In mathematical terms, all N%ers think rich starts at N-1%. "They" also think that the N+1%ers who want to tax the N%ers at high rates are all freeloading scumbags.

You can bad mouth it all day long, but hypocrisy, selfishness, and self-delusion create a well-balanced society. :P

:shock: Epiphany" get rid of "self" and hypocrisy, selfishness, and self-delusion all disappear. But "who" will voluntarily drink the hemlock first?
No one I know.
Last edited by Simple Minded on Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Simple Minded

Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Simple Minded »

Zack Morris wrote:
Now, switching back to serious mode: this comports with what I said a couple weeks back about America turning European. The views of conservative intellectual elites are simply not shared by the vast majority of self-identifying conservative Americans, who only pay lip service to open markets and small government for as long as they believe they are personally benefiting. It's easy to exhort others to contribute their fair share, to suck it up, to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, when one feels society is working for them. But when the shoe is suddenly on the other foot, it's time for the government to do something to help ;)
true nuff. Substitute, lefty, or human for the right wing terminology in red text above and it is equally true.

"Me" always outweighs one's ideological group identity in personal and political calculation. Personal cost always determines the perspective of whether something is "worth it" or not.

Like it or not, everyone is selfish. :P Isn't that the whole point of one man, one vote? Everyone is expected to vote in their own self-interest. :D

Now, please move "your teets" a little closer to "my lips"..... they look so full & juicy.... that must be painful... let me ease your pain... HEY! Are you wearing a bra made in a foreign country by non-union labor? ahhh... forget it...

sucklesuckleslurpsucklesuckleslurpsucklesuckleslurp.... BURP!
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

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Simple Minded wrote:
Doc wrote:
So we can sign you up for a 110% tax on your gross income? ;)
c'mon Doc, you are just being silly.

In Merika, the popularity of the idea that "The rich should pay their fair share!" no matter how great, will always be superseded by the popularity of "Yeah, but I'm not one of the rich!" Even if the speaker is worth tens of millions! Think Ted Kennedy or Warren Buffet.

In mathematical terms, all N%ers think rich starts at N-1%. "They" also think that the N+1%ers who want to tax the N%ers at high rates are all freeloading scumbags.

You can bad mouth it all day long, but hypocrisy, selfishness, and self-delusion create a well-balanced society. :P

:shock: Epiphany" get rid of "self" and hypocrisy, selfishness, and self-delusion all disappear. But "who" will voluntarily drink the hemlock first?
No one I know.
Jim Jones didn't seem to have any problem getting people to drink the Kool Aid. Why not elect him president? Even though dead, he would seem to be the people's choice. At least on the left. :D
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Simple Minded

Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Simple Minded »

Doc wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
Doc wrote:
So we can sign you up for a 110% tax on your gross income? ;)
c'mon Doc, you are just being silly.

In Merika, the popularity of the idea that "The rich should pay their fair share!" no matter how great, will always be superseded by the popularity of "Yeah, but I'm not one of the rich!" Even if the speaker is worth tens of millions! Think Ted Kennedy or Warren Buffet.

In mathematical terms, all N%ers think rich starts at N-1%. "They" also think that the N+1%ers who want to tax the N%ers at high rates are all freeloading scumbags.

You can bad mouth it all day long, but hypocrisy, selfishness, and self-delusion create a well-balanced society. :P

:shock: Epiphany" get rid of "self" and hypocrisy, selfishness, and self-delusion all disappear. But "who" will voluntarily drink the hemlock first?
No one I know.
Jim Jones didn't seem to have any problem getting people to drink the Kool Aid. Why not elect him president? Even though dead, he would seem to be the people's choice. At least on the left. :D
Jim Jones? Hmmmm.... A Green Candidate who knows that, "In the long run, we're all Solutions!"

In this field he coulda been a contenda! Zero Hedge could sponsor him!
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Doc »

Anyone stil want to defend Tim Cook VS the FBI?

http://www.latimes.com/business/technol ... k=lat-pick
While it defies U.S. government, Apple abides by China's orders — and reaps big rewards
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/02 ... ivacy.html
Apple's Tech Allies Oppose the FBI, but Still Want Your Data
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by noddy »

the powers the chinese government have are the same as the powers the american government have - they can both look at all the data on cloud servers and they can both look at all the data harvested by the telcos.

the specific thing the FBI doesnt have is the custom os that lets them break the local phone security easily, which is also the power the chinese government doesnt have.

this is not news its clickbait for people who dont pay attention to the details.
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:
....this is not news its clickbait for people who dont pay attention to the details.
the exact same thing a buddy of mine said the other day who has some interesting connections in the Defense Department.
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

noddy wrote:.

the powers the chinese government have are the same as the powers the american government have - they can both look at all the data on cloud servers and they can both look at all the data harvested by the telcos.

the specific thing the FBI doesnt have is the custom os that lets them break the local phone security easily, which is also the power the chinese government doesnt have.

.


Exactly

That's what I'm saying since long long time

All "authorities", governments, military, intelligence services, pretty much everybody of wested interest, knew this since long long time .. Once I posted a uTube clip of "Iranian Revolutionary Guard" explaining all this on TV (clip was dated more than 10 yrs ago).

Only guy who did not know this, was American Joe .. believing "American constitution" forbids this :lol: :lol:

Well, Joe, American constitution was pored into toilet by American Presidents long long ago, and, any new president elected, flushed the toilet one more time making sure it flushed properly. American Constitution pretty much now on "pick & chose" mode, used as needed, ignored when not.


Michael Hayden, the former head of the NSA and CIA :
"If he were to order that once in government, the American armed forces would refuse to act."



pC7-RMhfSos


:lol: :lol: .. come on

.
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

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noddy wrote:the powers the chinese government have are the same as the powers the american government have - they can both look at all the data on cloud servers and they can both look at all the data harvested by the telcos.

the specific thing the FBI doesnt have is the custom os that lets them break the local phone security easily, which is also the power the chinese government doesnt have.

this is not news its clickbait for people who dont pay attention to the details.
Hmm LA times and NY times producing click bait That sure is an interesting spin Noddy.

Apple didn't sell anything in China without the Chinese government getting their way. I don't seeing anyone in China complaining about it either. Gee I wonder why?
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by noddy »

Doc wrote:
noddy wrote:the powers the chinese government have are the same as the powers the american government have - they can both look at all the data on cloud servers and they can both look at all the data harvested by the telcos.

the specific thing the FBI doesnt have is the custom os that lets them break the local phone security easily, which is also the power the chinese government doesnt have.

this is not news its clickbait for people who dont pay attention to the details.
Hmm LA times and NY times producing click bait That sure is an interesting spin Noddy.
the chinese monitoring is the same as the american monitoring - anything on the cloud or in the telco system is available to the authorities - which is the vast magority of activity on most phones .
Doc wrote: Apple didn't sell anything in China without the Chinese government getting their way. I don't seeing anyone in China complaining about it either. Gee I wonder why?
same as america.

your FBI wants more than that , it wants easy access to the encrypted private data thats not on the network, you are officially more totalitarian than china.

spin that.
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by noddy »

more details on the apple os storm in a teacup.

http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/02 ... to-update/

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016 ... -root-for/



of course the way around manufacturers not giving you features you want on these general purpose computing platforms is installing the features you want yourself.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016 ... -suspects/

German police are now permitted to infect a suspect's computers, and mobile devices with special trojan software to monitor communications made with the systems, the country's interior ministry has confirmed.

The malware can only be deployed when lives are at risk, or the state is threatened, and will require a court order to allow police officers to infect the machines of alleged criminals.

However, the government-developed malware must not be used to monitor other activities on the system, or to change data or programs. It follows a decision by Germany's Constitutional Court in 2008, which ruled that the an individual's private life should have absolute protection, and that eavesdropping must be limited to a person's communications with the outside world.

But Frank Rieger, a spokesperson from the famous Chaos Computer Club (CCC), has cast doubt on the German government's pledge to adhere to those standards with its trojan software. In an an article on the Deutschlandfunk website (in German), Rieger noted that it was very hard to create malware that can be used to monitor communications in a way that does not infringe on the protected private sphere.

The CCC has been tracking Germany's authorised malware for some years now.
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

JOHN MCAFEE: The NSA's back door has given every US secret to our enemies
http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... 016-2?IR=T
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Doc »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
JOHN MCAFEE: The NSA's back door has given every US secret to our enemies
http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... 016-2?IR=T
The guy who neighbor in Belize was found dead from a blast from a shotgun after he had an argument with him? That MCAfee?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee#Legal_issues
Legal issues

On April 30, 2012, McAfee's property in Orange Walk Town, Belize, was raided by the Gang Suppression Unit of the Belizean Police Department. McAfee was in bed with his girlfriend at that time, who McAfee said was scarred by the incident. A GSU press release stated that McAfee was arrested for unlicensed drug manufacturing and possession of an unlicensed weapon.[15][31][32][33] He was released without charge.[34] In 2012, Belize police spokesman Raphael Martinez confirmed that McAfee was neither convicted nor charged, but only suspected.[35]

On November 12, 2012, Belize police started a search for McAfee as a "person of interest" in connection to the murder of American expatriate Gregory Viant Faull. Faull was found dead of a gunshot wound on November 11, 2012, at his home on the island of Ambergris Caye, the largest island in Belize.[36][37] Faull was a neighbor of McAfee.[38] In a November 2012 interview with Wired,[39] McAfee said that he has always been afraid police would kill him and thus refused their routine questions; he has since been evading the Belizean authorities.[38] Belize's prime minister Dean Barrow called McAfee "extremely paranoid, even bonkers".[40] McAfee fled Belize when he was sought for questioning concerning the murder.[41][42][43]

Vice accidentally gave away McAfee's location at a Guatemalan resort in early December 2012, when a photo taken by one of its journalists accompanying McAfee was posted with the Exif geolocation metadata still attached.[44] While in Guatemala, McAfee asked Chad Essley, an American cartoonist and animator, to set up a blog so that he could write about his experience while on the run.[45] McAfee then appeared publicly in Guatemala City, where he attempted to seek political asylum. On December 5, 2012, McAfee was arrested for illegally entering Guatemala. Shortly after being placed under arrest, a board to review McAfee's plea for asylum was formed. The committee denied his asylum, so he was taken from his holding facility to a detention center in order to await deportation to Belize.[46]

On December 6, 2012, Reuters and ABC News reported that McAfee had two minor heart attacks in a Guatemalan detention center and was hospitalized.[47][48] McAfee's lawyer stated that his client had not suffered heart attacks, but had instead suffered from high blood pressure and anxiety attacks.[49][50][51] McAfee later stated that he faked the heart attack while being held in Guatemala to buy time for his attorney to file a series of appeals that ultimately prevented his deportation to Belize, hastening the government's decision to send him back to the United States.[52] On December 12, 2012, McAfee was released from detention in Guatemala and deported to the United States.[53]

As of January 8, 2014, Belizean police have presented no new accusations, and they have not persisted in seeking McAfee's imprisonment for any of the crimes they accused him of. However, they have auctioned off McAfee's seized assets, and his home was burned down under suspicious circumstances.[54]

On August 2, 2015, he was arrested in Henderson County, Tennessee, on charges of one count of driving under the influence and one count of possession of a firearm while intoxicated.[55]
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by noddy »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
JOHN MCAFEE: The NSA's back door has given every US secret to our enemies
http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... 016-2?IR=T
a perfectly valid point - some folks are quite desperate to put private conversations into the hands of authoritarian governments out of misguided spiteful schaudenfraude politics.

if anyone is actually interested in the attack vectors on modern computers and just how hard it is to lock them down against skilled electronics hackers.

http://blog.invisiblethings.org/papers/ ... armful.pdf

TLDR; your computer has many microcontrollers with no protection on it, it is technically impossible to stop government hacking it, provided the skill levels are there.
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Doc wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
JOHN MCAFEE: The NSA's back door has given every US secret to our enemies
http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... 016-2?IR=T
The guy who neighbor in Belize was found dead from a blast from a shotgun after he had an argument with him? That MCAfee?
Ad hominem fallacy.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Doc »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Doc wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
JOHN MCAFEE: The NSA's back door has given every US secret to our enemies
http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... 016-2?IR=T
The guy who neighbor in Belize was found dead from a blast from a shotgun after he had an argument with him? That MCAfee?
Ad hominem fallacy.
OH That McAFEE is clinically nuts is ad hominem?

http://blogs.voanews.com/digital-fronti ... -meltdown/
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by noddy »

Doc wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Doc wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
JOHN MCAFEE: The NSA's back door has given every US secret to our enemies
http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... 016-2?IR=T
The guy who neighbor in Belize was found dead from a blast from a shotgun after he had an argument with him? That MCAfee?
Ad hominem fallacy.
OH That McAFEE is clinically nuts is ad hominem?

http://blogs.voanews.com/digital-fronti ... -meltdown/
who gives a flying flick ? are you as mad as mc'afee ?

what is your opinion on the fact that government mandated backdoors into our electronic communications means that dodgy democrats and communist chinese can read your private business dealings and personal conversations.

do you agree with this or do you think its a worthy loss of privacy against the threat of terrorism.
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

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http://www.theguardian.com/money/commen ... ontactless
The health food chain Tossed has just opened the UK’s first cashless cafe. It’s another step towards the death of cash.

This is nothing new. Money is tech. The casting of coins made shells, whales’ teeth and other such primitive forms of money redundant. The printing press did the same for precious metals: we started using paper notes instead. Electronic banking put paid to the cheque. Contactless payment is now doing the same to cash, which is becoming less and less convenient. In the marketplace convenience usually wins.

That’s fine as long as people are making this choice freely. What concerns me is the unofficial war on cash that is going on, from the suspicion with which you are treated if you ever use large sums of cash to the campaign in Europe to decommission the €500 note. I’m not sure the consequences have been properly considered.
one of the comments pointed out that mastercard has already played its hand and blocked wikilinks donations.
paypal is also known for holding back transactions it decides are dodgy.


im so glad im alive now and not in 50 years time.
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Re: U.S. Internal Policy + Surveillance Society

Post by Doc »

noddy wrote:
Doc wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Doc wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
JOHN MCAFEE: The NSA's back door has given every US secret to our enemies
http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mca ... 016-2?IR=T
The guy who neighbor in Belize was found dead from a blast from a shotgun after he had an argument with him? That MCAfee?
Ad hominem fallacy.
OH That McAFEE is clinically nuts is ad hominem?

http://blogs.voanews.com/digital-fronti ... -meltdown/
who gives a flying flick ? are you as mad as mc'afee ?

what is your opinion on the fact that government mandated backdoors into our electronic communications means that dodgy democrats and communist chinese can read your private business dealings and personal conversations.

do you agree with this or do you think its a worthy loss of privacy against the threat of terrorism.
I know that what Apple is dodging vs the FBI is not a back door as Apple claims it it. I also know that Apple Facebook Yahoo and probably Google have given the Chinese government all the activity of Chinese users on their services. IE THEY ARE HYPOCRITE Try flynig that flick and see how it goes for you.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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