Bernie Sanders

Bernie Sanders

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sat May 02, 2015 5:43 pm

Certainly the most interesting development in the Presidential race so far. Can a bona fide populist independent make an impact?
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Doc » Sat May 02, 2015 6:29 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby YMix » Sat May 02, 2015 7:14 pm

100,000 people signed up on Sanders’ website, the campaign added, and 35,000 made contributions. “This is a remarkable start for Bernie’s campaign,” Sanders top strategist Tad Devine said in a statement.


It remains to be seen whether there's anything to this remarkable start.

“People across America are yearning for authentic leadership that tells them the truth about what is holding back our nation.


People across the USA cannot even agree on what's holding back their nation.
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sat May 02, 2015 8:55 pm

Doc wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

They laughed at Ron Paul too, but it took a bagful of dirty tricks to keep him off the floor at the Republican convention. Hillary is worse candidate now than she was eight years ago when the kingmakers summarily dumped her for a laughably unknown and inexperienced senator from Illinois.

As the economy goes down the prospects for a populist candidate go up. I think Saunders is going to become more interesting than you think.
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Doc » Sat May 02, 2015 9:43 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Doc wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

They laughed at Ron Paul too, but it took a bagful of dirty tricks to keep him off the floor at the Republican convention. Hillary is worse candidate now than she was eight years ago when the kingmakers summarily dumped her for a laughably unknown and inexperienced senator from Illinois.

As the economy goes down the prospects for a populist candidate go up. I think Saunders is going to become more interesting than you think.


Ron Paul had pretty much Zero chance of winning the Republican nomination. Bernie Saunders is only notable because he is the one Dem currently running against the inevitable Hillary. He is an extreme socialist and the socialist tide is definitely going out after 8 years of progressive(Socialist by another name) failure after failure.
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby YMix » Sat May 02, 2015 10:20 pm

Doc wrote:He is an extreme socialist and the socialist tide is definitely going out after 8 years of progressive(Socialist by another name) failure after failure.


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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Doc » Sat May 02, 2015 10:22 pm

YMix wrote:
Doc wrote:He is an extreme socialist and the socialist tide is definitely going out after 8 years of progressive(Socialist by another name) failure after failure.


Image



Sure I know what it means. I think it is you who doesn't know
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby YMix » Sat May 02, 2015 10:47 pm

Doc wrote:Sure I know what it means. I think it is you who doesn't know.


https://berniesanders.com/issues/

Infrastructure: "That’s why we need to invest at least $1 trillion over five years to rebuild America. This will not only make us safer, more productive and more efficient, but it will generate income and create jobs — lots of jobs." - Socialism footprint: Neutral. It can go both ways.

Climate change: "The United States must lead the world in tackling climate change and make certain that this planet is habitable for our children and grandchildren." - Socialism footprint: Negative. The only environment protection plan that socialist countries ever had was underdevelopment.

Tax reform: "At a time of massive wealth and income inequality, we need a progressive tax system in this country which is based on ability to pay." - Socialism footprint: Mildly positive.

Social security: "Millions of seniors live in poverty and we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of any major country. We must strengthen the social safety net, not weaken it." - Socialism footprint: Mildly positive. Doesn't go nearly far enough.

Health care: "Americans spend about twice as much per capita on health care as almost any other developed nation, but our outcomes are not as good as others that spend much less." - Socialism footprint: Mildly positive.

Wall Street: "The greed, recklessness and illegal behavior of major Wall Street firms plunged this country into the worst financial crisis since the 1930s. They are too powerful to be reformed. They must be broken up." - Socialism footprint: Strongly Negative. Any self-respecting socialist would confiscate everything on Wall Street and shut down every single bank and broker... before rounding up the bankers and brokers and having them shot.

Education: "Quality education in America, from child care to higher education, must be affordable for all. Without a high-quality and affordable educational system, we will be unable to compete globally and our standard of living will continue to decline." - Socialism footprint: Mildly positive.

Trade: "We need to end the race to the bottom and develop trade policies which demand that American corporations create jobs here, and not abroad." - Socialism footprint: Neutral at first glance. Need more information on said policies.

Pay equity: "We need pay equity in our country — equal pay for equal work." - Socialism footprint: Positive.

Minimum wage: "The current federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour is a starvation wage. We need to raise the minimum wage to a living wage — $15 an hour over the next few years." - Socialism footprint: Mildly positive. Doesn't go nearly far enough.

Unions: "We need legislation which makes it clear that when a majority of workers sign cards in support of a union, they can form a union." - Socialism footprint: Positive.

Workers' Co-Ops: "Instead of giving huge tax breaks to corporations which ship our jobs to China and other low-wage countries, we need to provide assistance to workers who want to purchase their own businesses by establishing worker-owned cooperatives." - Socialism footprint: Negative. Private property must be abolished.

Overall Socialism footprint: Neutral. I fail to see any extreme socialism here. In fact, I suspect Sanders of right-wing deviation and cooperation with counterrevolutionary forces, reactionaries and whiteguardists.
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sat May 02, 2015 11:01 pm

Doc wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Doc wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

They laughed at Ron Paul too, but it took a bagful of dirty tricks to keep him off the floor at the Republican convention. Hillary is worse candidate now than she was eight years ago when the kingmakers summarily dumped her for a laughably unknown and inexperienced senator from Illinois.

As the economy goes down the prospects for a populist candidate go up. I think Saunders is going to become more interesting than you think.


Ron Paul had pretty much Zero chance of winning the Republican nomination. Bernie Saunders is only notable because he is the one Dem currently running against the inevitable Hillary. He is an extreme socialist and the socialist tide is definitely going out after 8 years of progressive(Socialist by another name) failure after failure.
.
The primary isn't just about winning. Sanders changes the entire playfield. All the Candidates need to recalibrate now that Hillary is no longer the progressive candidate, especially re: healthcare. American jobs will be a larger issue. if Warren enters, she will be in a comfortable cradle between Clinton and Sanders.
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Nonc Hilaire » Sat May 02, 2015 11:11 pm

YMix wrote:
Doc wrote:He is an extreme socialist and the socialist tide is definitely going out after 8 years of progressive(Socialist by another name) failure after failure.


Image

Sanders is a merchantilist and protectionist, not a socialist. People in a poor economy find that attractive.

"Make American jobs! Buy American!"
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby kmich » Sat May 02, 2015 11:46 pm

Bernie Sanders, like Ron Paul, will hopefully ask serious questions rather than going on and on with the customary pablum that our conventional politicians mindlessly reiterate and support to protect their precious status quo.

Of course, most people don’t like to be questioned, sort of shakes the soap box and rocks the favored hobby horse in unpleasant ways. So Sanders is likely to be marginalized by assorted right wing reactionaries and windbags, Democrat apologists and whiners about "bipartisanship," and the usual media whores who seek continued favors from our Versailles on the Potomac.

Yea, Sanders is a “socialist.” So what? Hillary is a warmongering, ambitious, incompetent harridan and denizen of Wall Street. The GOP leadership has degenerated from my college Young Republican days into a mean spirited, sanctimonious, grievance filled quasi-fascist monstrosity; a beast of boring, insipid crybabies and blowhards that no one has the stomach to challenge.

Hillary Clinton vs Jeb Bush? Oh joy! :roll:
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Doc » Sun May 03, 2015 12:04 am

kmich wrote:Bernie Sanders, like Ron Paul, will hopefully ask serious questions rather than going on and on with the customary pablum that our conventional politicians mindlessly reiterate and support to protect their precious status quo.

Of course, most people don’t like to be questioned, sort of shakes the soap box and rocks the favored hobby horse in unpleasant ways. So Sanders is likely to be marginalized by assorted right wing reactionaries and windbags, Democrat apologists and whiners about "bipartisanship," and the usual media whores who seek continued favors from our Versailles on the Potomac.

Yea, Sanders is a “socialist.” So what? Hillary is a warmongering, ambitious, incompetent harridan and denizen of Wall Street. The GOP leadership has degenerated from my college Young Republican days into a mean spirited, sanctimonious, grievance filled quasi-fascist monstrosity; a beast of boring, insipid crybabies and blowhards that no one has the stomach to challenge.

Hillary Clinton vs Jeb Bush? Oh joy! :roll:


I don't think either are going to make it to the nomination. Which leaves a real problem for the Democrats.
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Simple Minded » Sun May 03, 2015 1:03 am

YMix wrote:
100,000 people signed up on Sanders’ website, the campaign added, and 35,000 made contributions. “This is a remarkable start for Bernie’s campaign,” Sanders top strategist Tad Devine said in a statement.


It remains to be seen whether there's anything to this remarkable start.

“People across America are yearning for authentic leadership that tells them the truth about what is holding back our nation.


People across the USA cannot even agree on what's holding back their nation.


True. Someone oughta do something bout dat!

Difference of opinion, nothing good ever come out of that......... hey wait a minute..... perhaps we are all not Baltimorians after all..... :lol:
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Simple Minded » Sun May 03, 2015 1:05 am

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Doc wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

They laughed at Ron Paul too, but it took a bagful of dirty tricks to keep him off the floor at the Republican convention. Hillary is worse candidate now than she was eight years ago when the kingmakers summarily dumped her for a laughably unknown and inexperienced senator from Illinois.

As the economy goes down the prospects for a populist candidate go up. I think Saunders is going to become more interesting than you think.


He strikes me as a bit of a totalitarian loon, but I would not be surprised if he is not the most honest guy to enter the race to date.

I think that at least the people who will vote for him, will know what they are voting for.
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Simple Minded » Sun May 03, 2015 1:09 am

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Sanders is a merchantilist and protectionist, not a socialist. People in a poor economy find that attractive.

"Make American jobs! Buy American!"


IIRC, even the UAW boys who were chanting that back in the hay day of "Japan Inc. is going to conquer the world!!!" didn't subscribe to their own propaganda enough to follow their own advice.

Perhaps there was not enough fear then but is now.
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Typhoon » Sun May 03, 2015 12:52 pm

Simple Minded wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:Sanders is a merchantilist and protectionist, not a socialist. People in a poor economy find that attractive.

"Make American jobs! Buy American!"


IIRC, even the UAW boys who were chanting that back in the hay day of "Japan Inc. is going to conquer the world!!!" didn't subscribe to their own propaganda enough to follow their own advice.

. . .


Ah, the good old days . . . :wink:
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Typhoon » Sun May 03, 2015 12:56 pm

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
YMix wrote:
Doc wrote:He is an extreme socialist and the socialist tide is definitely going out after 8 years of progressive(Socialist by another name) failure after failure.


Image

Sanders is a merchantilist and protectionist, not a socialist. People in a poor economy find that attractive.

"Make American jobs! Buy American!"


As I had not heard of Bernie Sanders before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Simple Minded » Sun May 03, 2015 1:07 pm

Typhoon wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:Sanders is a merchantilist and protectionist, not a socialist. People in a poor economy find that attractive.

"Make American jobs! Buy American!"


IIRC, even the UAW boys who were chanting that back in the hay day of "Japan Inc. is going to conquer the world!!!" didn't subscribe to their own propaganda enough to follow their own advice.

. . .


Ah, the good old days . . . :wink:


:) if it ain't the 1960's, its the 1980's....... same complaints, different labels, different generations, same human nature.

Still Asians are the threat?....... hmmmm... Viva la consistency! :)

I'm still disappointed in you guys for not fixing the world when you had your lavender together! You'd think I'd be over it by now...... :(
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Simple Minded » Sun May 03, 2015 2:20 pm

typhoon,

Speaking of nostalgia...... waaaaay back in the day, when I was in my late teens or early 20's and knew sooooooo much more than I do today, I remember having a conversation with a co-worker of similar age about then then contemporary "end of the world as we know it" problem du jour. A couple of older co-workers were listening to us and would look at each other and smile knowingly every few minutes.

At one point my young co-worker looked at the older workers and said "Either you guys just don't get it, or you just don't care!"

The response of the older co-worker was classic. "Listen kid, just because you became aware of a problem in the world on your way to work today, doesn't mean you are smarter, more aware, or more caring than anyone else. Get over yourself! Ignorance breeds arrogance!"

Either 35 is the new 18, or I'm getting old........ or both. Either way, I'm good! ;)
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Typhoon » Sun May 03, 2015 2:23 pm

Simple Minded wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote:Sanders is a merchantilist and protectionist, not a socialist. People in a poor economy find that attractive.

"Make American jobs! Buy American!"


IIRC, even the UAW boys who were chanting that back in the hay day of "Japan Inc. is going to conquer the world!!!" didn't subscribe to their own propaganda enough to follow their own advice.

. . .


Ah, the good old days . . . :wink:


:) if it ain't the 1960's, its the 1980's....... same complaints, different labels, different generations, same human nature.

Still Asians are the threat?....... hmmmm... Viva la consistency! :)


Image

[USA | 1899]

Indeed. :wink:

[Actually, that cartoon is so crude that I feel a bit bad about posting it. Times have changed. All least for the time being . . . ]

To be fair, while the UAW was sledgehammering Toyotas,
Japanese TV was showing rigged tests about the workmanship of American cars to discourage people from purchasing them.

Or as one bureaucrat stated when the issue of importing skis came up,

"Japanese snow is different."
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Typhoon » Sun May 03, 2015 2:33 pm

Simple Minded wrote:typhoon,

Speaking of nostalgia...... waaaaay back in the day, when I was in my late teens or early 20's and knew sooooooo much more than I do today, I remember having a conversation with a co-worker of similar age about then then contemporary "end of the world as we know it" problem du jour. A couple of older co-workers were listening to us and would look at each other and smile knowingly every few minutes.


Interesting how the end of the world is imminent . . . and always will be.

Simple Minded wrote:At one point my young co-worker looked at the older workers and said "Either you guys just don't get it, or you just don't care!"

The response of the older co-worker was classic. "Listen kid, just because you became aware of a problem in the world on your way to work today, doesn't mean you are smarter, more aware, or more caring than anyone else. Get over yourself! Ignorance breeds arrogance!"

. . .


Brilliant.

When I find myself in such a debate,
I'm fond of noting that I've lost count of how many imminent doomsdays that not only have I survived, but thrived.

All without any action on my part.
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby Simple Minded » Sun May 03, 2015 3:12 pm

Typhoon wrote:
Indeed. :wink:

[Actually, that cartoon is so crude that I feel a bit bad about posting it. Times have changed. All least for the time being . . . ]

To be fair, while the UAW was sledgehammering Toyotas,
Japanese TV was showing rigged tests about the workmanship of American cars to discourage people from purchasing them.

Or as one bureaucrat stated when the issue of importing skis came up,

"Japanese snow is different."


Big difference is that back then the Chinese were pretending to be Japanese.... or the Japanese are now pretending to be Chinese...... I think! ;)

And the American MSM was running campaigns about how Corvairs were "unsafe at any speed!" (Ralph Nader's rise to national fame as one of the nanny's of his generation!!!)
60 Minutes was strapping Estes rocket engines to Ford Pintos and igniting them in an effort to get the gas tanks to explode in a rear end collision!

sidenote: One of my cool friends in high school (late 1970's) drove a Ford Pinto.
On the trunk lid he stenciled "FLAMMABLE! STAY BACK 500 FEET!" in 4" high letters!

Japanese snow is different. Japanese advertising, businessmen, people, and politicians...... not so much! ;)

times have changed.... but not for long! Thankfully, other wise I could not adapt.... or maybe I would not need to..... :?
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Endovelico » Sun May 03, 2015 6:24 pm

Typhoon wrote:Ignorance breeds arrogance!"


無知は傲慢を生みます!


:D
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby noddy » Mon May 04, 2015 1:51 am

Simple Minded wrote:sidenote: One of my cool friends in high school (late 1970's) drove a Ford Pinto.
On the trunk lid he stenciled "FLAMMABLE! STAY BACK 500 FEET!" in 4" high letters!


id love one of those.
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Re: Bernie Saunders

Postby manolo » Mon May 04, 2015 8:16 am

Doc wrote: He is an extreme socialist and the socialist tide is definitely going out after 8 years of progressive(Socialist by another name) failure after failure.


Doc,

I respect your opinion but voting in the senate tells a different story.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politi ... republican

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