The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisiana

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Typhoon
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

Post by Typhoon »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Typhoon wrote:Aside from various ideological biases, the data for the GDP of each US state is readily available:

List of U.S. states by GDP

California ranks #1 with a GDP of more than twice the 2nd ranked state.
Right. California has been an economic powerhouse for a long time now. I'm not sure if it still applies, but at one point, as a separate country, it would've ranked 6th in GDP worldwide.
Comparable to Italy apparently.
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
All the more reason that California's economic problems any future uncertainties are more worrisome and concerning than a downturn in oil for North Dakota or why the tax scheme in Kansas didn't work quite as well as it did in North Carolina.
The future is a mystery. Most predictions are invariably wrong.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Typhoon wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Doc wrote:.

So how is it that San Francisco has more homeless than Mumbai ?

.


How ? ? ?


Poverty level begins with $ 100,000 income, you sleeping on the street below $ 80,000


$250K Per Year Salary Qualify For Subsidized Housing


.
Another reason why a comparison between San Fran and Mumbai is simply silly.

.

Why silly ?


All boils to "purchasing power" .. what is the difference between an Apple's bus driver in Palo Alto and a Mumbai bus driver ? ?

In Mumbai Bus drivers are probably "higher middle class" .. in Palo Alto, bus drivers are poor people

That means, the real-poverty "bar", how it feels, set much higher in Palo Alto than in Mumbai .. in Palo Alto Bus drivers are among poor (the article says among Homeless), in Mumbai they "higher middle class".


.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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Homelessness is exploding at epidemic rates all over the west coast, one of the many negative aspects of the obama economy the national media doesn't cover because of their bias. You travel in these liberal cities and it's almost always the topic on talk radio, liberal talk radio. It's hilarious, they go on and on and on about homelessness in their cities but never stop to connect the dots on where it came from and are never able to fix it.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

Post by noddy »

the western vs indian comparison is silly because slums and shanty towns are illegal in most of the west so the value judgement between allowing them vs allowing a small percentage of homeless are highly personal and non quantifiable.

their is no way an american city would have 50% homeless yet an indian city could have 50% in slums.. only individual preference can separate those situations.

i do think the west is harsh on the poor, i do think too many are homeless and our left wing systems are full of horseshit because the government workers would rather homeless than risking their own jobs.

i dont think being in an indian slum would be preferable, a poor westerner still stands a better chance at improving their lot than a poor indian.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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noddy wrote:the western vs indian comparison is silly because slums and shanty towns are illegal in most of the west so the value judgement between allowing them vs allowing a small percentage of homeless are highly personal and non quantifiable.

their is no way an american city would have 50% homeless yet an indian city could have 50% in slums.. only individual preference can separate those situations.

i do think the west is harsh on the poor, i do think too many are homeless and our left wing systems are full of horseshit because the government workers would rather homeless than risking their own jobs.

i dont think being in an indian slum would be preferable, a poor westerner still stands a better chance at improving their lot than a poor indian.
Exactly.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

Post by Simple Minded »

Typhoon wrote:
noddy wrote:the western vs indian comparison is silly because slums and shanty towns are illegal in most of the west so the value judgement between allowing them vs allowing a small percentage of homeless are highly personal and non quantifiable.

their is no way an american city would have 50% homeless yet an indian city could have 50% in slums.. only individual preference can separate those situations.

i do think the west is harsh on the poor, i do think too many are homeless and our left wing systems are full of horseshit because the government workers would rather homeless than risking their own jobs.

i dont think being in an indian slum would be preferable, a poor westerner still stands a better chance at improving their lot than a poor indian.
Exactly.
In Merika, this is often handled by the free market thru housing associations. Though sometimes thru municipal regulation.

Developers or municipalities create restrictions on the sub-divisions they create.

Some land I own allows double-wides but not single wides. You can have horses (status animals), but not cows, pigs, or chickens (redneck animals) or sheep, goats (sex trade animals).

One friend lives in a sub-division that does not allow fences. A co-worker lives in a sub-division that forbids pickup truck owners from parking their trucks outside.

"We" call it status.

Hard to tell neo-con, neo-lib, or neo-Nazi sub-divisions apart....
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Typhoon wrote:
noddy wrote:the western vs indian comparison is silly because slums and shanty towns are illegal in most of the west so the value judgement between allowing them vs allowing a small percentage of homeless are highly personal and non quantifiable.

their is no way an american city would have 50% homeless yet an indian city could have 50% in slums.. only individual preference can separate those situations.

i do think the west is harsh on the poor, i do think too many are homeless and our left wing systems are full of horseshit because the government workers would rather homeless than risking their own jobs.

i dont think being in an indian slum would be preferable, a poor westerner still stands a better chance at improving their lot than a poor indian.
Exactly.
So why is record homelessness being experienced under obama in America.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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Aaaaand... it's gone.
The nation’s most aggressive experiment in conservative economic policy is dead.

Republican majorities in the Kansas legislature on Tuesday night voted to reverse the deep tax cuts engineered by Governor Sam Brownback five years ago, blaming them for blowing a hole in the state’s budget that threatened the viability of its schools and infrastructure. Brownback, a conservative first elected in 2010 on a platform of phasing out Kansas’s income tax entirely, stood by his vision even in spite of an electoral backlash last year. But a coalition of Democrats and newly-elected Republicans overrode his veto of legislation to raise $1.2 billion in revenue by hiking personal income taxes and repealing a widely-criticized exemption for small-business owners. Tax rates will now go up to levels near where they were before Brownback took office.

The stark shift in policy was months, if not years, in the making. Lawmakers in the GOP-controlled House and Senate came within a few votes of undoing the tax cuts in February as lawmakers searched for revenue to plug a nearly $900 million two-year budget gap and meet a court order demanding more funding for education.

For Brownback, a former senator and one-time presidential hopeful, the vote was nothing less than a humiliation. He had hailed his tax cuts as “a real live experiment” in conservative governance and offered them up as a model for other states and the Trump administration. Instead, they left him as the most unpopular governor in the country, who was reportedly casting about for a federal posting that would allow him to escape Topeka before the legislature could eviscerate his legacy.

[...]
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ad/529551/
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

Post by Zack Morris »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
noddy wrote:the western vs indian comparison is silly because slums and shanty towns are illegal in most of the west so the value judgement between allowing them vs allowing a small percentage of homeless are highly personal and non quantifiable.

their is no way an american city would have 50% homeless yet an indian city could have 50% in slums.. only individual preference can separate those situations.

i do think the west is harsh on the poor, i do think too many are homeless and our left wing systems are full of horseshit because the government workers would rather homeless than risking their own jobs.

i dont think being in an indian slum would be preferable, a poor westerner still stands a better chance at improving their lot than a poor indian.
Exactly.
So why is record homelessness being experienced under obama in America.
Because Obama took office after the economy melted down in unprecedented fashion on the GOP's watch.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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YMix wrote:Aaaaand... it's gone.
The nation’s most aggressive experiment in conservative economic policy is dead.

Republican majorities in the Kansas legislature on Tuesday night voted to reverse the deep tax cuts engineered by Governor Sam Brownback five years ago, blaming them for blowing a hole in the state’s budget that threatened the viability of its schools and infrastructure. Brownback, a conservative first elected in 2010 on a platform of phasing out Kansas’s income tax entirely, stood by his vision even in spite of an electoral backlash last year. But a coalition of Democrats and newly-elected Republicans overrode his veto of legislation to raise $1.2 billion in revenue by hiking personal income taxes and repealing a widely-criticized exemption for small-business owners. Tax rates will now go up to levels near where they were before Brownback took office.

The stark shift in policy was months, if not years, in the making. Lawmakers in the GOP-controlled House and Senate came within a few votes of undoing the tax cuts in February as lawmakers searched for revenue to plug a nearly $900 million two-year budget gap and meet a court order demanding more funding for education.

For Brownback, a former senator and one-time presidential hopeful, the vote was nothing less than a humiliation. He had hailed his tax cuts as “a real live experiment” in conservative governance and offered them up as a model for other states and the Trump administration. Instead, they left him as the most unpopular governor in the country, who was reportedly casting about for a federal posting that would allow him to escape Topeka before the legislature could eviscerate his legacy.

[...]
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ad/529551/
Haha! It's not just Kansas. Louisiana and Texas have been circling the toilet thanks to their economic policies, whereas California, New York, Washington, etc. are going strong.

I'm not sure there is any success story conservatives can point to. It's telling, by the way, that some of the most vocal conservatives here, like Doc and Mr. P, live in fairly liberal areas.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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Zack Morris wrote: Because Obama took office after the economy melted down in unprecedented fashion on the GOP's watch.
Why did it get worse every year.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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Where I live everyone is a capitalist.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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Mr. Perfect wrote:
Zack Morris wrote: Because Obama took office after the economy melted down in unprecedented fashion on the GOP's watch.
Why did it get worse every year.
It didn't. It got better. Record job creation.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

Post by Zack Morris »

Mr. Perfect wrote:Where I live everyone is a capitalist.
Oh! How do you like China?
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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Zack Morris wrote:
It didn't. It got better. Record job creation.
Homelessness got worse year over year under obama. As for job creation what kind of records lead to record political collapse.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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Zack Morris wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:Where I live everyone is a capitalist.
Oh! How do you like China?
Mixed bag. Big beautiful country, some parts well developed, others never will be. But the government owns almost everything and the citizens are essentially slaves. Might be a good fit for you.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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Epilogue or should that be epitaph.

Reason | Kansas' Tax Cut Experiment Was A Predictable Failure
People like lower taxes, just not lower spending. Kansas is a lesson that you can’t have the former without the latter.
Still, Kansans can take comfort in knowing that their state is not the worst of the worst when it comes to tax policy (cue Illinois, center stage). Media coverage of the Kansas tax experiment has become part of of an ongoing game that attempts to blame the other side for every problem under the sun, while denying any criticism of your own camp. In doing so, the nuance and complexity of tax policy is lost. Many news outlets seem far more interested in pushing narratives of Republican failures than using the state to highlight the fiscal problems practically every state is experiencing.

Plenty of other states are barreling towards fiscal insolvency through the tried and true "tax and spend like there's no tomorrow" method (quite the opposite of suffering the consequences of some "trickle-down" tax experiment). Of course, to label California's fiscal mess, for example, as solely the product of liberal policy failures would also be disingenuous; the state's past Republican governors and awful initiative system have played a role. Yet the same people who try to pin Kansas' problems on conservative fiscal policy would have you believe that places like California, in worse shape than Kansas, are doing just fine—thriving even.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

Post by Simple Minded »

Typhoon wrote:Epilogue or should that be epitaph.

Reason | Kansas' Tax Cut Experiment Was A Predictable Failure
People like lower taxes, just not lower spending. Kansas is a lesson that you can’t have the former without the latter.
Still, Kansans can take comfort in knowing that their state is not the worst of the worst when it comes to tax policy (cue Illinois, center stage). Media coverage of the Kansas tax experiment has become part of of an ongoing game that attempts to blame the other side for every problem under the sun, while denying any criticism of your own camp. In doing so, the nuance and complexity of tax policy is lost. Many news outlets seem far more interested in pushing narratives of Republican failures than using the state to highlight the fiscal problems practically every state is experiencing.

Plenty of other states are barreling towards fiscal insolvency through the tried and true "tax and spend like there's no tomorrow" method (quite the opposite of suffering the consequences of some "trickle-down" tax experiment). Of course, to label California's fiscal mess, for example, as solely the product of liberal policy failures would also be disingenuous; the state's past Republican governors and awful initiative system have played a role. Yet the same people who try to pin Kansas' problems on conservative fiscal policy would have you believe that places like California, in worse shape than Kansas, are doing just fine—thriving even.
Considering that after perhaps the third or fourth grade, anyone who wants to balance a checkbook probably has the necessary math skills to do so...... It can only mean a lack of will to do so is the problem.

Both parties seem to think Arithmetic is both racist and unfair.

low fat ice cream, light beer, diet potato chips, lip-o-suction, low tar cigarettes, budget deficits, see a pattern?
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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That was a completely fact free post, Simple Minded. The tax cuts were an epic failure. They were implemented exactly as the GOP wanted them to be. Brownback was hoping this would catapult him into a viable Presidential candidacy. Instead, we've discovered yet again that the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

Post by Doc »

Today it was announced that the average of all state workers in Pennsylvania get $93,000 from the state in total per year. The state government is going broke and of course Democrats want to raise taxes to pay for state workers compensation. Now ask yourself where would the citizens of PA be without the government of PA?
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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What *should* the average public sector employee be making in Pennsylvania?
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

Post by Doc »

Zack Morris wrote:What *should* the average public sector employee be making in Pennsylvania?
Less than the avg PA tax payer salary of $47,540 per year. Which is just slightly more than half of what state employees make.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Kansas is like the portside's Shangri-La. It's this magical land that would be permanently happy and harmonious if they just listened to the portside. And every cough, sneeze or fever launches thousands of concerns about a mystical Kansas that is being magically controlled by starboard ogres.

Kansas is not doing terribly:

Personal income in Kansas remains around the national mean, it's employment to population ratio remains above the national average, it punches above its weight in developing non-liberal arts graduates, and it below the national averages in crime.

For whatever cock-ups are cooking in Kansas, they are treading at a slightly better pace than other states in the union and are showing decent numbers under the hood.

Kansas's biggest problem remains past overspecialization and a subsequent failure to develop more urban centers. Now you have approximately half of non-metro Kansas growing but the other half depopulating at a rapid pace. No state policy short of everyone holding their breath and passing out so they don't have to think about it is going to look good with these settlement changes.

This, however, was a problem that would've best been attacked between 1850 to 1950. I too think it a good idea to get in our time machine and tell Kansans to shape up and don't put all your eggs into farms and farm-related businesses. But alas! Too much other stuff to do first with that handy-dandy time machine.

At some point, they will need to hit rock bottom and then it will be important to cauterize and reassess the emigration/money drain going on. Until then, its a lot of politicians on hampster wheels- the only way you are going to do anything about it right now is to outlaw newer farming methods and technologies....and we'll get right on that after we use the time machine to warn the Kansans of their future peril. :)
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Meanwhile, somewhere in Ferris Buehler's homeroom class:

Illinois....Illinois....Illinois....


not a peep about the fiscal policy of Illinois
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Re: The effects of Tea Party fiscal policy on Kansas, Louisi

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Lol let alone Democrat paradise Venezuela.
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