Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

India has lots of Christians but they are a quiet minority.

It tends to cause a row when you put a statue of Mary in the front yard and milk starts coming out of her nipples.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


50 Maps of the U.S. Cultural Divide

Americans have been clustering themselves into cultural bubbles just as they have clustered in political bubbles.

very Interesting

.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

qdtKEEQxLSQ


:lol: :lol: :lol: .. where is MP ? ? given up ?

.
Mr. Perfect
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Resting comfortably. Everything is going to plan.
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noddy
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by noddy »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


50 Maps of the U.S. Cultural Divide

Americans have been clustering themselves into cultural bubbles just as they have clustered in political bubbles.

very Interesting

.
yes. good maps.
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Typhoon
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Typhoon »

A friend pointed out a Canadian show to me that I've been watching a bit.

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Where would it fit in the maps?
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Uche Americanus
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Uche Americanus »

Originally posted by Apollonius
Zack Morris wrote:
And who are they supposed to serve? America's cultural institutions have always been largely limited to whites, who have viciously opposed their expansion to "other people". This was plainly evident during the Obama administration when deep-seated cultural anxiety boiled over because those "other people" suddenly became more visible.





Though it's hard to think of a "person of colour" who invented anything with moving parts, in professional sports and pop music they are vastly over-represented, and have been since at least the time of Nixon.


But it's true, they're in the headlines a lot what with riots inspired by hate groups like Black Lives Matter.

And academics and journalists and people like you talked about race and racism every day because apart from global warming, nothing else was happening in the world and there was nothing else to talk about.

What a loon! I mean why make such great effort to peddle your ignorance when a simple or cursory review of the records will have disabused your mind of foolishness and by extension, humiliate yourself as a simpleton. Listen to you, "hard to think of a person of colour who invented anything with moving parts". Really? What do you know about history? Or did you think humanity became sophisticated from the intervention of whites? Only an arrogant and mis-educated urchin will dare proselytize such extraordinary and indecent ignorance. Maybe, just maybe, you should once in a while, learn to leave your coven of homosexuals to see how the rest of the world is and how it got to this point. If history is a 24-hour clock, the intervention and contribution of "whites" to that history occurred only at a quarter to midnight. What it means in the vernacular that even you will understand is, if human history is the length of one's arm the contributions of whites to it is just the clipping of a finger nail.

We know that the most successful species in history are the homo sapiens sapiens who created our present world and domesticated what was domesticable including fire and the "yugely" biggie: the invention of iron. The one singular and most important invention in history. For it bridged the chasm between barbarity and civilization. These were all inventions by to borrow your phrase, "people of colours". But I don't expect you to know that. I mean why be informed when you are entitle and have been convinced that ignorance and childish petulance is equal to knowledge.
Last edited by Uche Americanus on Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Uche Americanus
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Uche Americanus »

By Apollonius:
Thanks, Nonc. I was sure there was something.


But I was really hoping to bait Zack. I love it when he starts talking about evil.
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Apollonius

Well, you succeeded in baiting not only Zack but others including me. But this does not change my contention that you a loon.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Welcome back, Uche! Good to hear from you again!
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

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Uche Americanus
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Uche Americanus »

Originally posted by Mr. Perfect:
Zack Morris wrote:
The bottom line is that American culture was fundamentally evil before the advent of emancipation and mass immigration because all the lip service to noble ideals was never intended to extend beyond land-owning Anglo-Saxons. It wasn't until coloreds poured in -- and that includes European "non-whites", as they were considered, from Eastern and Southern Europe -- that these ideals were co-opted, put to the test, and made universal. The United States is certainly a better nation today than it was one hundred years ago.

We certainly did have Democrat slave owners.

And and why would coloreds pour into a fundamentally evil racist country
.

Good point. But... maybe, the colored folks understand that their ancestors, at least those that came here as captives or in indentured servitude, contributed greatly to building this country and its wealth. They are simply coming in to assure that this citadel will be perfected and last a bit much longer as an inspiration to many.
Uche Americanus
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Uche Americanus »

Originally posted by Nonc Hilaire
Welcome back, Uche! Good to hear from you again!

Thanks Nonc. I hope you are doing well. I did think of you especially how true your prediction came regarding Islamic terror in West Africa following the invasion of Libya. I thought of you because I was impressed that you saw this long before many did.

Also, noticed that you have switched camps, too?
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Wellcome back, Uche Americanus , welcome back

Our beloved America is in trouble.

Your valued input at this critical time will be greatly appreciated.



Singed

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Uche Americanus
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Uche Americanus »

Thanks Azari for your kind words. No doubt that the ship of state is in a great distress. And I don't know if the present political leadership is capable of sorting things out. Neither was Obama although he gave his best.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Uche Americanus wrote:
Originally posted by Nonc Hilaire
Welcome back, Uche! Good to hear from you again!

Thanks Nonc. I hope you are doing well. I did think of you especially how true your prediction came regarding Islamic terror in West Africa following the invasion of Libya. I thought of you because I was impressed that you saw this long before many did.

Also, noticed that you have switched camps, too?
Not sure which camp you are speaking of. My camp is righteousness and justice tempered by mercy. When I find myself in the wrong camp I do try to switch ASAP.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

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Apollonius
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Apollonius »

Welcome back Uche!


In addition to wanting to bait Zack (I love it when he talks dirty to me), that little joke was intended to trigger a response from anyone else who is too PC to see the truth, and so may be counted as a success. Don't be sore. Black Americans produced the greatest and most original American music. No one can be best at everything.


You need to chill. Maybe you need to distance yourself from "African values", which might be the ultimate source of your nasty little remark about "covens". We hear so much bad news from Africans and those who identify with their most primitive impulses. Please don't make it worse.



And come on. You've been peddling these Afrocentrist views for at least a decade. It's flying saucer stuff.



We don't know who "invented" fire; it could have been in Africa, or it could have been in Eurasia, where our prehistoric ancestors would have had special need of it.

No: Iron was not first invented by Africans and very little else was either.



One of the best long gone posters whom old-timers will remember fondly, once described best why this is. He didn't think genetics had much to do with it, in particular because at least some parts of Africa have such enormous genetic diversity, making it difficult to generalize. Someone else might counter that yes, but Africans have been largely isolated from the human gene pool at large and therefore lack Neanderthal (and other) genetic input, which everyone else has-- but still...

Dearth of navigable rivers, poor soils, perennial and long standing droughts, all take some blame. We could also note the millennia long importance of slavery to African economies, both internally, in an economy where manpower was more important than land, and externally, especially once the ruling classes in Africa grew accustomed to the luxuries bought from the international trade. But I agree with Collingwood, who guessed that disease has probably been the worst culprit. Humans evolved in Africa, and so did the parasites, bacteria, and viruses which we host.



Someone else on the old Spengler forum once recommended Afrocentrism: Mythical Pasts and Imagined Homes by Stephen Howe (Verso, 1998), which is certainly one of the best books on the subject. I just looked up the author again, but he seems to have dropped out of sight. I do remember from reading the short bio in the book that he was married to an African-American.




But no matter, I'll let you and HP can hash it out about who has contributed the most to civilization, the Pomegranates or the Africans.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ean-spicer

The White House barred several news organizations from an off-camera press briefing on Friday, handpicking a select group of reporters that included a number of conservative outlets friendly toward Donald Trump.

.
Simple Minded

Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Simple Minded »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ean-spicer

The White House barred several news organizations from an off-camera press briefing on Friday, handpicking a select group of reporters that included a number of conservative outlets friendly toward Donald Trump.

.
Maybe Trump thought they were illegal immigrants...... did ze haf any PAPERS?
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Apollonius wrote:.

But no matter, I'll let you and HP can hash it out about who has contributed the most to civilization, the Pomegranates or the Africans.

.


Good thoughts "Apollonius", excellent point


Your side last 500 yrs sank deeper and deeper in the "sh*t-pit" of barbarity .. doing all those atrocities in Africa and everywhere else .. notion higher GDP sign of civilization would mean Hitler would be the most civilized.

Start reading Zoroastrianism

.

Its basic maxims include:

* Humata, Hukhta, Huvarshta, which mean: Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds.

* There is only one path and that is the path of Truth.

* Do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, and then all beneficial rewards will come to you also.

.

Instead of repenting, asking for forgiveness to our beloved Africa (represented by Uche), where human spicy first started to walk on their 2-feet, you doubling down with nastiness.


Pfui :D :lol:


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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by noddy »

Apollonius has been pretty busy from his evil mastermind lair in rural canada - organsing slave trades and world wars across multiple centuries is hard work.

no wonder he needs to listen to relaxing baroque music in his downtime.

hopefully Uche's role as representative of all things african isnt too taxing, thats a very large amount of things to stay on top of.
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Uche Americanus wrote: We know that the most successful species in history are the homo sapiens sapiens ...
I'm definitely not jumping into this "who did what" fight and I'm all for "rah! rah! homo sapien" chest bumping but....

there are several species of insects, rodents and bacteria which may give us a run for "most successful species in history"...and that's leaving marine life out of the picture.

It may even be too soon to tell if we are even the most successful homo....homo erectus seems to have had a really impressive million year run.

Maybe it's safe to say that we beat the primates, and rightly so- those damn, dirty apes!

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Trump, Farage, Le Pen, Wilders et al. ARE liberal democrats

Post by Alexis »

Liberal democracy losing its appeal? :? :lol:

From a link posted by HP, Pepe Escobar reporting about a conference in Teheran
That was the background for serious discussions on how Iran (resistance against injustice), China (remixed Confucianism) and Russia (Eurasianism) are offering post-Enlightenment alternatives that transcend Western liberal democracy.
Most misguided. Escobar - or the people he's discussed with - is mixing foreign policy propositions / propaganda themes like Eurasianism or resistance against injustice with political regimes.

In reality, none of the regimes of these countries, namely:
- Theocracy (velayat-e-faqih)
- Technocratic dictatorship
- Autocracy-democracy mix
is post-Enlightenment in any shape nor form. All are versions of ancient systems, the only possible exception being Russia's... but then, only because of democratic elements in its mix :mrgreen:

As for liberal democracy, make no mistake: the "liberal" in there does not mean Liberal in the sense the word has come to have in the US.

Liberalism in its original meaning, which is what is meant in "liberal" democracy, is not about equal rights for citizens and non-citizens, it's not about open borders to all, it's not about unisex toilets nor about calling homosexual unions "marriages".

A liberal democracy is a democracy where basic freedoms are secured: freedom of thought and expression, freedom of religion, freedom to argue and vote for the opposition. Contemporary instances of this regime also insist on equality of all citizens before the law, no matter race nor creed. Freedom to have consensual sexual relations with whichever adult is the most recent addition to the mix.

Trump, Farage, Le Pen, Wilders, Petry... all of them ARE liberal democrats! Liberal democracy is certainly not losing its appeal in any American (North, South), European nor Asian country that is practicing it. Nor in those many African countries which started to practice it within the last 20-30 years. All these countries in fact want MORE of it, which in countries where democracy is most anciently implemented take the form of movements arguing for more referendums and direct democracy (Le Pen), movements rejecting influence of illiberal ideologies such as Islamism...

Come and experience liberal democracy... you won't want anything else :lol:

Russia only may be seen as a partial exception, but then it has practiced liberal democracy only for a few years and during a most destructive period, so liberal democracy naturally came to be associated with disorder and poverty in the eyes of many. And of course it did not venture very far from liberal democracy: contemporary Russia is an autocracy, but it is mostly liberal and has significant democratic elements.

As for the China, Iran, Saudi etc. of this world, these are countries which never experienced liberal democracy to begin with. When they do... they won't want anything else :P !
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by Typhoon »

Well argued.

The three alternative systems you mentioned are less than 50 years old in their current instantiations.

Their long term viability is still an open yet-to-be-determined question.
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Simple Minded

Re: Trump, Farage, Le Pen, Wilders et al. ARE liberal democr

Post by Simple Minded »

Alexis wrote:Liberal democracy losing its appeal? :? :lol:

From a link posted by HP, Pepe Escobar reporting about a conference in Teheran
That was the background for serious discussions on how Iran (resistance against injustice), China (remixed Confucianism) and Russia (Eurasianism) are offering post-Enlightenment alternatives that transcend Western liberal democracy.
Most misguided. Escobar - or the people he's discussed with - is mixing foreign policy propositions / propaganda themes like Eurasianism or resistance against injustice with political regimes.

In reality, none of the regimes of these countries, namely:
- Theocracy (velayat-e-faqih)
- Technocratic dictatorship
- Autocracy-democracy mix
is post-Enlightenment in any shape nor form. All are versions of ancient systems, the only possible exception being Russia's... but then, only because of democratic elements in its mix :mrgreen:

As for liberal democracy, make no mistake: the "liberal" in there does not mean Liberal in the sense the word has come to have in the US.

Liberalism in its original meaning, which is what is meant in "liberal" democracy, is not about equal rights for citizens and non-citizens, it's not about open borders to all, it's not about unisex toilets nor about calling homosexual unions "marriages".

A liberal democracy is a democracy where basic freedoms are secured: freedom of thought and expression, freedom of religion, freedom to argue and vote for the opposition. Contemporary instances of this regime also insist on equality of all citizens before the law, no matter race nor creed. Freedom to have consensual sexual relations with whichever adult is the most recent addition to the mix.

Trump, Farage, Le Pen, Wilders, Petry... all of them ARE liberal democrats! Liberal democracy is certainly not losing its appeal in any American (North, South), European nor Asian country that is practicing it. Nor in those many African countries which started to practice it within the last 20-30 years. All these countries in fact want MORE of it, which in countries where democracy is most anciently implemented take the form of movements arguing for more referendums and direct democracy (Le Pen), movements rejecting influence of illiberal ideologies such as Islamism...

Come and experience liberal democracy... you won't want anything else :lol:

Russia only may be seen as a partial exception, but then it has practiced liberal democracy only for a few years and during a most destructive period, so liberal democracy naturally came to be associated with disorder and poverty in the eyes of many. And of course it did not venture very far from liberal democracy: contemporary Russia is an autocracy, but it is mostly liberal and has significant democratic elements.

As for the China, Iran, Saudi etc. of this world, these are countries which never experienced liberal democracy to begin with. When they do... they won't want anything else :P !
Iranians giving up their superior culture and moving to the West?

Really?

Do you have any data points that would suggest that this has EVER happened? ;) even once? :P
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Alexis
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Re: Trump, Farage, Le Pen, Wilders et al. ARE liberal democr

Post by Alexis »

Simple Minded wrote:Iranians giving up their superior culture and moving to the West?

Really?

Do you have any data points that would suggest that this has EVER happened? ;) even once? :P
Oh it wouldn't be about abandoning any culture whatsoever. I would think of it more as adoption of a successful innovation.

Come to think of it, quite a few people in France as well as in Kenya have come to writing and reading printed texts, and they did not become Chinese.
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Re: Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

Post by YMix »

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