Healthcare in the USA

Mr. Perfect
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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When Obamacare fails no government intervention will ever be tried again. Obamacare guaranteed that single payer will ever happen.
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noddy
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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Nonc Hilaire wrote:
noddy wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote:
Nonc Hilaire wrote: This is a crisis today! All insurance has been kneecapped by ACA and Obama job losses. The number of people who write a check for private insurance is so tiny it is irrelevant.

Your thinking is several years old. Right now anyone who shows up in the ER can have the government pay their entire bill. That is single payer. The only things the taxpayer does not pay for is orthopedics and dentistry. Private insurance (or ACA) gives the hospital the right to sue you or your estate. Smart people say they are uninsured, refuse to sign anything except an authorization to treat and avoid that voluntary exposure.

The FSA knows exactly how this game is played. They get free tx and laugh at the hospitals stealing the life savings of the insured. ER people know this, but when ACA fails in four months it will become common knowledge. Then the functional reality will become the official reality.

While you are out catching ideological and political butterflies I get daily reports from the ER. A homeless junkie in withdrawl can call 911 and get a free ambulance ride to an ER he could easily walk to. They will be given a complete workup, get a new prescription for dope and sent out the door while the taxpayer pays the bill.

This has been going on for over twenty years.
60-80% of the population want their private insurance. People have been abusing the er for a generation or more. None of this means single payer. It will never happen.
his point was that walk ins at ER get free coverage paid for by the tax payer so you do have single payer with opt out private just like everyone else does.

however for political reasons its best not to call it that or it gets knickers in a knot - so this means nothing is done about streamlining the costs or dealing with the realities of whats happening.

this is the australian system, by another name, but with rorts on top.
Not exactly. My point is when ACA fails there will be no congressional argument. No ideologies. The current caid/care system will have some patches applied and will be used by everybody by executive order.

The ideological discussions are over, abandoned by both parties.
yep.

ideology seems to dead end at communist takeover versus poor being put into debtors prisons.

as an outsider i still stand by my assessment because unless you do start putting all the poor into debtors prisons then ER will continue to deal with that on the taxpayers purse.

the next step is bulk billed public gp's to take the load off hospital emergency and then bingo, you are 90% of the way to our system.
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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The er thing has been around for a generation. In no way will it trigger single payer.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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Mr. Perfect wrote:The er thing has been around for a generation. In no way will it trigger single payer.
It will not trigger single payer. Along with care/caid it will become single payer because it is the path of least resistance. It requires no vote, simply deep state approval. When people start dying all 3 parties will rush to support expanded waivers.

The house of cards starts falling Jan 1. and expanded waivers will begin to take over from the failed insurance companies.
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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No.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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Mr. Perfect wrote:No.
Take a guess at least. What will happen and when? Good jobs are gone and the insurance industry is mortally wounded by ZIRP.

Forget your faith in the salvific power of the healthcare cartel because they will not go back to the 1970's business model even if they could.
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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None of that is real. obamacare will die a death, next month, next year, whenever, one bad headline from repeal, and then no one will touch government insurance again. It's killed the Democrats too many times. Bernie bros are running on it, Clinton cronies are running from it, and the cronies will win again next time for the nomination.

After that, eventually the market will fix it once people have to pay enough of their own premium. Costs are so high because of regulation. Under the employment model voters are shielded from the real costs of care. When they are no longer shielded the political reality will change and massive deregulation will occur, costs will drop an we'll be in a capitalist paradise.

Short answer.
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Typhoon
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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Mr. Perfect wrote: . . .

After that, eventually the market will fix it once people have to pay enough of their own premium. Costs are so high because of regulation. Under the employment model voters are shielded from the real costs of care. When they are no longer shielded the political reality will change and massive deregulation will occur, costs will drop an we'll be in a capitalist paradise.

. . .
I'd sooner bet on a Trump impeachment before 2020 or a Second Coming.
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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Ok. But what do you know about US healthcare.
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Typhoon
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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Mr. Perfect wrote:Ok. But what do you know about US healthcare.
A little, but I do know more about human nature.
Been spending most their lives,
Dreamin' 'bout a capitalist's paradise.
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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Capitalism produced the device you are using, cheap and powerful. No reason we can't do the same for healthcare.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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Mr. Perfect wrote:Capitalism produced the device you are using, cheap and powerful. No reason we can't do the same for healthcare.
Trump decides to continue Obamacare subsidies. Really no choice but to do so.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-p ... story.html
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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And...
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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This is an area we hold our breath on robotics.
noddy
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:This is an area we hold our breath on robotics.
yep, quick lube change and kick em back out the door.
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Typhoon
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:This is an area we hold our breath on robotics.
The first impact of machine learning will be on diagnosis, rather than treatment.

For example, given that the median income of a US based diagnostic radiologist is about USD 500,000,
there is plenty of opportunities for cost savings through automation.

With regards to treatment, the cost of new drug development and testing through clinical trials can prohibitive: about USD 1,000,000,000 per drug
If machine learning can assist in new drug discovery and improve the probability of demonstrating efficacy and safety during trials,
then this may lead to further cost reductions.
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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Pretty much all you need to do is eat out of a garden and you'll never get diabetes, cancer, heart disease, parkinsons, etc. And not face any catastrophic costs. The high costs CS is referring to are almost entirely due to government regulation.

But something NH brought up but didn't realize, is that almost nobody but me knows, the subsidy section of obamacare is actually medicaid privatization.

Used to be Medicaid was a welfare benefits, but they turned it into a voucher program without realizing it.

obamacare actually is the path to entitlement privatization.

You just got redpilled.
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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noddy wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:This is an area we hold our breath on robotics.
yep, quick lube change and kick em back out the door.
all watched over by machines of loving grace
"
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Typhoon wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:This is an area we hold our breath on robotics.
The first impact of machine learning will be on diagnosis, rather than treatment.

For example, given that the median income of a US based diagnostic radiologist is about USD 500,000,
there is plenty of opportunities for cost savings through automation.

With regards to treatment, the cost of new drug development and testing through clinical trials can prohibitive: about USD 1,000,000,000 per drug
If machine learning can assist in new drug discovery and improve the probability of demonstrating efficacy and safety during trials,
then this may lead to further cost reductions.
Right, diagnosis alone can be a nice penny-saver.

...though I'd hate to be the company whose Dr.Roboto makes the first mistaken diagnosis.
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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We need to stop first dollar coverage too but good luck to the politician who brings up that uncomfortable fact. They'll be hanging from a lamppost before the next dawn.
Mr. Perfect
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Re: Healthcare in the USA

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We need to have government get out of the whole thing.
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