Healthcare in the USA

[Nonc Hilaire]

I get to listen to how Obamacare works in the ER every day.

1) Patient always comes into the ER. Without a private physician, that is the only entrance to the hospital.

2) By law, the ER must treat every person regardless of ability to pay. Person is asked for insurance information, and if they are covered by Obamacare they deny having insurance. Not a crime.

3) Why? The deductable and co-pay will be $2k-$5k. No insurance and they may save that money.

4) If they have a condition requiring extended care they can suddenly remember that they have insurance later.

Insurance schemes fix very little. We need a fair and open system with public pricing. Right now, even with Obamacare, the price of health is the maximum the system thinks they can extract from you.

[Mr. Perfect]

One major source of wasteful spending in the US healthcare system begins with medical school, where the supply of new students is artificially limited below demand. Doctors in the US are dramatically overpaid and barriers to entry in the profession are needlessly high. Many states also restrict NPs and dental hygienists from opening their own medical and dental practices, respectively. One does not need to be a dentist to perform check-ups, fill cavities, etc. States which permit this see lower dentist salaries on average, hence expansion to more states is vigorously opposed by sleazy local businessmen (i.e., dentists and doctors).

All the result of government regulation. And problems no Democrat has solved anywhere, especially in obamacare.

[Simple Minded]

Israel has the highest number of lawyers per capita, yet healthcare costs per capita are among the lowest.

Due to immigration policy or walls?

[Simple Minded]

I get to listen to how Obamacare works in the ER every day.

1) Patient always comes into the ER. Without a private physician, that is the only entrance to the hospital.

2) By law, the ER must treat every person regardless of ability to pay. Person is asked for insurance information, and if they are covered by Obamacare they deny having insurance. Not a crime.

3) Why? The deductable and co-pay will be $2k-$5k. No insurance and they may save that money.

4) If they have a condition requiring extended care they can suddenly remember that they have insurance later.

Insurance schemes fix very little. We need a fair and open system with public pricing. Right now, even with Obamacare, the price of health is the maximum the system thinks they can extract from you.

Fascinating nonc. Thanks for sharing. Amen, deregulate human medicine to the level of veterinary medicine. Easy to call around and find out prices before taking putting your animal (or mother-in-law) in the car. No reason why buying medical services should be any different than buying any other consumer item.

I expect eventually there will be a two tier system like the US Post Office and FedEx, UPS, etc.

[Mr. Perfect]

Issue is not # of lawyers .. issue is the Laws permitting suing for medical malpractice

In Canada, pretty much no suing for medical malpractice (very few) .. complain to "chamber of medicine of Canada" is 95% due to sexual cases (young doctors in small cities, villages, can not date the girls in the same village as everybody their patient, must go to next village for dating .. )

Have not heard any medical suing in Germany or France.

In US, suing for medical malpractice main business for lawyers.

Also .. one other interesting with the lawyers is "Product liability Insurance"

Some products, price consists of 70% insurance for product liability and 305 (or less) the product itself .. like light planes .. planes which should cost $ 50K , cost $ 350K because of the lawyers have sued and got 100s millions damage for rubbish claims.

Lawyers ruin America for no benefit .. all rubbish.

Lol trial lawyers are Democrat constituency.

[Doc]

One major source of wasteful spending in the US healthcare system begins with medical school, where the supply of new students is artificially limited below demand. Doctors in the US are dramatically overpaid and barriers to entry in the profession are needlessly high. Many states also restrict NPs and dental hygienists from opening their own medical and dental practices, respectively. One does not need to be a dentist to perform check-ups, fill cavities, etc. States which permit this see lower dentist salaries on average, hence expansion to more states is vigorously opposed by sleazy local businessmen (i.e., dentists and doctors).

I read a headline today (but haven't confirmed) that the White House's own analysis of Obamacare Light reportedly predicted more uninsured than the CBO estimate Independent analyses predict that Trump-voting states will be hit the hardest. Thousands could die. I say: let them eat Trump steak!

I hope this thing passes ex post haste!

CBO is who said 24 million people would sign up for ObamaDontCare. They originally said 20 million had to sign up for it to work. The same CBO that claimed ObamaDontCare wasn't a tax when it was indeed a tax. The Obama Admin admitted it was a tax before the supreme court. Of course we now know it was never intended to work nor were the statements "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" and "if you like your health care plan you can keep you health care plan" true
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[Zack Morris]

Blah blah blah government regulation blah blah blah.

There will never again be a deregulated healthcare system in the world. We had that in the 19th century. Not going back. No country in the world has one.

[Zack Morris]

CBO is who said 24 million people would sign up for ObamaDontCare. They originally said 20 million had to sign up for it to work. The same CBO that claimed ObamaDontCare wasn't a tax when it was indeed a tax.

Haha!

Blah blah blah.

You would be the first one touting CBO numbers if they agreed with you, just like you did with the jobs report after years of claiming it was phony.

Now that Americans no longer believe in facts, it'll be that much easier to think of ways to rip them off

[Mr. Perfect]

Blah blah blah government regulation blah blah blah.

There will never again be a deregulated healthcare system in the world. We had that in the 19th century. Not going back. No country in the world has one.

We are a few years away.

[Mr. Perfect]

CBO is who said 24 million people would sign up for ObamaDontCare. They originally said 20 million had to sign up for it to work. The same CBO that claimed ObamaDontCare wasn't a tax when it was indeed a tax.

Haha!

Blah blah blah.

You would be the first one touting CBO numbers if they agreed with you, just like you did with the jobs report after years of claiming it was phony.

Now that Americans no longer believe in facts, it'll be that much easier to think of ways to rip them off

Lol. The CBO now has a long record of failure. Either way obamacare was passed on lies and that is merely a part of the historical record of the destruction of the Democrat party.

obamacare destroyed your party yet you cling to it even now. Democrats are a fascinating study in neurosis.

[Simple Minded]

The part I enjoy the most about these threads that discuss how robbing Peter to pay Paul should be done for the "common good," is that they expose how subjective the concept of "common good" is.

Kinda like common sense, "we" got it, but "they" don't. do ya wanna see the stats?

Few people remain in the Peter or Paul camp their entire lives, or for that matter, many switch camps throughout each day. I have also noted that most people like being on the receiving end and dislike being on the paying end.

Group identity and where to draw the lines? Outliers and Black Swans are everywhere!

[Simple Minded]

Now that Americans no longer believe in facts, it'll be that much easier to think of ways to rip them off

like I said before Zack:

An excellent point Zack, that was exactly the thinking of the Democrats when they passed Obamacare.

"We can't pass up this once in a lifetime opportunity to seize power!"

[Nonc Hilaire]

Blah blah blah government regulation blah blah blah.

There will never again be a deregulated healthcare system in the world. We had that in the 19th century. Not going back. No country in the world has one.

Both right and wrong. Consumer protection regulations are good. Regulations to protect cartel profits and prevent an open marketplace are bad.

I think you and Mr. P might be in general agreement on specific regulations, but you guys are talking about two different things when you dump all regulations into the same pot.

F'rinstance: regulations prevent Medicare/Medicaid from negotiating lower medication costs. Good or bad?

F'rinstance: regulations prevent Medicare/Medicaid from paying for aromatherapy and homeopathy. Good or bad?

[Heracleum Persicum]

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It Pushes Out Older People

. . penalizing older patients and rewarding younger ones. According to the C.B.O. report, the bill would make health insurance so unaffordable for many older Americans that they would simply leave the market and join the ranks of the uninsured.

The remaining pool of people would be comparatively younger and healthier and, thus, less expensive to cover.

Other changes would help make health insurance skimpier — cheaper, but with deductibles that are higher than those criticized by Republicans under Obamacare.

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[Simple Minded]

Blah blah blah government regulation blah blah blah.

There will never again be a deregulated healthcare system in the world. We had that in the 19th century. Not going back. No country in the world has one.

Both right and wrong. Consumer protection regulations are good. Regulations to protect cartel profits and prevent an open marketplace are bad.

I think you and Mr. P might be in general agreement on specific regulations, but you guys are talking about two different things when you dump all regulations into the same pot.

F'rinstance: regulations prevent Medicare/Medicaid from negotiating lower medication costs. Good or bad?

F'rinstance: regulations prevent Medicare/Medicaid from paying for aromatherapy and homeopathy. Good or bad?

Agreed. Mr. P & Zack have a lot more in common than either are willing to admit.

In a free market, if I trust my veterinarian enough to perform minor outpatient procedures or surgery on me (treating an infection, lancing a boil, removing a wart, performing a vasectomy, etc.), why should I be prevented from hiring him by law?

Who benefits?

[Nonc Hilaire]

Blah blah blah government regulation blah blah blah.

There will never again be a deregulated healthcare system in the world. We had that in the 19th century. Not going back. No country in the world has one.

Both right and wrong. Consumer protection regulations are good. Regulations to protect cartel profits and prevent an open marketplace are bad.

I think you and Mr. P might be in general agreement on specific regulations, but you guys are talking about two different things when you dump all regulations into the same pot.

F'rinstance: regulations prevent Medicare/Medicaid from negotiating lower medication costs. Good or bad?

F'rinstance: regulations prevent Medicare/Medicaid from paying for aromatherapy and homeopathy. Good or bad?

Agreed. Mr. P & Zack have a lot more in common than either are willing to admit.

In a free market, if I trust my veterinarian enough to perform minor outpatient procedures or surgery on me (treating an infection, lancing a boil, removing a wart, performing a vasectomy, etc.), why should I be prevented from hiring him by law?

Who benefits?

I had my vasectomy done by a veterinarian and it was sheer hell trying to sleep with that dam cone around my neck.

[Simple Minded]

I had my vasectomy done by a veterinarian and it was sheer hell trying to sleep with that dam cone around my neck.

It's for your own good, otherwise you'd be licking your balls so much, it wouldn't heal and might get infected. Didn't they explain that to you?



I actually asked my vet what he would charge to do a vasectomy on me, it was a lot less that the urologist! Hopefully, under Trump care Yurologists won't cost as much!

I heard that under Obamacare, vasectomies are free. They just hand you a rubber band.

[Mr. Perfect]

Both right and wrong. Consumer protection regulations are good. Regulations to protect cartel profits and prevent an open marketplace are bad.

I think you and Mr. P might be in general agreement on specific regulations, but you guys are talking about two different things when you dump all regulations into the same pot.

F'rinstance: regulations prevent Medicare/Medicaid from negotiating lower medication costs. Good or bad?

F'rinstance: regulations prevent Medicare/Medicaid from paying for aromatherapy and homeopathy. Good or bad?

Medicare/Medicaid are bad.

[Mr. Perfect]

Agreed. Mr. P & Zack have a lot more in common than either are willing to admit.

In a free market, if I trust my veterinarian enough to perform minor outpatient procedures or surgery on me (treating an infection, lancing a boil, removing a wart, performing a vasectomy, etc.), why should I be prevented from hiring him by law?

You shouldn't.

[Simple Minded]

Agreed. Mr. P & Zack have a lot more in common than either are willing to admit.

In a free market, if I trust my veterinarian enough to perform minor outpatient procedures or surgery on me (treating an infection, lancing a boil, removing a wart, performing a vasectomy, etc.), why should I be prevented from hiring him by law?

You shouldn't.

You made my day Mr. P. thanks!

[Heracleum Persicum]

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This from 2014 .. when Harper was Canadian PM, a right wing conservative party leader



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There is, in some aria, a waiting list for some "elective medical procedures" .. elective means there is no danger and things can wait a bit.

The family GP decides how urgent is the case .. if he thinks it could be cancer, you get same day scan, if you have shoulder pain, you get scan in 2 weeks.

There is ZERO doubt US will end up with single payer medical insurance, but in the meantime many will die from lack of insurance


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[Heracleum Persicum]

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[Mr. Perfect]

There will never be single payer in the United States.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

There will never be single payer in the United States.

Why not ?

Aim is to have good health care for ALL americans.

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[Mr. Perfect]

Every time the Democrats have tried to put government in charge of health care they have been slaughtered at the ballot box.

It's not really in my interest to explain why. In 2017 if you can't figure it out you have a problem on your hands

It's in my interest to have you promote it over and over again so that you can be slaughtered over and over again.