Healthcare in the USA

[Mr. Perfect]

The whole system runs on cash. No offense but you have a really really incoherent position.

[Nonc Hilaire]

The whole system runs on cash. No offense but you have a really really incoherent position.

Not at all. The system runs on credit, not cash. Only the government has unlimited credit because of the power to tax.

Public payments are what covers the healthcare nut. Private pay rides on top of that base and is pure gravy. Without public subsidy the system private pay relies on would not exist.

Mr. P, you still have not put forth any idea of what will happen to healthcare after ACA. Your complete bumfuzzlement leads me to suspect you may be a Republican

[Doc]

No, healthcare is not a capitalist enterprise. It depends on cartelization, and the system cannot run on a cash basis. Without support from the public the hospitals would close for everyone.

What will happen is care/caid will remain and new waiver systems will implemented.

The systemic collapse is assured. There will be an emergency national assistance program which will quickly default to the care/caid CMS accounting system simply because that is all we have.

Government made this mess Government is not the solution.

[Nonc Hilaire]

No, healthcare is not a capitalist enterprise. It depends on cartelization, and the system cannot run on a cash basis. Without support from the public the hospitals would close for everyone.

What will happen is care/caid will remain and new waiver systems will implemented.

The systemic collapse is assured. There will be an emergency national assistance program which will quickly default to the care/caid CMS accounting system simply because that is all we have.

Government made this mess Government is not the solution.

Irrelevant and non-responsive. Who did it is water under the bridge.

THE DIE IS CAST. WHAT WILL HAPPEN? THAT IS THE QUESTION!

[Mr. Perfect]

We already answered. obamacare will be repealed and things will go back to normal. The whole system runs on cash.

[Nonc Hilaire]

We already answered. obamacare will be repealed and things will go back to normal. The whole system runs on cash.

Trump says no repeal. Let it burn. Congress is hiding under their desks.

Mr.P. claimed he had options. Big nope; nothing up there but happy thoughts. Caid, care, EMTALA/ERISA, CMS and USPHS are entrenched and working. New caid waivers will be designed to take up the slack. The easy solution will win.

Three states will have counties with no ACA coverage in four months. Unaffordable premium increases for everybody else. That is when and where we will see the single payer nose slip in under the tent. Waivers as a temporary measure which will never be removed.

[Mr. Perfect]

Lol you still aren't making sense. As you said, obamacare will continue to fail, with big swaths of the country losing insurers among other things. This will force the congress to revote and repeal. We are one vote in the Senate now from repeal.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Lol you still aren't making sense. As you said, obamacare will continue to fail, with big swaths of the country losing insurers among other things. This will force the congress to revote and repeal. We are one vote in the Senate now from repeal.

Repeal will do nothing except make GOP the goat. The only possible solution would have been to apply fair business practices and anti-trust laws to healthcare years ago.

Now it is too late. The house of cards comes down in 2018 regardless. Government healthcare is the only option. The toothpaste is not going back into the tube.

[Mr. Perfect]

Lol, you still aren't making sense. When obamacare gets a bad enough headline it's gone the way of the dodo bird. The US public wants to keep their private hc by 60-80% margins. Single player has no possible route forward. obamacare guaranteed that.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Lol, you still aren't making sense. When obamacare gets a bad enough headline it's gone the way of the dodo bird. The US public wants to keep their private hc by 60-80% margins. Single player has no possible route forward. obamacare guaranteed that.

This is a crisis today! All insurance has been kneecapped by ACA and Obama job losses. The number of people who write a check for private insurance is so tiny it is irrelevant.

Your thinking is several years old. Right now anyone who shows up in the ER can have the government pay their entire bill. That is single payer. The only things the taxpayer does not pay for is orthopedics and dentistry. Private insurance (or ACA) gives the hospital the right to sue you or your estate. Smart people say they are uninsured, refuse to sign anything except an authorization to treat and avoid that voluntary exposure.

The FSA knows exactly how this game is played. They get free tx and laugh at the hospitals stealing the life savings of the insured. ER people know this, but when ACA fails in four months it will become common knowledge. Then the functional reality will become the official reality.

While you are out catching ideological and political butterflies I get daily reports from the ER. A homeless junkie in withdrawl can call 911 and get a free ambulance ride to an ER he could easily walk to. They will be given a complete workup, get a new prescription for dope and sent out the door while the taxpayer pays the bill.

This has been going on for over twenty years.

[Typhoon]

It would appear that some American are doing their patriotic bit to help resolve this issue:

Bloomberg | Americans Are Dying Younger, Saving Corporations Billions

Steady improvements in American life expectancy have stalled, and more Americans are dying at younger ages. But for companies straining under the burden of their pension obligations, the distressing trend could have a grim upside: If people don’t end up living as long as they were projected to just a few years ago, their employers ultimately won’t have to pay them as much in pension and other lifelong retirement benefits.

On the other hand, people in Japan are living longer than ever. A yuggge problem for the government and private pension funds.

The once and potential future PM is on record opining that

J-Times | "Over 90. How much longer do you intend to keep living?"

Of course, he had to apologize.

[Mr. Perfect]

It would appear that some American are doing their patriotic bit to help resolve this issue:

Bloomberg | Americans Are Dying Younger, Saving Corporations Billions

Steady improvements in American life expectancy have stalled, and more Americans are dying at younger ages. But for companies straining under the burden of their pension obligations, the distressing trend could have a grim upside: If people don’t end up living as long as they were projected to just a few years ago, their employers ultimately won’t have to pay them as much in pension and other lifelong retirement benefits.

On the other hand, people in Japan are living longer than ever. A yuggge problem for the government and private pension funds.

The once and potential future PM is on record opining that

J-Times | "Over 90. How much longer do you intend to keep living?"

Of course, he had to apologize.

What does this have to do with single payer.

[Mr. Perfect]

This is a crisis today! All insurance has been kneecapped by ACA and Obama job losses. The number of people who write a check for private insurance is so tiny it is irrelevant.

Your thinking is several years old. Right now anyone who shows up in the ER can have the government pay their entire bill. That is single payer. The only things the taxpayer does not pay for is orthopedics and dentistry. Private insurance (or ACA) gives the hospital the right to sue you or your estate. Smart people say they are uninsured, refuse to sign anything except an authorization to treat and avoid that voluntary exposure.

The FSA knows exactly how this game is played. They get free tx and laugh at the hospitals stealing the life savings of the insured. ER people know this, but when ACA fails in four months it will become common knowledge. Then the functional reality will become the official reality.

While you are out catching ideological and political butterflies I get daily reports from the ER. A homeless junkie in withdrawl can call 911 and get a free ambulance ride to an ER he could easily walk to. They will be given a complete workup, get a new prescription for dope and sent out the door while the taxpayer pays the bill.

This has been going on for over twenty years.

60-80% of the population want their private insurance. People have been abusing the er for a generation or more. None of this means single payer. It will never happen.

[Zack Morris]

60-80% of the population want their private insurance. People have been abusing the er for a generation or more. None of this means single payer. It will never happen.

No they don't. Nobody cares about insurance except far right wing corporatist idealogues. People want health care. Most Americans don't know what insurance really is. They don't know what the ACA is. They couldn't explain how the system worked before or how it works now. They want health care, though, and they don't want to go bankrupt paying for it or be forced to forego treatment out of fear of being walloped by massive, unpredictable bills that are impossible to determine at time-of-service.

That's why no one else in the world uses the broken US model and no one else in the world has ever wanted to move to the US model.

And it's why we're going to have single payer health care. Maybe in 4 years. Maybe in 8 (America is usually a laggard when it comes to social progress after all) but we're going to have beautiful health care. Everyone will be covered. And you and me will be paying for it. And you will be thanking almighty Jesus Christ for bestowing upon you, in his mercy, the glorious opportunity to do good in the world and liberate yourself from the evil that is currently steering you toward an eternity in Hell.

[Mr. Perfect]

And I think that wraps up the issue, whatever Zack Morris says the opposite happens. Nice little thread guys.

[Nonc Hilaire]

60-80% of the population want their private insurance. People have been abusing the er for a generation or more. None of this means single payer. It will never happen.

No they don't. Nobody cares about insurance except far right wing corporatist idealogues. People want health care. Most Americans don't know what insurance really is. They don't know what the ACA is. They couldn't explain how the system worked before or how it works now. They want health care, though, and they don't want to go bankrupt paying for it or be forced to forego treatment out of fear of being walloped by massive, unpredictable bills that are impossible to determine at time-of-service.

That's why no one else in the world uses the broken US model and no one else in the world has ever wanted to move to the US model.

And it's why we're going to have single payer health care. Maybe in 4 years. Maybe in 8 (America is usually a laggard when it comes to social progress after all) but we're going to have beautiful health care. Everyone will be covered. And you and me will be paying for it. And you will be thanking almighty Jesus Christ for bestowing upon you, in his mercy, the glorious opportunity to do good in the world and liberate yourself from the evil that is currently steering you toward an eternity in Hell.

Not quite. We are going to see bare bones medicare for everyone, and very expensive private pay beyond the minimum. Patients will not be allowed to sue anymore, and family members will be required to subrogate all potential expenses before extended care is given. Private insurances will simply vanish with the drop in employment, lower median pay and the interest rate. This will begin in four months and snowball through 2018.

PS: The agreement to mediation of grievances and subrogation clauses are already in all hospital consent to care contracts, but you can still strike them out. Be sure to do this if you or a family member is hospitalized. The hospital will not point them out.

[Heracleum Persicum]

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60-80% of the population want their private insurance. People have been abusing the er for a generation or more. None of this means single payer. It will never happen.

No they don't. Nobody cares about insurance except far right wing corporatist idealogues. People want health care. Most Americans don't know what insurance really is. They don't know what the ACA is. They couldn't explain how the system worked before or how it works now. They want health care, though, and they don't want to go bankrupt paying for it or be forced to forego treatment out of fear of being walloped by massive, unpredictable bills that are impossible to determine at time-of-service.

That's why no one else in the world uses the broken US model and no one else in the world has ever wanted to move to the US model.

And it's why we're going to have single payer health care. Maybe in 4 years. Maybe in 8 (America is usually a laggard when it comes to social progress after all) but we're going to have beautiful health care. Everyone will be covered. And you and me will be paying for it. And you will be thanking almighty Jesus Christ for bestowing upon you, in his mercy, the glorious opportunity to do good in the world and liberate yourself from the evil that is currently steering you toward an eternity in Hell.

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Not quite. We are going to see bare bones medicare for everyone, and very expensive private pay beyond the minimum. Patients will not be allowed to sue anymore, and family members will be required to subrogate all potential expenses before extended care is given. Private insurances will simply vanish with the drop in employment, lower median pay and the interest rate. This will begin in four months and snowball through 2018.

PS: The agreement to mediation of grievances and subrogation clauses are already in all hospital consent to care contracts, but you can still strike them out. Be sure to do this if you or a family member is hospitalized. The hospital will not point them out.

.

Why all this when you have a wonderful functional Canadian system if front of you to adapt in US ? ? ?

Swallow the pride and adapt Canadian model

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[Mr. Perfect]

There will never be single payer in the US, ever. Every word you type elects more Republicans committed to private insurance.

[Doc]

childbearingdeath.jpg (197.73 KiB) Viewed 280 times

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

Resources must be rationed, and bureaucrats will do so for their own purposes and not be the way regional hospitals do.........

[Doc]

Resources must be rationed, and bureaucrats will do so for their own purposes and not be the way regional hospitals do.........

Yeah Cronies need lots of resources.

[Heracleum Persicum]

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There will never be single payer in the US, ever.

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Single Payer or Bust

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[Mr. Perfect]

New York times is fake news. There will never be single payer in the US.

[noddy]

This is a crisis today! All insurance has been kneecapped by ACA and Obama job losses. The number of people who write a check for private insurance is so tiny it is irrelevant.

Your thinking is several years old. Right now anyone who shows up in the ER can have the government pay their entire bill. That is single payer. The only things the taxpayer does not pay for is orthopedics and dentistry. Private insurance (or ACA) gives the hospital the right to sue you or your estate. Smart people say they are uninsured, refuse to sign anything except an authorization to treat and avoid that voluntary exposure.

The FSA knows exactly how this game is played. They get free tx and laugh at the hospitals stealing the life savings of the insured. ER people know this, but when ACA fails in four months it will become common knowledge. Then the functional reality will become the official reality.

While you are out catching ideological and political butterflies I get daily reports from the ER. A homeless junkie in withdrawl can call 911 and get a free ambulance ride to an ER he could easily walk to. They will be given a complete workup, get a new prescription for dope and sent out the door while the taxpayer pays the bill.

This has been going on for over twenty years.

60-80% of the population want their private insurance. People have been abusing the er for a generation or more. None of this means single payer. It will never happen.

his point was that walk ins at ER get free coverage paid for by the tax payer so you do have single payer with opt out private just like everyone else does.

however for political reasons its best not to call it that or it gets knickers in a knot - so this means nothing is done about streamlining the costs or dealing with the realities of whats happening.

this is the australian system, by another name, but with rorts on top.

[Nonc Hilaire]

This is a crisis today! All insurance has been kneecapped by ACA and Obama job losses. The number of people who write a check for private insurance is so tiny it is irrelevant.

Your thinking is several years old. Right now anyone who shows up in the ER can have the government pay their entire bill. That is single payer. The only things the taxpayer does not pay for is orthopedics and dentistry. Private insurance (or ACA) gives the hospital the right to sue you or your estate. Smart people say they are uninsured, refuse to sign anything except an authorization to treat and avoid that voluntary exposure.

The FSA knows exactly how this game is played. They get free tx and laugh at the hospitals stealing the life savings of the insured. ER people know this, but when ACA fails in four months it will become common knowledge. Then the functional reality will become the official reality.

While you are out catching ideological and political butterflies I get daily reports from the ER. A homeless junkie in withdrawl can call 911 and get a free ambulance ride to an ER he could easily walk to. They will be given a complete workup, get a new prescription for dope and sent out the door while the taxpayer pays the bill.

This has been going on for over twenty years.

60-80% of the population want their private insurance. People have been abusing the er for a generation or more. None of this means single payer. It will never happen.

his point was that walk ins at ER get free coverage paid for by the tax payer so you do have single payer with opt out private just like everyone else does.

however for political reasons its best not to call it that or it gets knickers in a knot - so this means nothing is done about streamlining the costs or dealing with the realities of whats happening.

this is the australian system, by another name, but with rorts on top.

Not exactly. My point is when ACA fails there will be no congressional argument. No ideologies. The current caid/care system will have some patches applied and will be used by everybody by executive order.

The ideological discussions are over, abandoned by both parties.