Extremism in the USA

Simple Minded

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

YMix wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:I love to ask people of your mindset: "Tomorrow, you decide to become a career predator. You live on the border between two counties. The county to the west has very lax gun laws and a large percentage of the population is armed. The county to the east has very strict gun laws and a small percentage of the population is armed. In which county do you decide to practise your new trade?"
Which of the two counties has a big city with an understaffed/overworked/not very experienced police force?
Common sense would dictate that the county with the disarmed population would have the understaffed/overworked/experienced police force, while the county with the voluntarily armed population would have the overstaffed/underworked/inexperienced police force. Stopping violent crime vs. writing traffic tickets.

My guess is most humans would not want to be a cop in the former county, or a career predator in the later county, due to increased chance of personal injury and/or death. Not very good material for an intellectual internet discussion, but hey, that just theory vs. practice.

In theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice, they're not.
User avatar
YMix
Posts: 4631
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:53 am
Location: Department of Congruity - Report any outliers here

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by YMix »

Simple Minded wrote:Common sense would dictate that the county with the disarmed population would have the understaffed/overworked/experienced police force, while the county with the voluntarily armed population would have the overstaffed/underworked/inexperienced police force. Stopping violent crime vs. writing traffic tickets.

My guess is most humans would not want to be a cop in the former county, or a career predator in the later county, due to increased chance of personal injury and/or death. Not very good material for an intellectual internet discussion, but hey, that just theory vs. practice.

In theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice, they're not.
Whose common sense? If I wanted to make a career as a predator, I wouldn't care about gun laws. Actually, the county would loose gun laws would suit me better because I wouldn't get arrested for carrying guns and I would find plenty of ammo shops. I also don't care if the victims are armed. I'm not planning on giving them a fair chance.

Nevertheless, the biggest factor is city size. I wouldn't "work" in a rural place, where everyone knows everyone and strangers stand out.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
Simple Minded

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

YMix wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:Common sense would dictate that the county with the disarmed population would have the understaffed/overworked/experienced police force, while the county with the voluntarily armed population would have the overstaffed/underworked/inexperienced police force. Stopping violent crime vs. writing traffic tickets.

My guess is most humans would not want to be a cop in the former county, or a career predator in the later county, due to increased chance of personal injury and/or death. Not very good material for an intellectual internet discussion, but hey, that just theory vs. practice.

In theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice, they're not.
Whose common sense? If I wanted to make a career as a predator, I wouldn't care about gun laws. Actually, the county would loose gun laws would suit me better because I wouldn't get arrested for carrying guns and I would find plenty of ammo shops. I also don't care if the victims are armed. I'm not planning on giving them a fair chance.

Nevertheless, the biggest factor is city size. I wouldn't "work" in a rural place, where everyone knows everyone and strangers stand out.
You are intellectualizing about an abstract "society." Fear is primal, and most importantly, personal. Fair chance has nothing to do with it. You are not going to study gun laws, but you might surf the net to see per capita local concealed carry permits or gun ownership.

Go back to the original question. Do you seek out prey that has a higher probability of defending itself or a higher probability of being defenseless? Watch a few nature shows and see how often the wolf pack chooses to go after a strong bull Elk rather than Gramma, the injured or a youngun. Or watch some documentaries where they actually interview convicted criminals.

You are right about choosing a city though, easier to get lost in the herd when you need to escape, few or none in the herd will be armed, few in the herd will stand up for a stranger, many in the herd will simply be relieved that they are getting attacked personally.

Think personal, not theoretical.
User avatar
YMix
Posts: 4631
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:53 am
Location: Department of Congruity - Report any outliers here

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by YMix »

Simple Minded wrote:You are intellectualizing about an abstract "society." Fear is primal, and most importantly, personal. Fair chance has nothing to do with it. You are not going to study gun laws, but you might surf the net to see per capita local concealed carry permits or gun ownership.

Go back to the original question. Do you seek out prey that has a higher probability of defending itself or a higher probability of being defenseless? Watch a few nature shows and see how often the wolf pack chooses to go after a strong bull Elk rather than Gramma, the injured or a youngun. Or watch some documentaries where they actually interview convicted criminals.

You are right about choosing a city though, easier to get lost in the herd when you need to escape, few or none in the herd will be armed, few in the herd will stand up for a stranger, many in the herd will simply be relieved that they are getting attacked personally.

Think personal, not theoretical.
Easier to get lost, easier to find lost victims, easier to do the prep work and study your victim.

If you're worried about armed victims, bring allies.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27242
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Typhoon »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Typhoon wrote:Informative statistics would be

1. firearm ownership; and

2. the homicide rate due to firearms

per capita for each county [or parish, if Louisiana] in the US.

Are such stats available?

This site does a good analysis of Chicago.
We've posted such statistics over and over, the story is always the same. 75% of murder comes from Democrat inner cities related to gang violence in areas where they have European style gun control. The story never changes.

x2vw2-DLhAo
You may have a point.

City Journal | FBI crime figures paint a very different picture of crime and policing than this weekend’s demonstrations suggest.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27242
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Typhoon »

All the "Weinstein" posts have been more to the "A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al." thread created by Miss Faucie Fishtits.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Mr. Perfect
Posts: 16973
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:35 am

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Allah allah ox in free. Time for common sense truck control?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... attan.html
Eight dead in terror attack after truck careens down a cycle path near Ground Zero before the male Uzbeki driver, 29, runs off and is shot by cops while waving paintball gun and yelling Allahu Akbar
Censorship isn't necessary
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11569
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Mr. Perfect wrote:.

Allah allah ox in free. Time for common sense truck control?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... attan.html

Eight dead in terror attack after truck careens down a cycle path near Ground Zero before the male Uzbeki driver, 29, runs off and is shot by cops while waving paintball gun and yelling Allahu Akbar
.

The terrorist was an Uzbek.

98% of foreign terrorists fighting in Syria are either Uzbek or Chechen or Algerian or Saudi or Moroccan .. McCain and Grahams "freedom fighters", America armed them to fight against a secular Assad (same story arming the terrorist Taliban to fight USSR lead to Al-Ghaida, Bin Laden, 9/11 etc)

But, NO , Iranian "grandparents" are the terrorist suspects and must be "vetted" coming to US to visit their grandchildren

You can not arm terrorists and be shocked when these kind of terrorist acts happen.

BTW, 5 Argentinian friends on school reunion among dead

.
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12562
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Doc »

Did the Latino Victory Fund warn about the NYT terror attack or post a video of Kevin Spacey chasing kids (0.06 in ), or both? Or are they saying that VA gov candidate Ed Gillespie Is a White supremacist, an Islamic terrorist, and a pedophile ? I'm confused :?

aIq51O3fGGc
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Simple Minded

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

Doc wrote:Did the Latino Victory Fund warn about the NYT terror attack or post a video of Kevin Spacey chasing kids (0.06 in ), or both? Or are they saying that VA gov candidate Ed Gillespie Is a White supremacist, an Islamic terrorist, and a pedophile ? I'm confused :?

aIq51O3fGGc
I think they are saying that Kevin Spacey is a typical Southern Redneck pedophile. How hard is that to understand?
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27242
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Typhoon »

Mr. Perfect wrote:Allah allah ox in free. Time for common sense truck control?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... attan.html
Eight dead in terror attack after truck careens down a cycle path near Ground Zero before the male Uzbeki driver, 29, runs off and is shot by cops while waving paintball gun and yelling Allahu Akbar
Condolences to the USA. And those overseas affected by this event.

Waving a paintball gun?

Fortunate for the West that these terrorists are so inept.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12562
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Doc »

Simple Minded wrote:
Doc wrote:Did the Latino Victory Fund warn about the NYT terror attack or post a video of Kevin Spacey chasing kids (0.06 in ), or both? Or are they saying that VA gov candidate Ed Gillespie Is a White supremacist, an Islamic terrorist, and a pedophile ? I'm confused :?

aIq51O3fGGc
I think they are saying that Kevin Spacey is a typical Southern Redneck pedophile. How hard is that to understand?
Around 1980 the fear was being spread that 50,000 children were going missing each year. What they did not say was that of that 50,000 missing children a total of 500 were abducted by strangers. Almost all were abducted by non custodial parents. While 500 children kidnapped by strangers is horrible The resulting fear placed in children of the bogeyman has been devastating to all children. Now the new bogeyman for children is apparently Republicans.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 12562
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Doc »

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017 ... story.html
Breeding antifa

By Richard North Patterson October 30, 2017

Earlier this month, students at the University of Oregon blocked its president from speaking. The reason? He supported free speech on campus — a position which, they asserted, engendered “fascism and white supremacy.” Thus do these historical illiterates combine ignorance with unintended irony — in some of history’s darkest chapters, fascists jailed, imprisoned, and killed others for protesting fascism.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Simple Minded

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

Doc wrote:http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017 ... story.html
Breeding antifa

By Richard North Patterson October 30, 2017

Earlier this month, students at the University of Oregon blocked its president from speaking. The reason? He supported free speech on campus — a position which, they asserted, engendered “fascism and white supremacy.” Thus do these historical illiterates combine ignorance with unintended irony — in some of history’s darkest chapters, fascists jailed, imprisoned, and killed others for protesting fascism.
Cosmic justice, activists eating their mentors! Again, a heartfelt thanks to both god and Darwin!!

"Sadly, colleges themselves have planted the seeds of such intolerance. In recent years, campuses have sheltered students from subjectively offensive speech or reading materials. Some create “safe spaces” for homogenous beliefs; others issue “trigger warnings” about books purported to evoke sexism or bigotry. Instead of teaching students to debate differences and confront the objectionable, they offer cocoons sheltering them from discomfort or even thought.
Simple Minded

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

in a related story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 0838e89e33


"As one of her party’s most prominent black strategists, Brazile also recounts fiery disagreements with Clinton’s staffers — including a conference call in which she told three senior campaign officials, Charlie Baker, Marlon Marshall and Dennis Cheng, that she was being treated like a slave.

“I’m not Patsey the slave,” Brazile recalls telling them, a reference to the character played by Lupita Nyong’o in the film, “12 Years a Slave.” “Y’all keep whipping me and whipping me and you never give me any money or any way to do my damn job. I am not going to be your whipping girl!”

Words are weapons. Always state your case in the lingo of your intended audience.
User avatar
NapLajoieonSteroids
Posts: 8390
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Another Republican Senator has been physically attacked, this time, at his home.

Luckily, it was sans weapons but Senator Rand Paul was tackled from behind while mowing his lawn by a disgruntled neighbor. He ended up with some minor injuries to his face and something with his ribs, making it harder to breathe [broken rib? none of the stories I've read says its actually broken.]
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11569
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Devin Kelley.JPG
Devin Kelley.JPG (45.57 KiB) Viewed 539 times


Interesting .. 26 people killed, and nobody has posted anything here

.
Mr. Perfect
Posts: 16973
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:35 am

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Mr. Perfect »

xrsl7XzT5II
Censorship isn't necessary
User avatar
NapLajoieonSteroids
Posts: 8390
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

What is there to say?

By what is known right now, the man had a violent history, dishonorably discharged from the military and excluded from owning weapons which he still got his hands on.

He was stopped or distracted by a law-abiding citizen who was armed.

I've heard two motives--- who knows how true they are--- his wife and kid were in that church, he took the narcissistic route of these murder-suicide by taking everyone with him.

The other being he was some sort of nu-atheist, antifa type (per some claims about his facebook)

7RmD3hGobP0

who have become increasingly comfortable in using violence against their perceived enemies. [caveat: did not watch the video posted, just did a quick search for it as people are already compiling what they can. So I don't know what is being said in the video, it's just meant as an example. ]

If either one, or both of these, are the case; it will be out of the news by tomorrow.
Simple Minded

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:What is there to say?

By what is known right now, the man had a violent history, dishonorably discharged from the military and excluded from owning weapons which he still got his hands on.

He was stopped or distracted by a law-abiding citizen who was armed.
Well said. Free will, and personal responsibility.

Amazing the length the meme makers and power brokers will go to, to avoid that discussion.
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27242
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Typhoon »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Devin Kelley.JPG
Interesting .. 26 people killed, and nobody has posted anything here

.
What is there to say, aside from condolences to the survivors?
Many Americans want unrestricted access to AR-15s, similar semi-automatic rifles, and other firearms that have nothing to do with hunting.
We've been repeatedly educated that this is a constitutional right.

Every society makes choices and then has to deal with the consequences.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Parodite
Posts: 5641
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Parodite »

Typhoon wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Devin Kelley.JPG
Interesting .. 26 people killed, and nobody has posted anything here

.
What is there to say, aside from condolences to the survivors?
Many Americans want unrestricted access to AR-15s, similar semi-automatic rifles, and other firearms that have nothing to do with hunting.
We've been repeatedly educated that this is a constitutional right.

Every society makes choices and then has to deal with the consequences.
From what I understand AR-15s are not available to just any Joe but I could be wrong. Only ex-military with "honorable discharge" are allowed to have them. That itself may be not a wise thing, but at least you have to be an honorable ex-military which suggests you know how to handle such a thing and only use it in honorable fashion, i.e. most likely never ever - expect maybe for hunting... I don't know. (Don't understand what the fun of hunting is when the animal has zero chance to escape/win) But the craziness kicks when when it turns out that Kelley did not have an honorable discharge, on the contrary. How did he get into the possesion of an AR-15 nevertheless? Well, by simply filling in a form where he lied declaring himself an honorable ex-military. Maybe there is an instinct in US culture that personal responsibility and free will trump social control and imposing law. It is something between the individual and God to do evil or good. Thusly speaks the fear: take that away and you end up with socialism or even communism.
Deep down I'm very superficial
Simple Minded

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

Typhoon wrote:
What is there to say, aside from condolences to the survivors?
Many Americans want unrestricted access to AR-15s, similar semi-automatic rifles, and other firearms that have nothing to do with hunting.
We've been repeatedly educated that this is a constitutional right.

Every society makes choices and then has to deal with the consequences.
Very well said.

The eternal discussion lies in the immeasurable gulf between "I want......" and "they should....."

And in the similar gulf between "society should......" and "why punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty."

Voting with one's feet is always more immediate and effective than the voting booth.
Mr. Perfect
Posts: 16973
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:35 am

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Parodite wrote: From what I understand AR-15s are not available to just any Joe but I could be wrong. Only ex-military with "honorable discharge" are allowed to have them. That itself may be not a wise thing, but at least you have to be an honorable ex-military which suggests you know how to handle such a thing and only use it in honorable fashion, i.e. most likely never ever - expect maybe for hunting... I don't know. (Don't understand what the fun of hunting is when the animal has zero chance to escape/win) But the craziness kicks when when it turns out that Kelley did not have an honorable discharge, on the contrary. How did he get into the possesion of an AR-15 nevertheless? Well, by simply filling in a form where he lied declaring himself an honorable ex-military. Maybe there is an instinct in US culture that personal responsibility and free will trump social control and imposing law. It is something between the individual and God to do evil or good. Thusly speaks the fear: take that away and you end up with socialism or even communism.
In the US the Federal Government does not restrict access to AR 15s or any other semi automatic rifle (there are numerous alternatives but the AR 15 is far and away the most popular).

However at the state and local level we have a lot of European style gun control including AR 15 bans. But in most states they are legal to own with minimal paperwork.

The result is AR 15s are used in about 1% of crime. The most popular rifle is used in about 1% of crime.

So leftists in the media want to ban 1% of guns used in crime, ignore the other 99%. Beam me up Scotty.

Bill Clinton had an AR15 ban for almost 8 years and it had no effect on the crime rate one way or the other, even after it expired.

In the US murder has been dropping for 30 years while gun rights and ownership have been on the increase.

Image
Censorship isn't necessary
Mr. Perfect
Posts: 16973
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:35 am

Re: Extremism in the USA

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Narrative buster, atheist left wing bad guy Church shooter tagged by armed citizen with an AR-15. MSM running for the hills.

B4HEchh0XD8
Censorship isn't necessary
Post Reply