A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

noddy wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:My Flagging Sense of Propriety
This blog is about the notion that loss of self-control by males regarding the pawing of young girls is a breach of “propriety.”...

...Most readers of this website are not looking for “politeness” but for an empirical, historical look at current controversies. As I look over my long development, I have concluded that emulation of my father the doctor is the key factor, for I went into science teaching as a substitute for a career in medicine. As a science major at the Cornell University State College of Agriculture in the mid-1950s, I had to take a semester of practice teaching to get my degree. It is that story of my alleged impropriety in the Fall of 1958 at Ithaca High School that is the focus of this posting.I was anything but a feminist in that conservative decade, but I did take myself seriously as a prospective chemistry teacher (a deviant choice for a young female, I was to learn).

My supervisor was Mr. Ming, who would take a brown bag lunch with other male science faculty. In my 1950s naiveté, I thought that they would be discussing matters of scientific relevance during their lunch break, so zealous Clare improperly showed up at their confab. Mr. Ming punished me with a bad grade: a“65” because I had an inadequate “sense of propriety,” a grade that my (male) Cornell professor changed to a “90.”

I am resuscitating this memory to make a larger point than some conservative or “moderate” commentators snowed by an “avalanche” of belated confessions: that women of my generation were politely and punitively excluded from the “male” sphere, and that this situation was of more interest to me at that time in the mid-to-late 1950s than various clumsy male gropings of adolescent-looking females seem to be today (https://clarespark.com/2017/10/27/moral ... nd-lolita/).

Or, if we dig deeper, is the entire Roy Moore flap better seen as yet another assault on Southern and Western “cowboys” by neo-Progressive liberals?
their is something in that - tho im not sure about the final point on the attack on macho's as most of the current targets are as far removed from that as you can get.

weinstein, spacey et all are almost the opposit - they are big on passive aggresive and two face, which is wimmuns magic to the macho

the greater point about the wishy washy line between men and women being actually equal versus women being pushed around by men is an interesting fight within feminism right now - ditto the changes in “sense of propriety” as per societies assumed levels of seedyness

this truly is the sheltered sexless generation.
I see your point and agree with you that it is a bit of a stretch; though I don't think that blog post had Harvey Weinstein and co. in mind. I just thought it would be of interest to share. That topic is more in line with:

Harvey Weinstein As Carnal Jew and

The Moral Chaos of Womanhood: The Harvey Weinstein Scandal and Lolita

I'm going to be a bit flippant and say that Ms.Spark's thesis is that Harvey Weinstein is a victim of latent anti-semitism and Pope Leo's Rerum Novarum. Because anti-semitism lurks behind everything, according to Ms.Spark.

Maybe that is too uncharitable but it is a running theme throughout her blog, almost to the point of comedy. That she is not necessarily wrong, if you follow the thread of her thinking, prevents that. I just have a very hard time seeing Mr.Weinstein (and Roman Polanski) as victims...and do see her own prejudice for liberal jews because they are Jewish there in the rationalization.

That being said, I like her blog and she can be informative, persuasive and provides a very spirited defense of bourgeoisie liberalism- something that's supposed to be a such a embarrassment that it oughtn't be addressed, as if its beyond defense or argument. In that sense (among others), I like her fanaticism and persistence.

...it's like people never heard of: give the devil his due :)
Simple Minded

Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote: maybe you need a lie down.


its crazy to dismiss all the actual perverts raping children just because of gold diggers, or the swedish.

their is a huge dffference between media hysteria and law.
Sounds like PTSD to me. Maybe, the morning after, sober, in the bright sunlight, with the burka off..... :o :shock:
i dont think so.

just that some folks take the crap in the sensationalist media way too seriously.

in most countries, since the dawn of time, the public media has been the highly filtered official viewpoint but now its the most clickbaity and crazy viewpoints.
very well said. predators and sickos have always existed, but now with ubiquitous info tech every slight, real or imagined, becomes one's personal tale of surviving insurmountable oppression and abuse.

holier than thou proselytizing, combined with victimology is as appealing as doomer porn. the more sensitive we become, the more we can be offended. it is almost its own religion, since it contains both original sin and salvation. those who are not continually offended simply aren't as pure as those who are.

I doubt HP takes the MSM very seriously, I think for him it is merely recreation.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Simple Minded wrote:.

I doubt HP takes the MSM very seriously, I think for him it is merely recreation.

.

:lol: :lol: .. true


.
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Doc
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Doc »

Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote: this is gibberish and maybe you need a lie down.


its repulsive to dismiss all the actual perverts raping children just because of gold diggers, or the swedish.

their is a huge dffference between media hysteria and law.
Sounds like PTSD to me. Maybe, the morning after, sober, in the bright sunlight, with the burka off..... :o :shock:
Meanwhile it turns out Al Franken spent the Thanksgiving holiday feeling bad about what he did. Poor poor little guy.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Simple Minded

Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Simple Minded »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:.

I doubt HP takes the MSM very seriously, I think for him it is merely recreation.

.

:lol: :lol: .. true


.
takes one to know one..... ;)
Simple Minded

Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Simple Minded »

Doc wrote:
Simple Minded wrote:
noddy wrote: this is gibberish and maybe you need a lie down.


its repulsive to dismiss all the actual perverts raping children just because of gold diggers, or the swedish.

their is a huge dffference between media hysteria and law.
Sounds like PTSD to me. Maybe, the morning after, sober, in the bright sunlight, with the burka off..... :o :shock:
Meanwhile it turns out Al Franken spent the Thanksgiving holiday feeling bad about what he did. Poor poor little guy.
If Al gets in front of the camera, and gives a tearful testimony about how he spent several days soul searching and then found Jesus..... all will be forgiven. Start of his new career...... sinner turned evangelist!
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

This is about the misuse of power in the workplace, and about the weaponization of public embarrassment.

Sorting those two dynamics seems to be a good starting place.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Doc »

Bernie Sanders polls among Dem insiders as top pick for Democrats for 2020

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/36 ... contenders
Image
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

C'mon Doc! Just for once get your mind out of the voting booth and back in the gutter! Either that or remind us about Bush and his fleet of on-call gay interns.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Doc »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:C'mon Doc! Just for once get your mind out of the voting booth and back in the gutter! Either that or remind us about Bush and his fleet of on-call gay interns.
All part of the swamp. But that again was actually congress not Bush.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


support for
'accused child molester'


Two Republican senators attack ‘political’ move after president warns against allowing ‘WEAK’ Democratic Senate candidate Doug Jones to win in Alabama

:lol:


.
Simple Minded

The swamp deepens

Post by Simple Minded »

looks like the journey from civil rights icon to abuser of women is a short one.

moral authority can be rather short lived.

https://twitter.com/JoeFreedomLove/stat ... 0775458817

ya gotta love the game "yeah, I'm a scumbag, but if you other scumbags try to hold me responsible, I'll expose all of you!"

assuming of course, it's real.....
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Bottom line, Insurance companies must not offer insurance for "illegal" activity

One should not be able to insure against "driving drunk", "murdering somebody", "raping somebody" , "sexualually harassing"

Seems , Weinstein had included an "insurance clause" in his contract for "sexual" misbehaviour he now confronting.

Now, looks like, insurance companies have realized not only they will pay the bills, but also Insurance companies could be "liable" for giving comfort, protection, for illegal activity.

Insurance was meant for "legal activity", like Oil spill or car accident not for sexual abuse

.
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


Boss Grab Your Breasts ?
That’s Not (Legally) Harassment


.
In a case that went to federal court in the early 1990s, a woman presented evidence that her supervisor tried to kiss her on multiple occasions, placed “I love you” signs on her desk, called her a dumb blonde, put his hands on her shoulders and asked her out on dates. The trial court judge dismissed her suit, declaring that this conduct did not meet the threshold for sexual harassment, and the appeals court affirmed the dismissal.

Since then, courts have cited this case and others like it hundreds of times in rejecting sexual harassment claims. Such conduct, these courts have declared, is not serious enough to be harassment.
.

Hmmmm ..

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noddy
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by noddy »

the media and much of the commentary gets quite confused about the various levels of repercussion that the various levels of offence dictate.

being a bit crude or tactless could well lose you your job however you shouldnt be in trouble with the law for it.

threatning people with loss of employment or physical violence and raping them is a completely different level of offence.

in between you have all the different versions of harassment, the areas of grey between these extremes and its going to be most interesting to see how the modern world redraws that line.

Its going to be somewhat ironic if the Nth wave femminists use the women are weak and easily emotionally disturbed line of attack..
Last edited by noddy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Criminalizing Courtship

Writing over Twitter on Wednesday that he feels “sad” about Lauer’s termination, Rivera called the host a “great guy” who was “empathetic [with] guests” and “a real gentleman.”

“News is a flirty business,” he continued, later adding: “How do we explain so many newsroom courtships that have led to happy marriages?”

“It seems like [the] current epidemic of #SexualHarassmentAllegations may be criminalizing courtship [and] conflating it [with] predation,” he wrote.

Will backfire .. big shots will demand no female coworker next to them, insurance companies will back the demand .. woman will be denied those Jobs.

.
noddy
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by noddy »

you can lose your job for wearing the wrong shoes.
ultracrepidarian
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Parodite »

Somebody who is, or feels violated by somebody else has all opportunity to report it to the police and have a lawyer who helps him/her make the case in a court of law. Here in the West, we have it all pretty well organized to make that possible. People, men or women, who decide not to use these possibilities for justice and thereby also exposing others to the behavior of the culprit only have themselves to blame, and can even be called culpable for the harm done by the violator to others after that. It seems to me that what has now become more of a witch hunt of men by women is also a way to cover up their own weakness and guilt in these stories. Not reporting a crime is also a crime and just stupid if you are the victim yourself.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


:lol: :lol:
The Full List


.

- “He was like an octopus … His hands were everywhere.”

- "I referred to this as a ‘rape’, but I do not want my words to be interpreted in a literal or criminal sense."

- “He pushed me up against the wall, and had his hands all over me and tried to get up my dress again.”

- "He did touch my vagina through my underwear."

- “[Trump] stuck his head right underneath their skirts.”

- “He took my hand, and grabbed me, and went for the lips.”

- “He kissed me directly on the lips."

- "Then his hand touched the right side of my breast. I was in shock."

- “The time that he walked through the dressing rooms was really shocking. We were all naked.”

....

- “He probably doesn’t want me telling the story about that time he continually grabbed my ass and invited me to his hotel room.”

.

:lol:

.
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

noddy wrote:the media and much of the commentary gets quite confused about the various levels of repercussion that the various levels of offence dictate.

being a bit crude or tactless could well lose you your job however you shouldnt be in trouble with the law for it.

threatning people with loss of employment or physical violence and raping them is a completely different level of offence.

in between you have all the different versions of harassment, the areas of grey between these extremes and its going to be most interesting to see how the modern world redraws that line.

Its going to be somewhat ironic if the Nth wave femminists use the women are weak and easily emotionally disturbed line of attack..
Of course they're gonna use that line- being ironic means never having to say sorry. :)
Last edited by NapLajoieonSteroids on Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Simple Minded

Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Simple Minded »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
noddy wrote:
Its going to be somewhat ironic if the Nth wave femminists use the women are weak and easily emotionally disturbed line of attack..
Of course they're gonna use that line- being ironic never means having to say sorry. :)
Way tooooo late. Several years ago Dennis Miller noted that the path to equality for women is to sincerely profess helplessness.

One caller asked what should you do if you are out on a date, and your date gets offended if you hold the door for her? The Sandra Fluke kerfluffal (21C slang at its finest) was big at the time.

Miller replied "You should say, I'm sorry if I offended you by holding the door for you, but would you at least let me pick up the cost of your birth control?"
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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Simple Minded wrote:
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
noddy wrote:
Its going to be somewhat ironic if the Nth wave femminists use the women are weak and easily emotionally disturbed line of attack..
Of course they're gonna use that line- being ironic never means having to say sorry. :)
Way tooooo late. Several years ago Dennis Miller noted that the path to equality for women is to sincerely profess helplessness.

One caller asked what should you do if you are out on a date, and your date gets offended if you hold the door for her? The Sandra Fluke kerfluffal (21C slang at its finest) was big at the time.

Miller replied "You should say, I'm sorry if I offended you by holding the door for you, but would you at least let me pick up the cost of your birth control?"
Once dated this girl who grew increasingly uncomfortable with the fact that I was paying when taking her out. She became obsessive about it, down to the point where every penny had to be accounted for. Of course, it never stopped her from one day getting the bright idea to show for a date all doe-eyed asking me to pay her rent.

At which point I said, "You speak to me as if you'll be 23 forever." She was so offended she stamped off. :lol:
Simple Minded

Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Simple Minded »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Once dated this girl who grew increasingly uncomfortable with the fact that I was paying when taking her out. She became obsessive about it, down to the point where every penny had to be accounted for. Of course, it never stopped her from one day getting the bright idea to show for a date all doe-eyed asking me to pay her rent.

At which point I said, "You speak to me as if you'll be 23 forever." She was so offended she stamped off. :lol:
:lol:

that was then, this is now.

Now: "He sexually assaulted me!"

How long before the defense to the accusation of "He tried to touch my breasts!" becomes "She tried to pick my pockets!"
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Typhoon »

The accusations keep on coming. Long lost track.

On the one hand, men who abuse their positions of power and/or authority to sexually assault women should be held to account.

On the other hand, rape and a pat on the behind are clearly different on the assault scale as should be the consequences.

As the new Puritanism sweeps across N Am, if I was living there I'd be careful about flirting in the office and esp office romance.
Should either go bad, the consequences of a revenge/punishment accusation in the current cultural climate would be severe.
A cynic might say that a man's best friend today no longer his dog but his the mobile phone.

Have to respect confident women who were capable of dealing with the situation on the spot.
One famous movie executive, who shall remain nameless, exposed himself to me in his office.
"Mr X," I said,
"I thought you were a producer, not an exhibitor."

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Zack Morris
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Re: A boil that needs lancing . . . Weinstein et al.

Post by Zack Morris »

Yes, a very clear difference between rape and a pat on the butt: one should result in prison time and the other in being fired. And that's what's happening. This is a generational thing. It's baby boomers and older Gen Xers getting their comeuppance.

It's totally inappropriate for people in positions of power to "flirt" with subordinates in the office. Plenty of ways to get some elsewhere. No need to bring it into the office.
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