France

Re: France

Postby Alexis » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:41 am

noddy wrote:Image


:lol:

It goes in the same direction than John Oliver:



In general, I'm very tolerant of crude political propaganda... provided it's put in a funny way. :)



Now you also have the less funny, like Der Spiegel's last piece in their English-language version:

It sounds like a political parody -- or like a badly overwritten European take on "West Wing." A right-wing populist party has spent months at the top of the polls, neck-and-neck with the former rising star of an entrenched party who decided to bolt and found his own political movement. Right on their heels is the far-left candidate who is experiencing a late surge and outpolling the centrist establishment. Meanwhile, the incumbent, having governed his way to historically low public opinion ratings, has decided not to run for re-election and his party is dead in the water. And the center-right candidate, who looked strong out of the gate, has become embroiled in multiple embarrassing affairs involving greed, his wife and more greed. But he has remained in the race anyway and still has a shot.

It is, of course, a completely unrealistic scenario, but it is the thrilling truth in France in April 2017. The main players are Marine Le Pen, Emmanuel Macron, Jean-Luc Mélenchon, François Hollande and François Fillon -- and together, they are illustrating a complete breakdown of established politics in France.

(...)

Most of the candidates who have felt the need to run for president this year aren't even qualified to lead a country, let alone a nuclear power or Europe's second-largest economy. If it is true that a nation only gets the political leaders it deserves, then things are not well in France.


A lot of facts, generally accurate - but then a lot of propaganda, and outrage.



You also have the very intellectual, very precise and thoughtful - also, going in another direction - like AmConMag's Scott McConnell and The Battle for France

No one should be fooled into thinking that this intellectual ferment in France, centered on the protection of the country’s traditional culture, is a phenomenon peculiar to this particular European nation. Just as we see echoes of Le Pen’s National Front in the politics of other Western countries, including the United States, we are likely to see a growing intellectual focus on such political controversies. A powerful new debate has opened up in the nations of the West, and writers, thinkers, essayists, and polemicists of various stripes and viewpoints will be pulled into it. But France is the country to watch because it is the vanguard.
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Re: France

Postby Alexis » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:58 am

Heracleum Persicum wrote:Alexis , my Condolence for the terrorist attack in Paris Champs-Élysées

Will this help Le Pen ?


Thanks, HP. :)

I suspect it will.

One thing is sure, it increases uncertainty before Sunday's first round, which was already large, 4 candidates being very close to qualification for the runoff. Opinion polls I suspect can't be organized within the 18 hours that remain before them being legally prohibited (day before the election) therefore the impact of this attack on the vote can't be evaluated before voting day.

Yesterday evening, the 11 candidates were invited in turn on TV to explain their project in 15 minutes. Le Pen's turn was before the attack, and she had insisted heavily on her idea that far too little was done to counter Jihadist attacks, listing her proposals to correct that.

Then this, and it comes out:
- that the attacker had already a story of armed attacks against policemen, for which he was sentenced to 20 years prison... in 2003
- that the attacker had been signaled recently by intelligence services as somebody who was planning armed attack against policemen, heard by justice... which decided not to do anything, for lack of proof
:shock: :twisted: !!!

My gut feeling: Macron the bankers' strawman, present favorite to win the election, is toast. Second round will be between Le Pen and Fillon.

Time (a little of it) will tell...
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Re: France

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:12 am

Alexis wrote:.

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

Alexis , my Condolence for the terrorist attack in Paris Champs-Élysées

Will this help Le Pen ?

.


Thanks, HP. :)

I suspect it will.

.





Alexis , a bit crazy to say this .. but .. remember just week before US election suddenly FBI director comes out with something against Hillary .. and .. Hillary was done

Now, could be similar game played .. a week before first go on French election, suddenly a "professional" terrorist attack on beloved Champs-Élysées .. and .. Bingo, Le Pen comes out of the hat.


Well, who would want Le Pan to win ? ?



170324105546-01-le-pen-putin-meet-0324-full-169.jpg
170324105546-01-le-pen-putin-meet-0324-full-169.jpg (162.22 KiB) Viewed 124 times



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Re: France

Postby NapLajoieonSteroids » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:37 am

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Well, who would want Le Pan to win ? ?


brigitte bardot and heterosexual men of a certain age? :D
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A conspiracy?

Postby Alexis » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:03 am

Heracleum Persicum wrote:Alexis , a bit crazy to say this .. but .. remember just week before US election suddenly FBI director comes out with something against Hillary .. and .. Hillary was done

Now, could be similar game played .. a week before first go on French election, suddenly a "professional" terrorist attack on beloved Champs-Élysées .. and .. Bingo, Le Pen comes out of the hat.


Well, who would want Le Pan to win ? ?


Generally, what is difficult with conspiracy theories is that on the one hand manipulations are sure to exist – they are to be found in the historical record, why would they have stopped now? – and on the other hand organizing a manipulation is difficult and risky.

The question becomes then one of motive, and one of practicality.

Practicality for the scenario you mention is a real problem. The perpetrator was a criminal who already assaulted policemen with rifles fifteen years ago and served time in prison. There is scant chance he was a foreign operative already back in that time, wouldn’t you agree? Then he could have been recruited yes… but in exchange of what exactly? His was a suicide attack, he had close to zero chance of escaping alive, and he knew it. Which contemporary ideology promises afterlife rewards for its fighters, if not Jihadism? All of that is not very much FSB-like…

Then the motive is also not that clear… because quite a lot of forces and “services” may be tasked with favoring a Frexit, not only the FSB :mrgreen: ! Has not some of the US president’ men rejoiced in advance at a future “fall of the EU”? Is it not Britain’s obvious interest that the EU doesn’t stand as it is?

If this was a manipulation… CIA and MI6 would make just as good culprits as FSB. :)

My personal opinion is much simpler. Also, when one really thinks about it, much more unsettling.

All those who see conspiracies galore are telling themselves a reassuring lie, because if some dark forces were indeed controlling events… there would at least be somebody in control. Truth is that nobody is in control. Nobody at all. Chaos leads humans.

Or maybe divine Providence?
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Re: France

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:23 pm

.

support for Le Pen surges in rural France


“A whole French way of life is under threat,” he said, looking at an old photograph of his father working the land with a horse-drawn plough. “I work 70 hours a week and I can’t make a profit from my animals. It’s misery. I’ll be in debt until I die. And if we replace the French with immigrants, this country’s whole identity will change. We’ve got to protect the French.”



Hmmm .. looks like Madame La Presidente Le Pan as good as money in the bank

She would lift sanction on Russia .. good for French Agri export.

Impressive is, Euro even up, and holding

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Last edited by Heracleum Persicum on Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A conspiracy?

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:24 pm

Alexis wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:Alexis , a bit crazy to say this .. but .. remember just week before US election suddenly FBI director comes out with something against Hillary .. and .. Hillary was done

Now, could be similar game played .. a week before first go on French election, suddenly a "professional" terrorist attack on beloved Champs-Élysées .. and .. Bingo, Le Pen comes out of the hat.


Well, who would want Le Pan to win ? ?

.


The question becomes then one of motive, and one of practicality..

.



Trump wants Le Pen to win


PARIS — President Trump inserted himself into the tumult of French politics on Friday, declaring that the fatal shooting of a police officer in central Paris would have “a big effect” when voters go to the polls on Sunday to choose among 11 presidential candidates.

Mr. Trump did not mention any candidates by name. But his statement on Twitter — “The people of France will not take much more of this. Will have a big effect on presidential election!” — came at the tail end of a tight, fragmented race, with at least four contenders running neck and neck.

One of them, Marine Le Pen, the far-right candidate, has issued grim warnings that a declining France is losing its identity, echoing Mr. Trump’s themes during the American presidential race last year. It was not clear, however, that Mr. Trump’s statement would help her among undecided voters.




Putin too wants Le Pen to win

Am sure, Brits want Le Pen to Win too (to stick it to Germans, Merkel).

CIA & MI6 just need to look the other way

Alexis, you are set up

This whole thing fishy, smells rotten

The Battle for France


Hmmmm


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Re: A conspiracy?

Postby Alexis » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:29 am

Heracleum Persicum wrote:Putin too wants Le Pen to win

Am sure, Brits want Le Pen to Win too (to stick it to Germans, Merkel).

CIA & MI6 just need to look the other way

Alexis, you are set up


As you surely understand, I'm not overly interested by what Putin, Trump, May nor the Dalai-Lama are thinking about our election :) My interest is what would be the best option for my country, like anybody would think in my position.

Thursday's terrorist attack did not change my vote, so even if it was a conspiracy, well it's a failure as far as I'm concerned. ;)


In other news, David P. Goldman gave his opinion too. Extracts:

the candidate of the governing Socialist Party, Benoit Hamon, who shows less than 8% support in the latest polls. When the ruling party's candidate polls in single digits, something nasty is at work.
(...)
A Le Pen victory would mean the end of Europe's institutions as we know them.
(...)
If I were French I would at least consider voting for Le Pen; as an American, I hope she loses as a matter of pure American strategic interest. The best outcome from an American standpoint would be the victory of the conservative Catholic free-marketeer Francois Fillon.
(...)
Many American conservatives are cheering for Le Pen. (...) But if Le Pen is elected, I guarantee that her American admirers are not going to like the outcome.
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Re: France

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:36 am

.

“For 10 years, under the governments of left and right,
everything has been done to make us losers,”
she said,
“There must be a president who acts and who protects.”




Seems, alternative could be, François Fillon


Some analysts predicted that the principal electoral beneficiary could be the embattled mainstream center-right candidate François Fillon, who produced a book last fall called “Defeating Islamic Totalitarianism,” and who also uses harsh rhetoric to depict the antiterror fight as a war of civilizations.

Mr. Fillon, a former prime minister, and once the presidential front-runner, had languished in polls after becoming entangled in a nepotism scandal that led to embezzlement charges against him. But he has been gaining ground in recent weeks, and the attack might provide a final push.

“You can imagine a movement toward one who has held power,” said Dominique Reynié, an expert on the far right who teaches at Sciences Po. “He’s written on terrorism. He’s been prime minister.”

“For Marine Le Pen, it won’t have an effect,” Mr. Reynié said. “She’s already at the level she’s reached, partly because of terrorism.”

.



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Re: France

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:36 pm

.

identity crisis:
‘ People just don’t know what to think any more ’



France is a republican quasi-monarchy. Its institutions are centred on the president.

But what is at stake in this vote isn’t just the choice of a personality, nor only an economic or political programme.

The very essence of France’s democracy hangs in the balance, as well as the survival of the 60-year-old European project.

Much of what is at work resembles the trends that produced Brexit in Britain and Trump in the US – not least the disgruntlement of those who feel they have lost out to globalisation.

But there are also specific, distinct elements of a collective French identity crisis.



Alexis , Guardian sayin you don't know who you are .. and .. what you want

Looks to me, right @ the money

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Re: France

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:03 pm

.

Charles de Gaulle’s Fifth Republic delivered political stability for France.
That appears to be unraveling.



De Gaulle — part president, part monarch — typically sought to rule by transcending the fray of partisan mudslinging, a model that most of his successors sought to emulate in the decades that followed. But this has changed in recent years, analysts say.

“Recent presidents have been too partisan, and too interventionist — especially Sarkozy and Hollande,” said Sudhir Hazareesingh, the author of a critically acclaimed book on De Gaulle and a professor of French politics at Oxford University. “De Gaulle believed a president should preside, and governance should be left to the government.”




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Re: France

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:39 pm

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

Charles de Gaulle’s Fifth Republic delivered political stability for France.
That appears to be unraveling.



De Gaulle — part president, part monarch — typically sought to rule by transcending the fray of partisan mudslinging, a model that most of his successors sought to emulate in the decades that followed. But this has changed in recent years, analysts say.

“Recent presidents have been too partisan, and too interventionist — especially Sarkozy and Hollande,” said Sudhir Hazareesingh, the author of a critically acclaimed book on De Gaulle and a professor of French politics at Oxford University. “De Gaulle believed a president should preside, and governance should be left to the government.”




.

Problem your side refuses to see, is that your globalists completely failed the people. All over the West, horrible economic conditions while terrorism of the Muslim variety increases steadily and regular folks are vilified and attacked daily by Media outlets. What did you guys expect to happen.
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Re: France

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:41 pm

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

identity crisis:
‘ People just don’t know what to think any more ’



France is a republican quasi-monarchy. Its institutions are centred on the president.

But what is at stake in this vote isn’t just the choice of a personality, nor only an economic or political programme.

The very essence of France’s democracy hangs in the balance, as well as the survival of the 60-year-old European project.

Much of what is at work resembles the trends that produced Brexit in Britain and Trump in the US – not least the disgruntlement of those who feel they have lost out to globalisation.

But there are also specific, distinct elements of a collective French identity crisis.



Alexis , Guardian sayin you don't know who you are .. and .. what you want

Looks to me, right @ the money

.

The government has failed the people, and the ideas of the establishment have failed the people. It's very easy to know what to think. Burn them all.
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Re: France

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:40 pm

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

identity crisis:
‘ People just don’t know what to think any more ’



France is a republican quasi-monarchy. Its institutions are centred on the president.

But what is at stake in this vote isn’t just the choice of a personality, nor only an economic or political programme.

The very essence of France’s democracy hangs in the balance, as well as the survival of the 60-year-old European project.

Much of what is at work resembles the trends that produced Brexit in Britain and Trump in the US – not least the disgruntlement of those who feel they have lost out to globalisation.

But there are also specific, distinct elements of a collective French identity crisis.



Alexis , Guardian sayin you don't know who you are .. and .. what you want

Looks to me, right @ the money

.



The government has failed the people, and the ideas of the establishment have failed the people. It's very easy to know what to think.

Burn them all.

.




True, the "Elite" failed Joe.

Trump doin the burning .. wiping out our beloved America, wild fire .. promising Joe "New Growth".

That can take a long long time.

And

MP

World not standing still waiting for you to reboot

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Re: France

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:44 pm

The whole world is rebooting to align with Trump. May, Brexit, Le Pen, Putin, Xi, is the new world order. A new era of international harmony peace and prosperity.
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Re: France

Postby Typhoon » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:41 pm

Mr. Perfect wrote:The whole world is rebooting to align with Trump. May, Brexit, Le Pen, Putin, Xi, is the new world order. A new era of international harmony peace and prosperity.


A premature extrapolation.
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Re: France

Postby Typhoon » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:43 pm

Aujourd'hui, la France vote.

Bonne chance.
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Re: A conspiracy?

Postby Typhoon » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:48 pm

Alexis wrote: . . .

All those who see conspiracies galore are telling themselves a reassuring lie, because if some dark forces were indeed controlling events… there would at least be somebody in control. Truth is that nobody is in control. Nobody at all. Chaos leads humans.

. . .


Precisely.
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Re: France

Postby Parodite » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:30 pm

Outside, away from the noise, grows a flower.
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Re: France

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:04 pm





For those speakin Deutsch or French


How you doin, Parodite :lol:


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Re: France

Postby Heracleum Persicum » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:14 pm

.


Emmanuel Macron, Le Pen elected 1st round.


OK , folks, I want this put on the record here, right now


Azari predicts French president will be "Emmanuel Macron".

1000% sure

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Re: France

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:59 pm

I would give her 20% chance. Where are all the feminist supporters I wonder.
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Re: France

Postby Mr. Perfect » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:13 pm

When is the run off? Two weeks?
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Re: France

Postby Parodite » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:16 pm

Heracleum Persicum wrote:


For those speakin Deutsch or French


How you doin, Parodite :lol:


Hey Azari, whats up! :D

Ah ze Germans! Das ist immer der gleiche Schmutz und Schlamm graben .. verdammt noch mal! Well, that Meister Schmerz in your youtube video wonders why western Europeans killed so many more people than les musulmans were able to. Simple answer: we are much better at anything and everything than people still living under the shadow of an ancient delusional psychotic religious cult. Ze Germans killed better and faster and now zey build Mercedes und Audi! Meister Schmerz just not wants it to be true and desperately dirts himself with Scheisse nonsense. Won't help. Germany Weltmeister Krieg, Genocide und Ingenieurwesen. Muslims losers of history. Mullahs darkening Persian Light. Persians weak..no backbone otherwise, like Germans, blitzkrieg and throw out Mullahs. Easy. Not happening. Too soft culture. Swamp kills Persians, no will power. ;)
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Re: France

Postby Parodite » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:21 pm

Macron is a pro-EU corporatist with a banking background. A wet dream for Juncker. He supposedly will be the next Presidaaant and the last of France in the EU.
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