Russia

[Parodite]

If you can find comfort in the plaintive cry of "But we meant well", good for you. It doesn't work for me. I try to focus on acts, not words.

He clearly is the violator in the Ukraine case..

I disagree.

I don't see what the US/NATO/West has done wrong there.

- prepared and precipitated a coup d'etat;
- replaced a bunch of oligarchs with another bunch of oligarchs;
- set up the country for massive plunder by the West. Don't bother telling me it won't happen;
- the US continues to push for a war that Ukraine cannot fight or win;
- all the while, the US and other Western countries (very likely including Netherlands) continue to launder the Russian mobsters' money.

Feel free to support your thesis with sources, with facts.

[Endovelico]

If you can find comfort in the plaintive cry of "But we meant well", good for you. It doesn't work for me. I try to focus on acts, not words.

He clearly is the violator in the Ukraine case..

I disagree.

I don't see what the US/NATO/West has done wrong there.

- prepared and precipitated a coup d'etat;
- replaced a bunch of oligarchs with another bunch of oligarchs;
- set up the country for massive plunder by the West. Don't bother telling me it won't happen;
- the US continues to push for a war that Ukraine cannot fight or win;
- all the while, the US and other Western countries (very likely including Netherlands) continue to launder the Russian mobsters' money.

YMix,
Our friend Parodite is not willing to understand what you and I have been telling him. For some strange reason he decided to be totally blind in respect of US/NATO aggressive posture against Russia. We all know Putin is not anybody's ideal of a democratic leader, but the truth is that the US/NATO/EU have given him no room to be anything but what he has shown to be. And no Russian leader - no matter how democratic - could ignore the West's unfriendly posture. If we could get rid of NATO and of the US presence in Europe I believe it wouldn't be too difficult to come to an arrangement with Russia.

[Parodite]

YMix,
Our friend Parodite is not willing to understand what you and I have been telling him. For some strange reason he decided to be totally blind in respect of US/NATO aggressive posture against Russia. We all know Putin is not anybody's ideal of a democratic leader, but the truth is that the US/NATO/EU have given him no room to be anything but what he has shown to be. And no Russian leader - no matter how democratic - could ignore the West's unfriendly posture. If we could get rid of NATO and of the US presence in Europe I believe it wouldn't be too difficult to come to an arrangement with Russia.

It is endearing how you show empathy for a man known to be a criminal gang leader who has trouble letting go of his previous USSR girlfriends that once upon a time in the dark ages of communist empire served him so well as harem slaves. It surely provokes him to these girls now making their own independent decisions jumping in bed with other guys. They even dare to buy a gun and hire protection because their former "lover" tends to be a stalker sending threats when they behave "too independently" and is willing to use violence to remind them who is... err was boss. How dare they! Your sympathy and understanding is truly heart warming Endo.

[Endovelico]

YMix,
Our friend Parodite is not willing to understand what you and I have been telling him. For some strange reason he decided to be totally blind in respect of US/NATO aggressive posture against Russia. We all know Putin is not anybody's ideal of a democratic leader, but the truth is that the US/NATO/EU have given him no room to be anything but what he has shown to be. And no Russian leader - no matter how democratic - could ignore the West's unfriendly posture. If we could get rid of NATO and of the US presence in Europe I believe it wouldn't be too difficult to come to an arrangement with Russia.

It is endearing how you show empathy for a man known to be a criminal gang leader who has trouble letting go of his previous USSR girlfriends that once upon a time in the dark ages of communist empire served him so well as harem slaves. It surely provokes him to these girls now making their own independent decisions jumping in bed with other guys. They even dare to buy a gun and hire protection because their former "lover" tends to be a stalker sending threats when they behave "too independently" and is willing to use violence to remind them who is... err was boss. How dare they! Your sympathy and understanding is truly heart warming Endo.

Out of curiosity, when was it the last time (before 1990) that the Ukraine was not part of Russia/Russian Empire/USSR? Ukraine has as much right to split from Russia as Friesland has the right to split from the Netherlands. And East Ukraine has a right to split from West Ukraine... The only question is whether those peoples do want to claim their right to self-determination or not... It is pretty obvious that East Ukrainians/Novorussians want to split from the Ukraine, and they have moved in that direction before they got any assistance from Russia. It is interesting to see how you want to condition other peoples right to self-determination...

[Typhoon]

One Professional Russian Troll Tells All

Some should take notes.

[noddy]

some should sue the russians for unpaid work.

[Alexis]

One Professional Russian Troll Tells All

Some should take notes.

Just two questions, Colonel, if you don't mind

- Do you think articles on sites like Radio Free Europe should be taken with the same care as those on sites like Sputniknews, or do you think they should be believed without question?

- Do you think that "Endovelico" is the pseudo of a Russian blogger paid to post propaganda on forums, or do you think it's the pseudo of an actual Portuguese person?

[Alexis]

It is endearing how you show empathy for a man known to be a criminal gang leader who has trouble letting go of his previous USSR girlfriends that once upon a time in the dark ages of communist empire served him so well as harem slaves. It surely provokes him to these girls now making their own independent decisions jumping in bed with other guys. They even dare to buy a gun and hire protection because their former "lover" tends to be a stalker sending threats when they behave "too independently" and is willing to use violence to remind them who is... err was boss. How dare they!

Parodite, it's well understood that different persons will have different interpretations of the same set of facts, and it's all too natural. However, what you've written above is not an interpretation of facts of the Ukraine crisis, it's counter-factual.

The historical fact is that Ukraine decided to partner with Russia preferably than with the EU. Demonstrations in Kiev by those Ukrainians opposing the decision led to violent deposition of regular elected Ukrainian government, with far-rightist militias storming the Ukrainian parliament and installing a pro-Western illegal government. Which move was hailed as "democratic" victory by the West, EU countries and the US immediately recognizing the new leaders as legitimate.

Not Russia used violence against retive Ukrainian government. But the US and EU supported violence against retive Ukrainian government.

Please, by all means defend your interpretation, but do it from the facts.

[Alexis]

- Do you think articles on sites like Radio Free Europe should be taken with the same care as those on sites like Sputniknews, or do you think they should be believed without question?

Just giving my personal position on this question: in my view, propaganda is flying everywhere and from all directions about the Ukraine crisis, even more than usual. So trusting any newsource is dangerous. At the same time, discarding any newsource on principle wil deprive one of useful, potentially crucial information... because sometimes, propaganda is made from facts rather than from lies!

My choice is to read sources, then to try double-checking them on neutral sites or with direct source. And to not believe what I've not been able to double-check. Instead, list it on "various claims".


Example: pro-Russian sites have begun on March 26th reporting about specific rather outrageous declarations on Ukrainian TV by the Kiev Interior Minister Arsen Avakov. Truth? Direct lie? Smart lie, with deformation of actual declarations?

Method = check actual footage of Ukrainian TV, available on Youtube.
(subtitles only in Russian)

Result = Truth. Actual words of the Ukrainian Interior Minister were exactly as reported by Russian media. That is:

«Я вам скажу плохую вещь для себя - я и так в РФ в розыске нахожусь - а надо было тогда Донецкую обладминистрацию взорвать на корню. Пусть погибли бы… 50 террористов, у нас не было бы пяти тыс. смертей в Донецкой области. Аналогично и в Луганской СБУ, но тогда готовы ли мы были к этому?»

Which means (my translation):

I will tell you something bad for me - I am wanted in Russia - but at that time we should have bombed to pieces the Donetsk administration. At that time would have been killed.... 50 terrorists, we wouldn't have had 5,000 dead in Donetsk region. And the same at security headquarters in Lugansk, but at that time were we ready for that?

Minister Avakov was speaking of protesters in administrative buildings in Donetsk and Lugansk in April last year, following replacement of local governors by pro-Western oligarchs (Taruta) decided by the new Kiev government.


This is but an example. Sometimes, this kind of check will reveal lies from pro-Russian sites, sometimes lies from pro-Western sites. Sometimes, it cannot be applied and the information has to be put on the "dubious" list. Incidentally, the information about a pro-Kremlin troll factory in Russia is presently on that list.

[Parodite]

It is endearing how you show empathy for a man known to be a criminal gang leader who has trouble letting go of his previous USSR girlfriends that once upon a time in the dark ages of communist empire served him so well as harem slaves. It surely provokes him to these girls now making their own independent decisions jumping in bed with other guys. They even dare to buy a gun and hire protection because their former "lover" tends to be a stalker sending threats when they behave "too independently" and is willing to use violence to remind them who is... err was boss. How dare they!

Parodite, it's well understood that different persons will have different interpretations of the same set of facts, and it's all too natural. However, what you've written above is not an interpretation of facts of the Ukraine crisis, it's counter-factual.

The historical fact is that Ukraine decided to partner with Russia preferably than with the EU. Demonstrations in Kiev by those Ukrainians opposing the decision led to violent deposition of regular elected Ukrainian government, with far-rightist militias storming the Ukrainian parliament and installing a pro-Western illegal government. Which move was hailed as "democratic" victory by the West, EU countries and the US immediately recognizing the new leaders as legitimate.

You leave out information necessary to understand what happened at Maidan, factual context.

You do know that 1) Yanukovich initially wanted to sign the EU association deal.. that 2) he was a Russia linked oligarch thug millionaire, as well as his dentist son.. 3) that in a last minute he cancelled the deal with the EU just after he had a meeting with the top dogs in Moscow.. 4) that he activated new anti protest laws curtailing the right to protest.. that as a result 4) many Ukrainians of the entire spectrum protested against this thug and decision to cancel the EU association deal as well as the new law curtailing the right to demonstrate.. thay many got really pissed off..for I would say good reasons?

This with the background of Putin abhorring the idea, for understood reasons, of the Ukraine signing such a deal with the EU. What you think was discussed with Moscow, before Yanukovich cancelled the EU-deal?

Perhaps the above is already questionably factual to you. We should go step by step. What is wrong with the above?

[Parodite]

One Professional Russian Troll Tells All

Some should take notes.

(...)
- Do you think that "Endovelico" is the pseudo of a Russian blogger paid to post propaganda on forums, or do you think it's the pseudo of an actual Portuguese person?

I don't know in which American intelligence (?) agency our East Asian was given training in character assassination [ ] but he isn't very good at it... All he reveals is his inability to argue intelligently about anything but theoretical physics... His attempts at justifying the unjustifiable are simply pathetic. And he got stuck somewhere around 1950 which doesn't help...

Maybe you should worry more about the question if the interview link Typhoon provided tells the truth or not? For if it is true..you might love Putin even more, not minding these practices for as long as it serves your hatred towards the US supah powah.. all is allowed! You can only win.. for if it is untrue propaganda..you have another stick to beat the West with.

[Endovelico]

Maybe you should worry more about the question if the interview link Typhoon provided tells the truth or not?...

Radio "Free Europe"?!!!...

Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL) is a broadcasting organization that provides news, information, and analysis to countries in Eastern Europe, Central Asia, and the Middle East "where the free flow of information is either banned by government authorities or not fully developed". RFE/RL is supervised by the Broadcasting Board of Governors, an agency overseeing all U.S. federal government international broadcasting services.

They were founded as an anti-communist news source in 1949 by the National Committee for a Free Europe, as part of a large-scale Psychological Operation during the Cold War. RFE/RL received funds from the Central Intelligence Agency until 1972. During the earliest years of Radio Free Europe's existence, the CIA and the U.S. Department of State issued broad policy directives, and a system evolved where broadcast policy was determined through negotiation among the CIA, the U.S. State Department, and RFE staff.

[Endovelico]

The Western Spinners are Losing and They Know It
Patrick Armstrong opinion Thu, Nov 6

When I wrote “Those Horrible Russians are Winning the Information War” I was just amusing myself and having a laugh at the expense of Anne Applebaum. But I hadn’t realised that a whole campaign was beginning!

She was at a forum organised by Legatum; she being the Director of its Transitions Forum which deals with “countries that are striving to make the transition from authoritarianism to democracy”. Said forum, “organised by the Legatum Institute, in cooperation with the Atlantic Council and the US Department of State” worried that “Through the manipulation of facts and the integration of outright lies into mainstream narratives, the Russian government seeks to influence public opinion and shape Western politics.” One of the attendees was the US Ambassador to Ukraine (and participant in the infamous phone call setting up the coup d'état, or, as the conference participants would put it, the transition from authoritarianism to democracy in Ukraine.) Anyway, here he is is saying that, although he is fully confident he knows what’s going on in Ukraine, he hasn’t actually been to the east and that “The biggest lie Russia tells is that Ukraine is a society somehow divided”. And that he has no idea who’s paying for the conference.

So it wasn’t just Applebaum, it was a group and one of their purposes was to figure out “what can be done about it”. (Can we take a guess at their answer? Shut them down. Free speech requires that JRL, RT and other deviants be silenced. Truth has only room for One Truth). A campaign will coming to your Local News Outlet soon; watch for it. Here are the first appearances: Legatum again and something longer on “Russian Hybrid Warfare” quoting Applebaum approvingly.

The whole idea is preposterous. Has your Local News Outlet mentioned the evidence that the Malaysian airliner was shot down by a Ukrainian aircraft? How about evidence that the “Heavenly Hundred” were actually killed by “elements of the Maidan opposition, including its extremist far right wing”? Any questioning of NATO’s commercially-obtained satellite photos? Mention of atrocities by “volunteer battalions” in the east? No, of course it hasn’t. You can only read about MH17 on sites like globalresearch.ca, the Maidan killers in academic journals, NATO’s evidence is only criticised on websites, only Russian news sites report atrocities. These are easily dismissed as, in order: crazy conspiracy sites, probably not peer-reviewed, pro-Russian websites and Kremlin funded so-called news organisations. None of it is “real journalism” and therefore none of it is worthy of inclusion in your LNO.

Instead, your LNO has covered Russian submarines in Sweden, Russian air force aggressive flights (but not told you that NATO has quintupled its flights), and the monthly Russian invasion scare. And lots of Hitler-Putin comparisons. This is “real journalism”.

So what's really going on here? Certainly not that your LMO is passively re-printing Kremlin news releases or that the Kremlin’s tactics are working and could undermine European democracy. Quite the reverse. So what are these people worried about?

The answer is pretty obvious when you think about it: they realise their story is failing.

And it may well be that the impetus for this preposterous plaint are the problems the Party Line (and why not use that word redolent of Communist mind-control?) is having in Germany; in that Germany which is certainly the most important part of the European anti-Russia front. First we have satirical pieces like this one in which it’s evident that the audience knows they’re being manipulated. That’s bad enough. But the real bombshell was the revelation by Udo Ulfkotte, a veteran German reporter and editor, that “I ended up publishing articles under my own name written by agents of the CIA and other intelligence services, especially the Bundesnachrichtendienst.” The effect has been dramatic; his book Gekaufte Journalisten (Purchased Journalists) is high on the German best seller lists and the falloff in site visits to German media outlets is immediate and spectacular.

Comments by readers on stories also reveal the failure of the Party Line. I’ll take the first five surviving comments on a Telegraph piece from September “Its time to back away from the Russian wolf” to illustrate my point. 1. Russia is entering economic collapse 2. The author is paid by the Kremlin 3. if Russia had wanted to topple Kiev, it would already have done so 4. Ukraine is unstable and only NATO can stabilise it and “it is not only Putin who is empire building” 5. thanks for countering the standard line. The first two fit the Party Line; the third notices one of its fundamental contradictions; the fourth, while somewhat confusing, starts out well enough but is too even-handed and the fifth is outright scornful. Two out of five; that’s worrisome.

In short, the Party Line is not selling very well. But it’s not because yappy little dogs in the Blogosphere are bringing it down; it’s not because RT is creating millions of Putinbots. These are insignificant against the Western MSM chanting in unison.

Which brings me neatly to the real reason why the Line isn’t selling very well: from FAIR’s dissection of the Washington Post’s coverage of Putin’s Sochi speech. “The thing is, if you're going to say someone is a poisonous liar who traffics in conspiracy theories, then you should show that. That the Post doesn't seem to feel the need to do so either means the evidence isn't there, or that the burden of proof is very low when it comes to official enemies.”

The evidence either isn’t there, or the burden of proof is low. Indeed.

What’s killing the Washington-Brussels-NATO Party Line on Ukraine is not Sinister Putin mind-control but its inherent falsity. Consider some of the things they expect their audience to believe, at one and the same time.

- That the best way to prevent oligarchs from looting your country is to make one of them president and appoint others as provincial governors.

- That the only way to transcend Ukraine’s political failures is to appoint a bunch of people who have been in and out of governments for years.

- That an election that excludes the parties that got 40%+ the last time around is perfectly democratic.

- That the shoot-down of MH17 is an enormously important story until it suddenly isn’t.

- That the rebels would shoot down an aircraft flying at 10000 metres heading towards Russia in a straight line.

- That the Putin who is so determined to re-establish the Empire forgot to grab Georgia in 2008.

- That people haven’t noticed that it’s NATO that’s getting closer to Russia and not the other way around.

-That NATO gets its intelligence from tweets, twitters and blurry commercial satellite images.

- That postponing implementation of the Ukraine-EU agreement is unacceptable right up to the moment that it is postponed.

- That the fact that Ukraine owes Russia billions for gas it has consumed is evidence of Russian pressure on Ukraine.

- That Russia is always invading but never actually invades.

- That all those swastikas and neo-nazi references are just a figment of Putin’s imagination.

- That artillery shells keep falling on civilians in eastern Ukraine but nobody knows where they come from.

- That self-determination is perfectly acceptable in Kosovo but absolutely unacceptable in Ukraine.

- That Nuland and Pyatt didn’t actually plan out the new government.

- That conferences like the Legatum one are ever going to tell you anything that you can’t already guess.

- The Party Line involves just too much doublethink and memory suppression to keep going without turning the volume up ever louder and silencing dissenters. And it’s not just that they have a bad hand of cards, but they're playing them badly: surely they can do better than blurry photographs of combine harvesters.

That’s all. At some level the Legatum people know it and they are getting desperate.

And, by the way, in these days of the Internet it’s much harder to get away with it. Since I began writing this piece, I have learned that Anne Applebaum’s income has greatly increased and something about who is behind Legatum (just the people you’d guess, too).

http://russia-insider.com/ru/politics_u ... _they_know

[YMix]

- prepared and precipitated a coup d'etat: Orange Revolution, Maidan

- replaced a bunch of oligarchs with another bunch of oligarchs: Oligarchs, more oligarchs on Radio Free Europe, lol

- set up the country for massive plunder by the West. Don't bother telling me it won't happen: Socialist link, but hey... a source is a source. A wild ecologist source appears.

- the US continues to push for a war that Ukraine cannot fight or win: weapons!

- all the while, the US and other Western countries (very likely including Netherlands) continue to launder the Russian mobsters' money: so laundering, such clean, wow.

[YMix]

Radio "Free Europe"?!!!...

Yep, Radio Free Europe.

[Typhoon]

One Professional Russian Troll Tells All

Some should take notes.

Just two questions, Colonel, if you don't mind

- Do you think articles on sites like Radio Free Europe should be taken with the same care as those on sites like Sputniknews, or do you think they should be believed without question?

RFE should be taken with a grain of salt. Sputniknews should be taken with a large crystal of salt.

Here's the BBC, if you prefer:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31962644

- Do you think that "Endovelico" is the pseudo of a Russian blogger paid to post propaganda on forums, or do you think it's the pseudo of an actual Portuguese person?

The pseudonym of an actual living Portuguese person.

[Doc]

Radio "Free Europe"?!!!...

Yep, Radio Free Europe.

But that's what our East Asian considers free and reliable journalism!...

Considering the amount of links posted in these parts from Russia Today with the insistence that it is a good source for real news I suspect that some of Putin's troll post even here.

Well here is another link to the story about Putin's trolls

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 38893.html


Revealed: Putin's army of pro-Kremlin bloggers

Hundreds of workers are paid around £500 a month and required to write at least 135 comments per day - or face immediate dismissal


Paul Gallagher Author Biography

Friday 27 March 2015


They are the online army of pro-Kremlin commentators familiar to anyone who dares read below the line on web articles about Russia.

Now one former foot soldier has broken ranks to expose the Orwellian ‘troll factories’ where state-sponsored employees work 12-hour shifts posting pro-Putin propaganda on news and social media websites.

St Petersburg blogger Marat Burkhard lifted the lid on the 24/7 life in an unassuming four-storey modern building he compared to the Ministry of Truth from George Orwell’s 1984. Hundreds of workers are paid above-average salaries of around £500 a month and required to write at least 135 comments per day - or face immediate dismissal. The repressive system’s strict rules and regulations include no laughing and fines for being a minute late. Friendship is frowned upon.

Asked if he agreed it sounded like something from Orwell’s dystopian classic novel Mr Burkhard said: “Yes, that’s right, the Ministry of Truth. You work in the Ministry of Truth, which is the Ministry of Lies, and everyone kind of believes in this truth. Yes, you’re right, it’s Orwell.”


The structure is simple. Once a story has been published on a local news forum the troll army goes to work by dividing into teams of three: one plays the ‘villain’ criticising the authorities with the other two debate with him and support government officials. One of the pro-Kremlin pair needs to provide a graphic or image that fits in the context and the other posts a link to some content that supports his argument.

“You see? Villain, picture, link,” Mr Burkhard told Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. “So in this way our little threesome traverses the country, stopping at every forum, starting with Kaliningrad and ending in Vladivostok. We create the illusion of actual activity on these forums. We write something, we answer each other. There are keywords, tags, that are needed for search engines. We’re given five keywords – for example ‘defence minister’ or ‘Russian army’. All three of us have to make sure these keywords appear all over the place in our comments”.

The funniest assignment he was given involved President Barack Obama chewing gum in India and spitting it out.

“ ‘You need to write 135 comments about this, and don’t be shy about how you express yourself. Write whatever you want, just stick the word Obama in there a lot and then cover it over with profanities’.

“In the assignment, there’s always a conclusion you’ve got to make that Obama doesn’t know anything about culture. You stick him in ancient India and he chews gum there. It’s funny in the sense that they’re ready to grab onto any little thing. On the other hand, it’s not funny. It’s absurd and it crosses a line.”

There are teams dedicated to Facebook and other social media. “There are about 40 rooms with about 20 people sitting in each, and each person has their assignments. They write and write all day, and it’s no laughing matter -- you can get fired for laughing. And so every day, any news does the trick -- it could be Obama, could be [German Chancellor Angela] Merkel, could be Greece, North Korea.

“Even a political scientist can’t be an expert about the entire world, but here people are expected to write about everything. And how you write doesn’t matter; you can praise or scold. You just have put those keywords in.”

Staff are forbidden from leaving the building during their 12-hour day or night shifts which they work two days on two off. After two months Mr Burkhard had had enough.

“I decided I can’t engage in absurd work. It’s all absurd. I don’t share this ideology, I'm absolutely against it. I was located in the enemy camp. To keep on working made no sense, even for money, because it’s such hard work that -- just forget it, forget the money. Just don't make me go there anymore.”

[YMix]

Well here is another link to the story about Putin's trolls

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 38893.html

Since we're talking about propaganda.

The Independent is a British national morning newspaper published in London by Independent Print Limited, owned by Alexander Lebedev since 2010.

(Reuters) - Russian media magnate Alexander Lebedev goes on trial [...] in a case he portrays as President Vladimir Putin's revenge for criticizing the Kremlin and a warning to other rich businessmen.

Now one former foot soldier has broken ranks to expose the Orwellian ‘troll factories’ where state-sponsored employees work 12-hour shifts posting pro-Putin propaganda on news and social media websites.

Or he may be lying through his teeth.

Asked if he agreed it sounded like something from Orwell’s dystopian classic novel Mr Burkhard said: “Yes, that’s right, the Ministry of Truth. You work in the Ministry of Truth, which is the Ministry of Lies, and everyone kind of believes in this truth. Yes, you’re right, it’s Orwell.”

I'm rather surprised by this. 1984 and Animal Farm are popular in the West, but I wouldn't call them household concepts in Eastern Europe. Then again, maybe this guy likes 1984.

The structure is simple. Once a story has been published on a local news forum the troll army goes to work by dividing into teams of three: one plays the ‘villain’ criticising the authorities with the other two debate with him and support government officials. One of the pro-Kremlin pair needs to provide a graphic or image that fits in the context and the other posts a link to some content that supports his argument.

This is probably the kernel of truth. Public opinion has been a battleground for a long time.

“So in this way our little threesome traverses the country, stopping at every forum, starting with Kaliningrad and ending in Vladivostok. We create the illusion of actual activity on these forums. We write something, we answer each other.

Once again, this is surprising. I would have expected the trolls to follow the Internet's own geography and focus on places where lots of users congregate. But no. They keep in business obscure forums from Kaliningrad to Vladivostok.

[Endovelico]

Considering the amount of links posted in these parts from Russia Today with the insistence that it is a good source for real news I suspect that some of Putin's troll post even here.

I use RT and other sources for factual news, not for commentary. And I try to to find secondary sources which may support those news. Some other people here just cut and paste opinions from sources as reputable as The Economist or Radio Free Europe, as if those opinions were objective and truthful. I dare any of you to prove that the news I quote from RT or Press TV are false. I'm not saying that everything they publish is strictly true, but they have proven a lot more reliable than the Western media. But I guess you feel more comfortable with the Western lies as they help you avoiding questioning much of what is happening in the world today...

[Parodite]

More about Kremlin's trolls:

The Atlantic:
The Kremlin's Troll Army

Buzzfeed:
Documents Show How Russia’s Troll Army Hit America

The Guardian:
The readers' editor on… pro-Russia trolling below the line on Ukraine stories

Novayav Gazeta: (In Russian.. but with the chrome translate option info can be retrieved in kinda English)
Where are the trolls. And who feeds them.

[Parodite]

- prepared and precipitated a coup d'etat: Orange Revolution, Maidan

How on earth does that constitute a "coup"?

Perhaps you agree with Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault. In that case I might as well comment on that one.

- replaced a bunch of oligarchs with another bunch of oligarchs: Oligarchs, more oligarchs on Radio Free Europe

The US wanted to work with Arseniy Yatsenyuk. He doesn't come off to me as the archetypical oligarch.

But yes.. oligarchs abound in the Ukraine. Not even the US can change that in an instant, eh?

But it would make sense to first get rid of the morbid Russian extensions in the Ukraine, right? And Putin should be whipped back into his cage with the help of NATO. After that the good democratic and anti-oligarch forces in the Ukraine should be helped with money, moral and political support to get the oligarchy in the Ukraine under control by democratic process and controls etc.

Of course Western Europe is not perfect but the Ukraine becoming part of the political and cultural Western European zone gives them the best chance to achieve that. First defeat the oligarch-East.. then the oligarch-West with its corporate-banking crime syndicates and its new front-end in Europe: The EU in Brussels.

- set up the country for massive plunder by the West. Don't bother telling me it won't happen: Socialist link, but hey... a source is a source. A wild ecologist source appears.

Totally on your side there. If you only remove the thieves from the East.. then of course thieves of the West will come in a grab whatever they can get their hands on. There is work to do.

- the US continues to push for a war that Ukraine cannot fight or win: weapons!

Putin should not be allowed to make any further territorial gains in the Ukraine. So arming the Ukrainian gvt to a point where Putin will start to think twice makes total sense to me.

- all the while, the US and other Western countries (very likely including Netherlands) continue to launder the Russian mobsters' money: so laundering, such clean, wow.

Sure.. criminals are everywhere and will always be. At least here in Holland there is a reasonably well functioning system of law with independent courts, a totally free press, a very healthy democracy in general etc to keep it manageable... at elast so far. How are things moving in Romania these days? Or did you lose all hope? Sandwiched between oligarchs in the East and oligarchs in the West.. aint easy I know.

[YMix]

How on earth does that constitute a "coup"?

What do you call a movement financed by foreign interests and prepared years in advance? Then again, I should probably accept your argument. If foreign intervention does not invalidate the premises, then you should have no problem accepting the Crimean referendum and the Donetsk rebellion. So what if the Russians provided some money and guns. "Many people", to use your own vague words, wanted to be free to decide their own future.

The US wanted to work with Arseniy Yatsenyuk. He doesn't come off to me as the archetypical oligarch.

But yes.. oligarchs abound in the Ukraine. Not even the US can change that in an instant, eh?

Or ever.

But it would make sense to first get rid of the morbid Russian extensions in the Ukraine, right? And Putin should be whipped back into his cage with the help of NATO. After that the good democratic and anti-oligarch forces in the Ukraine should be helped with money, moral and political support to get the oligarchy in the Ukraine under control by democratic process and controls etc.

Or you should, stop me if you've heard this one, support the democratic and anti-oligarch forces right from the start. I know, I know, it's wild, but it kinda makes sense IF you're actually interested in democracy.

Of course Western Europe is not perfect but the Ukraine becoming part of the political and cultural Western European zone gives them the best chance to achieve that. First defeat the oligarch-East.. then the oligarch-West with its corporate-banking crime syndicates and its new front-end in Europe: The EU in Brussels.

Wake me up when that happens.

Totally on your side there. If you only remove the thieves from the East.. then of course thieves of the West will come in a grab whatever they can get their hands on. There is work to do.

Glad to see we agree on something.

Putin should not be allowed to make any further territorial gains in the Ukraine. So arming the Ukrainian gvt to a point where Putin will start to think twice makes total sense to me.

The Ukrainian army had weapons, but it didn't stop the rebels from encircling government troops a couple of times. I'm not sure where that "point" comes in.

Sure.. criminals are everywhere and will always be. At least here in Holland there is a reasonably well functioning system of law with independent courts, a totally free press, a very healthy democracy in general etc to keep it manageable... at elast so far.

Then the very healthy democracy doesn't care if the country launders dirty money from all over the world. But I'm glad to hear things are manageable.

How are things moving in Romania these days? Or did you lose all hope? Sandwiched between oligarchs in the East and oligarchs in the West.. aint easy I know.

About the same as always.

[Parodite]

How on earth does that constitute a "coup"?

What do you call a movement financed by foreign interests and prepared years in advance?

Could call it whatever I want. I general I don't mind money and support comes in from abroad, especially when those who receive it want to improve democracy, human rights, free press and weaken the position of thieves and crooks in power in a country. The abuse of the word "coup" here of course consists in the fact that usually a "coup" refers to military force used. Sending money, help organise demonstrations is a far cry from using military force.

Does funding women rights groups elsewhere, helping them to organize themselves and aim for political positions also constitute preparing a "coup"? Would the International Committee of the Fourth International mind when money and organisational help is moved from one country to another for the good cause?

Then again, I should probably accept your argument. If foreign intervention does not invalidate the premises, then you should have no problem accepting the Crimean referendum and the Donetsk rebellion. So what if the Russians provided some money and guns. "Many people", to use your own vague words, wanted to be free to decide their own future.

Silly. Russians provide money to whoever they want too; in fact they do that all the time in their oligarch post-USSR network. I am against using military force however, physical violence in general and disrespecting other nations territorial integrity. So it is very easy for me to reject the armed separatist gangs and Putin's annexation of Crimea.

[..]

Putin should not be allowed to make any further territorial gains in the Ukraine. So arming the Ukrainian gvt to a point where Putin will start to think twice makes total sense to me.

The Ukrainian army had weapons, but it didn't stop the rebels from encircling government troops a couple of times. I'm not sure where that "point" comes in.

Maybe the fact that Putin supports the separatists with soldiers, mercenaries and military equipment escaped you.

Sure.. criminals are everywhere and will always be. At least here in Holland there is a reasonably well functioning system of law with independent courts, a totally free press, a very healthy democracy in general etc to keep it manageable... at elast so far.

Then the very healthy democracy doesn't care if the country launders dirty money from all over the world. But I'm glad to hear things are manageable.

There are people in this country that care and do something about it.

How are things moving in Romania these days? Or did you lose all hope? Sandwiched between oligarchs in the East and oligarchs in the West.. aint easy I know.

About the same as always.

So the uprising and riddance of Ceausescu was all in vain?

Btw.. would you have mind if Western countries supported the uprising with money, moral support, help organise demonstrations and stuff? Or would that suddenly be honky-dory.

[Parodite]

Chris Berger: ​Is Russia descending into a fascist dictatorship?

Just over a year ago, the German finance minister compared Russia's action in the Crimea to Adolf Hitler's annexation of Czechoslovakia. The chancellor was quick to distance herself from his remarks. The question that lingers 12 months on, after Russia annexed Crimea and plunged Ukraine into war is whether the comparison was really that far-fetched? How far has President Vladimir Putin radicalized Russian society?

In a new documentary, aired by state channel Россия 1, Putin admitted that he ordered the invasion of Crimea in 2014. At the same time, a video called “Russian occupant” emerges. The video warns about the decadent west and its 'rotten democracy' and calls western values of democracy as 'alien' to Russian society. The clip finishes with the cynical remarks “I build peace, I love peace...yours dearly, the Russian occupant.” While Moscow repeatedly accuses the West of supporting a right-wing regime in Ukraine, the Kremlin has however it seems been courting some rather strange bedfellows of the far right. Last week the Kremlin invited the crème de la crème of European fascists to St. Petersburg. Russia advocates a double standard when it comes to Fascism. Apparently there are bad Nazis - the radicals of Pravyi Sektor - and there are those good Nazis - ultranationalists which support Putin's expansionism. In a country which lost more than 24 million lives to Fascism, this appears to be rather hypocritical.

So is Russia treading down a path towards becoming a fascist regime? In order to shed more light into this discussion, I want to look at some of the principles developed by Lawrence Britt. He analyzed all the major fascist regimes and found they all shared some core features

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

“The biggest nationalist in Russia; that's me.” -Vladimir Putin

Fascist states emphasize national slogans, mottos, songs, symbols and the overtly use of flags. This is accompanied by a strong chauvinistic undertone. Chauvinism is the belief of national superiority and glory - an exaggerated form of patriotism.

Russia's relationship with the rest of the world is diametrical. Society has seen a drastic rise of ultra-nationalism and chauvinism. Criticism is “demonized” as treacherous, opposition obliterated. Anti-western sentiments, thanks to a relentless propaganda campaign, are on an all time high. Russia is being portrayed as the victim. The cornered 'Bear' - surrounded by NATO countries.

The framework of which Russian nationalism operates is called “Russkij Mir”. A revisionist view of history and imperialism are key elements to how the Russkij Mir operates. The retelling of Soviet history is the first main element. There is hesitation and unwillingness to cope with the crimes of the Soviet regime. The Tsar and the Soviet Union become mythologized. This is part of Russia's glorification of its past. Atrocities turn into victories. The Holodomor in 1932, the deportation of Estonians and Tartars, the purges and the murder of millions of kulaks are all being relativized.

The last remaining Gulag - Perm 36 has now been closed, while at the same time the opening of a museum dedicated to honouring Stalin is announced. Stalin is hailed as a hero who didn't murder millions, but who won the war and modernized the country. Putin's remarks during a conference 2007 embody this distorted sense of nationalism. In the conference he said: “All states and peoples have had their ups and downs through history. We must not allow others to impose a feeling of guilt on us.” Labelling the Soviet purges as a 'downer' in history is an incredible affront to all the victims of communism.

The second principle in the Russkij Mir is imperialism. Russia's Versailles is the collapse of the Soviet Union. Russians view the collapse of the Soviet empire as a result of Western intervention rather than the failure of economic policies. Vladimir Putin himself once remarked that the “The demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.” The fact that the Soviets invaded East-Germany, Hungary and Prague and brutally crushed people's uprising is being down-played. For Russia this is part of the campaign to re-establish the glory of the olden days when the Soviet Union extended from Asia to Central-Europe. Vladimir Putin finished his New Years address with the words “Love for one’s Motherland is one of the most powerful and enlightening feelings” justifying the invasion of a sovereign country with the patriotic love of the Russian motherland.

The all time high of Russia's ultra-nationalism is alarming. Europe would be well advised not to tread the footsteps of Chamberlain's appeasement. When Adolf Hitler during the Nuremberg Reichsparteitag in 1938 announced that he would protect ethnic Germans around the world no matter what - he was talking war and he meant it.

Disdain for the recognition of Human Rights

“Russia will not soon become, if it ever becomes, a second copy of the United States or England - where liberal value have deep historic roots.” - Vladimir Putin

Fascism aims at unifying the crowd through vilifying a common enemy. In order to fight the enemy torture, intimidation, judicial arbitrariness, police brutality and human rights violations become accepted means.

Xenophobia is at an all time high in Russia. There are strong anti-immigrant resentments towards workers from the Caucasus region. According to a recent Levada Poll, 69 per cent of Russians view the presence of immigrants as too “excessive.”

Homosexuals are widely being discriminated in Russia. The situation of LGBTs (lesbians, gays, bi- and transsexuals) is horrific. Beside banning 'homosexual propaganda' the government has recently issued a law forbidding transsexuals or dual-sexes from obtaining a drivers license claiming public security would improve. There is active state sponsoring of discrimination through tolerating groups who 'actively hunt' homosexuals. Groups come together to lure men or women over social networks and then beat, publicly humiliate, urinate on and even kill them. These people actively hunt homosexuals and the Russian government is not a mere accomplice, but a sponsor of these activities through tacit consent. Life in Russia for LGBTs is a dystopian nightmare.

Officially human rights are not suspended in Russia. The legal protection by courts however is arbitrary. Due to corrupt judges, human rights can easily be suspended. This does not pertain to minorities but also regular Russian citizens. Because he wanted to flee, a Russian soldier was stripped bare naked. The European Court of Human Rights last week found Russia guilty for the use of torture. In the lead-up of the Sochi Olympic Winter games, there were reports of wide-spread forced evictions. Amnesty International reported numerous cases in which regular Russian families were forced out of their homes.

Individual rights are regularly violated in Russia. The refusal to actively engage discrimination and the toleration of certain radical groups, the state actively denying civil liberties to LGBTs and ethnic groups of the Caucasus.

Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

“They are constantly trying to drive us into a corner [...] because we tell it like it is and don’t engage in hypocrisy. But there is a limit to everything.” - Vladimir Putin

Scapegoats eliminate the need for political responsibility. Scapegoats unify the masses and create a second, virtual and far more dangerous reality of “us versus them.” If you are not with us, you are against us.

Since the annexation of Crimea, the Kremlin has pursued an aggressive and belligerent anti-western campaign. Anything West is portrayed as hostile, naturally anti-Russian, decadent, homosexual (a term employed is 'Gayrope' or Gay-Europe). International politics is simplified and reduced to a conflict between Russia and the West. Democratic countries such as Poland or the Baltic's are demeaned to 'American puppet states'. The President himself labels the West as the root of all Russia's problems. Non-governmental organisations are being targeted. Since 2012 any NGO that receives funding from outside the Russian Federation are vilified by the Ministry of Justice as 'foreign agents'.

Vladimir Putin regularly plays the 'Western Card'. Only days after the assassination of Boris Nemtsov, Kremlin friendly media (LifeNews) claimed that he was murdered because he forced his partner to have an abortion in Switzerland. A week later Alexander Zaldostanov, leader of a notoriously violent motor bike gang, held a joint press conference saying that American curators had killed him. No mention of his role as Vladimir Putin's ardent critic.

Russia's economy is in a meltdown. Rampant corruption and economic mismanagement has left the country's economy in a deep crisis. Inflation has skyrocketed to 15 percent and foreign investors have pulled out a staunching 125 billion dollars. The government is under pressure. Here again Putin blames the West in claiming that it would seek to sabotage his country. In his State of the Union he called for unity among the Russian people to withstand western aggression. Putin uses the West as a scapegoat to distract from his economic incompetence

Controlled mass media

“After all, Goebbels had said, The more improbable the lie, the faster people believe it. And it worked out; he was a talented man.” -Vladimir Putin

Direct and indirect control over the media, limited freedom of speech, state-sponsored propaganda, misinformation and misrepresentation of facts, the persecution of journalists and censorship are common in a fascist state.

In Russia the largest TV channels ORT, NTV, Russia 1 and Russia 2 are owned by the government. Around 60 percent of the media is thus directly owned by the Kremlin or indirectly controlled such as NTV, due to ownership of Gazprom.

There is growing pressure on independent media as several legislation has been passed in order to limit, sideline and intimidate journalists. Violence against journalists is not sufficiently investigated by police. Lawyers and investigators who speak publicly about human rights abuses face open threats. Reporters even face intimidation by public officials, as was the case with the deputy speaker of the Duma, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, who on live TV advocated that a female journalist should be 'violently raped'. He still remains deputy speaker.

Under Putin's presidency over 125 journalists have been murdered, while only 36 trials have been held. Among these was Anna Politkovskaya, who was shot at point-blank range inside her house. The masterminds behind her murder were never found.

Since 2000 the repressive environment for independent media has increased dramatically. The Duma has passed a bill which limits foreign ownership to a 20% stake in media outlets. Draconian laws restricting the use of social media, enacted July 2014, force internet bloggers with more than 3,000 daily readers to register with the mass media regulator Roskomnadzor and conform to its regulations.

There are numerous cases in which the countries major news outlets published photo-shopped pictures and false interviews without ever verifying the content. Stories of a boy who was crucified, German tanks travelling to Lviv or a German doctor who was paid to travel to Ukraine have all been later revealed as false. In this 'struggle for truth' Moscow has discovered the power of social media and pays 'Trolls' in order to write, post and re-post misinformation or pro-Russian comments online.

Investigative and objective news in Russia's main media landscape is non-existent. Main media discredits opposition parties as the 'fifth column', traitors or criminals. The Kremlins campaign of misinformation and misrepresentation has reached a global stage. With the global television network Russia Today, the propaganda machinery has far surpassed that of the Nazis. Directly owned by the Russian government through ownership of (ANO) TV-Novosti, the network is highly criticized as it airs crude conspiracy theories. Former RT employees report that criticism of Putin and Medvedev was completely off limits. Questioning Mr. Putin is something short of treason.

Russia therefore has in general no free press and media. There are independent and critical outlets, such as the Novaja Gazeta or the Moscow Times, however these play in the overall media landscape a very marginal role.

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

As fascist regimes are often ruled by an unchallenged leader who surrounds himself with sympathizers, these states tend to develop into a kleptocracy. Croynism, corruption, bribery and embezzlement becomes widespread.

Corruption in Russia is rampant and widespread. From the local clinic to the inner circle of the Kremlin - corruption is a vivid and integral part of the Russian economy from top to bottom. Under Vladimir Putin, corruption has skyrocketed. There are reports that the entire education system, from bottom to top is corrupt. Starting from elementary school where parents bribe teachers for 'good referrals' all the way to university. The well-known practice is called 'Blat'. Because education can be bought, the Russian parliament is (supposedly) the most academic in the world. Out of 450 delegates 143 hold a doctorate and 71 are professors. The systematics of corruption is shocking

The Politsija is so notoriously corrupt, that citizens fear their own law enforcement more than the actual criminals. Back in 2009 a video of Major Aleksej Dymowski, Novorossiysk police officer surfaced. Dymowski criticized the corruption and blamed Putin personally. When he was denied treatment for a numb arm, for not filling his arrest-quote, he uploaded the video. According to the Novaja Wremja, the Moscow Police earns an estimated 1.7 billion euros every year through bribery.

Expropriation is also common. Private property, the cornerstones of democracy, is non-existent in Russia. Anything can be seized. Illegal corporate raids are used to overtake, seize property and official stamps. There are attacks by high-level officials such as was the case with Khodorkovskiy’s oil company Yukos or Mikhail Gutseriyev, Igor Linshits, Aleksandr Lebedev - anyone who falls out of Vladimir Putin's good grace.

A few last words

At this point I would like to quote Vladimir Zhirinovsky, who made an interesting point: “There is no such thing as Russian fascism. You won't find a single Russian who considers Russians to be a superior race and who advocate expulsion of aliens.” He is right and wrong at the same time. Zhirinovsky is right when he says that Russians would never advocate Darwinian theory in order to justify the superiority of the Slavic race. His conclusion however, that hence there can be no Russian fascism is utterly wrong and a misconception as he equates fascism with nazism.

Russia is presently not a full fledged fascist state. Not yet. However it is on a good-way towards becoming one step-by-step. The extent that Vladimir Putin has transformed society is worrisome. Authoritarian government and rampant corruption coupled with inflation, economic downturn and lost-expectations is a breeding ground for radicalisation. They are symptoms of a society that has become disillusioned by democracy. Political radicalisation is a piece-meal process. Just as fascist in the Weimar Republic slowly eroded the fundaments of freedom and liberty step-by-step, are the radicals in the Kremlin now smothering the lasts gasps of democratic voices in Russia.

Chris Berger is a freelance journalist living in Germany.

[Endovelico]

European Union leaders have given the go ahead for a propaganda war with Russia

Public Relations and Communications experts are to begin working by the end of March in Brussels — the end goal is to counter the Kremlin.

The EU says Russia is deliberately distributing misinformation surrounding Moscow's aim in Ukraine and Europe.

EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini has been set the task of finalising the plan by the end of June. A statement issued following a meeting amongst the leaders "stressed the need to challenge Russia's ongoing disinformation campaigns".

The unit in Brussels set up to wage a propaganda war on Russia is to "develop an EU narrative through key messages, articles, op-eds, factsheets and infographics, including material in Russian".

The Young and the Westless: Baltic States on Edge Over Russian Soaps

European Endowment for Democracy (EED) director Jerzy Pomianowski called for "greater integration and cooperation" among Russian language media in states bordering Russia to compete with Moscow's programming.

Some EU officials say they can't compete with Russia's expensive and far reaching TV or social media channels. According to an EU official:

"Countering Russia's hard propaganda with its same weapons would not be effective and is not feasible."

Translation: As Russian media often speaks the truth, there is nothing we can do to counter it...Lying more loudly won't work...

The EU-funded European Endowment for Democracy will present the media proposals to a summit in Latvia in May.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150320/1019786606.html