Greece

noddy
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Re: Greece

Post by noddy »

parodite : the lack of accountability for the greek government /system and the bankers is also my view on this subject.

as for greece - it seems they finally have a *proper* party forming after this latte left failure.
A group of Greek lawmakers opposed to the country’s bailout program abandoned the governing party, Syriza, as Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras moved to force an early election to shore up his position.

The lawmakers, whose names were read out on Friday by a deputy parliament speaker on television from Athens, will be called “Popular Unity” and led by former Energy Minister Panagiotis Lafazanis. Twenty-five lawmakers form the new bloc, while local media reported another four parliamentarians quit Syriza without joining the breakaway.

“We won’t accept being in the euro area and having bailout programs imposed on us,” Lafazanis told reporters in Athens on Friday. If resisting the bailout means the nation exiting the euro area “this is in no way a catastrophe. It’s a path that can create hope and prospects for our country.”
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Parodite
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Re: Greece

Post by Parodite »

noddy wrote:
“We won’t accept being in the euro area and having bailout programs imposed on us,” Lafazanis told reporters in Athens on Friday. If resisting the bailout means the nation exiting the euro area “this is in no way a catastrophe. It’s a path that can create hope and prospects for our country.”
Hopefully they keep pushing it!
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Parodite
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Re: Greece

Post by Parodite »

Varoufuckits on Greece leaving the Eurozone:
[...]
Mark Taylor, University of Warwick—Would you agree that Greece does not fulfil the criteria for successful membership of a currency union with the rest of Europe? Wouldn't it be better if they left now rather than simply papering over the cracks and waiting for another Greek economic crisis to occur in a few years' time?

Varoufakis: The eurozone's design was such that even France and Italy could not thrive within it. Under the current institutional design only a currency union east of the Rhine and north of the Alps would be sustainable. Alas, it would constitute a union useless to Germany, as it would fail to protect it from constant revaluation in response to its trade surpluses.

Now, if by "criteria" you meant the Maastricht limits, it is of course clear that Greece did not fulfil them. But then again nor did Italy or Belgium. Conversely, Spain and Ireland did meet the criteria and, indeed, by 2007 the Madrid and Dublin governments were registering deficit, debt and inflation numbers that, according to the official criteria, were better than Germany's. And yet when the crisis hit, Spain and Ireland sunk into the mire. In short, the eurozone was badly designed for everyone. Not just for Greece.

So should we cut our losses and get out? To answer properly we need to grasp the difference between saying that Greece, and other countries, should not have entered the eurozone, and saying now that we should now exit. Put technically, we have a case of hysteresis: Once a nation has taken the path into the eurozone, that path disappeared after the euro's creation and any attempt to reverse along that, now non-existent, path could lead to a great fall off a tall cliff.
So despite being an economist and someone able to grasp complexities and using so many words to express himself here it is; he believes Greece would fall off a tall cliff if it left the Eurozone. We should invite him to OTNOT to drill this down.
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YMix
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Re: Greece

Post by YMix »

By all means invite him. :)
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Endovelico
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Re: Greece

Post by Endovelico »

Parodite wrote:
So should we cut our losses and get out? To answer properly we need to grasp the difference between saying that Greece, and other countries, should not have entered the eurozone, and saying now that we should now exit. Put technically, we have a case of hysteresis: Once a nation has taken the path into the eurozone, that path disappeared after the euro's creation and any attempt to reverse along that, now non-existent, path could lead to a great fall off a tall cliff.
So despite being an economist and someone able to grasp complexities and using so many words to express himself here it is; he believes Greece would fall off a tall cliff if it left the Eurozone. We should invite him to OTNOT to drill this down.
I have been saying this very same thing for some time, both here and at home in Portugal. One thing would have been not to join at all, another very different is leaving after a few years membership. Any good economist would say that, but unfortunately it seems there aren't all that many good economists...
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Greece

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

I thought Mr.V. was spending his time forming an anti-technocratic pan-euro party.
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Parodite
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Re: Greece

Post by Parodite »

I don't buy it there is no way out of the Eurozone for Greece. Of course it would need to happen via some transitional process and period. Varoufakis in fact anticipated such a situation by secretly preparing a shadow banking system with a new currency that to be accessed via smartphones. Greek banksters (and no doubt any of the other EU creditors) didn't like that; it would mean serious competition for their financial cartels.
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Typhoon
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Re: Greece

Post by Typhoon »

Not too long ago one had that the impression that everything would collapse if Greece did not agree to whatever or receive something or other.

What happened? :wink:
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Endovelico
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Re: Greece

Post by Endovelico »

Typhoon wrote:Not too long ago one had that the impression that everything would collapse if Greece did not agree to whatever or receive something or other.

What happened? :wink:
Don't insist. Nobody gives a damn what your impressions on Greece are...
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Alexis
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Re: Greece

Post by Alexis »

Typhoon wrote:Not too long ago one had that the impression that everything would collapse if Greece did not agree to whatever or receive something or other.

What happened? :wink:
Greece did. :)

The can was tossed further along the road.
noddy
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Re: Greece

Post by noddy »

whenever you get politicans/businessmen claiming 'we' will be destroyed if x happens the first thing you need to decide is what they mean by we.
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Re: Greece

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:whenever you get politicans/businessmen claiming 'we' will be destroyed if x happens the first thing you need to decide is what they mean by we.
What's not to like? :D
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Typhoon
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Re: Greece

Post by Typhoon »

May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Re: Greece

Post by Typhoon »

The results of the EU parliament election continue to ripple across the EU.

Spiked | Greece and the EU austerity trap
It is not over just yet for Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras and his leftist party, Syriza. The snap General Election he has now called is not for another month at least. But the reason for calling it – Syriza losing to the New Democracy party in this weekend’s European Parliament elections – suggests things could be over very soon. New Democracy won 33 per cent of the vote, while Syriza won just 24 per cent. If repeated in a General Election, New Democracy could even win enough seats to form a majority government. ‘Did not meet expectations’, was Tsipras’s downcast but succinct verdict on his party’s performance.
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Re: Greece

Post by Simple Minded »

Interesting article. thanks for posting. I suspect this aspect of politics is universal:

" Varoufakis’s book provides an honest account of how our world is governed. It will be plausible to anyone who has tried to make sense of political life without falling victim to the charm of political power.

What Varoufakis describes is the politics of disorganized irresponsibility. One sideshow follows another. A parade of drifting busybodies and stuffed shirts makes senseless decisions, or no decisions at all. "

When it comes to "we," few, if any, can leave "me" out of the equation.
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Doc
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Re: Greece

Post by Doc »

Seems like it is time for Turkey to end the illegal occupation of Constantinople. It has been 500 years of Turkish colonialism and ethnic cleansing. It need to end.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Greece

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:34 am Seems like it is time for Turkey to end the illegal occupation of Constantinople. It has been 500 years of Turkish colonialism and ethnic cleansing. It need to end.

Yes

but

"Asia Minor" was Persian and Greek playground .. and within Persian cultural hemisphere, now more than before. :lol:

Don't hold your breath
.
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Doc
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Re: Greece

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:33 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:34 am Seems like it is time for Turkey to end the illegal occupation of Constantinople. It has been 500 years of Turkish colonialism and ethnic cleansing. It need to end.

Yes

but

"Asia Minor" was Persian and Greek playground .. and within Persian cultural hemisphere, now more than before. :lol:

Don't hold your breath
.
Persia tried to occupy Greece as well. Something about 300. Persia got its ass kicked.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Greece

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Doc wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 9:19 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:33 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:34 am Seems like it is time for Turkey to end the illegal occupation of Constantinople. It has been 500 years of Turkish colonialism and ethnic cleansing. It need to end.

Yes

but

"Asia Minor" was Persian and Greek playground .. and within Persian cultural hemisphere, now more than before. :lol:

Don't hold your breath
.

Persia tried to occupy Greece as well. Something about 300. Persia got its ass kicked.


True , Can't (always) win them all

But

Now the Pendulum is swinging the other way

.
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Doc
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Re: Greece

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:53 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 9:19 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:33 pm
Doc wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:34 am Seems like it is time for Turkey to end the illegal occupation of Constantinople. It has been 500 years of Turkish colonialism and ethnic cleansing. It need to end.

Yes

but

"Asia Minor" was Persian and Greek playground .. and within Persian cultural hemisphere, now more than before. :lol:

Don't hold your breath
.

Persia tried to occupy Greece as well. Something about 300. Persia got its ass kicked.


True , Can't (always) win them all

But

Now the Pendulum is swinging the other way

.
Seems like last time I check Ergodan was getting pretty desperate WRT his popularity in Turkey.

Anyway from Greece from the Bosporus to the Black sea.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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