Greece

[Parodite]

In most European countries, failure of radical left would rather benefit right-wing populists the likes of France's Front National, Britain's UKIP or Italy's Lega Nord. Or creative postmodern political endeavours the likes of Beppe Grillo's Cinque Stelle.

I don't consider UKIP right-wing populist at all. They have a libertarian, free market, no-EU agenda.

[Alexis]

In most European countries, failure of radical left would rather benefit right-wing populists the likes of France's Front National, Britain's UKIP or Italy's Lega Nord. Or creative postmodern political endeavours the likes of Beppe Grillo's Cinque Stelle.

I don't consider UKIP right-wing populist at all. They have a libertarian, free market, no-EU agenda.

"Populism" is not a well-defined category.

These parties are at the same time right-wing (from quite different stripes, to be sure) and anti-EU. These days, being anti-EU makes one a populist.

I probably should have written "right-wing Euroskeptics" for precision.

[Parodite]

In most European countries, failure of radical left would rather benefit right-wing populists the likes of France's Front National, Britain's UKIP or Italy's Lega Nord. Or creative postmodern political endeavours the likes of Beppe Grillo's Cinque Stelle.

I don't consider UKIP right-wing populist at all. They have a libertarian, free market, no-EU agenda.

"Populism" is not a well-defined category.

These parties are at the same time right-wing (from quite different stripes, to be sure) and anti-EU. These days, being anti-EU makes one a populist.

I probably should have written "right-wing Euroskeptics" for precision.

UKIP is blatantly anti-EU.. not just sceptic. As for the rest of their politics.. I'm not too well informed. I associate them with centrist, free market liberalism (liberalism in the European sense which for the US reader would be libertarian). I haven't looked at their social agenda though.. so maybe they are less centrist than I thought.

The stigma of populist of UKIP also is the result of Farage's style methinks. He loved put up a show with confrontational rhetorics and some stand-up comedy to make his points in the EU parliament.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.


Instead of going into economy
the bailout money has allowed Greek and foreign investors get their money out

.

FRANKFURT — The Greek businessman was nervous as he carried a suitcase stuffed with cash through passport control at the Athens airport a few months ago. But the distracted and overworked customs officials waved him through.

A few hours later the man touched down in Frankfurt, where he quickly deposited the money in a German bank.

The stash was part of 40 billion euros, or about $44 billion, that businesses and individuals have withdrawn from Greek banks since December, exacerbating the country’s financial woes.

.

.

[Simple Minded]

.


Instead of going into economy
the bailout money has allowed Greek and foreign investors get their money out

.

FRANKFURT — The Greek businessman was nervous as he carried a suitcase stuffed with cash through passport control at the Athens airport a few months ago. But the distracted and overworked customs officials waved him through.

A few hours later the man touched down in Frankfurt, where he quickly deposited the money in a German bank.

The stash was part of 40 billion euros, or about $44 billion, that businesses and individuals have withdrawn from Greek banks since December, exacerbating the country’s financial woes.

.

.

Fred is voting with his wallet....... evidently, the perception problem is not just non-Greeks looking at Greece.

[Endovelico]

Media Terrorism in Greece Must Be Stopped
11:42 04.08.2015(updated 12:32 04.08.2015)

ATHENS (Sputnik) – Speaking of the situation in the week running up to the July 5 referendum on the country's bailout proposals, Kretsos noted that some channels reported that seven people out of 10 intended to vote "yes" at the referendum on the Greek lenders' proposals while only one had decided to vote "no."

"I think it is media terrorism… For 25 years private [TV] channels have been doing what they like. They can and do buy politicians, they can and do provide loans, they can and do control information. There is no diversity of opinions, pluralism of information," Kretsos told RIA Novosti.

"Such practice must be stopped and rules on transparency and freedom of the press need to be put in place," Kretsos said.

He added that it was the Greek government's duty to regulate the country's mass media.

In July, media reports suggested that a court in Athens would hear a case to determine whether certain Greek media outlets violated election law while covering the referendum and preceding events in the country.

An investigation was opened into the media coverage of the referendum, with the prosecution examining whether certain media outlets attempted to ‘cheat’ voters by influencing them, which is prohibited by the Greek Penal Code.

In the nationwide referendum, some 61 percent of Greeks cast their ballot against the reforms demanded by the country's international creditors in exchange for the next bailout package expected to assist the heavily indebted country.

The Greek government aims to impose order on the country's media and make their operations more transparent, Kretsos said Tuesday.

The Greek government has proposed a bill, requiring Greek television channels, that have been working for up to 25 years on temporary permits, to comply with obligatory licensing procedures. They will have to participate in tenders for frequencies, reveal all their owners, comply with labor laws as well as paying taxes and contributions to social insurance funds.

"What's important here is that this is the first time that media and television channels [in Greece] will be brought to order," Kretsos told RIA Novosti.

The official added that current practices "allow corruption" and enable "the old political class" to control the media, censoring news in order to conceal political and economic scandals in the country.

"Only license holders will be able to broadcast. We will hold an international tender and grant licenses according to its results," Kretsos said.

He added that a vote on the draft laws to increase transparency in the Greek media would be held no earlier than September.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150804/1025374628.html

This is one of the ways the oligarchy highjacks democracy. Freedom is meant the freedom of the rich to brainwash the rest of the people. Time to put a stop to this form of terrorism. Good for the Greeks!...

[noddy]

sounds like desperate lies of a failed government to me.

old school media and tv are nearly dead, taking control of those to push the government agenda is probably useless - in my country newspapers and free tv are vanity projects now, barely sustained by the boomer generations.

[Parodite]

Greek gvts always been rife with corruption and contrarian phraseology politics. More likely this political culture will breed more oligarchs than less. The money the Greek people and their economy desperately need to grow business bottom up is already wasted on corrupt bailed out banks and political processes that don't produce anything.

[Heracleum Persicum]

lazy-Greek.jpg (36.73 KiB) Viewed 2046 times

The True Cause Of Greece’s Economic Failure
Omnivorous State,
Not Lazy Workers


.

[Heracleum Persicum]

Greece GDP up.jpg (121.71 KiB) Viewed 2032 times

[YMix]

Greece's Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has announced he is resigning and has called an early election.

Mr Tsipras had faced a rebellion within his ruling hard-left Syriza party over a new bailout deal which has been agreed with international creditors.

Greece received the first €13bn ($14.5bn) tranche on Thursday, allowing it to repay a debt to the European Central Bank and avoid a messy default.

But the austerity measures needed for the deal angered many in his party.

Mr Tsipras had to agree to further painful state sector cuts, including far-reaching pension reforms, in exchange for the bailout - and keeping Greece in the eurozone.

The overall bailout package is worth about €86bn over three years. The payment of the first tranche was made on Thursday after the bailout deal - Greece's third in five years - was approved by relevant European parliaments.
Lost majority

Alexis Tsipras made the announcement in a televised state address on Thursday.

He said that with the first tranche of the bailout arriving, he now had the moral duty to ask the Greek people to deliver their judgment.

He said he would seek the vote of the Greek people to continue his government's programme.

[Endovelico]

Greece's Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has announced he is resigning and has called an early election.

Mr Tsipras had faced a rebellion within his ruling hard-left Syriza party over a new bailout deal which has been agreed with international creditors.

Greece received the first €13bn ($14.5bn) tranche on Thursday, allowing it to repay a debt to the European Central Bank and avoid a messy default.

But the austerity measures needed for the deal angered many in his party.

Mr Tsipras had to agree to further painful state sector cuts, including far-reaching pension reforms, in exchange for the bailout - and keeping Greece in the eurozone.

The overall bailout package is worth about €86bn over three years. The payment of the first tranche was made on Thursday after the bailout deal - Greece's third in five years - was approved by relevant European parliaments.
Lost majority

Alexis Tsipras made the announcement in a televised state address on Thursday.

He said that with the first tranche of the bailout arriving, he now had the moral duty to ask the Greek people to deliver their judgment.

He said he would seek the vote of the Greek people to continue his government's programme.

The election will make it clearer whether left leaning people in Greece prefer Tsipras' approach or the more radical one. If people agree that Tsipras did the best that could be done under the circumstances, he will be returned to power with an increased majority. And the radicals will be free to vent their frustrations outside Parliament...

[Nonc Hilaire]

Clearly, Syriza politicians were threatened. Nothing else could account for their sudden change in behavior. The referendum demonstrates that the next administration will be off the chain.

[Endovelico]

Clearly, Syriza politicians were threatened. Nothing else could account for their sudden change in behavior. The referendum demonstrates that the next administration will be off the chain.

Not all leftists are stupid. Some can recognize what is possible to achieve and what isn't. Syriza politicians recognized how far they could push their adversaries and stopped just short of disaster. But you may be sure that when things get better and Greece can avoid being again blackmailed, Syriza politicians will fight for and get what they want.

[noddy]

Not all leftists are stupid.

do you have a peer reviewed and replicated series of studies to quantify that assertation ?

[Endovelico]

Not all leftists are stupid.

do you have a peer reviewed and replicated series of studies to quantify that assertation ?

Just a question of probabilities...All leftists being stupid is a probabilistic impossibility...

[Parodite]

80% of the money that goes to Greece is used to bail out other creditors of Greece, and the "I give you more money so that you can pay me back what you owe me" joke.

The Dutch gvt just accorded another 5 billion Euros to go the Greece. Which means another 1500,- my family payed supposedly to keep Greece on life support - which is a lie. Most of that goes to banks that we are bailing out. That life support is for banks that just should have gone bankrupt already. Only 300,- goes into Greece itself, what can be used to invest in the economy there. But I think even that estimate is way too positive.

The terrible Northern tax payer is bailing out Northern and Southern banks.. that's what is happening.

And the Greek are not even aware of it. I don't want to bail out banks, I want banks who mismanaged all that money go bust and and their managers in court on trial together with their collaborating politicians . Like they did in Iceland. There they solved this whole thing. The Greek don't even take notice. Too busy hating Merkel et-al. No eye for the criminal activities of their own corrupt politicians in the past.

Endo.. do you understand any of this. I'm personally screwed and robbed by the same people who rob Greek civilians. I don't mind sending 1500,- Euros of my savings to Greek businesses - even free of interest and to be payed back later..decades later.. if at all. I don't care. But people are taking my money without my permission and give it to bankster kingpins whose job it is to keep everybody on debt-dope.

The European bankster oligarchies love the Greek because they provide the perfect cover and distraction for what is actually happening. But they hated Icelanders..who caught the crooks red handed, exposed them fully and threw them in jail or under house arrest and took back control of their own money.

[Endovelico]

Endo.. do you understand any of this. I'm personally screwed and robbed by the same people who rob Greek civilians. I don't mind sending 1500,- Euros of my savings to Greek businesses - even free of interest and to be payed back later..decades later.. if at all. I don't care. But people are taking my money without my permission and give it to bankster kingpins whose job it is to keep everybody on debt-dope.

The European bankster oligarchies love the Greek because they provide the perfect cover and distraction for what is actually happening. But they hated Icelanders..who caught the crooks red handed, exposed them fully and threw them in jail or under house arrest and took back control of their own money.

You, and everybody else in Europe, have your fate in your own hands. Just vote for people who think like you and the problem will be solved... That's why I hope the National Front in France comes to power. As much as I dislike their policies and their frame of mind, they may be the jolt we all need to change things in Europe.

[Parodite]

You, and everybody else in Europe, have your fate in your own hands. Just vote for people who think like you and the problem will be solved... That's why I hope the National Front in France comes to power. As much as I dislike their policies and their frame of mind, they may be the jolt we all need to change things in Europe.

I'm afraid I have nobody to vote for here. But should check again.

To slay the dragon, it is an international one, you need to find its Achilles heel. I pretend to have found it.. but did not encounter any party that agrees or made it their top priority.

This Achilles heel was once exposed/admitted by the CEO of Goldman-Sachs Lloyd Blankfein during an obscure interview that got no attention whatsoever from the regular press.

[Simple Minded]

...... That's why I hope the National Front in France comes to power. As much as I dislike their policies and their frame of mind, they may be the jolt we all need to change things in Europe.

an interesting phrase that has "Be careful what you wish for!" written all over it.

Substitute Nazi for National Front, and Germany for France, and it sounds like something more than a few Germans may have said in the 1930's.

I suspect the Endo's phrase is an interesting indicator of zeitgeist in both the US & Europe, to an extant that most are unaware. To the disgruntled, unspecified change is always better. If you ain't proselytizing about the virtues of change, you can't be the new kid on the block.

going back to the greatest philosophical exchange of all time at OTNOT:

"What's not to like?"
"Someone else's definition of change!"

[Alexis]

Just vote for people who think like you and the problem will be solved... That's why I hope the National Front in France comes to power. As much as I dislike their policies and their frame of mind, they may be the jolt we all need to change things in Europe.

Now I've witnessed something I want to tell my grandchildren in my old age...

A guy with the Anarchist A as avatar who wishes for FN victory in France! Wow!

Not that I wouldn't understand what you're saying. If the aim is to smash the antidemocratic EU superstructure, the FN would seem as a good tool to that aim: that's exactly what Marine Le Pen wants, and France (by contrast e.g. to Greece) is large enough to do the job on her own. Nietzsche wanted to do philosophy with a hammer, the leader of the FN wants to do European policy that way ...



However, we may be speaking of the main Euroskeptic party in France, we're still speaking of a rightist party ("national right" as they self-define). Simple Minded's comparison to Nazis is so far off the mark as to be comical, but I still suspect you wouldn't like all of their proposed policies.

an interesting phrase that has "Be careful what you wish for!" written all over it.

Substitute Nazi for National Front, and Germany for France, and it sounds like something more than a few Germans may have said in the 1930's.

A lot of comparisons can be drawn that way.

For example, between election of Obama to US presidency and risk to elect Ben Laden. You see, BHO does have Hussein as a middle name...

Also, between election of Tsipras in Greece and risk to elect a leader of the undead. Haven't you remarked his strange fixed smile? Didn't you hear the rumors about the stink emanating from him and dogs barking in panic when they cross his way?
(probably not, since I'm starting that rumor right now, however I ask just in case)

(... plenty of good sense...)
The terrible Northern tax payer is bailing out Northern and Southern banks.. that's what is happening.
(... more good sense, I don't copy it only because I HATE when post length grows out of control because of successive quoting in toto...)

Hear! Hear!
Somebody hit the mark!

To slay the dragon, it is an international one, you need to find its Achilles heel. I pretend to have found it.. but did not encounter any party that agrees or made it their top priority.

This Achilles heel was once exposed/admitted by the CEO of Goldman-Sachs Lloyd Blankfein during an obscure interview that got no attention whatsoever from the regular press.

Pleaaaase... tell us more... we're dying to know
(that is, unless we're already dead, like Mr Tsipras)

[YMix]

And the Greek are not even aware of it. I don't want to bail out banks, I want banks who mismanaged all that money go bust and and their managers in court on trial together with their collaborating politicians . Like they did in Iceland. There they solved this whole thing. The Greek don't even take notice. Too busy hating Merkel et-al. No eye for the criminal activities of their own corrupt politicians in the past.

This is my biggest problem with Greece right now. Are they even investigating corruption at the top? When are they going to do some house cleaning?

I'm afraid I have nobody to vote for here.

Tell me about it.

[Parodite]

The terrible Northern tax payer is bailing out Northern and Southern banks.. that's what is happening.

Hear! Hear!
Somebody hit the mark!

To slay the dragon, it is an international one, you need to find its Achilles heel. I pretend to have found it.. but did not encounter any party that agrees or made it their top priority.

This Achilles heel was once exposed/admitted by the CEO of Goldman-Sachs Lloyd Blankfein during an obscure interview that got no attention whatsoever from the regular press.

Pleaaaase... tell us more... we're dying to know
(that is, unless we're already dead, like Mr Tsipras)

Banksters who now shove around billions of $ of others, are not privately exposed to the same risk they expose those billions to. On the contrary. This works as an incentive to take risks with other people's money they would never take if it were their own.

Couldn't dig up the interview, where Blankfein was asked about this.

"Mr. Blankfein, al considered, wouldn't it be better if people like you would have their own private worth be exposed to those same risks?"

Blankfein, kinda smiling looking sideways: "That of course will never happen. I know what those risks are."

Economist Stiglitz attested to same. He remarked somewhere that as long banksters are privately disconnected and not exposed to the risks they create.. the financial industry will never be cured.

So this is really simple human basics IMHO. It should be international law that if your bank looses big time.. so should the bankster himself privately. The incentives are now working in the opposite direction.

[Typhoon]

The terrible Northern tax payer is bailing out Northern and Southern banks.. that's what is happening.

Hear! Hear!
Somebody hit the mark!

To slay the dragon, it is an international one, you need to find its Achilles heel. I pretend to have found it.. but did not encounter any party that agrees or made it their top priority.

This Achilles heel was once exposed/admitted by the CEO of Goldman-Sachs Lloyd Blankfein during an obscure interview that got no attention whatsoever from the regular press.

Pleaaaase... tell us more... we're dying to know
(that is, unless we're already dead, like Mr Tsipras)

Banksters who now shove around billions of $ of others, are not privately exposed to the same risk they expose those billions to. On the contrary. This works as an incentive to take risks with other people's money they would never take if it were their own.

Couldn't dig up the interview, where Blankfein was asked about this.

"Mr. Blankfein, al considered, wouldn't it be better if people like you would have their own private worth be exposed to those same risks?"

Blankfein, kinda smiling looking sideways: "That of course will never happen. I know what those risks are."

Economist Stiglitz attested to same. He remarked somewhere that as long banksters are privately disconnected and not exposed to the risks they create.. the financial industry will never be cured.

So this is really simple human basics IMHO. It should be international law that if your bank looses big time.. so should the bankster himself privately. The incentives are now working in the opposite direction.

Investment houses used to be private companies with the partners required to have their own capital invested.

At some point they became public and the disconnect between action and personal responsibility - accountability was complete.

[Parodite]

So this is really simple human basics IMHO. It should be international law that if your bank looses big time.. so should the bankster himself privately. The incentives are now working in the opposite direction.

Investment houses used to be private companies with the partners required to have their own capital invested.

At some point they became public and the disconnect between action and personal responsibility - accountability was complete.

Indeed. It is pervasive. Not too long ago you could get a mortgage here without the need to put any private money. Now you have to put in 10% I believe. Sensible.

In Europe they now try to force banks to have their own funds to take losses. It is a good start. However I think all these common sense goodies that come with responsible banking don't need to be forced top-down once banksters have their own private worth also exposed to the risks they take; they will push for those things voluntarily. They might even want to consider to repeal the repeal of Glass-Steagall or demand a modern version of it that offers same protection.